BajaNomad - Cutting a block wall

Cutting a block wall

Santiago - 12-28-2009 at 02:57 PM

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I'm going to put a 6068 sliding glass door where the 4030 window is, centered below the V-shape above. Eventually this stepped area that is filled with cardon strips will be glass block (some weight). The deck/roof load is NOT on this wall as the joists run in the same direction as this wall.
I've never worked with block and my question is this: how would you cut the block? I have a worm-drive skill saw and I was going to use a 7-1/4" masonry blade and make cuts on the exterior and interior sides of the wall. But I also have a 4" angle grinder and I could use that.
1. Which is best?
2. Will use some used 6X6 PT as header and king studs. This seem reasonable?
3. Here's the tricky part: can I make the 2 side cuts and one vertical cut at the top and remove the entire 7'X7' at one time or should I do it in two 3.5'X7'sections; then remove one section and brace the top and then remove the other? There is very little weight above the window at this time.

[Edited on 12-28-2009 by Santiago]

Debra - 12-28-2009 at 03:09 PM

Won't that glass block make it that much more hot for sleeping up there in the summer (If you do that) Just a thought........

Your place is looking great BTW, glad to hear you are almost finished, you know where you can start next when you get bored right? :biggrin:

capt. mike - 12-28-2009 at 03:34 PM

can you borrow or rent a gas powered makita with a carbide mas blade, aka cut off saw.

that's what i'd get, wear goggles.
we used one to make all the changes to the door and windows locations at the Lopez Mateo Flying Sams clinic when we did a make over to that old CMU school building.
cuts like butter.

Santiago - 12-28-2009 at 03:40 PM

Mike: I might be able to get one. You think making one big 7' wide cut is OK? I feel a little funny about making the cuts and then beating on the blocks with a sledge and then having the blocks above fall in.

Ken Bondy - 12-28-2009 at 03:47 PM

This is probably a dumb question, but there are literally hundreds of US companies, big and small, that specialize in cutting and coring concrete and masonry. They do it with diamond sawblades/cores and specialized saws/drills. Any chance there is anyone with that type of equipment where you are? You are describing some pretty intricate work, I am assuming you have 8" CMU (concrete masonry units), if so the 7'x7' section is going to weigh more than 4,000 pounds if it is fully grouted. You prepared to handle that?

comitan - 12-28-2009 at 03:50 PM

If you cut the opening and install the patio door where you plaster to fill to the door, it will crack later, the best way is to knock it out and refill the much greater area with plaster. The reason is you fill to a straight cut edge you don't have a good surface for the plaster, when you plaster to a jagged edge you have a lot more area for the plaster to stick. Hope I'm clear.

DENNIS - 12-28-2009 at 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
how would you cut the block? I have a worm-drive skill saw and I was going to use a 7-1/4" masonry blade and make cuts on the exterior and interior sides of the wall. But I also have a 4" angle grinder and I could use that.
1. Which is best?
2. Will use some used 6X6 PT as header and king studs. This seem reasonable?
3. Here's the tricky part: can I make the 2 side cuts and one vertical cut at the top and remove the entire 7'X7' at one time or should I do it in two 3.5'X7'sections; then remove one section and brace the top and then remove the other? There is very little weight above the window at this time.

You'll probably end up using both those saws with diamond blades. Carbide and concrete don't mix well.
Do you know what kind of header is over the existing window? If it's concrete and steel, you have your work cut out for you. You can hope it's wood. Whatever it is, it's holding up all the weight over the opening, the block wall, and according to the foto, there's a lot of that. It needs to be supported if you remove the header.

DENNIS - 12-28-2009 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
if it is fully grouted.

My guess is that it wouldn't be solid based on Mexico building methods. Bond beams, columns and maybe headers only.

Russ - 12-28-2009 at 04:13 PM

Easy... mostly. You can cut both inside and out but not really necessary. You can just bust out the block with a sledge since you'll want the opening a little bigger than your frame. 4x material will be strong enough but I'd go at least a wide as the walls. Cement the rough opening and put 3 J bolts on each side and two for the header. I'd tar the inside of each member to help detour bugs. The sill has to be cement to carry the load so take your time with that and make it's wider and stronger than the wood frame (rebar & or wire). Just to be on the safe side support the roof until you have your frames set.

Russ - 12-28-2009 at 04:24 PM

The header over the windows on my place are at the same height as the door and they poured a beam all the way around at that height. If that's the case you could just use 2x to frame with. Maybe no header.

k-rico - 12-28-2009 at 04:39 PM

Won't rebar be a problem?

If you hit some, how do you cut that stuff?

Also, isn't a header of some sort needed across the full span of the opening, and then some? Would a 4x6 wood beam work?

Ken Bondy - 12-28-2009 at 04:47 PM

Santiago: Just some unsolicited advice from an old structural engineer: The "header" you and others are talking about (also commonly called a "lintel") is a beam that spans across your new opening and supports all the wall weight above it, including the weight of the wall and any tributary floor and roof loads that span to the wall. I realize that your deck/roof joists run parallel to the wall, nonetheless the wall will pick up some small tributary deck/roof loads. Make sure that your new lintel can handle that load with the new 7'+ span. If you are not comfortable designing and building that lintel yourself, have someone with experience look at it. It will ruin your whole weekend if your new lintel collapses into the new opening.

wessongroup - 12-28-2009 at 05:09 PM

Hey, which ever way you go, take pictures.. of what you do, have seen the before, would like to see the after.... and what you used and the steps you take.. someone else could use the "experience" gained from your work..... should open the place up a bit.. good luck.. these are fun projects, at least I used to like them...

I'm with Russ, it shouldn't be too bad... doesn't look like a lot of wall and roof, but I'm here and your there...

[Edited on 12-29-2009 by wessongroup]

Santiago - 12-28-2009 at 05:35 PM

Thanks guys:
Ken: I have some rough 6X6 pressure treated DF. I was going to use that as the new header and support with same 6X6 on each side. In other words, my rough opening in the block would be 12" wider than the door and 6" taller.
However, I think Russ may have hit on something. The cabin was built using 16" square block columns at the 4 corners of a 11'X22' rectangle. I seem to recall my landlord saying once that the header above the kitchen door (not in this photo) goes all the way around the structure and the block below is simply fill.
And no, I'm not prepared to deal with 4000 pounds. :wow:

Diver - 12-28-2009 at 05:46 PM

Here are my thoughts;

1. Measure the height from the inside slab to the top of the window opening. Most sliders require 80 - 80 1/2". Check the slider you are planning to use; some manufacturers have slightly differing heights. If the height is sufficient then you are WAY ahead of the game.
If not, you would have to remove part of the actual header in which case you would want to remove more; enough for a new wood header above the current opening. If this is the case, I would punt and go with a 3' wide, hinged glass door cut to your opening height.

2. If #1 above was easy, start by cutting the top at bith sides at the currect height with a diamond blade in a worm drive (if you use a wet blade, you will have to water the area while cutting).

3. Make the vertical cuts where you want them, on both sides all the way to the top cut. Use a small hand sledge or better yet, an electric chipping hammer or rotohammer. As you chip, you may run into rebar or wire cages that can be cut with a sawzalll or angle grinder. Lay some plywood to protect the inside floor and hammer from the inside if possible.

If you remove reinforcing, you will probably want to make some effort to replace the "effect" of the reinforcing. Once the wall sections are removed, chip out the inside webs of the vertical blocks on each side of the opening enough to install a #4 rebar, vertically into this space and grout it to a smooth opening. You should install at least 3 anchors on each side of the openiing (lags with washers or 1/2" J-bolts) to hold the 2x min. sub-frame.
A similar method can be used of the header if it is not filled with grout; otherwise, fill what you can, add rebar where you can, and rotohammer some anchors to hold your head framing.
If you immerdiately install the pressure-treated sub-frame, you can brace it until the mortar dries to ensure a good fit. If you want to waterproof before stucco, try "RedGuard" or similar liquid tile underlayment waterproofer.

Make sure to use a heavy bead of urethane caulk under either door upon installation to avoid leaks.

The more I think wbout it, the more I think I would go for the 3' wide glass door.

Good Luck !!
.

dtbushpilot - 12-28-2009 at 09:11 PM

Quote:

If you are determined to do it yourself get a good gas-powered rotary saw with a masonry blade and go balls to the wall.

Be sure to keep them away from the rotating saw blade :lol:

....dt

msawin - 12-28-2009 at 09:22 PM

Santiago,
plan ahead. Cut back to the width of the cardon. floor to roof. You have enough width for mason / rebar jambs ,header. Go for a 6/10 height and you can fly with a 6/8 0r 6/9 or 6/10 height door. easy in fill 0n head. do a top header at the roof line. mason with steel rebar. you can get ,we sell a block frame aluminum window that excepts vinyl block or glass block. many colors and you can make a pattern with the block patterns available. you can get venting block windows also. casement and awning style..also you can get an aluiminum vinyl block window custom height if you do a slider above.. great for venting. we have done many of these above tubs in homes..size of the block windows is based on the the block size. you can not believe how much heat comes thru the block windows if that is an issue. I'll see if I can attach a photo of a couple of glass block windows we used in our Baja spot..

marty

Santiago - 12-28-2009 at 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msawin
Santiago,
plan ahead. Cut back to the width of the cardon. floor to roof. You have enough width for mason / rebar jambs ,header. Go for a 6/10 height and you can fly with a 6/8 0r 6/9 or 6/10 height door. easy in fill 0n head. do a top header at the roof line. mason with steel rebar. you can get ,we sell a block frame aluminum window that excepts vinyl block or glass block. many colors and you can make a pattern with the block patterns available. you can get venting block windows also. casement and awning style..also you can get an aluiminum vinyl block window custom height if you do a slider above.. great for venting. we have done many of these above tubs in homes..size of the block windows is based on the the block size. you can not believe how much heat comes thru the block windows if that is an issue. I'll see if I can attach a photo of a couple of glass block windows we used in our Baja spot..

marty

Good points: I was thinking of doing just that - remove all the block from the top of the cordons down to the bottom, put the header at the top and fill in - did not think of heat build up with the glass block and as this wall gets the afternoon sun it would be a killer. Will need to re-think that point. I already have the blocks thru Craig's List; 8X8X4.

oladulce - 12-29-2009 at 07:54 AM

Yes, photos please. And what did you decide to do with your front door Santiago? Have you tackled that project yet?

shari - 12-29-2009 at 07:59 AM

When we wanted our back door and big windows...it was pretty crazy to watch juan swing that sledgehammer...kinda looked like he was enjoying it too...hmmm. I was surprised how quick it got knocked down and makes much less dust...look forward to the pics amigo.

wessongroup - 12-30-2009 at 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
When we wanted our back door and big windows...it was pretty crazy to watch juan swing that sledgehammer...kinda looked like he was enjoying it too...hmmm. I was surprised how quick it got knocked down and makes much less dust...look forward to the pics amigo.

You bet tearing it up is a lot of fun... taking care of it.. well that's another story

Wear a DUSTMASK!!

smlslikfish - 12-30-2009 at 08:19 AM

Santiago - 12-30-2009 at 09:12 AM

Recieved a missive from Abraham (landlord) and darn if he couldn't remember if the bond beam ran just above the window or across the entire wall but he thinks the entire wall. Glad to see becoming a nuevo abuelo has addled his memory, heh.

true glass block

msawin - 12-30-2009 at 07:45 PM

here is a photo of our west facing block window... One more straight across room facing our parked boat..

ok i'll see if it works with the link. new to it but with David's help I'm getting better........

[Edited on 12-31-2009 by msawin]

[Edited on 12-31-2009 by msawin]

msawin - 12-30-2009 at 08:07 PM

yes.. I did it again... The peak of the red block, $25.00 whole sale each. Has the rise of the mountains to the west. The "giagantis range" with mision San Ferancisco Javier staight up the hill from us...

again alot of heat comes thru these..

marty

msawin - 12-30-2009 at 08:10 PM

Oh... thats #80 sunscreen up on the wall.. it is priceless. the best performance you can buy.....

Packoderm - 12-30-2009 at 08:40 PM

It's fun to see an updated photo of Camp Gecko. I remember that second row of cabins.

Santiago - 12-30-2009 at 10:25 PM

Pack: this is my cabin back in the day. None of the planting survived - I'm not sure why. After I finish my construction I hope to get it back to this with plants - maybe with the auto watering systems as suggested in earlier posts. Funny thing is - the carpet is still there. ha

Packoderm - 12-30-2009 at 11:02 PM

I've stayed in each of the three 2nd row cabins, the orange cabin twice, several of the $15 small cabins, and one of the deluxe cabins by Beach Bobs. The orange cabin is heaven.