BajaNomad - Another Airplane Stolen - San Quintín

Another Airplane Stolen - San Quintín

RD55 - 8-20-2009 at 09:29 AM

Wednesday 8-19-2009 - Campo Lorenzo

http://www.elvigia.net/noticias/?seccion=elvalle&id=1959...

A four-seat Cessna was stolen from the landing strip at Campo Lorenzo near San Quintín at about 3:30 AM while its owner was participating in a fishing tournament.

Crusoe - 8-20-2009 at 09:57 AM

It won't be the last incident like this either!! ++C++

arrowhead - 8-20-2009 at 03:55 PM

I think that Cessna owner lives in Escondido.

fishbuck - 8-20-2009 at 04:02 PM

Man, that hits close to home. That's not a remote site and you would think there are enough people around there to deter any aircraft theft.
Somebody has been watching the place waiting for an opportunity.

Power pilots in Baja? Mexicans love your planes!

Lee - 8-20-2009 at 04:15 PM

They have to be the stupidest group of pilots anywhere in the world. If these do-dos can't figure out how to disable their planes before leaving them for the night, they should turn their licenses in. Oh, I get it. They're NOT Rocket Scientists.

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
Man, that hits close to home. That's not a remote site and you would think there are enough people around there to deter any aircraft theft.
Somebody has been watching the place waiting for an opportunity.

bajabound2005 - 8-20-2009 at 06:44 PM

Wow! I saw this on the paper headline in Ensenada today....yet, when I went to the El Vigia site tonight, it was no longer the headline...in fact, could not find the story! So thanks for providing the link.

airmech - 8-20-2009 at 08:17 PM

Lee, Anytime a person screws with his airplane to disable it he is probably breaking a US federal law. The simple stuff to disable it is simple enough to fix while you steal it. Airplanes are made to run when things go wrong so it actually takes an effort to disable it surreptitiously. External stuff likes chains and locks just slow down the effort. Obviously you're not a rocket scientist either.....

fishbuck - 8-20-2009 at 08:34 PM

Take off the nose gear wheel and leave it in the hotel. I'd like to see you take off with out it.
I don't believe that would violate federal law because I think you are allowed to do something like fix a flat tire.
You could always drain the oil out of the engine as an owner is allowed to change his own oil.
They might be able to take off but I doubt if they will get very far.
Ofcourse you will still lose the plane. But gain a bit of satifaction.

[Edited on 8-21-2009 by fishbuck]

LancairDriver - 8-20-2009 at 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
They have to be the stupidest group of pilots anywhere in the world. If these do-dos can't figure out how to disable their planes before leaving them for the night, they should turn their licenses in. Oh, I get it. They're NOT Rocket Scientist.

How is it that a thread that is started to inform or be helpful always gets trashed by some marooon who hasn't a clue what they are talking about? Obviously something lacking here.

RD55 - 8-20-2009 at 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabound2005
Wow! I saw this on the paper headline in Ensenada today....yet, when I went to the El Vigia site tonight, it was no longer the headline...in fact, could not find the story! So thanks for providing the link.

It's still in the online El Vigía. From any page, click on El Valle on the navigation bar on the left and it's the first story.

I think they switch their website in the early AM, so by tomorrow AM, the website will reflect today's paper.

k-rico - 8-21-2009 at 01:57 AM

Anti theft - just read about a patent for device you would lock on to one of the blades of the prop to unbalance it.

Sounds like a simple solution. Much easier then checking into a hotel carrying your front wheel. :tumble:

capt. mike - 8-21-2009 at 07:16 AM

those prop devices can be removed too.

if they want it, they get it.

this sucks.

i feel for the guy, what a burn - go for fun, help the tourism/ecomomy and get to "ride" home and lose your plane.

lots of guys are quitting going. you see it all over.

Sympathy/No Sympathy

Lee - 8-21-2009 at 07:45 AM

I don't advise breaking any federal laws by removing airplane parts for security purposes. On the other hand, if a US plane is stolen in Baja, I'm guessing the feds would say well you shouldn't have been flying in Mexico.

I'd talk to an A&P and say: look, I need to disable my plane so it CAN'T be STOLEN when I'm in Mexico. IF the A&P were to say ''impossible'' -- like, if someone is smart enough to steal it and fly it away, they'll get it if they want it -- then I WOULDN'T FLY INTO MEXICO -- unless I was planning to sleep next to the plane at night with a weapon.

I'm not an A&P so I don't know what's possible. What an A&P advises might be against fed law.

Seems simple to me. Disable a plane if left unsecured for the night, or don't fly it to MX without possibility of it being stolen.

Any pilot who doesn't take security precautions is stupid and gets no sympathy from this Pilot.

Not sure how many more planes need to be stolen before the ''light bulb'' turns on.

surfer jim - 8-21-2009 at 09:16 AM

another look at this....

what if the planes are NOT being "stolen" but being taken to BAJA to collect insurance money.....economy is bad and lots of people bought expensive things they wanted but can't afford now....planes are hard to sell/expensive to keep....and a lot of high rollers are way over their heads....just arrange the crime and collect $$$$....

....this would explain why so many disappear from secure areas...

airmech - 8-21-2009 at 09:26 AM

KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN
This is the plane that was stolen. The owner was fishing, had a huge prop lock on it and NO it wasn't for the insurance money...It wasn't insured for theft.

The Sparrow4.JPG - 42kB

airmech - 8-21-2009 at 09:36 AM

Oh, and Lee no one really cares what you think. Its is pretty obvious you don't know what your talking about on this subject, sympathy or no sympathy. Also I don't think this thread was started to get sympathy, it was started to help and to report what had happen as a warning to other pilots. Since you have no clue and are obviously not here to help maybe you should stay out of the conversation. PS: My wife, my son, and myself are all A&Ps if you have any questions for one.

REPORT FROM CAMPO LORENZO ON STOLEN AIRCRAFT

Lorenzo - 8-21-2009 at 11:24 AM

Wednesday August 19th at approximately 3:30 a.m. a 1978 Cessna 172 (N6111E / CN# 17271991) was stolen from Campo Lorenzo Skypark (LZB) in San Quintin. The departure was made despite dark and foggy conditions.

It appeared to be a very well thought out and professional theft. The electronically controlled gate entrance to the Campo Lorenzo required access through a six strand barbed wire fence and an approximate half mile walk. Investigations indicate that two persons entered the property.

Deb and I are very sad, as well as angered over the loss of this aircraft. Only the victim can really feel the pain of loosing your aircraft. It is a shame that these incidents seem to be on the increase in the Baja that we all love and enjoy so much.

Prevention measures are already underway to prevent any other such incidents here at Campo Lorenzo. In addition to the existing boulders on the perimeter of our tie down area we are installing a large concrete barrier. The runway access will be sealed off with our 16,000 lb. water trailer (no vehicle attached) until any approved departure. Subsequent to these immediate security measures, we will be installing motion lights and other theft prevention devices.

Unfortunately, despite all the anti-theft gadgets we install, it’s difficult to stop a professional from entering aircraft and flying them away. We are confident that our plan to immediately coral aircraft in the tie down area, thus preventing access to the airstrip, should deter any further incidents.

shari - 8-21-2009 at 12:38 PM

thank you lorenzo...so sorry for this problem...but as i am an optimist...this will force people to come up with some creative ideas for better plane security...thanks for telling us about your improvement ideas.

arrowhead - 8-21-2009 at 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airmech
KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN
This is the plane that was stolen. The owner was fishing, had a huge prop lock on it and NO it wasn't for the insurance money...It wasn't insured for theft.

Hey! If that is a current picture of the plane, that owner has problems. No 12" letters? FAR § 45.29. They've got him down for an ADIZ violation.

fishbuck - 8-21-2009 at 01:09 PM

Although I certainly don't approve of what happened that pilot was very good to take off on your little runway at night in IFR conditions.
Like I said, they've been watching you, and the have probably flown out of there a few times before, for practice.
You probably know them. And I don't mean you we're in on it just that they have been there before.

Stickers - 8-21-2009 at 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
I don't advise breaking any federal laws by removing airplane parts for security purposes. On the other hand, if a US plane is stolen in Baja, I'm guessing the feds would say well you shouldn't have been flying in Mexico.

I'd talk to an A&P and say: look, I need to disable my plane so it CAN'T be STOLEN when I'm in Mexico. IF the A&P were to say ''impossible'' -- like, if someone is smart enough to steal it and fly it away, they'll get it if they want it -- then I WOULDN'T FLY INTO MEXICO -- unless I was planning to sleep next to the plane at night with a weapon.

I'm not an A&P so I don't know what's possible. What an A&P advises might be against fed law.

Seems simple to me. Disable a plane if left unsecured for the night, or don't fly it to MX without possibility of it being stolen.

Any pilot who doesn't take security precautions is stupid and gets no sympathy from this Pilot.

Not sure how many more planes need to be stolen before the ''light bulb'' turns on.

You should stick to a subject you know something about.

The last two aircraft thefts I recall were planned to get around any disabling of the aircraft. The thieves merely waited until the planes were fully occupied and taxing out to the runway. They pulled up with lots of AK-47s and dragged the families out of their planes scaring the crap out of them. They then got into the planes and flew off. As you can see these criminals are reading your posts and acting accordingly

A&P's say it's not possible to disable a plane -- bring 'em down!

Lee - 8-21-2009 at 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stickers As you can see these criminals are reading your posts and acting accordingly

Reading my posts? Oh I hope not. How about the 2 thefts before your two?

Quote:

Originally posted by airmech
Oh, and Lee no one really cares what you think. Its is pretty obvious you don't know what your talking about on this subject, sympathy or no sympathy. Also I don't think this thread was started to get sympathy, it was started to help and to report what had happen as a warning to other pilots. Since you have no clue and are obviously not here to help maybe you should stay out of the conversation. PS: My wife, my son, and myself are all A&Ps if you have any questions for one.

No one cares about my opinion? You mean those whiners who can't keep their planes from being stolen, or is the whiners complaining about late departures because of airport searches?

A&P's in the family? I guess you're saying that it's NOT possible to disable a airplane so it's NOT stolen? Also guess that information would be available if it were possible.

Try to follow this between your tears.

If leaving a plane UNATTENDED in Baja is equivalent to leaving your car parked with the engine running over night, then STOP FLYING PLANES TO BAJA.

Guess the stupid pilots have a problem with that. It's a fact. Nobody can tell a stupid pilot what to do. They know better.

http://www.elvigia.net/noticias/?seccion=elvalle&id=1959...

airmech - 8-21-2009 at 02:47 PM

Quote:

No one cares about my opinion?

Yeah no one cares about your opinion.

Lee - 8-21-2009 at 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airmech
Yeah no one cares about your opinion.

Written like the Pudknocker you are. Any more gems for the real pilots out there?

This thread is about how NOT to get your plane stolen in Baja, AND why you shouldn't whine here when you do not factor in a few minutes to explain your flight plan.

You're an accident waiting to happen. Stupid pilots crash and burn everyday and nobody cares.

If you have anything to write of value, U2U me. Otherwise, go to your room and behave. And no more whining.

dtbushpilot - 8-21-2009 at 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Originally posted by airmech
Yeah no one cares about your opinion.

For the record Lee, I don't care about your opinion and I would be willing to wager that the other pilots on this board don't care either.

This thread isn't about disabling your plane it's about letting people know what happened and to look out for the plane. I re-read the post looking for someone whining but couldn't find any. What I did find was a group of concerned Nomads and one incredibly stupid douchbag (that would be you Lee).

Don't you have a life Lee?.....no reply necessary...retorical...dt

fishbuck - 8-21-2009 at 04:22 PM

Come on guys! Let's play nice.

That was a pretty little Skyhawk for sure. I think it was a Skyhawk.
Anyway, ya keep an eye out for it. My guess is that it's already on the mainland and probably headed south. I seriously doubt it's still in Baja. But maybe.
My guess is it's head for Colombia, Venzuela, or Peru. I'm sure a buyer was already lined up for it. Probably for flying coke out of remote spots to a transportation center.
I think it is important to discuss how to disable or otherwise secure our planes down there.
Because once it's gone it's not coming back.
The only other alternative is to not fly to Baja. I'm building my life around flying down there so that's not an option for me.
I have flown down there many times and left my plane unattended and unsecured other than just locking the door. But those days are over.
So even though Lee is a bit abrasive he does have a point that it's a bit naive to not secure the plane somehow. Disabling or otherwise.
But no theft insurance? After all the stories of Cessnas especially being stolen?
A bit unwise. Penny wise and pound foolish.
But please fellow pilots and mechanics, be civil with each other on this issue.
Thanks!

[Edited on 8-21-2009 by fishbuck]

Lorenzo - 8-21-2009 at 05:10 PM

Fishbuck, we have registered every plane that has ever landed at our airport and personally know almost all of them. I really doubt that this was an inside job. Our strip is not " little" having 2500 feet of hard packed clay with water at both ends. No practice is necessary! Granted, the pilot knew what he was doing and probably makes a bunch of money from the drug people for doing it. Unfortunately, we are just another victim and now we need to go overboard with security - as we have now done.

fishbuck - 8-21-2009 at 06:07 PM

Sorry Senior Lorenzo didn't mean to imply inside job. And you runway does look very good.
But I doubt this was random either.
They knew that plane was there. Either they check often or someone called them. And I'm sure they have a pick list... C-172, C-182, C-206, C-210. Maybe even a Piper!
And maybe they haven't flown in and out before but they for sure have eyballed it during daylight hours.
And not just your place but probably every busy runway.
A two man team. 1 lock picking specialist and 1 pilot.
I really like your runway. I have property over at Pedregal so you can see why I am very concerned about this also.
Sorry it happened to you.

dt checks in with personal insults. More stupid pilots.

Lee - 8-21-2009 at 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
For the record Lee, I don't care about your opinion and I would be willing to wager that the other pilots on this board don't care either.

So, you don't care for my opinion and who gives a shlt about your opinion? Thanks for checking in. Any other stupid pilots out there, don't give a shlt about your opinion either.

Quote:

This thread isn't about disabling your plane it's about letting people know what happened and to look out for the plane. I re-read the post looking for someone whining but couldn't find any. What I did find was a group of concerned Nomads and one incredibly stupid douchbag (that would be you Lee).

Yeah well you can read the original thread and take what you want from the experiences of naive (stupid) pilots who've lost their planes. Keep it on the surface or take it a little deeper. That might be a first for you. Do you NOT learn from other pilots mistakes? GUess you're an accident waiting to happen, as well.

Quote:

Don't you have a life Lee?.....no reply necessary...retorical...dt

Anyone NOT learning from the mistakes made around security get in line with numbnuts, here. That's you, dt.

Just for the record folks, I've read that the hijacking in Mulege had to be an inside job. The perps were in the area for about a week and had been camping near the runway. If that were the case, I'd have my ducks in a row, and taxiing out on the runway with purpose. The clueless won't know what I'm writing about.

Time to 'fess up?

Lee - 8-21-2009 at 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
I have flown down there many times and left my plane unattended and unsecured other than just locking the door. But those days are over.
[Edited on 8-21-2009 by fishbuck]

OK I admit I"m tough loved when it comes to stupid pilot mistakes. I can't be the only one who thinks leaving a plane, even a ''locked'' one, is a good thing. Things have changed though I think some pilots will continue to think it can't happen to them.

Since at least one poster thinks the criminals read my posts, it might be best not to post the ways to disable a plane that would be left unattended. Think, on another post, fishbuck was the first to mention removing the propeller. Sounds good to me.

It wasn't really stupid mistakes --

beercan - 8-21-2009 at 09:01 PM

The primary target for airplane thefts in Mexico (Baja) has been the 200 series of Cessnas. They have a reputation for being heavy haulers . There must be a shortage now , so they are taking 182's ???
I have flown my airplanes in Mexico for 28 years and have never had a problem. Although I do fly "heavy haulers", they are not the Cessna brand. Both of my early planes could haul the same as the Cessnas, but they for some reason were not favored by the thieves.
Until the recent years, I never took any precautions other than locking my plane and keeping it in sight of my house in Baja.

To answer Lee's question, there is no easy legal way to disable a plane along the lines he is suggesting. The "remove a wheel" is one of the best "off the cuff" solutions, but you need tools and a special jack . Then if they have cased you, THEY JUST BRING A SPARE !!! So there are no easy solutions !!!

Quote:

by lee
OK I admit I"m tough loved when it comes to stupid pilot mistakes. I can't be the only one who thinks leaving a plane, even a ''locked'' one, is a good thing. Things have changed though I think some pilots will continue to think it can't happen to them.

fishbuck - 8-21-2009 at 09:10 PM

I still think is a C-172. It's got that hawk stencil on the tail. Good for short hops out of remote jungle strips with 500-700 lbs of coke.

fishbuck - 8-21-2009 at 09:13 PM

How about taking the cowling off and leaving it in the hotel. But I think the plane would still fly without it.
So take off the cowling, the nose gear tire, flatten the mains, drain the oil out...

fishbuck - 8-21-2009 at 09:43 PM

What makes you so sure Baja Californios took it?

arrowhead - 8-21-2009 at 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo
I really doubt that this was an inside job.

That may be true, but in the El Vigia article it says your night watchman stated that he was just paid to watch the houses, not the airplanes. That explanation sure does not jive 100% with what you are saying about your security. By the way, does that night watchman still work there? Did he come into some money recently?
:rolleyes:

inside ?

beercan - 8-21-2009 at 10:20 PM

There was speculation that the planes were being tracked from their mexican airport of entry ? Information of their intended stay was gained thru there ?

fishbuck - 8-21-2009 at 10:29 PM

Recruit the best car thief from Ensenada and the best active or former military pilot from Ensenada.
Provide them with the flight plan of the target aircraft when he enters in the airport of entry. ( probably Ensenada).
I frequently see highwing Cessna type airplanes patrolling around Ensenada information. Probably military trainers from Ensenada.
Pure speculation though.

Think fishbuck hit the nail on the head

Lee - 8-22-2009 at 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
My guess is that it's already on the mainland and probably headed south. I seriously doubt it's still in Baja. But maybe.
My guess is it's head for Colombia, Venzuela, or Peru. I'm sure a buyer was already lined up for it. Probably for flying coke out of remote spots to a transportation center.
I think it is important to discuss how to disable or otherwise secure our planes down there.

[Edited on 8-21-2009 by fishbuck]

I'm thinking this is it. It's unlikely thief's would steal a plane and fly it around Baja. These planes are somewhere in the Mainland or South, used for illegal purposes, and a buyer (cartel) was financing the thief.

So, fishbuck and Bob? Is there a solution to preventing thief's from flying off with personal planes while the pilot is somewhere in Baja other than the airport? It looks like disabling is limited and there's little that can be done.

There must be SOMETHING that can be done! What are the solutions?

shari - 8-22-2009 at 07:48 AM

solution? maybe military guards at airstrips?

LancairDriver - 8-22-2009 at 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
solution? maybe military guards at airstrips?

It works at the airstrip at the Sirenidad hotel in Mulege. (So far)

dtbushpilot - 8-22-2009 at 09:25 AM

Keeping your insurance up to date would be a good idea. Flying a conventional gear (tail dragger) plane would be helpful. Although they would be great for rough field operations I haven't heard of any of them being stolen......dt

Crusoe - 8-22-2009 at 09:25 AM

Gaurds will only work until someone bribes them with enough money. ++C++

capt. mike - 8-22-2009 at 10:32 AM

Arrowhead - you don't need the 12" letters to go to mexico - you need them to re enter USA and cross the ADIZ.

my mooney M20F (great plane for baja BTW!) didn't have 12", only 3" std - so we taped on N3535X with 2" black electrical tape for trips for the 5 years that plane went to baja and mainland - 1985-1990. Everyone used to do it. the tape comes off easily once back home and no damage to paint.

removing a plane's prop, especially like my comanche's constant speed 3 blade McCauley is a total pain because it's messy - all the hyd runs off, takes 2 guys if you want to be careful about it, and also a pain to line up the studs & re install - and if it has been dynamically balanced ($125-175) you're going to lose that by pulling it.
its not a pragmatic option - there are quite a few others tho - with some research you can do a lot of disablers, it takes them a long time to figure out - by then they give up - or destroy it. My 210 flying buddy, 10 yrs air force AI A&P has made his pretty theft proof after all the 210's were ripped the past 6 years, 3 of which from friends of mine, one taken from supposedly secure Hermosillo - well we suspect that one was inside job. He's got a new plane but he's never gone back to Mexico, once burned twice shy. too bad - he was a great Sam's member.

Lee - i don't get you - why the incendiary attitude? pilots are normally a great bunch and represent a special brotherhood. you come across so bitter - why?

i am not flying as much now and not going out of the country either. My plane is not desired by the cartels. but i will eventually get back into it when the time is right.

i can't believe they ripped a 172. maybe some one said it was a 182 mistakenly and when they got there they figured take it anyway. a 172 is useless as a drug hauler. it's a 2 person plane really - 4 if you have 2 small kids in back. but if it was his baby i feel for him - no theft insurance? how does that happen? unless he was simply not carrying a hull policy - most insurance covers theft in mexico, canada and bahamas with your hull premium. Mexico only requires liability. Some guys are ok with "self insure".
but if it bends or goes missing.....you're out.

keep flying mexico, all you guys that can. it's still the most fun you can have with a plane - well at least until the USA gov't makes it completely impossible with stupid regs.....i see it coming. too bad.

If Only I had known.........

MrBillM - 8-22-2009 at 12:25 PM

Then what I just learned here.

When I think back to all of those trips I flew in 172s with four adults on board flying out of Thermal in the Summer. Especially those trips to Gonzaga with food and drink aboard too. Thank God none of us were over-weight back in those days.

Just pure dumb luck, I guess.

Now, if you want to talk about a plane with 4-seats that shouldn't, it was the Cherokee 140-4 I used to rent because it was the cheapest 4-seater available at Thermal. I took off a couple of times in that with 4 on board in the summer. Nice long runways at Thermal. Good thing.

arrowhead - 8-22-2009 at 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
Arrowhead - you don't need the 12" letters to go to mexico - you need them to re enter USA and cross the ADIZ.

OK, now let me show you where you are entirely wrong. First off, I said nothing abount needing 12" letters to go to Mexico. I said lack of 12" letters are an ADIZ violation. Here is my exact post:

Quote:

Hey! If that is a current picture of the plane, that owner has problems. No 12" letters? FAR § 45.29. They've got him down for an ADIZ violation.

Secondly you are wrong about only needing 12" letters to renter the USA. ADIZ's are not uni-directional. The rules apply no matter which direction you are heading -- inbound or outbound. I am sure as the experienced pilot you are(cough, cough) you are fully aware that there are ADIZ's entirely within the territorial limits of the US, like the one over the White House.

Here's the regulation:

Quote:

FAR § 45.29(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high.

Note the lack of specificity as to what direction you happen to be heading when you penetrate the ADIZ.

LancairDriver - 8-22-2009 at 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Then what I just learned here.

When I think back to all of those trips I flew in 172s with four adults on board flying out of Thermal in the Summer. Especially those trips to Gonzaga with food and drink aboard too. Thank God none of us were over-weight back in those days.

Just pure dumb luck, I guess.

Now, if you want to talk about a plane with 4-seats that shouldn't, it was the Cherokee 140-4 I used to rent because it was the cheapest 4-seater available at Thermal. I took off a couple of times in that with 4 on board in the summer. Nice long runways at Thermal. Good thing.

Cessna 172 performance specs.
2300 lbs gross takeoff weight
1000 lbs useful load
MINUS-
42 gal fuel =252 lbs
4 adults @ 170 lbs each=680 lbs(hope nobody weighs more)
Leaves 68 lbs for luggage for 4
(takes care of the 1000lb useful load)
Don't pack heavy.
leaves 68lbs for luggage for 4

fishbuck - 8-22-2009 at 02:34 PM

Put on two hours of fuel. 1 pilot and about 500-700 pounds off "cargo".
I think a Skyhawk has an 800 foot talkoff roll.
No a bad little jungle hopper. If you are way out in the jungle with no roads it sure beats bringing your "cargo" out by donkey.
Land near a hiway and put the "cargo" on a northboard truck.
It's not a heavy hauler or long hauler. But it beats walking.
And while it may not be legal, I knew a teen pilot who carried full fuel, 4 pax and gear many times.

[Edited on 8-22-2009 by fishbuck]

Gee Thanks for all that Additional Info.

MrBillM - 8-22-2009 at 04:04 PM

Of course, I could have gotten it by looking in the Aircraft Manual for that model. Although I don't fly anymore, I still have the manuals for every plane I ever checked out in stuffed in the bookcase. I appreciate the concern for my education, though.

The Trips to Gonzaga in the 172 DID require keeping the Beer load down and drinking a lot of Coronas but, other than that, No Problema.

AND, everybody DID weigh under 160. Those were the good old (young and slim) days.

Barry A. - 8-22-2009 at 04:49 PM

I was a fully rated commercial pilot for years (I guess I still am???), tho I don't fly anymore---haven't for years. Cessna 172's were the scaryiest airplane I EVER flew----------due to their lack of power.

I will take a 182, or better, any day over a 172 and it is ALL BECAUSE OF THEIR LACK OF POWER TO GET YOU OUT OF INADVERTANT SITUATIONS, or handle HOT DAYS. I much preferred 206's and 210's, but a 182 is a fine aircraft.

----no 150's or 172's please. :no:

Barry

fishbuck - 8-22-2009 at 05:02 PM

C152's and 172's are fine planes but it's the difference between flying the wing and the engine.
But ya, that's why I love to fly the Cherokee 6, Lance or Saratoga. 300HP's are more fun.

Barry A. - 8-22-2009 at 05:47 PM

You sure have a point, Fishbuck, but I was in too many thunderstorms in the southeast, and a low powered aircraft leaves you at the mercy of up, and down drafts and that is spooky. I also had encounters with the edges of the Sierra Wave in Owens Valley in low powered aircraft-----1000 feet up, and then 2000 feet down----------THAT was not much fun at all!!!!

I like my macho engines better than my glider wings. :lol:

To each his own------------

(never flew a glider, so that may have changed my mind????)

Barry

Scary

MrBillM - 8-22-2009 at 08:23 PM

I must have missed something. I never found the 150, 172 or any other plane I flew SCARY. Like anyone else, I had a few occasions when I found myself in a tough situation, but none of them had to do with the aircraft itself. I thought that the Cherokee 140-4 was a Pig, but it didn't ever scare me. It was nice to land, though, for those used to High-Wings.

Granted, the 150 and 172 could have used more power, but that thought usually came to mind on LONG flights over territory I'd covered before. The FBO at 29P bought a 172XP while I was flying there and I spent quite a few hours with it, including once to Gonzaga. That extra HP and Prop made it the perfect 172. I don't think it was very popular, though.

Different strokes, I guess. I knew one (OLD) pilot who used to come out every weekend to fly around in the Cloth-covered Piper Pacer he'd owned for many years. He seemed REALLY happy. Senility, I guess. I did hear that the Tri-Pacer could be a scary plane to land in crosswinds. Never had a chance to find out.

Personally, I LOVED the 150 and spent many afternoons alone ground-attacking dunes in the desert. I probably spent 80 percent of my flying time alone or with only one other person aboard so a two-place would have been perfect. If I'd ever bought a plane, the C150 would have been it. I remember at one time "someone" was building 150/150s, putting the 150hp Lycoming in the C150. THAT would have been fun to own, especially on Hot Summer days.

SCARED ? Nah !

Barry A. - 8-22-2009 at 10:22 PM

I learned to fly, and had about 230 hours in, a cloth-covered Aeronca Tri-champ two seater, one behind the other, with a stick between your leg. I too spent many hours in this plane over the deserts and coastal mountains, alone, and it was a dream to fly. Never scary at all. I took several 500+ mile cross country flights in that aircraft, at 90 mph it took forever. What a blast!!!! :lol:

Sorry, I can't say the same for 150's and and 172's.. both dogs!! IMO.

Like you say, Bill, "different strokes for different folks"------I was never sure I was getting home in either of those "entry level" Cessnas.

My favorite was the Beech Baron twin.

Barry

arrowhead - 8-22-2009 at 11:48 PM

Looks like he put on 12" letters sometime between July, 2008 and July, 2009.

No theft insurance? 80% of aviation accidents/incidents are pilot error.

Lee - 8-23-2009 at 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo
Unfortunately, despite all the anti-theft gadgets we install, it’s difficult to stop a professional from entering aircraft and flying them away. We are confident that our plan to immediately coral aircraft in the tie down area, thus preventing access to the airstrip, should deter any further incidents.

Fear of Flying ?

MrBillM - 8-23-2009 at 09:27 AM

Wow. I am amazed to find out how truly Scary those Cessnas could be. Imagine flying an airplane that you don't think is going to get you back home. And, doing it more than ONCE. That's something. It demonstrates either a bravery beyond belief or foolishness.

It must have just been Damned good luck along with blissful ingnorance that didn't result in my early demise. There but for the grace of God and all that.

It IS another example of neglect on the part of the Federal Government that the FAA would allow those "Death-Traps" to continue to fly to this day.

AND, it's Amazing that those lethal aircraft form the backbone of almost ALL General Aviation Instruction. I suppose The Thought must be that Training in such undependable aircraft will leave those who survive as better equipped to fly more stable craft. Start with the worst and learn to master that.

Now that I've found out about my having been "Extremely" lucky, I'm curious to know WHAT danger(s) lurking in said craft presented the greatest danger ?

Engine Failure ? Was there something different that Lycoming did with those Cessna deliveries as opposed to Piper, Grumman and others ? Fuel delivery problems ?

Airframe Failures ? Control Surfaces Falling Off ? Lost Wings ? Catastrophic Electrical failures ? That Danged FAA not issuing NOTAMS or Airworthiness Directives as they should ? Allowing defective equipment to kill again and again ?

It's incredible to think how many people are out there in danger right now and the Government is turning a Blind-Eye.

THAT is an outrage.

I suppose, though, that the one upside to this latest stolen plane is that the thieves saved the 172 owner from eventual certain death. He should give thanks.

AND, those dirty thieves may be already dead somewhere in said Death-Trap.

Thanks, Barry, for alerting an ignorant public of this danger.

Hallelujah. I'm thankful to have survived.

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Wow. I am amazed to find out how truly Scary those Cessnas could be. Imagine flying an airplane that you don't think is going to get you back home. And, doing it more than ONCE. That's something. It demonstrates either a bravery beyond belief or foolishness.

It must have just been Damned good luck along with blissful ingnorance that didn't result in my early demise. There but for the grace of God and all that.

It IS another example of neglect on the part of the Federal Government that the FAA would allow those "Death-Traps" to continue to fly to this day.

AND, it's Amazing that those lethal aircraft form the backbone of almost ALL General Aviation Instruction. I suppose The Thought must be that Training in such undependable aircraft will leave those who survive as better equipped to fly more stable craft. Start with the worst and learn to master that.

Now that I've found out about my having been "Extremely" lucky, I'm curious to know WHAT danger(s) lurking in said craft presented the greatest danger ?

Engine Failure ? Was there something different that Lycoming did with those Cessna deliveries as opposed to Piper, Grumman and others ? Fuel delivery problems ?

Airframe Failures ? Control Surfaces Falling Off ? Lost Wings ? Catastrophic Electrical failures ? That Danged FAA not issuing NOTAMS or Airworthiness Directives as they should ? Allowing defective equipment to kill again and again ?

It's incredible to think how many people are out there in danger right now and the Government is turning a Blind-Eye.

THAT is an outrage.

I suppose, though, that the one upside to this latest stolen plane is that the thieves saved the 172 owner from eventual certain death. He should give thanks.

AND, those dirty thieves may be already dead somewhere in said Death-Trap.

Thanks, Barry, for alerting an ignorant public of this danger.

Hallelujah. I'm thankful to have survived.

Good one, Bill. Barry

capt. mike - 8-23-2009 at 10:55 AM

Arrowhead - you are right on the rules. I just didn't always add my tape till the morning of my return to USA - and a few times i didn't and CBP didn't even notice at OLS or YUM.
i'd cross the ADIz southbound sans numerals for years cause no body cared or watched - we didn't even need discrete sqwawk codes - just 1200 VFR - if i was doing flight following with ABQ or LA center they'd say C-ya services terminated when they could see me cross. i mean - those filed plans were usually non stop SDL or DVT (phoenix satellites) to Guaymas or Loreto if not la paz. Who is reading the numbers when you are at 10,000 ft? - but i know - the law is the law. i bought a 12" letters decal for the comanche before i had it painted - got tired of the tape dance.

now.....about the venerable 172 - here's my quick tale

once when i was in a club before i bought into the mooney in 1985, we had 2 cherokee 180s , 2 C-177s, one fixed one retract, a comanche 250 and a 172. You reserved by phone with a service.
so i always flew the 180s to baja and if i could get them for stateside trips too.
we planned the 1984 Reno air races and i had one of the 180s reserved for 5 days. when i got to the airport to leave it wasn't there - some one had double booked it and the perp knew i had it 1st!!
all the other planes were taken except the fricking 172! i had to fly that useless pud knocker from phx to Reno in hot Sept!! talk about anemic - and i was peeed too!! it was so slow we decided to stop in vegas, partially since the scheduling snafu got us a late start. i was steaming the entire time from PHX to Vegas North airport. then we had to finish the slog to Reno the next morning.

in the 180 that trip would have been one day. i can do it all the time in 3.5 NS in the comanche now. :lol:

mtgoat666 - 8-23-2009 at 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
solution? maybe military guards at airstrips?

military should protect military airports.
private airports should provide their own security. if pvt strips need to more money for security, they should provide security instead of looking for govt handout, and operator should increase landing fees to cover cost of security.

if airplanes are being stolen, then pilots should complain to person who collects the landing fees.

Skeet/Loreto - 8-23-2009 at 11:49 AM

Very good Thread . Excellent comments. Takes me Back!

So that you all know where I am coming from, I was an Aviation Accident Investigator for several years, mostly the Pacific Northwest, Alaska and Baja.
I have a little over 6,000 Hours flying time.

If I may address the Cessna 172 Aircraft- There are 3 172's stack up at Christmas Valley just off the runway at Tahoe::

Why? At one time Reid-Hillview Airpoer FBO was training pilots in Cessna 150"s, when they got their 40 hours they would rent a 172, take their friends and head for Tahoe{7,00o FT.}

I took delivery on a brand New 172 and flew it for many hours. There is nothing wrong woh the Aircraft if flown with in its limitations, Its the Pilot of the Aircraft that gets in Trouble.

I have about 2,000 Hours in a Cessna 170{My favorite Aircraft} flying Baja.

I spent 3 years towing Gliders into the Sierra Wave in a Super Cub Out of Bishop.

Don"t blame the Aircraft for getting you into trouble!! It is YOU!

I stopped flying my 172 in Baja when on my last trip I took off downwind at 105 degrees out of Sta Innez. Had two passengers and a load of Fish. Just did make it!!. Decided right then I was going to be taking more weigh, shorter strips, I needed a different Airplane.

Help to protect from Thief: Thake inspection plates off, install Fuel Cutoffs put plate back on and each time you are going to leave yopur aircraft, take off plate shut off Fuel. Also drain your fuel from the engine therefore it will never start.
It will take some time and effort to find the shut offs in the wing.Skeet

Blinded by the Light.

MrBillM - 8-23-2009 at 12:23 PM

OK, NOW I understand.

MORE HP (and SPEED) is BETTER.

Wow ! There's a revelation from the Illiminati. We can be thankful for such edification from above. WHO would have thought ?

Those of you in the Aviation Elite ought to get together, publish a book and bring the word to those who didn't know.

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
OK, NOW I understand.

MORE HP (and SPEED) is BETTER.

Wow ! There's a revelation from the Illiminati. We can be thankful for such edification from above. WHO would have thought ?

Those of you in the Aviation Elite ought to get together, publish a book and bring the word to those who didn't know.

Thank you, Bill. Let us know if we can help you write it.

Barry

Skeet/Loreto - 8-23-2009 at 01:03 PM

recommend:

For all private Pilots prior to issue of a License:

Qualify in a Glider at least 5 hours.

5 takeoffs and landing at Hi Density Airports Above 5,000 on a Hot Day}

Skeet/Loreto - 8-23-2009 at 01:30 PM

One more recommend:

Read" Exploring the Monster" by Robert Whelan

Ken Bondy - 8-23-2009 at 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
My favorite was the Beech Baron twin.
Barry

Me too Barry. Here was mine at San Francisquito:

Ken Bondy - 8-23-2009 at 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
recommend:

For all private Pilots prior to issue of a License:

Qualify in a Glider at least 5 hours.

5 takeoffs and landing at Hi Density Airports Above 5,000 on a Hot Day}

Skeet, you should probably add:

Take off into the wind.

++Ken++

LancairDriver - 8-23-2009 at 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Thank you, Bill. Let us know if we can help you write it.

Barry

Barry- I think I have a better understanding why this guy no longer flys.

arrowhead - 8-23-2009 at 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Help to protect from Thief: Thake inspection plates off, install Fuel Cutoffs put plate back on and each time you are going to leave yopur aircraft, take off plate shut off Fuel. Also drain your fuel from the engine therefore it will never start.
It will take some time and effort to find the shut offs in the wing.Skeet

Jeeze, I really wish you guys would stop proposing all these ridiculous ways to prevent an airplane theft. The only thing you can do, unless you are an A&P, are those maintenance things a pilot is allowed to do by the FAR's. That is not much. Probably the best is to remove the battery and take it with you. That is legal. You cannot bolt on a hidden fuel shut off without getting a STC for the modification. Ever heard of vapor lock? You cannot put in a hidden "kill switch". You cannot remove a propellar.

And like somebody else said, all they have to do is wait for you to preflight the plane and put a gun to your head.

Favorites?

Lee - 8-23-2009 at 06:42 PM

Beechcraft King Air 350

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 07:27 PM

Yep, Lee------your right. I flew (right seat) the National Park Service's Turbo King Air from Grand Canyon to Phoenix, and then returned with a load of folks---------what a BEAUTIFUL aircraft, both in looks and handling----a mini-airliner. :yes:

Barry

The OLD Baja Rule:

MrBillM - 8-24-2009 at 09:26 AM

"First Liar doesn't stand a Chance"

and

"Mine is Bigger than yours".

LancairDriver - 8-24-2009 at 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto[/i

Help to protect from Thief: Thake inspection plates off, install Fuel Cutoffs put plate back on and each time you are going to leave yopur aircraft, take off plate shut off Fuel. Also drain your fuel from the engine therefore it will never start.
It will take some time and effort to find the shut offs in the wing.Skeet

Skeet- Wonder how the airplane thieves like your idea?

Skeet/Loreto - 8-24-2009 at 02:41 PM

From my experiences I think it might save your plane, even through you may find a Thief who will be smart enough to figure it out and turn on the Valve.

I recovered:{Stole} a Cessna 210 out of Navajoa some years back after the Original Bandits where shot down and forced to leave it setting in a street of a small Village with the Engine still running. No one knew how to shut it off so everybody justed waited until it ran out of Fuel.
I could not get anyone with the Authourity to tell me it was o. K. to leave so hired the local Aviation Mechanic out of Hermissello to give me an O.k. on the Engine. Then stole{Recovered} the 210 by flying it directly to Calixcao. , just landed and told customs I had not crossed the Border.

At that time all you had to do was take off from Mexicali, call Calxico land and clear customs. They had no way of proving where you had come from.