Construction in Bahia de Las Animas??

Ask DK the "promoter". Where else can you get panoramic views of sensitive yet desirable coastal places.

I hear there is fresh water there. Golf anyone??

Ok then.... nevermind

Yah, this is getting old... they were some old rock walls and circles that someone found in 1966 and thought they could be connected to a proposed mission on a 1757 map. I talked by phone to the head archeologist who has published research papers on the area... NOTHING UNIQUE (or fragile)...

It was special to Choral Pepper that I would find the site, and with your help (and blessing to do so) I published the trip here and on Discover Baja, with credit to YOU (with the name you asked me to use) for showing me what you saw on Google Earth... that indeed turned out to be the site I had made several searches for and nobody in the Erle Stanley Gardner party could remember where it was.

So Corky, let it go... there are many mystery walls in Baja. You helped me find ONE that was special to me, now you have some need to make it something else entirely.

The story and photos can be seen on my site: http://vivabaja.com/109

This wall is easily seen by anyone at Las Animas or from the road to Las Animas if they look towards the hill, 2 miles from the beach.

You have since found other walls and keeping them secret... for whatever purpose that has, so you can enjoy them and call them your secret walls. They are probably known by others, and they will still be there for hundreds of years... just like the points on the Pacific side of Baja... If it makes you happy to not tell anyone, then great. Just because it isn't on Baja Nomad doesn't mean others don't already know!

No, not the case... You also need a life on Nomad beyond picking on me... Let's play fair, okay?: Only pick on me whenever I pick on you, okay Diver... That should be ... ummm, let's see... oh yah, NEVER!

A bit over-sensitive tonight ?

I am not aware of the background so only asked the question.
I know you wouldn't deny that you delete your posts at times.
A simple "No, not this time." would have been fine.

We've been through the "get a life" thing before and you lost.
I think that counts as an attack; what do you think ?
I could post quotes of you picking on me in the past but you've probably deleted them already.
.

David please! You know darn well that even if you had discovered artifacts there you would still downplay it and still post all about where how and who, you can't help yourself. Just like you do with your right-wing crap.

Truth is you don't really know if that old wall holds historical significance or not. Do you?

Diver, David is always right according to him.

Who said there is no water there, David?



btw, those rocks all over Baja with art on them are just rocks.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja Quote: Originally posted by Diver Ah, thanks for the explanation DK. I don't often follow the historical posts so I probably missed it - not really my thing. David please! You know darn well that even if you had discovered artifacts there you would still downplay it and still post all about where how and who, you can't help yourself. Just like you do with your right-wing crap. Truth is you don't really know if that old wall holds historical significance or not. Do you? Diver, David is always right according to him. Who said there is no water there, David? btw, those rocks all over Baja with art on them are just rocks.

It has been an interesting couple of days for DK. Must have something to do with the rain.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja Quote: Originally posted by Diver Ah, thanks for the explanation DK. I don't often follow the historical posts so I probably missed it - not really my thing. David please! You know darn well that even if you had discovered artifacts there you would still downplay it and still post all about where how and who, you can't help yourself. Just like you do with your right-wing crap. Truth is you don't really know if that old wall holds historical significance or not. Do you? Diver, David is always right according to him. Who said there is no water there, David? btw, those rocks all over Baja with art on them are just rocks.

Wow, this does get wearisome------------I can testify that David K is 100% correct on this matter, and I KNOW that David has talked to the Lead Archaeologist for this area as he is a personal aquaintenance of mine, and I have talked with him on this specific subject many times, and worked with him for many years. I spent my entire career involved with, and enforcing archaeological laws (what few there are) in addition to other "resource" laws as a Ranger, and can say that in my opinion what David is doing, and has done, with his promotions and posts is exactly what I would be doing if I had the knowledge that David does. I applaud his efforts and consider him invaluable to this NOMADS board.

This constant criticism of the good work that David does really dismays me, and is beyond my understanding.

Barry

dk, sometimes you blather nonsense

bite me

Fair enough Barry. Could you get that reputable and responsible fellow you know to join us and let us all know here that he has studied and deemed that spot "archelogically insignificant".

I would feel much more comfortable knowing that INAH and the Mexican archealogical society and the American research scientist(s) have done a through survey and evaluations of that particular site.

I have seen other papers and maps detailing other known sites in the area. Remember it wasn't I who proposed it was an ancient wall. Wasn't it one of your mentors David?

I was shocked when you (along with some others)
decided that it was of no importance. Especially since the type and age of the structure appeared old, oddly designed and suspiciously placed. You pushed those ideas on everyone. I'm just here to help support you actually because I still believe all those ideas and notions you had about the place.
They seem(ed) plausible to me.

So you get me all excited about the "Lost Mission" then you claim it's nothing and protest my attempt(s) to know more. I still feel the place has merit and should be professionally scoped out. Please direct me to the source of your proclamation and a science paper or study to back it up.

That isn't too much to offer since you are so adament about the whole thing. I just need to be satisfied that your current determination holds water.

I wouldn't go knocking down those walls if they were truely important would you?

We are not enemies David, paz.

FYI Barry I have appreciated much of David' work and have complimented him many times over the years, you should know that.

Thanks in advance

Thanks for the er, compliment LYM? I have a sister named Lynn.

So very true though, those Canucks ruin every neighborhood! JOKE!

......and welcome Oceanus and yourselves.!

.......and did you mean like "neighbors" to the north or are you a Canucklian as well?



[Edited on 2-11-2010 by Sharksbaja]

now that's funny!!

Quote:

Originally posted by David K bite me

tell it how it is.

i knew you had it in you DK!

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja Thanks for the er, compliment LYM? I have a sister named Lynn. So very true though, those Canucks ruin every neighborhood! JOKE! ......and welcome Oceanus and yourselves.! .......and did you mean like "neighbors" to the north or are you a Canucklian as well? [Edited on 2-11-2010 by Sharksbaja]

Marv, I talked to you in person last year regarding the area since I consider you the Nomad expert on Las Animas... But, perhaps for the rest of the gang... if you care to answer one or both of these?

1) What is the water source for the few locals who live there... and they may be seasonal residents, correct?

2) Is it an educational benefit to show other people/ students the walls there so they can ponder their purpose and perhaps discover why they were built or who built them. OR, should nobody but a few elites know they exist, and if people see the wall and ask to look at it, should we tell them no, it is too fragile a rock wall for you to get any closer?

You are a professional educator, a long time visitor to Las Animas, and a Baja buff... Your opinion matters.

Muchas Gracias!

Wouldn't this happen to the publicized wall left unattended?

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano

Quote:

Originally posted by David K Quote: Originally posted by marv sherrill way to hijack a thread everyone..... Marv, I talked to you in person last year regarding the area since I consider you the Nomad expert on Las Animas... But, perhaps for the rest of the gang... if you care to answer one or both of these? 1) What is the water source for the few locals who live there... and they may be seasonal residents, correct? 2) Is it an educational benefit to show other people/ students the walls there so they can ponder their purpose and perhaps discover why they were built or who built them. OR, should nobody but a few elites know they exist, and if people see the wall and ask to look at it, should we tell them no, it is too fragile a rock wall for you to get any closer? You are a professional educator, a long time visitor to Las Animas, and a Baja buff... Your opinion matters. Muchas Gracias!

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja Quote: Originally posted by David K Quote: Originally posted by marv sherrill way to hijack a thread everyone..... Marv, I talked to you in person last year regarding the area since I consider you the Nomad expert on Las Animas... But, perhaps for the rest of the gang... if you care to answer one or both of these? 1) What is the water source for the few locals who live there... and they may be seasonal residents, correct? 2) Is it an educational benefit to show other people/ students the walls there so they can ponder their purpose and perhaps discover why they were built or who built them. OR, should nobody but a few elites know they exist, and if people see the wall and ask to look at it, should we tell them no, it is too fragile a rock wall for you to get any closer? You are a professional educator, a long time visitor to Las Animas, and a Baja buff... Your opinion matters. Muchas Gracias! Wait a sec! I never inferred any of that elite stuff. I only wanted to make sure you were acting as a prudent visitor by not promoting a potentially important site. You have determined there is nothing of significance mainly because you spent a couple hours there. I contest your authority on the place, sorry. You also make the claim that it isn't because of what a professor said. I hope that his determination was based upon actual science or was it of conjecture. The fact that you made that pronouncement so shortly after my visual and your physical discovery of the plateau made me thinkj that no actual ground study was done after the discovery. That is what iI would like to know. Can I assume that there hasn't been or if there was point me to it so I won't keep crawling up yer arse every time the place is mentioned. BTW If you look closely with Google Earth you will see an area that has much more green growth than the surrounding features. That usually occurs when subsurface water is available. It would be terrible to see that bay developed.

Corky, it is some walls, some rock circles, a scraggly palm tree and it is right on the road to Bahia Las Animas that anyone can see... and it looked the same 43 years after the first photos were PUBLISHED in 1966.

Now, I can only presume that the site is known or not considered special enough to examine more. That is after I talked with Dr. Ritter who has published papers on Las Animas archeology sites. INAH is way understaffed and financed to even think of them doing anything with so many known sites left unprotected (like many missions in Baja). If this was an established mission site, being rock and not adobe makes it about as protected as it will ever be.

I reported the details on Nomad and Discover Baja because it is interesting to some Baja fans... and because Choral Pepper was so well liked by her readers, it was some closure to her spirit of adventure and wanting to go back there. There is no harm that can come to the site from any Baja Nomads. The damage will come from locals, should they want to build houses on that hill... and keeping my story off the Internet won't have any affect on that... it will only deny a few more from enjoying an interesting place before it is destroyed. It is too interesting to people like us to not share.

Because it isn't on the bay, I doubt if anything will happen there for hundreds of years. Have you even gone there since I went? In fact, I know of two Nomads that planned to visit it but at the last moment, plans changed (Neal Johns and Phil C). It just isn't that big of a magnet to most. even as much as I put into the story or your bringing it back up over and over.

DESERT MAGAZINE, JULY 1966:



2009:





Really, is this little wall worth so much fuss?



Have a great day Corky and everyone else!

David we already have read this stuff over and over. Since it's "just" a rock wall that is unimportant please tell us how old it is and who built it. Thanks and have a happy Valentines Day.

Tag......your it.....

[Edited on 2-12-2010 by Sharksbaja]

Yeah, can't wait for the chain-link fences to go up.


Salim?? Is he a Saudi Mexican? That would be perfect!!! They know how to ruin a desert.

It all leads me to believe Davids' thoughts are true. No one seems to give a darn and I guess haven't taken the initiative to prove the point one way or another save for Nomad Barry. Thanks Barry for involving your revelant friend.
I'm still waiting for his confirming report.

Davids determination seems based upon opinion rather than actual hard scientific evaluation however, hence my unrelenting diatribe.

No biggie, just another b-tchen' bahia I worry about is that so wrong????

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja It all leads me to believe Davids' thoughts are true. No one seems to give a darn and I guess haven't taken the initiative to prove the point one way or another save for Nomad Barry. Thanks Barry for involving your revelant friend. I'm still waiting for his confirming report. Davids determination seems based upon opinion rather than actual hard scientific evaluation however, hence my unrelenting diatribe. No biggie, just another b-tchen' bahia I worry about is that so wrong????

now that dk has published location, looters are knowledgeable of location and will go and dig pits, pillage, etc.

this site is a good example of why you should not post site info if you care about site. if you let dk and others blog about it, well, it won't be a secret anymore, and carlos slim may come in his yacht and build a condo complex and resort on site

thanks for ruining BOLA, dk

Yah, that's me ruining BOLA? Just where is BO-LA anyway?

The rock wall is 35 miles from Bahia de los Angeles (L.A. Bay, I never say BOLA)... but you have never been off the pavement in a motorized vehicle anyway, you walk everywhere right?

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666 .............thanks for ruining BOLA, dk

Quote:

Originally posted by David K Yah, that's me ruining BOLA? Just where is BO-LA anyway? The rock wall is 35 miles from Bahia de los Angeles (L.A. Bay, I never say BOLA)... but you have never been off the pavement in a motorized vehicle anyway, you walk everywhere right?

i call that whole area bola. is not important what you, me or anyone calls it.

yes, i bike or hike when road ends. i am not into ruining desert...

dk, i don't expect you to appreciate preservation of artifacts or the desert,... fully expect you to rip/shred a new road and blog about it on facey-space

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666 Quote: Originally posted by David K Yah, that's me ruining BOLA? Just where is BO-LA anyway? The rock wall is 35 miles from Bahia de los Angeles (L.A. Bay, I never say BOLA)... but you have never been off the pavement in a motorized vehicle anyway, you walk everywhere right? i call that whole area bola. is not important what you, me or anyone calls it. yes, i bike or hike when road ends. i am not into ruining desert... dk, i don't expect you to appreciate preservation of artifacts or the desert,... fully expect you to rip/shred a new road and blog about it on facey-space

You have no idea since you selectivly do not read about my trips... I never support cross country driving. Baja already has roads to everywhere. Take your beef to the Mexican people who open new roads across the desert... and 'ruin' it, as you say.

I do more to open awareness of important 'desert' locations and that have more chance of keeping someplace preserved than you ever will by all your coplaining on things you do not know. Don't take my word for it, experts on desert ecology like Barry A. and Jack Swords (my partner on the Baja Missions identification project) are the ones.

Your walking cross-country could do more harm than my driving on an established road, anyday!

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja It all leads me to believe Davids' thoughts are true. No one seems to give a darn and I guess haven't taken the initiative to prove the point one way or another save for Nomad Barry. Thanks Barry for involving your revelant friend. I'm still waiting for his confirming report. Davids determination seems based upon opinion rather than actual hard scientific evaluation however, hence my unrelenting diatribe. No biggie, just another b-tchen' bahia I worry about is that so wrong????

Sharks------

In order for you to help put your mind at rest over this antiguities situation at Animas, I suggest you Google "Dr. Eric Ritter" to gain his personal e-mail address and telephone number, and then Google "Dr. Eric Ritter Baja California" in order for you to gain some understanding of his credentials in Baja CA archaeology.

Your concern over all this is understandable, and even admirable, but you don't seem to grant much credibility or trust in members of this NOMADS board (and that too is probably understandable!?!?!? )

Barry

As Corky and others know, it was Dr. Ritter who I called and discussed the site, if it was significant or not and if it could have a Jesuit connection. A great big thank you to Barry for connecting Eric Ritter and I together by phone! I don't think there is a better archeologist available on this area.

Just as reported in his papers, there are MANY such sites in that area, so it is not significant. He could not be sure if there was or was not a mission connection, but he did forward my photos and findings to Dr. Michael Mathes... considered the current leading mission expert on Baja California.

I also sent Dr. Mathes an email with the web page of the site http://vivabaja.com/109 and have not heard back from him in the past year since. Knowing Dr. Mathes' fealings about Choral Pepper's lost mission chapters, I believe he dismissed our Jesuit connection with the Las Animas site for Santa Maria Magdalena.

So, as for follow up on the site, I think I did as much as possible to be sure it wasn't soooo fragile that telling you Baja fans about what we saw there. We saw nothing fragile and the lead area archeologist was not alarmed or concerned about the site being published.

Case closed?

You guys are killing me. Marv answered the original question. The rest of you are talking about a completely different place.



We used to camp on Isla Pescador back in college days 1980s when nothing was there on the other shore other than shark shacks.

Fermin Smith owned that portion of the mainland, not the island. He built the place up from shark shacks to the rooms and main palapa.

Carlos Slim owns it now and has his own plans for the place.

Pescador is still a beautiful place with a little island and as of last summer we could still anchor our panga there and hang out.

Time will tell what happens with that area. The Pescador-Las Animas that was the original question, NOT the other Las Animas wall drama that has hijacked this thread.

If you all want to continue your b.s. it would be great if you started another thread, or found the one that has been run over too many times before and take it up once again there.

Thanks,

P<*)))>{

[Edited on 15-2-2010 by Paulina]

Sheesh David I did not put words in your mouth. You have continuely downplayed any significance it might have.

I understand that Dr. Ritter is an expert in his field and there have been a number of field trips that have yielded historically important sites in the general area. Isn't that why the place is suspect?

That is exactly why I questioned your findings. Like I said before, I won't question his expertise. You showed him a few photos a talked to him. I want to know if he's actually checked the site out personally.

Can we agree that it is old? How old?

Was it built by the natives or ?

What was it's function?

What types of artifacts have been catalogued?


These are the questions that require a simple answer. I would think a prudent person would actually investigate than draw simple conclusions.

Since I did not involve Dr. Ritter I don't feel obliged to contact him. He is your source.

Barry please ask your friend if he went there and examined the place in person. If he did I will stop forever harrassing David over his ever-changing ideas and opinion about the place.

Fair nuff?


Thanks in advance

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja Sheesh David I did not put words in your mouth. You have continuely downplayed any significance it might have. I understand that Dr. Ritter is an expert in his field and there have been a number of field trips that have yielded historically important sites in the general area. Isn't that why the place is suspect? That is exactly why I questioned your findings. Like I said before, I won't question his expertise. You showed him a few photos a talked to him. I want to know if he's actually checked the site out personally. Can we agree that it is old? How old? Was it built by the natives or ? What was it's function? What types of artifacts have been catalogued? These are the questions that require a simple answer. I would think a prudent person would actually investigate than draw simple conclusions. Since I did not involve Dr. Ritter I don't feel obliged to contact him. He is your source. Barry please ask your friend if he went there and examined the place in person. If he did I will stop forever harrassing David over his ever-changing ideas and opinion about the place. Fair nuff? Thanks in advance

Sharks------(this whole arguement is simply bazaar) You obviously are never going to be satisfied with what a "middle man" posts here, so NO, I will NOT pursue this with Dr. Ritter------it is YOUR issue-----YOU call him, and ask all your questions, and then, and only then, will you be satisfied (hopefully, but I doubt it)

I will give you this-------you certainly ARE A BULLDOG!!!!

------and for the point that somebody else made, this site that we are talking about IS near the beach of Bahia de las Animas, and IS very near the Carlos Slim site, tho a little south of it, but is right beside the access road to this entire area, thus it's relevance to this thread.

Barry

Barry

Mellower today! ATTENTION!: UPDATE

Perhaps that comment was a little over the top, sorry. It's just that you are serious about those well documented places you report on. This whole thing seems oddly strange to me. The place is sooooo wierd!

Yes David we had an outstanding weekend and btw, we don't have a stove...or an oven....or a grill....or a fryer in our restaurant! Seriously!

Barry if I connect with him should I report back here?
That's right, being a middle-man and representative is awkward, no?
I prefer "Shark" to "Bulldog"!: More teeth! lol:

[Edited on 2-16-2010 by Sharksbaja]

David I should just have held it back but I got steamed again, sensitive subject asyoukno.

You should head north some time David, all this rain would do ya good!! Untwist the panties.

Everythang is good. Especially on lesser traveled roads these days!

Soulman......kumbaya again.......... or however tf you spell it!

Barry, I'll do it. I understand your position. Thanx.

[Edited on 2-16-2010 by Sharksbaja]

Thanks for the "welcome aboard" !

David - says who?

good report, thx.

as far as i know - only flown over, never on shore, but his resort is called Las Animas, the souls, and you can only get there by boat - part of the "romance" of his ops - 1st you fly there, get flown, in his planes - then you transfer to boats to get to the private all inclusive eco paradise on the beach.

frankly - for the $$ i'd rather be at Frambes place.
but he does well.....endorsements from customers nationwide. be a good corporate team build get away.
glad to read the airport "staff" seems to not care about usage....my kind of mexico, the laid back old way!