BajaNomad - Where have all the border security cameras gone?

Where have all the border security cameras gone?

Woooosh - 2-24-2010 at 09:44 AM

A few years back, in the middle of the huge crime wave that swept through Baja Norte and before the military were called in, TJ installed dozens- if not hundreds of security cameras around the city for public safety.

The via rapida route from the San Ysidro border crossing to the Rosarito toll road entrance was covered with them. Now there are just the poles and hanging cables where the cameras were mounted.

The most recent state department travel warning specifically mentions TJ driving dangers for tourists- so where did all the cameras go that were there to protect them? Even non-working cameras deter crime, missing cameras do not.

"Criminals have followed and harassed U.S. citizens traveling in their vehicles in border areas including Nuevo Laredo, Matamoros, and Tijuana."

I do remember the police and military had dual access to the camera controls. Both sides were using camera footage to accuse each other of extorting cash from people- with some specific instances of dollars clearly changing hands in camera view.

So did the leaders of TJ figure they couldn't stop the infighting and corruption between the Police and Military (that made them both look worse)- so they took all the cameras down and let the tourists just fend for themselves? How did that work out for them so far? Not well- because now Mexico is complaining the border travel security alerts are unfair? So put the cameras back up already. JMHO.

[Edited on 2-24-2010 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 2-24-2010 at 09:49 AM

they might have gotten stolen .... they are quite expensive.. had thought about putting one up.. but, then having it outside .. well, thought it might just kinda disappear

just a guess.. don't know.. seems they solve crimes with them in England.. have coverage where they can follow the perpetrator "back" to where they started from.. the coverage is that good within the City

torch - 2-24-2010 at 09:53 AM

Yea, I'd like to see the cameras back and I don't mind cameras anywhere. People doing things they do not want to be seen doing, are the ones who don't like cameras (for safty reasons).

torch - 2-24-2010 at 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
they might have gotten stolen .... they are quite expensive.. had thought about putting one up.. but, then having it outside .. well, thought it might just kinda disappear

just a guess.. don't know.. seems they solve crimes with them in England.. have coverage where they can follow the perpetrator "back" to where they started from.. the coverage is that good within the City

I installed a camera that was stolen but got some great footage of the guy who stole it . the police say they know the guy and will let me know when caught :bounce:

wessongroup - 2-24-2010 at 10:06 AM

That is exactly what I was thinking.. have great color footage of the individual setting in my chair, eating food from my refrigerator, then taking my items and lastly the camera.. with a big full face shot as he disconnects it...

tripledigitken - 2-24-2010 at 10:14 AM

Quote:

They may not be as expensive as you think.

http://www.surveillance-video.com/2csbn160.html

torch - 2-24-2010 at 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Quote:

They may not be as expensive as you think.

http://www.surveillance-video.com/2csbn160.html

But in that area of T.J. they look like diamonds

tripledigitken - 2-24-2010 at 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by torch

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Quote:

They may not be as expensive as you think.

http://www.surveillance-video.com/2csbn160.html

But in that area of T.J. they look like diamonds

Just throw in some wrought iron cages!

Bajahowodd - 2-24-2010 at 01:47 PM

I thoroughly understand public support for surveillance cameras in known areas of high crime. However, since 9/11, in particular, there has been an explosion of surveillance all over the world. You can find cameras being used in just about every major and mid-sized city. Last checked, Chicago had 1500 cameras in operation. Then, there's the program whereby cameras are installed on major highways and bridges, photographing each license plate that passes by and transmits the information in real time to an FBI data base. Maybe I'm too old and out of touch, but I always thought freedom was something that did not include being constantly watched wherever one goes.

DENNIS - 2-24-2010 at 01:50 PM

Don't forget to mention the school laptops with the built in webcam. Some things have definitly gone too far.

torch - 2-24-2010 at 01:56 PM

IMO unfortuneatly there are people in this world who deserve to have their freedom taken away and if the cameras help , let the footage roll.

ILikeMex - 2-24-2010 at 02:05 PM

Catch 22 of big brother.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. "
Benjamin Franklin

Bajahowodd - 2-24-2010 at 02:06 PM

If I was to agree to the extent that there are "some" people that fall into such a category, they would still constitute a small minority. So, maybe Bin Laden already won. That old cliche about "they hate us for our freedoms" thing. which was actually a red herring anyway. Orwell was a prophet. society, it seems, has acquiesced to the loss of privacy.

ILikeMex - 2-24-2010 at 02:12 PM

Its not just cameras - that is the least of it.

Internet usage, Google searches, bank, cell phones - you name it they are archiving, watching and analyzing the info.

Booo

torch - 2-24-2010 at 04:06 PM

I'm talking about cameras and bad guys you guys are heading towards "Logans Run"

Bajahowodd - 2-24-2010 at 04:44 PM

Don't have to. It's already here.

Woooosh - 2-25-2010 at 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by torch
I'm talking about cameras and bad guys you guys are heading towards "Logans Run"

The cameras that prompted this thread are indeed gone. My cousin in Playas Tijuana says they were stolen.

Am I the only one that gets the irony of Mexico complaining about the new security alerts while watching the cameras installed on the via rapida specifically to protect tourists be stolen one by one? Sounds like crocodile tears to me...

Cameras and locks- Both the same. Only work to keep honest people honest and criminals find ways around them.

I post two signs in Spanish on my property that says all activities that take place are recorded. The parking spaces in front of my house fill-up first- so it doesn't scare away any honest people looking for a safe place to park. The c-ckroaches hide in the shadows.

Tijuana Command Center, street cameras as observed 1/6/2007

tripledigitken - 2-25-2010 at 09:55 AM

I wonder if this operation has just shut down? We attended a tour of this facility with fdt a couple of years ago. It really looked like a scene from 24 or the Bourne Identity.

[Edited on 2-26-2010 by tripledigitken]

torch - 2-25-2010 at 10:10 AM

woooosh I should have put the "ones" in quotes to the "ones" I was responding to. I'm all for "keeping the honest ones honest".

[Edited on 2-25-2010 by torch]

DENNIS - 2-25-2010 at 10:24 AM

Cameras make me nervous. Mexico has turned lousy response time into an art form so what real good are they? Apprehension and prosecution? What a joke.
I'm glad the boxes and their false security are gone.

Woooosh - 2-25-2010 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Cameras make me nervous. Mexico has turned lousy response time into an art form so what real good are they? Apprehension and prosecution? What a joke.
I'm glad the boxes and their false security are gone.

Wow. Great pic. Thanks. So I guess the system was operational at some point.

Dennis- I'm not sure it was false security on that stretch of road. The Via Rapida used to be a real problem until the cameras went up, now it is dangerous again with them gone (for my family at least). The Police and Military were catching each other taking bribes with them- which is probably the real reason they went away. I just can't remember when I first noticed they were no longer there...

I can only recall three specific times in six years when my cameras have either stopped someone from being falsely accused or have helped a neighbor recover their property. (We have had the police ask for our help after a shooting- but we told them with a wink the cameras were scanning the other direction at the time. They gladly accepted that response.

EDIT: Want to thanks Dennis for also pointing out the solar- powered emergency phones along the toll road from Playas to Rosarito are now apparently gone too...

[Edited on 2-25-2010 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 2-25-2010 at 02:28 PM

My thanks to a parallel blogger for finding this link to the history of these missing cameras.

This only deepens the mystery though- looks like politics and tourist safety clashed and politics won. Bet they would have kept the system up if they knew the USA would issue these warnings all the time, because at least it showed serious efforts on Mexico's part (at the time anyway).

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/2007071...

"One command center operator said it has assisted in 12,800 detentions from April 2006 to April 2007." That's not a small number- no matter what you think of cameras...

[Edited on 2-25-2010 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 3-27-2010 at 09:09 PM

Hooray! It looks like 1000 cameras and two monitoring stations could be going back in! In 2006 the cameras were credited with 12,800 actual detentions, about 35 a day. This, along with the temporary 2am bar closings- will help make people feel and really be more secure. Better for everyone but the bad guys and the corrupt.

http://afntijuana.info/blog/?p=30611#more-30611

"The public needs to regain more confidence in the municipal authority, and to have the feeling they are protected at home, business, and on public roads. We will work hard to make this a reality," he said, referring to his proposal against the insecurity. To achieve these he is encouraging the installation of a thousand video surveillance cameras, besides the construction of two new command centers in two different areas of the city."

Ok, it's not quite there yet-- but it least it's on their radar now. I'm good.

JESSE - 3-27-2010 at 11:46 PM

The cameras where installed during Jorge Hank Rhon's administration, wich was corrupt to the core to say the least. The contract was done in secret to a company nobody knew. After Hank was gone, the whole project was deemed to be a complete failure, because somehow, the criminals had access to the cameras and could plan their hits using the cameras to see where cops where. After realizing that the whole proyect was in fact set up and used to aid criminals, not the city, it was shut down.

Better to not have cameras, than to have them used as cartel eyes in the city.

DENNIS - 3-28-2010 at 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
"One command center operator said it has assisted in 12,800 detentions from April 2006 to April 2007." That's not a small number- no matter what you think of cameras...

That's 35 per day......on the toll road......where city cops don't patrol.
If you believe that, well........

Woooosh - 3-28-2010 at 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
"One command center operator said it has assisted in 12,800 detentions from April 2006 to April 2007." That's not a small number- no matter what you think of cameras...

That's 35 per day......on the toll road......where city cops don't patrol.
If you believe that, well........

We don't know if any detentions were on the toll road or Via Rapida to it. Most of the cameras were in the downtown Ave. Revolucion tourist zone.

DENNIS - 3-28-2010 at 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
We don't know if any detentions were on the toll road or Via Rapida to it. Most of the cameras were in the downtown Ave. Revolucion tourist zone.

Sorry....I wasn't aware of those.