BajaNomad

Camping Fee

Don Alley - 9-14-2009 at 07:43 AM

David K - 9-14-2009 at 07:47 AM

Oh... it is so clear now!:yes:

:lol: Thanks for that!

Crusoe - 9-14-2009 at 10:21 AM

Don.... Where is this sign located. Thanx ++C++

DENNIS - 9-14-2009 at 10:29 AM

Notice the antenna on the trailer roof. Obsessions of the foreigner.

Sharksbaja - 9-14-2009 at 10:38 AM

Interesting rig.

DENNIS - 9-14-2009 at 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Interesting rig.



Yeah....Looks like it's involved in some kind of mateing ritual.

Russ - 9-14-2009 at 11:15 AM

Don, I think I have a fix for your avatar.....:lol:

jack.jpg - 21kB

gnukid - 9-14-2009 at 11:29 AM

What is confusing to me, is that the sign implies you must pay to camp in the federal zone between the mean high tide federal lines which I have always understood is explicitly prohibited from being managed/owned locally.

Is it forbidden for individuals, cities or states to declare ownership rights to demand money to people who wish to use/camp in the beach federal zone?

And in this case, the sign maker wants to charge you twice if you have a camper?

I understand it is common in rural regions and attempted by vagrants all other though it would be a strict violation of applicable federal law?

elizabeth - 9-14-2009 at 01:17 PM

Well, who would want to sleep on a deposit of maritime wather anyway???

I just think I figured out what that thing on the top back of the trailer is...either a clapping sea lion or a sattelite dish...

[Edited on 9-14-2009 by elizabeth]

Don Alley - 9-14-2009 at 01:27 PM

I just thought the sign was kind of cute.

It was flat on the ground, probably a victim of the hurricane, at the entrance to Juncalito Beach near Loreto. But it's where a fence was torn down several times so maybe it wasn't the hurricane.

For several years Loreto trailer parks have complained about competition from free beaches. There have been unsuccessful attempts to fence off and close this beach. The fee is the latest attempt, instituted and collected by the municipality of Loreto.

Actual parking and camping takes place above the federal zone, as far as I can tell. At Juncalito, rumor has it that the land around the "free" beach is FONATUR's.

If I remember correctly (which I don't always do, having perhaps only half a deck) there are similar signs at other area beaches.

Bob and Susan - 9-14-2009 at 01:37 PM

don...you ONLY have half a deck?

i ONLY have a medium deck...

look at this...for clarification
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz82fjXqFQ4

gnukid - 9-14-2009 at 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
I just thought the sign was kind of cute.

It was flat on the ground, probably a victim of the hurricane, at the entrance to Juncalito Beach near Loreto. But it's where a fence was torn down several times so maybe it wasn't the hurricane.

For several years Loreto trailer parks have complained about competition from free beaches. There have been unsuccessful attempts to fence off and close this beach. The fee is the latest attempt, instituted and collected by the municipality of Loreto.

Actual parking and camping takes place above the federal zone, as far as I can tell. At Juncalito, rumor has it that the land around the "free" beach is FONATUR's.

If I remember correctly (which I don't always do, having perhaps only half a deck) there are similar signs at other area beaches.


Here's the secret, you park the car at the median high tide line and make your tent below the highest-high tide line, anyone who tries to charge you is breaking federal law, which is a serious offense. Though you must be careful about ocean surge and extreme tides which are predictable.

Also, parking in an arroyo (after hurricane season) may not be restricted for charges by municipalities etc...

These attempts by individuals to restrict access to the beach and federal lands and charge people for access on federal beach zones are a critical issue for Baja.

If a municipality would like to have a campground, they can and should develop one on municipal property, where they have a right to do so.

Russ - 9-14-2009 at 02:15 PM

It is my understanding that anyone can purchase a concession in the fed zone for specific uses. If that is true then gnukid needs to revise his rule book.
Half Deck, I think that sign is a treasure. I was going to suggest you change your avatar to....

Joker.jpg - 27kB

gnukid - 9-14-2009 at 02:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
It is my understanding that anyone can purchase a concession in the fed zone for specific uses. If that is true then gnukid needs to revise his rule book.
Half Deck, I think that sign is a treasure. I was going to suggest you change your avatar to....


You do not purchase a concession for federal land. You pay a fee to in order to have first right to use it, however you may not restrict access under any circumstance.

You may for example, offer a chair for fee or perhaps teach a sport, rent sports gear, have an organized game or event etc...

One method to restrict access which could be considered legal would be to have a concession to rent chairs and then put chairs everywhere, therefore you restrict access, though legally anyone can sit on the ground without restriction or brig their own chair.

I am certainly no expert and I would never interfere, but the difference between personal property, city property or federal zone property is quite is simple and clear. Those who attempt to restrict access are not standing on legal ground.

It isn't something easily resolved though when you want to go to the beach on Sunday afternoon.

Generally I would discourage paying an individual for access to federal zone lands where they have no right to restrict access.

gnukid - 9-14-2009 at 03:19 PM

Quite honestly Dennis is a matter that is easily considered by the Procuraduria Justica Del Estada Baja California Sur, all that is required is an offender, a victim, two witnesses to testify and the case can reported and filed for prosecution. Of course, what Ministerial Police would file a report against his own city representative or any vagrant for the offense of playing this game of demanding and collecting fees from Gringos. Therefore, you would simply need to request a Federal Judge or prosecutor to file a demand against the MP and the MP Prosecutor for failing to prosecute the case. Simple Dennis. 5-10 years later... case closed. Beach open!

gnukid - 9-14-2009 at 03:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
gnukid

What do you do when the people have a concession on the federal land?


To be clear, I am not a lawyer in Mexico or anywhere, I am just kid who goes to the beach with practical experience that probably anyone has.

So, if someone has a concession, depending on the type they have the right to sell services or conduct activities in their concession zone which is in the federal zone though not in the median tide zone, they however can not restrict your access to pass. Of course, cars may be restricted from the Federal Zone or not depending on the current trend or history of it being an access.

So, they can sell you some service, a chair, a drink, or stop you from selling a drink or a chair but they can not stop you from sitting on the ground or realistically from setting up a tent on a temporary basis. You will therefore find people with tents on any beach without restriction for example the Malecon in La Paz, Balandra, Cancun, Puerta Vallarta etc... You may not be able to pass with a car which should be parked in a nearby arroyo access which is always legal though not always a good idea.

So you see, the arroyo is always our friend, though you must respect the arroyo and it's temporal qualities.

Back to Concessions, do not park your car in the concession nor make a permanent camp, I recall the temporary time period may be up to a few weeks, not sure. If there is an issue, simply leave and come back.

That is why, when some big action occurs and the MP police and everyone says get off this federal zone land here you stupid campers, all you have to do is leave, go camp somewhere else for a while and come back!

These personal, city, federal lines are critical to understand in any country for they provide many opportunities for camping temporarily if you understand the law. City has no jurisdiction over Federal zones, and vice-versa.

Finally, if you understand about tides, you will find that camping within the median tide line is the most enjoyable when tides are averaging lower tides, you will find the best moderate temperature in warm weather due to the affect of the ocean, and most economic and most eco-conscious place if you respect the marine life, and pack all trash. Except the one time you make a mistake predicting the high tide and end up sleeping in a wet sleeping bag or your camp is entirely washed away that's why I make a wall of stones or sleep on a table during high tides.

Here's another little secret, if its a cold night, and you have a fire in the tidal zone the tide will reduce the impact or danger of the hot coals the next day because they will be washed away, or after a fire, take the coals and spread them in a thin layer and cover with sand, then put your bag down and you will have a warm bed all night.

k-rico - 9-14-2009 at 03:52 PM

"that's why I......sleep on a table during high tides"

HA!

Please post a photo.............

Very thorough GNU.

Paula - 9-14-2009 at 03:55 PM

[Russ,

You're onto something here. Don's really a card, and the joker suits him. As for that face card, he knows that two heads are better than one.:dudette:

DENNIS - 9-14-2009 at 04:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Quite honestly Dennis


Simple Dennis.



And you're addressing me why? What did I say?

Jack Swords - 9-14-2009 at 04:40 PM

Since this thread is still civilized so far, I have a question Gnukid. Don't the marinas in La Paz have a concession? If so, they do restrict the public from access don't they? Or, is the concession a special one that allows that? Thanks.

msteve1014 - 9-14-2009 at 04:51 PM

Dennis, Are going to let him get away with calling you simple?

gnukid - 9-14-2009 at 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Swords
Since this thread is still civilized so far, I have a question Gnukid. Don't the marinas in La Paz have a concession? If so, they do restrict the public from access don't they? Or, is the concession a special one that allows that? Thanks.


Speaking only from experience, like all concessions if the concession is in use 24 hours a day it is great way to restrict access. I have a lot of experience with Marina La Paz, you can come in and out, you can access the restaurant and bathrooms, pay to use a shower, they have practically the only free bathroom in Mexico which is available to the general public, there are both public and private spots to park outside, the dingy dock is available temporarily for anyone, if you want water or over night you pay $1/day which is nice or a monthly fee of about $200 pesos for small boats to use the launch and to use the dingy dock overnight. For me that has been an excellent option, still I would lock the boat with a lock to the chock, even though a security guard is on watch and there is a camera pointed at the dingy dock, if you boat is gone for a joy ride-that's no fun.

There is a lock on the gate but if you make a reasonable case you can get a key but you must pay the key deposit $400 pesos. The dingy dock has no locked door so it is acessible 24/7 with a security guard on watch.

There is also the club cruceros which is on the side, joining is about $10 and that provides many services and support. As a side note, being a member of club cruceros may even give you access to prestigious yacht clubs worldwide as I found such as the NY Yacht Club and yacht clubs around the world!

Next to club cruceros is a little access where boats do enter and exit and dock for free! Some of the original pangas still fish every day from there.

The access point, is one they build and maintain so you pay to use it, though they are very kind about this and flexible. Next door is a free access at the public beach which has a shallow muddy beach so you must pick and choose your launch at a high tide and another in front of the grande baja, another on the malecon etc... and another launch at Palmira and another at Cantamar and Pichlingue.

DENNIS - 9-14-2009 at 05:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by msteve1014
Dennis, Are going to let him get away with calling you simple?



Oh, yeah...he calls me all sorts of things. Not important. I respect the man and his opinions. Very well studied, most of the time.