BajaNomad

This is how it begins

arrowhead - 12-21-2009 at 01:02 PM

This is how it begins. I've been saying all along that the next president of Mexico will be in league with the drug cartels and peace will be restored, at least on the surface. This article is an op-ed piece of why Mexico should withdraw from the war on drugs by a Mexican citizen. Jorge Castañeda was the Minister of Foreign Affairs under Vicente Fox. His father was also a Minister of Foreign Affairs. So, he has the credibility and credentials to be a candidate. More importantly, he started out his career as a member of the Mexican Communist Party and even wrote a biography of Che Gueverra. He moved to the center, and even ran for president in 2006.

His op-ed piece is all about why Mexico should just declare victory on the war on drugs and leave the cartels alone.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/740822#article

DENNIS - 12-21-2009 at 01:19 PM

Castañeda is cerebral elite in and out of Mexico. Too bad he hangs so far out on the left. With his brains and LO's popularity, they would be a tough team to keep up with. Just hope that doesn't happen.


Sorry...I didn't read what you linked but, I'm on my way.

[Edited on 12-21-2009 by DENNIS]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2009 at 01:22 PM

Very good Article and Accurate.

The war on Drugs cannot be stopped until the Demand in the States is First Stopped.

Can that happen?? Very unlikely.

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2009 at 01:23 PM

Thanks for the posted link. I think you are basically correct in what you say. Lopez Obrador came amazingly close last time. Come next presidential election, Mexico may well be suffering a big case of Calderon/ PAN fatigue.

I wouldn't emphasize Casteneda's early ties with the Communist Party because at this point in time, it is more or less irrelevant, except maybe for Mexico's version of Fox News. The man is an intellectual.

As was pointed out in his piece, who, with a rational mind really believes any so-called war on drugs is winnable? Suppose it depends on how one defines terms. After all, didn't we win the Viet Nam war?:no:

The whole war on drugs thing has become an economic engine that provides jobs for everything from boots on the ground all the way to manufacturers. I'd venture a guess that more money is spent on the war, than is made by the cartels.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2009 at 02:59 PM

One of the things we often over look Is as follows:

Who wants to put his life on line for a DOPER??

When the people get fed up with their Children getting killed by all of the DOPERS, DEALERS, SELLERS, GROWERS they will take things into there own Hands and start killing everyone connected.

People have gottin used to DOPERS and they just stay away from them and let them Die their slow Death, a little early most of the time

I do not beleive there is any Political Solution to this very Sad Problem.
If you really want to see a Sad Thing, go visit Cuilcian MX. It will turn your stomach.

Skeet

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 03:24 PM

Cuilcian, can't find it, where is it...:?::?:

tripledigitken - 12-21-2009 at 03:27 PM

Culiacan...........state of Sinaloa...........mainland of Mexico.....

Has been a center of drug activity for a long time.


Too bad too, as I have friends that used to go bird hunting there every year and raved about it!

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 03:29 PM

Culiacan vs Cuilcian.. googled it and no go... and your right about the bird shooting over there...:):)

Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2009 at 03:38 PM

Culiacan: You would not belive the paintins on every wall in Town.!

Just be very careful if you drive through, Don"t stop!

Skeet

JESSE - 12-21-2009 at 03:51 PM

Jorge Castañeda is an always has been out of touch with reality. His article seems logic, but he fails to understand the real situation on the streets of Mexico. Cartels where in many parts of Mexico free to do as they wanted, this is still true in many areas, but in many places, including Tijuana, you don't see the cartel gunmen drive around the city in broad daylight killing people anymore. What Calderon did was to postpone the takeover of many areas of Mexico by drug cartels, and he had no choice. Theres a big political aspect of this war that barely gets mentioned. The PRI is behind a lot of the cartels and is waging war against the president in order to win the next elections.

In my opinion, the only way out is to legalize it all, and have the state control the sale and distribution. While this wouldn't destroy the cartels completely, it would take a huge chunk of their finances away from them and make them more vulnerable to law enforcement.

Castañeda is just another guy criticizing things, and what we need is solutions, not different views about the same old problem.

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Culiacan: You would not belive the paintins on every wall in Town.!

Just be very careful if you drive through, Don"t stop!

Skeet


maybe time travel through a space time continuum ... take a guess at what this is





the answer... http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1827101_1742280,00.html thanks skeet, just learned something again today.. never too old

toneart - 12-21-2009 at 03:55 PM

As repugnant as Sleeping With The Enemy is, I have said all along that this is a very probable solution. At the time I was saying it, I thought I was all alone in conceiving this idea. You can look up my posts in the archives. (Arrowhead is good at this). Apparently my idea was so radical for this board that it didn't get any attention whatsoever, positive or negative. And yet I floated this idea several times in different strings that dealt with this topic.

My main reason twofold: The violence must end, and "The War on Drugs" is a stupid concept that is unwinnable.

All attitudes, be they moral, religious, medical or legal are certainly considerations, but are irrelevant.

So, although I hate to say "I told you so"...well, "I told you so"!:smug:

Won't work

Dave - 12-21-2009 at 04:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
In my opinion, the only way out is to legalize it all, and have the state control the sale and distribution. While this wouldn't destroy the cartels completely, it would take a huge chunk of their finances away from them and make them more vulnerable to law enforcement.


The cartels would never agree. :rolleyes:

mtgoat666 - 12-21-2009 at 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
When the people get fed up with their Children getting killed by all of the DOPERS, DEALERS, SELLERS, GROWERS they will take things into there own Hands and start killing everyone connected.

People have gottin used to DOPERS and they just stay away from them and let them Die their slow Death, a little early most of the time


??? skeeter. people die from booze, DWI, smoking -- and the states (US/Mexico) promote those vices, collect taxes, etc.
they only wage war on dope because they can't tax it.

Look Farther

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2009 at 04:37 PM

Quote:
??? skeeter. people die from booze, DWI, smoking -- and the states (US/Mexico) promote those vices, collect taxes, etc.
they only wage war on dope because they can't tax it.



You cannot overlook the tens of thousands of people making their living from this "war". They, and the folks who can make income from supporting the "war", and other peripheral turds will resist any efforts to legalize.

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2009 at 04:48 PM

You can put your laughing faces out there all you want. I still want to know why you refuse to engage in actual intellectual discourse, but rather choose to denigrate people. Are you nine years old?

mtgoat666 - 12-21-2009 at 04:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fender
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
and other peripheral turds will resist any efforts to legalize.


sounds like something from the texas pansyhandle !!:lol::lol:


fender,
didn't you get run off of this board last time you posted here under your various aliases? what was your name? some scum RE agent/bar fly from carolinas/mulege, i seem to recall you were

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2009 at 04:57 PM

Methinks you are on to something, goat.;D

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 05:00 PM

personal freedom, what an interesting concept... maybe we could start a Country based on that...:):)

fender - 12-21-2009 at 05:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

fender,
didn't you get run off of this board last time you posted here under your various aliases? what was your name? some scum RE agent/bar fly from carolinas/mulege, i seem to recall you were


negative batgirl. just a BCS resident willing to call sheeple out on their BS.

k-rico - 12-21-2009 at 05:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
As repugnant as Sleeping With The Enemy is, I have said all along that this is a very probable solution. At the time I was saying it, I thought I was all alone in conceiving this idea. You can look up my posts in the archives. (Arrowhead is good at this). Apparently my idea was so radical for this board that it didn't get any attention whatsoever, positive or negative. And yet I floated this idea several times in different strings that dealt with this topic.

My main reason twofold: The violence must end, and "The War on Drugs" is a stupid concept that is unwinnable.

All attitudes, be they moral, religious, medical or legal are certainly considerations, but are irrelevant.

So, although I hate to say "I told you so"...well, "I told you so"!:smug:


Absolutely, drugs aren't going away. What? Nixon declared the war on drugs 40 years ago?

You're not alone. I think most Mexicans agree with you and many Americans in the states that border Mexico. Yahoos from Iowa probably love the war.

Restore the balance of power between the cartels and let the drugs flow to the consumers.

Sort of a quasi-legalization. Much easier and quicker to put into effect than legalization.

Maybe, but

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2009 at 05:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
personal freedom, what an interesting concept... maybe we could start a Country based on that...:):)


It might have succeeded a couple of hundred years ago. Population increases on a massive scale, combined with an ever increasing access to instant media have created a Darwinian environment where it has become every man (person) for themselves, but not in the best sense. Rather, how we can scam one another.

[Edited on 12-22-2009 by Bajahowodd]

oldlady - 12-21-2009 at 05:31 PM

What argument(s) could be stronger in support of legalizing drugs than that of personal freedom?
Darwinian theory would support that those who can use drugs intelligently will survive and those that don't will either OD outright or degrade over time toward early demise.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2009 at 05:38 PM

Oldlady: The agrument that it is personal Freedom is fine, BUY What about the Thousands of CHILDREN every year that are killed by those Scummy Mind Altering Drugs taken by someone who drives a Car???

Is the socalled Freedom to take DOPE much more Precious than the Life of a Child??

Just look at the History of DOPE users. They are of the Weak part of Society, they cannot get close to beating the Non-users. They are the Scaredy CAts of our Society. They cannot accept Reality. They are the PARSITES of the Culture!!

oldlady - 12-21-2009 at 05:52 PM

Skeet, children are killed every year by irresponsibile adults. Doesn't make it acceptable. Children are also victims of this drug war and many die as a result. Thousands of children grow up in neighborhoods virtual prisoners of drug gangs.

The boundary of the freedom to do anything is the point at which exercising that freedom could harm someone else. Penalties for going beyond that boundary while using drugs or alcohol whether it be driving or anything else should be severe, more so than they are in most states.

oldlady - 12-21-2009 at 06:09 PM

They know that and they do.

DENNIS - 12-21-2009 at 06:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldlady
They know that and they do.


Let me in...please.

DENNIS - 12-21-2009 at 07:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Cartels where in many parts of Mexico free to do as they wanted, this is still true in many areas, but in many places, including Tijuana, you don't see the cartel gunmen drive around the city in broad daylight killing people anymore. What Calderon did was to postpone the takeover of many areas of Mexico by drug cartels, and he had no choice. Theres a big political aspect of this war that barely gets mentioned. The PRI is behind a lot of the cartels and is waging war against the president in order to win the next elections.



How did it all start? Wasn't it with De la Madrid inheriting a broke country and sending his boy, Díaz Bartlet, to the cartels with an offer that, if they left there money in Mexico, they would be left alone? Yes, it was.
A presidential act without checks and balances.
The cartels were left to fester and grow to the point that, when their presence was huge, their demands were undeniable.
The a-hole president who gave them free rein forgot when to tighten the leash and the animal ends up controling the trainer.
That is Mexico today.

What now? Isolate Mexico from the world business community. Purge it of it's infection. Hunt and kill the enemy.

All of that would be effective but for the out of control United States. That's where "Purge and Kill" needs to begin.

New Bill of Rights. New weapons. New tomorrow.



[Edited on 12-22-2009 by DENNIS]

Mexicorn - 12-21-2009 at 07:10 PM

Culican- anyone dare to post picture of the Shrine of "Jesus Malverde?"

DENNIS - 12-21-2009 at 07:13 PM

http://media.photobucket.com/image/jesus%20malverde/eu0688/m...

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 07:24 PM

another aspect to this story which should be considered, was the void which was left when the U.S. and the Columbian government took out pablo escobar and the medellin cartel a few years back..

mexico has always supplied pot, black tar heroin and some other drugs to the united states.. mostly through the mexican mafia.. but, the change up in columbia left a big opening for a lot of folks for the distribution into the states..

but the really big money was the "coke" ..... and apparently still is... very popular with many americans

not sure how "the economic down turn" has impacted the trade... to far removed from things to really have any idea what is really going on.. other than "boots on the ground" around where i'm staying..

the other night we had movement around the perimeter.. military folks running around most of the night.. they had been down the road just the night before and rousted a bunch of "americano's" in the cantamar area.. while looking for someone..

me, i stayed low and didn't look out any windows... not much you can do when they are moving all around you.. didn't think it was wise to "go outside and ask them what they were doing" :):)

[Edited on 12-22-2009 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 12-22-2009 by wessongroup]

DENNIS - 12-21-2009 at 07:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
me, i stayed low and didn't look out any windows...


Makes it hard to be a credible reporter, doesn't it.

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 07:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
me, i stayed low and didn't look out any windows...


Makes it hard to be a credible reporter, doesn't it.


was never my intent... i'm here for a vacation.. not fill in duty for the local news station.. and no i don't want anyone coming by for an interview... i forget everything just a moment ago.. :):)

Nope

Dave - 12-21-2009 at 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
they had been down the road just the night before and rousted a bunch of "americano's" in cantamar.. while looking for someone..


The military was never in Cantamar rousting Gringos, or anyone else.

wessongroup - 12-21-2009 at 08:52 PM

i have changed the statement to the "cantamar area".. which is what i meant to say... the site which was in fact searched was north of cantamar across the bridge about 1/3 mile.. the rose ranch.. but, then most folks don't have any idea where rose ranch is located, including me....:):)

Rose Ranch?

Dave - 12-21-2009 at 09:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
i have changed the statement to the "cantamar area".. which is what i meant to say... the site which was in fact searched was north of cantamar across the bridge about 1/3 mile.. the rose ranch.. but, then most folks don't have any idea where rose ranch is located, including me....:):)


You mean Rancho Reynoso?

You mentioned you lived just up the road. Where's that?

wessongroup - 12-22-2009 at 08:46 AM

Yes, Rancho Reynoso/El Pescador.. would add that the second day down in October, saw a "cigarette" boat making it's way from La Salina to Rosarito across Descanso Bay at about 100 mph.. the very next day there was a Mexican naval vessel anchored out front of where we were at that time.. La Mission. And for the next few days there were armed troops in humv's with 50's going up and down the beach. They were also checking any places which they "thought" might afford one "cover". There we also air strikes, with helicopters into La Salina, can say about anything else, La Salina is down wind and I could not make out any firing.. but the fourth helicopter was "med" marked.. there has been a lot of movement in the past month in a half from south of Rosarito down to Primo Tapia.. check points moved, armed patrols walking on the old road in teams of 5-6, armed with armor and back up close by with 50 cal..

Don't claim to know everything but do know what I see and hear... we are in the suck right around here

Seems to be the staging area for the next to the last leg getting stuff into the States, at least that is the way it appears to me..

I'm keeping low, and know that s*** happens... but, we still go to Primo for food, water, propane many other things, also go to Rosarito a couple of times a week too. But, I'm finding that Primo has just about everything you need.. plus some great places to eat.. as does El Pescador.. still like their "chicken frahitas"

Right now it's spitting outside, with wind.. but appears to be breaking up to some degree.. agree with "we need the rain".. big time!!!