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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Camping Fee
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64856
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Oh... it is so clear now!
 Thanks for that!
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
Member Is Offline
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Don.... Where is this sign located. Thanx ++C++
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Notice the antenna on the trailer roof. Obsessions of the foreigner.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Interesting rig.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Interesting rig. |
Yeah....Looks like it's involved in some kind of mateing ritual.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
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Don, I think I have a fix for your avatar.....
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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What is confusing to me, is that the sign implies you must pay to camp in the federal zone between the mean high tide federal lines which I have
always understood is explicitly prohibited from being managed/owned locally.
Is it forbidden for individuals, cities or states to declare ownership rights to demand money to people who wish to use/camp in the beach federal
zone?
And in this case, the sign maker wants to charge you twice if you have a camper?
I understand it is common in rural regions and attempted by vagrants all other though it would be a strict violation of applicable federal law?
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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Well, who would want to sleep on a deposit of maritime wather anyway???
I just think I figured out what that thing on the top back of the trailer is...either a clapping sea lion or a sattelite dish...
[Edited on 9-14-2009 by elizabeth]
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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I just thought the sign was kind of cute.
It was flat on the ground, probably a victim of the hurricane, at the entrance to Juncalito Beach near Loreto. But it's where a fence was torn down
several times so maybe it wasn't the hurricane.
For several years Loreto trailer parks have complained about competition from free beaches. There have been unsuccessful attempts to fence off and
close this beach. The fee is the latest attempt, instituted and collected by the municipality of Loreto.
Actual parking and camping takes place above the federal zone, as far as I can tell. At Juncalito, rumor has it that the land around the "free" beach
is FONATUR's.
If I remember correctly (which I don't always do, having perhaps only half a deck) there are similar signs at other area beaches.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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don...you ONLY have half a deck?
i ONLY have a medium deck...
look at this...for clarification
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz82fjXqFQ4
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
I just thought the sign was kind of cute.
It was flat on the ground, probably a victim of the hurricane, at the entrance to Juncalito Beach near Loreto. But it's where a fence was torn down
several times so maybe it wasn't the hurricane.
For several years Loreto trailer parks have complained about competition from free beaches. There have been unsuccessful attempts to fence off and
close this beach. The fee is the latest attempt, instituted and collected by the municipality of Loreto.
Actual parking and camping takes place above the federal zone, as far as I can tell. At Juncalito, rumor has it that the land around the "free" beach
is FONATUR's.
If I remember correctly (which I don't always do, having perhaps only half a deck) there are similar signs at other area beaches.
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Here's the secret, you park the car at the median high tide line and make your tent below the highest-high tide line, anyone who tries to charge you
is breaking federal law, which is a serious offense. Though you must be careful about ocean surge and extreme tides which are predictable.
Also, parking in an arroyo (after hurricane season) may not be restricted for charges by municipalities etc...
These attempts by individuals to restrict access to the beach and federal lands and charge people for access on federal beach zones are a critical
issue for Baja.
If a municipality would like to have a campground, they can and should develop one on municipal property, where they have a right to do so.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
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It is my understanding that anyone can purchase a concession in the fed zone for specific uses. If that is true then gnukid needs to revise his rule
book.
Half Deck, I think that sign is a treasure. I was going to suggest you change your avatar to....
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
It is my understanding that anyone can purchase a concession in the fed zone for specific uses. If that is true then gnukid needs to revise his rule
book.
Half Deck, I think that sign is a treasure. I was going to suggest you change your avatar to.... |
You do not purchase a concession for federal land. You pay a fee to in order to have first right to use it, however you may not restrict access under
any circumstance.
You may for example, offer a chair for fee or perhaps teach a sport, rent sports gear, have an organized game or event etc...
One method to restrict access which could be considered legal would be to have a concession to rent chairs and then put chairs everywhere, therefore
you restrict access, though legally anyone can sit on the ground without restriction or brig their own chair.
I am certainly no expert and I would never interfere, but the difference between personal property, city property or federal zone property is quite is
simple and clear. Those who attempt to restrict access are not standing on legal ground.
It isn't something easily resolved though when you want to go to the beach on Sunday afternoon.
Generally I would discourage paying an individual for access to federal zone lands where they have no right to restrict access.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Quite honestly Dennis is a matter that is easily considered by the Procuraduria Justica Del Estada Baja California Sur, all that is required is an
offender, a victim, two witnesses to testify and the case can reported and filed for prosecution. Of course, what Ministerial Police would file a
report against his own city representative or any vagrant for the offense of playing this game of demanding and collecting fees from Gringos.
Therefore, you would simply need to request a Federal Judge or prosecutor to file a demand against the MP and the MP Prosecutor for failing to
prosecute the case. Simple Dennis. 5-10 years later... case closed. Beach open!
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
gnukid
What do you do when the people have a concession on the federal land? |
To be clear, I am not a lawyer in Mexico or anywhere, I am just kid who goes to the beach with practical experience that probably anyone has.
So, if someone has a concession, depending on the type they have the right to sell services or conduct activities in their concession zone which is in
the federal zone though not in the median tide zone, they however can not restrict your access to pass. Of course, cars may be restricted from the
Federal Zone or not depending on the current trend or history of it being an access.
So, they can sell you some service, a chair, a drink, or stop you from selling a drink or a chair but they can not stop you from sitting on the ground
or realistically from setting up a tent on a temporary basis. You will therefore find people with tents on any beach without restriction for example
the Malecon in La Paz, Balandra, Cancun, Puerta Vallarta etc... You may not be able to pass with a car which should be parked in a nearby arroyo
access which is always legal though not always a good idea.
So you see, the arroyo is always our friend, though you must respect the arroyo and it's temporal qualities.
Back to Concessions, do not park your car in the concession nor make a permanent camp, I recall the temporary time period may be up to a few weeks,
not sure. If there is an issue, simply leave and come back.
That is why, when some big action occurs and the MP police and everyone says get off this federal zone land here you stupid campers, all you have to
do is leave, go camp somewhere else for a while and come back!
These personal, city, federal lines are critical to understand in any country for they provide many opportunities for camping temporarily if you
understand the law. City has no jurisdiction over Federal zones, and vice-versa.
Finally, if you understand about tides, you will find that camping within the median tide line is the most enjoyable when tides are averaging lower
tides, you will find the best moderate temperature in warm weather due to the affect of the ocean, and most economic and most eco-conscious place if
you respect the marine life, and pack all trash. Except the one time you make a mistake predicting the high tide and end up sleeping in a wet
sleeping bag or your camp is entirely washed away that's why I make a wall of stones or sleep on a table during high tides.
Here's another little secret, if its a cold night, and you have a fire in the tidal zone the tide will reduce the impact or danger of the hot coals
the next day because they will be washed away, or after a fire, take the coals and spread them in a thin layer and cover with sand, then put your bag
down and you will have a warm bed all night.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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"that's why I......sleep on a table during high tides"
HA!
Please post a photo.............
Very thorough GNU.
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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[Russ,
You're onto something here. Don's really a card, and the joker suits him. As for that face card, he knows that two heads are better than one.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Quite honestly Dennis
Simple Dennis. |
And you're addressing me why? What did I say?
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Jack Swords
Super Nomad
Posts: 1095
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Nipomo, CA/La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
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Since this thread is still civilized so far, I have a question Gnukid. Don't the marinas in La Paz have a concession? If so, they do restrict the
public from access don't they? Or, is the concession a special one that allows that? Thanks.
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