BajaNomad

Plastic bags?

Russ - 8-20-2009 at 06:42 AM

What do you Think?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/08/19/mexico.plastic....

monoloco - 8-20-2009 at 06:52 AM

It's a good idea, those things are a scourge.

dianaji - 8-20-2009 at 06:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
What do you Think?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/08/19/mexico.plastic....


i think it's one of the best ideas i have heard of in a long time. it's fun to go to the farmer's market with a basket on your arm and fill it with vegetables/fruits. i love telling the vendors "no thanks, i'll just put them in my basket".

diana

baitcast - 8-20-2009 at 07:34 AM

Hate those things with a passion,the sooner the WORLD gets rid of them the better,and what an eye-sore!!
Rob

BMG - 8-20-2009 at 07:53 AM

While there is no doubt in my mind about plastic bags being a huge source of litter and an eyesore, I am always turned off when reading an article that cites false information when trying to bolster it's argument.

Quote:

In recent years, polyethylene bags, usually made from petroleum or natural gas, have largely displaced the more cumbersome paper sack as a means of carrying items from the store to the home or office. But their ubiquitous presence has drawn the ire of environmental activists and politicians who claim the bags inflict significant harm on the environment, including causing the death of 100,000 mammals and one million seabirds annually.

The plastic bag scare, it turns out, is based on a 1987 Canadian study that investigated the harm to marine mammals and seabirds from discarded fish nets. For reasons not fully understood, Australian researchers, in a follow-up study conducted 15 years later, mistakenly attributed the death of 100,000 marine animals to plastic bags instead of the "plastic litter" cited in the Canadian research.

"Plastic bags do not figure in entanglement. The main culprits are fishing gear, ropes, lines, and strapping bands," David W. Laist, an analyst with the U.S. Marine Mammal Commission, told the March 8 Times of London.

"Most mammals are too big to get caught up in a plastic bag," Laist continued. "The impact of bags on whales, dolphins, porpoises, and seals ranges from nil for most species to very minor for a few species. For birds, plastic bags are not a problem either."

We've sold re-usable bags through our website for over a decade now and you can buy cloth bags in just about every grocery store in the U.S. Most people do not use them because paper and plastic bags are easier.

The argument of paper versus plastic is also problematic.

Quote:

Angela Logomasini, director of risk studies at the Washington-based Competitive Enterprise Institute, says such rhetoric is far off the mark.

"In our energy-conscious age, the attack on plastic bags is perplexing," Logomasini said. "Plastic bags have beat out paper bags in the marketplace because they are not only easier to carry and easier to store and transport, but also because they have important environmental benefits that also make them less expensive."

"For example," Logomasini noted, "studies have shown that plastic bags require 40 percent less energy to make than paper bags, and they produce only 4 percent of the waste that paper produces. And if you are worried about carbon emissions, plastic bags produce 60 percent less 'greenhouse gases.'"


[Edited on 8-21-2009 by BMG]

mulegemichael - 8-20-2009 at 08:25 AM

There is no justification for plastic bags...none...how many do you see stuck high in a cardon cactus or flapping in the wind along a barb wire fence...there ARE other alternatives..plastic has got to go!

oldjack - 8-20-2009 at 08:38 AM

anytime plastic bags are mentioned/seen I am reminded of that long stretch of highway by Catavina where ALL the brush is covered by plastic bags... I should have taken a picture... next trip in two weeks I will then...

MEXICAN Plastic Bags

MrBillM - 8-20-2009 at 09:44 AM

Maybe it's a result of differences in Atmospheric Pressure at different Latitudes or some other esoteric scientific phenomenon, but the widespread proliferation of Plastic Bags on the landscape seems most probematic South of the U.S. border.

It's rather amazing that the Wind currents and other natural patterns have an awareness and are affected by civil determinations.

Another of those FM Factors ?

Crusoe - 8-20-2009 at 09:50 AM

Here in King Co., ( Seattle Wa.) an inniative to completely get rid plastic bags was voted out 2 days ago. The plastic bag manafactures pumped millions of $ in local advertising to brainwash the public that they are ok.... 95% of the advertising was pro bags and 5% was against. The environmentalist, liberals didn't stand a chance. And this city is supposed to be the largest "ECO FRIENDLY" stronghold in the nation?? Go figure.... To bad. ++C++

woody with a view - 8-20-2009 at 10:06 AM

but what would dog walkers use to scoop their pooches poop with?:?:

edit: oh wait, we're talking baja now....

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by woody in ob]

Pompano - 8-20-2009 at 10:17 AM

On the positive side....ahem...Enough of them blowing around Baja always looks festive, like snow at Christmas Up North. :rolleyes:

oldlady - 8-20-2009 at 10:20 AM

Hmmm. BMG's post says that overall they are better for the enviornment.
I like them because they are much easier to carry and I reuse them for all sorts of things. So, there seems to be an issues with these puppies "running away". When I was a kid I can remember paper bags running away a lot too. Spme pf us learned to pick them up.

Hook - 8-20-2009 at 10:49 AM

So, what would I line by bathroom and kitchen trash cans with? For that matter, what replaces my Hefty bags in the outside trash?

Would I be relegated to washing out my trash cans each time? :O

I thought there was some biodegradable option that was similar to plastic.

DianaT - 8-20-2009 at 11:06 AM

We reuse plastic bags for lots of things, but I would still LOVE to see them gone.
But then again, I would also like to see disposable diapers banned from the world and I know there are arguments that support those horrible things that are also far too often decorating the landscape.

Heather - 8-20-2009 at 11:11 AM

Plastics which we are using now, are not biodegradable. Plastics can get broken down, but just into smaller pieces or the components that make them. Besides in the Baja cactus, many find there way to the open ocean.

I've been following a research vessel from Scripps La Jolla, that has been studying plastics in the North Pacific Gyre...North Pacific Garbage Patch. They are returning from their research voyage, but in every sample of the water, they pulled up pieces of plastic. Some large; some measured in millimeters; and some going to depths of 700+ feet.

I'm glad some communities are taking measures to reduce the distribution of plastic. Much more needs to be done.

The scientists on this research voyage, don't sound very optimistic about ways to get the plastics out of our oceans, but we can always hope and keep doing the science!

Check out the website for pictures and follow the blog:

www.seaplexscience.com

BMG - 8-20-2009 at 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook

I thought there was some biodegradable option that was similar to plastic.
They do make biodegradable bags, just more money.

bags

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by BMG]

Bwana_John - 8-20-2009 at 03:32 PM

I always look at plastic shopping bags and toilet paper in Baja as kinda "Mexican version of Tibetan prayer flags";D

Bajahowodd - 8-20-2009 at 03:56 PM

Hmmmm.

David K - 8-20-2009 at 04:05 PM

Perhaps if people would not throw them out into the countryside and instead burn them (like all trash was treated before)... then the talk of banning a popular and useful item wouldn't be happening...?

Can't people become responsible and stop throwing things into the desert for someone else to deal with or look at?

Why is it ?

MrBillM - 8-20-2009 at 04:17 PM

That the Plastic grocery bags I save and store in the garage for future use end up disintegrating after awhile in the heat, BUT the ones Permanently out in the sun littering the Mexican countryside seem to last forever ?

Since so many people seem determined to see them gone, I guess that I'll have to start stocking up on the commercial trash bags in various sizes along with the incandescent light bulbs I'm stockpiling. What next ?

The last two trips to Walmart, I've bought more light bulbs (premium 4 for $1.66) and my wife said "Don't we have ENOUGH of these" ? My answer was "Do we EVER have enough" ?

Oh, speaking of what's next, SUGAR ! Now I find out there's going to be a shortage of THAT. Just bought two extra 5-pound bags and Rubbermaids to store them in.

NOW, I have to start on Trash Bags.

Manana.

chuckbolton - 8-20-2009 at 05:21 PM

today its plastic grocery bags-- 20 yrs ago it seemed to be disposable diapers-- people we notorious for throwing them out of car windows and they were laying all over-- niether one a postive effect on the landscape

Mike99km - 8-20-2009 at 05:22 PM

The bag blowing in the wind hanging from a cactus is the flag of all Baja. Seen them blowing from one end to the other. The issue is more than just plastic bags. America would be the same if Ladybird Johnson hadn't started the beautification America back in the 60's. Read Steinbeck's Travel with Charlie he talk about the trash as he gets closer to towns.This is much to big to solve on a web sight.
Take care of it yourself and try to correct those around you as best you can. The world is changed little bits at a time by people who care.

dianaji - 8-20-2009 at 05:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike99km
The bag blowing in the wind hanging from a cactus is the flag of all Baja. Seen them blowing from one end to the other. The issue is more than just plastic bags. America would be the same if Ladybird Johnson hadn't started the beautification America back in the 60's. Read Steinbeck's Travel with Charlie he talk about the trash as he gets closer to towns.This is much to big to solve on a web sight.
Take care of it yourself and try to correct those around you as best you can. The world is changed little bits at a time by people who care.


Beautifully said! One thing we can each do is "Be the change we want in the world" - gandhi

Being and Changing

MrBillM - 8-20-2009 at 09:04 PM

Indeed, that is a goal worth striving for but, unfortunately, those nagging Criminal codes prevent us from doing a lot of the changing we'd like.

Including at least one use for a plastic bag I can think of.

GeoRock - 8-26-2009 at 09:15 PM

I say go to the heart of the matter. Help convince the Mexican government to educate their public to not litter. It worked in the United States, it could work in Mexico.

wilderone - 8-27-2009 at 08:23 AM

Once all the Mexicans learn to stow it, not throw it, there needs to be an adequate, properly managed waste site to bring all the collected trash. What good does it do to collect trash and then dump it in an open field just to let it blow around and stink and pollute. The entire system needs to be created - education, collection, disposal, recycling. The plastic bag issue is at least an acknowledgment of the problem.

oldjack - 8-27-2009 at 08:38 AM

I recall that a few years ago(5-8?).. that some smart guy came up with a "plastic" bag made from, I think, potatoe's starch or some veggie extract... our local market actually used them and then said they were too expensive... I think they were something like twice the cost... seems like a bargin now.... In Los Barriles I placed a 55 gal drum at the end of the street by the beach for BASURA and paid the trash collectors 50p to empty it on a weekly basis... guess what someone stole the trash container.... trash just isn't important to the Mexicans... I know I get dirty looks/comments when I offer trash bags to the ones camping out on the local beach.... maybe I need to move away from people???????????????

jls - 8-27-2009 at 09:00 AM

There was life before plastic.... Here they are phasing them out of all the stores. Most now have eco friendly bags or you pay for the old plastic ones. It is working. I predict in a couple of years they will be gone just like plastic water bottles will be. Almost all plastic here is recycled and all consumable drink containers have a deposit. It is not that hard to figure out how to get it under control.

805gregg - 8-29-2009 at 06:56 PM

It's not plastic bags we have to worry about . It's overpopulation. Plastic bags are a hiccup compared with a population that exceeds the available food and water resources. The pope needs to allow birth control.

Plastic IS the Solution

MrBillM - 8-29-2009 at 07:23 PM

At least if you listen to the Eco-Wackos.

They wildly claim that all sorts of hazardous chemical dangers are caused by plastic containers. If correct, their widespread use will lead to Millions of Birth-Defects and Deaths.

Helping to solve the population problem.

dianaji - 9-3-2009 at 11:10 AM

here is a great link on use of plastic bags. i love this site as there are many things to make. i u join this group, u may find it very interesting, especially if u are ecology minded and love projects:

http://www.instructables.com/id/S5O44NEFXHJXOM0/

don't be surprised if u see this posted on another great forum, cause i want the whole world to know!

noproblemo2 - 9-3-2009 at 01:51 PM

Being on a septic system as many are here in Baja, they are very useful lining my bathroom trash cans, as we don'y put paper in the septic systems...:biggrin:

One Thing At a Time

Bajahowodd - 9-3-2009 at 02:00 PM

So, as you travel down Highway 1, you see that SCT has placed trash cans along the way. I've always been amazed at how many of those cans have been dumped onto the ground by scavengers looking for recyclables, and thereby allowing any loose debris such as plastic bags, to blow in the wind.

Osprey - 9-3-2009 at 05:46 PM

Diana, what do you want the world to know? What is the other forum? What I've learned about you so far is your needs. There must be more. Is it for this venue?

dianaji - 9-3-2009 at 06:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
Diana, what do you want the world to know? What is the other forum? What I've learned about you so far is your needs. There must be more. Is it for this venue?


not sure what u are getting at. i might ask u the same question. are u here to judge me? it's not actually what i want the world to know, it's what i want to share. and yes, there is a lot more to know. i subscribe to many groups, mostly ecologically and health related.

noproblemo2 - 9-3-2009 at 06:28 PM

Can one not just try to improve our planet now-days???

Osprey - 9-3-2009 at 06:29 PM

Why are you texting? This forum is about Baja and you visit here sometimes so we are expecting Baja related subjects in whole English words and I, for one, am waiting for you to post things Bajaphiles would find interesting. You've spilled your moving problems all over us while asking us to find your daily bread. Do you now have the time to share some things with us? Did you ever figure out how to get power, water, electricity? It didn't sound to me that your place is "off the grid" so I guess you simply chose to live as cheaply as possible and hope providence would provide. Your entry into Baja, your whining about the lack of services told me you would not rank high against my stalwart but determined neighbors from the U.S. and Canada who think ahead, are self sufficient and hit the ground running, ready and able to help others in no time at all.

noproblemo2 - 9-3-2009 at 06:32 PM

So, saving Bajas environment is not liked here??? Hummmmm

dianaji - 9-3-2009 at 06:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by noproblemo2
So, saving Bajas environment is not liked here??? Hummmmm


WOW! this guy, osprey is sure negative! his posts would never be accepted on that forum which is DEFINITELY about baja! a positive forum where trolls and negativity is a no-no

as for me, i spend hours a day learning about how to improve the planet, especially by being kind.

Osprey - 9-3-2009 at 06:51 PM

No, bringing mobile homes down here, dumping them on the dirt without even checking on septic/sewer hookup availability is not a good way to start. Go back and check your friend's first posts and see how much she cared about those kinds of things? Maybe sitting every weekend night in the dark with her 4,000 succulents is eco neutral but it doesn't sound like fun or Baja to me.

noproblemo2 - 9-3-2009 at 06:52 PM

Yes, but some don't know the meaning of "POLITENESS", decency, and global warming....

noproblemo2 - 9-3-2009 at 06:55 PM

Must think they are still in the states, sad... So bashers go ahead, I DO CARE ABOUT BAJA & THE PLANET

dianaji - 9-3-2009 at 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
Maybe sitting every weekend night in the dark with her 4,000 succulents is eco neutral but it doesn't sound like fun or Baja to me.


double wow! how sick. perhaps u should get the facts straight. so, u've been sitting there with your evil thoughts and judgments all these months. it's sad. i have no need to defend. say what u will... i have nothing more to say.