BajaNomad

4 TJ Police Arrested for Robbing Tourist

arrowhead - 3-4-2010 at 12:55 PM

I posted the article in Spanish below. It says 4 TJ police, in two marked patrol units, pulled over a cab in the downtown area carrying Chum Kim Ku, a South Korea, and president of the World Youth Tae Kwon Do who was in town for a tournament to be held in TJ. They robbed him of over $1,000. This happened last Tuesday.
Quote:
http://afntijuana.info/blog/?p=28531

Detienen a cuatro policías extorsionadores

TIJUANA BC 4 DE MARZO DE 2010 (AFN).- Cuatro elementos de la policía municipal fueron denunciados y finalmente puestos bajo arresto por la superioridad, tras de que se comprobó que despojaron de su dinero y otras pertenencias al presidente de la Asociación Mundial Juvenil de Tae Kwon Do que se celebra en nuestra ciudad, Kim Chum Ku.
El turista coreano, dirige el VIII Campeonato que reúne aquí a una gran cantidad de visitantes, y según lo que denunció fue extorsionado cuando viajaba en un taxi por la zona Centro, a las 21:15 horas del pasado 2 de marzo.
La unidad que lo transportaba fue interceptada por las unidades 4655 y 4658, de las cuales los oficiales descendieron y dos de éstos le realizaron una revisión corporal.
Uno de los agentes revisó su cartera con documentos y en la acción lo despojaron de 500 dólares americanos, 300 Euros y 100 dólares canadienses. El chofer de la unidad reconoció plenamente a: José Luís Hernández Gálvez, Rafael Sánchez Macedo, Eduardo Romero Enríquez y Víctor Javier Jove Rosales.
La Secretaría de Seguridad Pública que dio a conocer el arresto, hizo saber que los oficiales reconocieron plenamente este bochornoso acto.


There's another article on the same page where the governnor of Baja is complaining about the US travel advisory to Tijuana. :rolleyes:

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-4-2010 at 12:57 PM

Hang em high and throw them under the jail! Nothing worse than a Dirty Cop!

Woooosh - 3-4-2010 at 01:44 PM

I think it has to be an American tourist being victimized for it to be printed anywhere in English. Nope, they don't cover those in the USA either. Too bad the cops weren't in plain clothes- bet that Tae Kwon Do guy has a few black belts. It does seem counterproductive to victimize the few organizations still holding events in TJ. Maybe they thought he was a Chinese businessman setting up a factory...
:saint::saint:

Boston Police just set up their new camera system for just $500K. It's tied to their gunshot detectors- that saves time I'll bet.

http://thisbluemarble.com/showthread.php?p=191226

[Edited on 3-4-2010 by Woooosh]

You're Too Kind

Bajahowodd - 3-4-2010 at 02:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
Hang em high and throw them under the jail! Nothing worse than a Dirty Cop!


Dirty cop? Nah! Criminal is more like it.

DENNIS - 3-4-2010 at 02:13 PM

Hey Woooosh...You wanted things to get back to normal. Here ya go. Just like the good ol' days

arrowhead - 3-4-2010 at 02:28 PM

Looks like two of the arrested TJ cops ran into those loose doors down at the delegacion.





[Edited on 3-4-2010 by arrowhead]

bajabass - 3-4-2010 at 05:03 PM

Somehow I think that is just the beginning of their problems!

DENNIS - 3-4-2010 at 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabass
Somehow I think that is just the beginning of their problems!



They'll be on the street by sundown.

Woooosh - 3-4-2010 at 05:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Hey Woooosh...You wanted things to get back to normal. Here ya go. Just like the good ol' days


Yup. And as soon as they install that pesky camera system again- the other 1500 TJ cops will eventually be caught too. But who would replace them except for military? That's why the cameras are gone- they were firing Police so fast they couldn't replace them- except with the Military who had their own corrupt commanders. And we both know it went up the ladder from there.

It's a systemic institutionalized problem and this event goes into the "they aren't ready to change yet" column, it's not a narco or AFO crime... it's a stuck on stupid crime.

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Woooosh]

desertcpl - 3-4-2010 at 07:33 PM

boy I hate those loose doors

arrowhead - 3-4-2010 at 08:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
It's systemic institutionalized problem and this event goes in the "they aren't ready to change yet" column, it's not a narco or AFO crime. It's a stuck on stupid crime.


You know, Woooosh, if you keep up with this line of thought Josie is going to have to investigate you. It does not matter if you are married to a Mexican, live in Mexico and speak Spanish. Wanting Mexico to improve is taboo around here.

...I'm just saying.:rolleyes:

Woooosh - 3-4-2010 at 08:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
It's systemic institutionalized problem and this event goes in the "they aren't ready to change yet" column, it's not a narco or AFO crime. It's a stuck on stupid crime.


You know, Woooosh, if you keep up with this line of thought Josie is going to have to investigate you. It does not matter if you are married to a Mexican, live in Mexico and speak Spanish. Wanting Mexico to improve is taboo around here.

...I'm just saying.:rolleyes:


Yeah- I don't know who Josie is, but I caught some of that sentiment on another thread just now. Funny to be accused of being pro-Mexico today, last week people were saying I could be targeted for being anti-Mexico. Tough crowd. :rolleyes:

a new detail on this incident- the loot: "They had already divided the money equally, consisting of 500 dollars, 300 euros and 100 Canadian dollars."

Geesh- Four "careers" and many possible years in jail (doubtful) for about $300 each. SOS for sure.

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Woooosh]

flyfishinPam - 3-5-2010 at 06:58 AM

whoosh do not give in to perceived threats like that. follow your heart and protect the people you love there's nothing wrong with speaking out because its the first step towards getting things done. Mexico is in severe need of improvement we need folks like you.

is there an organization you can support and stand behind that can help like a citizens protection network or something of the like? if not perhaps your friends and family can start one. a legally recognized organization can make statements and hold officials responsible for actions such as this. an org. can unite with others like it in other cities. I can certainly see where this would be helpful throughout Mexico. being united and speaking as one voice throughout the nation is key. this is what we're doing now on the environmental side and this can also be done in the case of civil protection.

Woooosh - 3-5-2010 at 09:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by flyfishinPam
whoosh do not give in to perceived threats like that. follow your heart and protect the people you love there's nothing wrong with speaking out because its the first step towards getting things done. Mexico is in severe need of improvement we need folks like you.

is there an organization you can support and stand behind that can help like a citizens protection network or something of the like? if not perhaps your friends and family can start one. a legally recognized organization can make statements and hold officials responsible for actions such as this. an org. can unite with others like it in other cities. I can certainly see where this would be helpful throughout Mexico. being united and speaking as one voice throughout the nation is key. this is what we're doing now on the environmental side and this can also be done in the case of civil protection.


Thanks Pam. That's a great idea. I embrace differing views on the board, but if someone screamed in my face during an opinion discussion in person- I would probably just turn and walk away too. That is strength, not weakness. Disengage from mischief.

I have joined a non-political grass-roots group seeking positive change within Mexico (see my avatar). If we can get people out of their houses and comfortable talking about cleaning up TJ (literally), the other more necessary discussions will follow. This is all new ground for Mexico.

I don't expect Mexico to be able to solve this narco, corruption and violence problem quickly. They gave it a shot. It's not surrender IMHO- it's stepping back to build an arsenal that works. They aren't there yet. But that should not prevent Americans from stopping the problem at their border- the USA has the ability to do so- just not the will to dedicate the correct resources. Make the border stronger, carry your guns proudly into the national forests and wipe out the Mexican pot growers on your own soil, decriminalize drugs- whatever. Just because Mexico isn't capable- it shouldn't mean the war shouldn't be fought on the USA side. And if the USA can't get it together to create a barrier against it at the border- stop putting 100% of the blame on the source. There's plenty of blame to go around. But everyday Mexicans need some peace, security and the time to recover economically and socially in the meantime.

Thanks again.

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Woooosh]

"Confiesa, cabrón, si no te vas a morir aquí mismo"

arrowhead - 3-5-2010 at 09:48 AM

Very interesting expose article on the incident from the viewpoint of the arrested officers. Here is the Spanish version:

http://rosaritoenlanoticia.blogspot.com/2010/03/confiesa-cab...

...and here is a Google translated version:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Frosarit...

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by arrowhead]

Donjulio - 3-5-2010 at 09:56 AM

Arrowhead, why do you care? Why have you made it your mission in life to point out every negative thing that happens in Mexico? Why the obsession/addiction to the negativity and dark side? Is it just because you don't want people to come here? Don't give me the I want people to know the truth line because they can get their info from the same sources you are always quoting.

Do you think you are providing some kind of service for people or telling people stuff they don't already know? What is it? Your focus on the negative is really unhealthy. I guess I should ask myself the same question I just asked you. Why do I care whether you are messed up or not?

Woooosh - 3-5-2010 at 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Very interesting expose article on the incident from the viewpoint of the arrested officers. Here is the Spanish version:

http://rosaritoenlanoticia.blogspot.com/2010/03/confiesa-cab...

...and here is a Google translated version:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Frosarit...

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by arrowhead]


It is too bad the police have to beat and torture each other to get the "truth", when all they have to do is put the camera system back in place. And no, I'm not getting off the camera-horse for a long time. They had a state of the art security system that objectively provided the video truth- and this is better than that? This tourist was taken from a taxi in the tourist zone- which previously had been closely monitored by the camera system.

I'm sure the Union Tribune will simply say "this is a local interest story only" and not report it, just like the two Rosarito carjackings of Americans last month. It wasn't in todays paper- but maybe they will put in in the Sunday Enlace Spanish section. The UT is doing their part to cooperate with the Mexican deception... the proof is in what they DON'T print. JMHO.

My family survived an attempted carjacking within sight of these empty camera mounts:

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Woooosh]

DSCN1774s1.jpg - 44kB

arrowhead - 3-5-2010 at 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
Do you think you are providing some kind of service for people or telling people stuff they don't already know?


Hey look, Kyle. I know things are not going too well with you. But you chose to have a career selling Mexican real estate to Gringos. Right now that is like selling icecubes to Eskimoes. But please don't take it out on me. I am not responsible for the problems in Mexico. I'm getting a little tired of being the target. First of all, the "stuff" is not what they already know. Where is this incident reported in the US media?

Second of all, you are not an honest person. I'm not saying that to pick a fight with you, but I've sat here and watched you talk out of both sides of your mouth, and have not called you out on all of it. Please try to find a post where I lied about a fact.

Do you remember when you posted this last year?
Quote:
"I have been doing real estate in Mexico for 10 years and have been involved in $17,000,000 in closed sales and so far nobody has lost a property yet."

Donjulio 6/6/2009


Was that a true statement? Do you remember this post of yours, about El Dorado Ranch?:
Quote:
"Yeah lots of that going on. But can't blame some of them either. They were promised a lot. They got some of it but not near the promises. Pat did the same thing that pretty much everyone did. Spent money speculating property instead of putting it back into the development. Granted he put millions in but still...everyone borrowed (not robbed) from Peter to pay Paul. Now Peter showed up and nobody can pay him back."

DonJulio 1-13-2010


I happen to know that you worked for years for the company the marketed El Dorado. A lot of people drank your Koolaide, and have lost money.

Donjulio - 3-5-2010 at 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
Do you think you are providing some kind of service for people or telling people stuff they don't already know?


Hey look, Kyle. I know things are not going too well with you. But you chose to have a career selling Mexican real estate to Gringos. Right now that is like selling icecubes to Eskimoes. But please don't take it out on me. I am not responsible for the problems in Mexico. I'm getting a little tired of being the target. First of all, the "stuff" is not what they already know. Where is this incident reported in the US media?

Second of all, you are not an honest person. I'm not saying that to pick a fight with you, but I've sat here and watched you talk out of both sides of your mouth, and have not called you out on all of it. Please try to find a post where I lied about a fact.

Do you remember when you posted this last year?
Quote:
"I have been doing real estate in Mexico for 10 years and have been involved in $17,000,000 in closed sales and so far nobody has lost a property yet."

Donjulio 6/6/2009


Was that a true statement? Do you remember this post of yours, about El Dorado Ranch?:
Quote:
"Yeah lots of that going on. But can't blame some of them either. They were promised a lot. They got some of it but not near the promises. Pat did the same thing that pretty much everyone did. Spent money speculating property instead of putting it back into the development. Granted he put millions in but still...everyone borrowed (not robbed) from Peter to pay Paul. Now Peter showed up and nobody can pay him back."

DonJulio 1-13-2010


I happen to know that you worked for years for the company the marketed El Dorado. A lot of people drank your Koolaide, and have lost money.




I don't see where either of those posts contradict each other. You have to get your stories straight too. I did not work for "The company that marketed El Dorado". I believe you are referring to RMac? Never worked for them.

Second I don't know of a single person in a real estate deal I was involved in who "LOST" a property yet.

Are there issues at developments that have not been resolved? Yes for sure. All due to lack of money. There is a big difference though between that and losing a property.

Have people lost money? Only if they are currently selling for less than they paid. But that is a choice they are making. A lot of people are holding onto their properties and waiting.

You have to look at clear examples. Two people come down and pay $40,000 for a lot next door to each other. One used equity in their property in the states. The other one used their retirement money. The one that used their retirement money built their house with cash and moved down here and lives here full-time. Are the retired people happy? Yep.

The one that bought with equity money doesn't have any equity anymore, can't afford to build, are in trouble with the economy in the states and have to sell. They sell for $15,000. Are they happy? Nope. Did they lose money? Yep. Did they lose their property? Nope. Is it my fault? Nope So lets keep our stories straight here.

I bought a home in AZ in Dec 2004 and paid $289,000. It went up to $435,000. It sold last year for $130,000.
Did I get ripped off? No. Did I lose the property? No. Did I lose my ass? Yep. But it wasnt anybodys fault.

Keep trying though. You won't find anyone here that I ripped off. But you never did answer my question. Why do you have such a negative obsession with Mexico?

I don't like the real estate business here at all. And yeah the market sucks. But I sure like living in Mexico much more than living in the US.

DonJulio

djh - 3-5-2010 at 11:55 AM

May I suggest that you take it to U2U or somewhere else ?
Off topic, personal, and inappropriate for this thread.

Woooosh - 3-5-2010 at 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by djh
May I suggest that you take it to U2U or somewhere else ?
Off topic, personal, and inappropriate for this thread.


pick any thread- they are all like this right now... and personally I cringe when I get a U2U. I like things to be out in the open- but maybe the "Take it to Off-Topic" is a better option.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-5-2010 at 12:02 PM

I am so disappointed with you two!:lol:

Donjulio - 3-5-2010 at 12:08 PM

Lot of craziness lately for the negativity here. Some of us live here and love Mexico and it's people. This is a Baja Forum. Perhaps my mistake was to believe it was to promote all the wonderful things about Baja and peoples experiences here. Lately people seem to want to trash it.

Really it would be like me going to a site promoting Florida and start bashing the US. Tell people not to go to Disney World or Sea World cause of the crime in Miami and posting every purse snatching, carjacking, burglary, accident, robbery, homicide that I could find in the whole state.

There would truly have to be something not right about me to spend my time doing that. Just makes no sense.

arrowhead - 3-5-2010 at 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
I did not work for "The company that marketed El Dorado". I believe you are referring to RMac? Never worked for them.


You see, this is exactly what I mean when I spoke of you being dishonest. Look at this page:

http://www.eastvalleynetworking.com/el_dorado_ranch.htm

Look down at the very bottom of the page. Do you see where it says, "Offered by: Brooks, Byron and Associates, LLC." ?? You were employed as a real estate sales agent for them from 2003 to 2005. You're just too slick. I don't even want to get into your mealy-mouthed explanation that if you don't sell real estate that has dropped in value, you haven't lost any money.

And I answered you question about my negativity several times. I'm not negative, I'm honest. Deal with it. This place is chock full of vultures waiting to pick-off a soft target.

bajaguy - 3-5-2010 at 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh

It is too bad the police have to beat and torture each other to get the "truth"..........

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Woooosh]





Yup, you are right. Beating them is SO last year and Neanderthal like. There are more refined and modern methods to obtain information.

Quick and easy.....and also painless.........how long could you last?????

http://content1.clipmarks.com/content/7E8ADC46-F3DD-4D6F-B18...

DENNIS - 3-5-2010 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
Lot of craziness lately for the negativity here. Some of us live here and love Mexico and it's people. This is a Baja Forum. Perhaps my mistake was to believe it was to promote all the wonderful things about Baja and peoples experiences here. Lately people seem to want to trash it.



We have to have all sides of every issue to form an accurate opinion of a place. It would be a disservice to promote only the good in anything when another side exists.
There's a beautiful little park in South Central Los Angeles. Should South Central be promoted based solely on that little park? I don't think so.

Donjulio - 3-5-2010 at 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
I did not work for "The company that marketed El Dorado". I believe you are referring to RMac? Never worked for them.


You see, this is exactly what I mean when I spoke of you being dishonest. Look at this page:

http://www.eastvalleynetworking.com/el_dorado_ranch.htm

Look down at the very bottom of the page. Do you see where it says, "Offered by: Brooks, Byron and Associates, LLC." ?? You were employed as a real estate sales agent for them from 2003 to 2005. You're just too slick. I don't even want to get into your mealy-mouthed explanation that if you don't sell real estate that has dropped in value, you haven't lost any money.

And I answered you question about my negativity several times. I'm not negative, I'm honest. Deal with it. This place is chock full of vultures waiting to pick-off a soft target.



You're exactly right. I was a licensed real estate agent in Arizona. Which means I was an independent contractor. My broker was who my license was with but I worked for El Dorado Ranch/Pat Butler not a marketing company. So lets be very clear. If you are going to tell the story tell it right.

How many foreclosures were there in the US in the last couple years Arrowhead? Do you see us on here bashing the US cause people got ripped off and lost their money in real estate with the market and economy being down? No you do not. Get real.

Donjulio - 3-5-2010 at 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
Lot of craziness lately for the negativity here. Some of us live here and love Mexico and it's people. This is a Baja Forum. Perhaps my mistake was to believe it was to promote all the wonderful things about Baja and peoples experiences here. Lately people seem to want to trash it.



We have to have all sides of every issue to form an accurate opinion of a place. It would be a disservice to promote only the good in anything when another side exists.
There's a beautiful little park in South Central Los Angeles. Should South Central be promoted based solely on that little park? I don't think so.



An accurate opinion usually is not so biased in one direction. I'm done!

arrowhead - 3-5-2010 at 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
I did not work for "The company that marketed El Dorado". I believe you are referring to RMac? Never worked for them.


You see, this is exactly what I mean when I spoke of you being dishonest. Look at this page:

http://www.eastvalleynetworking.com/el_dorado_ranch.htm

Look down at the very bottom of the page. Do you see where it says, "Offered by: Brooks, Byron and Associates, LLC." ?? You were employed as a real estate sales agent for them from 2003 to 2005. You're just too slick. I don't even want to get into your mealy-mouthed explanation that if you don't sell real estate that has dropped in value, you haven't lost any money.

And I answered you question about my negativity several times. I'm not negative, I'm honest. Deal with it. This place is chock full of vultures waiting to pick-off a soft target.



You're exactly right. I was a licensed real estate agent in Arizona. Which means I was an independent contractor. My broker was who my license was with but I worked for El Dorado Ranch/Pat Butler not a marketing company. So lets be very clear. If you are going to tell the story tell it right.

How many foreclosures were there in the US in the last couple years Arrowhead? Do you see us on here bashing the US cause people got ripped off and lost their money in real estate with the market and economy being down? No you do not. Get real.


You see? You just confessed to lying. Now you are trying to renegotiate what the term "worked for" means.

GAME, SET, MATCH

Donjulio - 3-5-2010 at 12:32 PM

I was a sales manager for El Dorado Ranch. That was pretty obvious since my website (which I know you checked before) had 3 reference and referral letters from El Dorado. But you are so quick to point out when someone makes slight errors that I felt it necessary to point out yours.

Donjulio - 3-5-2010 at 12:35 PM

By the way, you won't find anyone at El Dorado Ranch that has had their property taken away from them which was what we were discussing on the one post that you quoted me on earlier. So you need to practice more before you even think about playing the game.

Donjulio - 3-5-2010 at 12:41 PM

Quote:
Quote:


We have to have all sides of every issue to form an accurate opinion of a place. It would be a disservice to promote only the good in anything when another side exists.
There's a beautiful little park in South Central Los Angeles. Should South Central be promoted based solely on that little park? I don't think so.


This is my last post on these forums. I really am tired of all the negativity and fighting lately. I quit once before and don't know why I came back.

The bottom line is you can't form an accurate opinion of a place on other peoples opinions and information. You want to form an accurate opinion of a place...go there. People are scared to death to come to Mexico because of the "accurate opinions" they have formed listening to this kind of crap.

k-rico - 3-5-2010 at 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
There's a beautiful little park in South Central Los Angeles.


Really!! I need to check it out.

Lately I've been thinking about getting a second home (of course I'll keep my place in quaint and charming Tijuana), and in addition to Baja I've been considering SOCAL.

South Central might be the place. Sort of a refuge from the craziness here in TJ. I like the idea of being centrally located and I bet the homes along the park you mentioned are reasonably priced.

Do you think it's safe at night in the park? I hope not. :cool:

I'll post some photos after I visit. Think I'll drive the '63 Chevy low rider up. Just had it painted flat black.

Woooosh - 3-5-2010 at 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh

It is too bad the police have to beat and torture each other to get the "truth"..........

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Woooosh]





Yup, you are right. Beating them is SO last year and Neanderthal like. There are more refined and modern methods to obtain information.

Quick and easy.....and also painless.........how long could you last?????

http://content1.clipmarks.com/content/7E8ADC46-F3DD-4D6F-B18...


Not long- but that's the point, right? I'd take a CIA waterboarding over what those TJ cops got- head covered in a plastic bag and beat with handcuffs until unconscious. They even tried to get one of them to confess to the crime on a stretcher on the way to the hospital.

No wonder they only showed the two photos- they were the pretty ones afterwards. The security cameras were a better system to keep the honest cops honest- and the Korean tourist safer.

arrowhead - 3-5-2010 at 02:53 PM

Well, I suppose most people here did not read the newstory about these four TJ cops, as it was in Spanish. They pulled over the cab the Korean was riding in with their marked patrol units, which have an identification number painted on them, just like NOB. They demanded to see the ID of the Korean and took his wallet and removed all his money from it. The taxicab driver remembered the ID numbers of the patrol units and later positively ID'd the four.

Had this happened NOB, these guys would have been found guilty in a court of law no matter what they said, so torture would be unnecessary. It probably would have taken about a year to go through the legal process. In Mexico, there are no trials in the real sense. Lawyers pass briefs to judges who review them in their office and rule on what they read. The most expedient way to resolve a case is to present a confession to a judge. It really cuts down on the paperwork. So, the Mexican criminal jurisprudence system is designed to exact confessions. All those narcotrafficers who have been arrested recently, you never read about a trial. And they are all sentenced to jail within a couple of weeks of their arrest.

As for Bajaguy's post about US torture, there is something to keep in mind. Statements made under tortures are inadmissible in a US court. Not one statement of those waterboarded rug merchants was ever entered at a trial. The information was only used to prevent planned attacks on the US. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the confessed mastermind of 911, did not confess to that under torture. He confessed to that gladly and willingly way before the waterboarding. He wanted to be a martyr and a hero. He was waterboarded to gain information about other planned attacks on the US, and it worked. He told the CIA about another planned attack on the Library Towers in Los Angeles, and the plot was broken up.

bajaguy - 3-5-2010 at 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead

As for Bajaguy's post about US torture, there is something to keep in mind. Statements made under tortures are inadmissible in a US court. Not one statement of those waterboarded rug merchants was ever entered at a trial. The information was only used to prevent planned attacks on the US. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the confessed mastermind of 911, did not confess to that under torture. He confessed to that gladly and willingly way before the waterboarding. He wanted to be a martyr and a hero. He was waterboarded to gain information about other planned attacks on the US, and it worked. He told the CIA about another planned attack on the Library Towers in Los Angeles, and the plot was broken up.





arrowhead, I will use whatever method I can to keep my family and my country, and when I was in the military, those under my command safe.

I'm sure that if they would give me a quart of water and 10 minutes with Mr Gardner III, I would have the information about his involvement with Chelsea King and Amber Dubois.

It's time to quit wasting time and money on these creatures and give them some of their own medicine.......maybe treat them like they treated Daniel Pearl.

There is only one way to rehabilitate people like Mr Gardner III and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed....... a 165 grain injection of .30 caliber copper encased lead.

Woooosh - 3-5-2010 at 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Well, I suppose most people here did not read the newstory about these four TJ cops, as it was in Spanish. They pulled over the cab the Korean was riding in with their marked patrol units, which have an identification number painted on them, just like NOB. They demanded to see the ID of the Korean and took his wallet and removed all his money from it. The taxicab driver remembered the ID numbers of the patrol units and later positively ID'd the four.

Had this happened NOB, these guys would have been found guilty in a court of law no matter what they said, so torture would be unnecessary. It probably would have taken about a year to go through the legal process. In Mexico, there are no trials in the real sense. Lawyers pass briefs to judges who review them in their office and rule on what they read. The most expedient way to resolve a case is to present a confession to a judge. It really cuts down on the paperwork. So, the Mexican criminal jurisprudence system is designed to exact confessions. All those narcotrafficers who have been arrested recently, you never read about a trial. And they are all sentenced to jail within a couple of weeks of their arrest.

As for Bajaguy's post about US torture, there is something to keep in mind. Statements made under tortures are inadmissible in a US court. Not one statement of those waterboarded rug merchants was ever entered at a trial. The information was only used to prevent planned attacks on the US. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the confessed mastermind of 911, did not confess to that under torture. He confessed to that gladly and willingly way before the waterboarding. He wanted to be a martyr and a hero. He was waterboarded to gain information about other planned attacks on the US, and it worked. He told the CIA about another planned attack on the Library Towers in Los Angeles, and the plot was broken up.

So the hero is the cab driver.

Legal reform is on the way (2016?) with a process you would recognize NOB. They go from submitting written briefs behind closed doors to oral arguments in open courts, cross examinations- the whole enchilada. Legal reform is just one of the pieces they need to get in place before Mexico can move ahead. Hopefully it will bring transparency to the process because right now "a lot of papers" change hands along with those legal briefs.

arrowhead - 3-6-2010 at 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
Second I don't know of a single person in a real estate deal I was involved in who "LOST" a property yet.


I waited a day to respond to this, since I had already beat up DonJulio enough for one day, and he said he was leaving. Just to make the record clear, quite a few buyers at his El Dorado Ranch in San Felipe have just "walked away" from their property and let it revert back to Pat Butler. You can read about it on the Yahoo El Dorado Ranch message board here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eldoradoranch/

The lesson learned is to be careful who you listen to and who you believe. Mexico is full of zopilotes (buzzards).

Get Your Facts Straight

Bajahowodd - 3-6-2010 at 01:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Well, I suppose most people here did not read the newstory about these four TJ cops, as it was in Spanish. They pulled over the cab the Korean was riding in with their marked patrol units, which have an identification number painted on them, just like NOB. They demanded to see the ID of the Korean and took his wallet and removed all his money from it. The taxicab driver remembered the ID numbers of the patrol units and later positively ID'd the four.

Had this happened NOB, these guys would have been found guilty in a court of law no matter what they said, so torture would be unnecessary. It probably would have taken about a year to go through the legal process. In Mexico, there are no trials in the real sense. Lawyers pass briefs to judges who review them in their office and rule on what they read. The most expedient way to resolve a case is to present a confession to a judge. It really cuts down on the paperwork. So, the Mexican criminal jurisprudence system is designed to exact confessions. All those narcotrafficers who have been arrested recently, you never read about a trial. And they are all sentenced to jail within a couple of weeks of their arrest.

As for Bajaguy's post about US torture, there is something to keep in mind. Statements made under tortures are inadmissible in a US court. Not one statement of those waterboarded rug merchants was ever entered at a trial. The information was only used to prevent planned attacks on the US. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the confessed mastermind of 911, did not confess to that under torture. He confessed to that gladly and willingly way before the waterboarding. He wanted to be a martyr and a hero. He was waterboarded to gain information about other planned attacks on the US, and it worked. He told the CIA about another planned attack on the Library Towers in Los Angeles, and the plot was broken up.



http://www.slate.com/id/2216601/

arrowhead - 3-6-2010 at 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Get your facts straight


Howodd, since when is an op-ed piece by a newspaper writer a fact? Read the story. The author does not introduce even one expert in security to support his contention. Not one, Howodd. Nada. Zip, Zilch. Bupkiss.

Bajahowodd - 3-6-2010 at 05:20 PM

Just saying that during the plague years that were run by Mephistopheles/Cheney, truth became a negotiable commodity. It will take many years for historians to sort this out. But the one fact that cannot be refuted is that Forrest GWB Gump inherited a budget surplus, that he quickly gave away to his wealthy friends, and so on and son on. A new book by Ron Suskind makes a case for bringing the turd up on charges. Make you a deal. I've read. You read it. Then we'll talk.

Terry28 - 3-6-2010 at 05:40 PM

Bajaguy...Need help?? I for one hope Mr. Gardner makes bail....as the father of a soon to be 16yr old girl..I have parenting issues to discuss with him!!wanna watch??

arrowhead - 3-6-2010 at 05:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Make you a deal. I've read. You read it. Then we'll talk.


No thanks. I get my conspiracy theories from gnukid for free.

arrowhead - 3-6-2010 at 11:00 PM

Governor José Guadalupe Osuna Millán and Mayor Jorge Ramos Hernández arrived at the Tae Kwon Do event in TJ, presided over by the South Korean who was robbed by the four TJ cops. They were soundly booed.
Quote:
TIJUANA BC 6 DE MARZO DE 2010 (AFN).- Un monumental abucheo recibieron el gobernador de la entidad José Guadalupe Osuna Millán y el alcalde de la ciudad Jorge Ramos Hernández al hacer su arribo esta tarde a las instalaciones del Centro de Alto Rendimiento (CAR) para presenciar la inauguración del Torneo Juvenil de Tae Kwon Do que inició en esta ciudad.

http://afntijuana.info/blog/?p=28756

Woooosh - 3-7-2010 at 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Governor José Guadalupe Osuna Millán and Mayor Jorge Ramos Hernández arrived at the Tae Kwon Do event in TJ, presided over by the South Korean who was robbed by the four TJ cops. They were soundly booed.

Quote:
TIJUANA BC 6 DE MARZO DE 2010 (AFN).- Un monumental abucheo recibieron el gobernador de la entidad José Guadalupe Osuna Millán y el alcalde de la ciudad Jorge Ramos Hernández al hacer su arribo esta tarde a las instalaciones del Centro de Alto Rendimiento (CAR) para presenciar la inauguración del Torneo Juvenil de Tae Kwon Do que inició en esta ciudad.

http://afntijuana.info/blog/?p=28756


Finally- people are bringing the concept of shame to Mexico. Someday you may even hear the words "I'm sorry".

DENNIS - 3-7-2010 at 09:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Someday you may even hear the words "I'm sorry".


That's the last thing I ever want to hear. Why would you believe ANYBODY when they say that? I mean, if they would continually screw you to your knees, why would they all of a sudden have credibility?

Woooosh - 3-7-2010 at 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Someday you may even hear the words "I'm sorry".


That's the last thing I ever want to hear. Why would you believe ANYBODY when they say that? I mean, if they would continually screw you to your knees, why would they all of a sudden have credibility?


I would just like those two words added to the Mexican vocabulary. My nephew totaled my truck a few years ago and couldn't come up with those words either. When I asked the rest of my family why no one said "I'm sorry" in Mexico- they just looked at me and said it is never done. Maybe that's why it's mostly only ladies going to catholic church service- the men can't accept being "humiliated" by the act of confession and then sent off to pray and say penance...

:saint:

woody with a view - 3-7-2010 at 10:27 AM

thanks Whoosh, that explained alot just then....

DENNIS - 3-7-2010 at 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh

I would just like those two words added to the Mexican vocabulary. My nephew totaled my truck a few years ago and couldn't come up with those words either. When I asked the rest of my family why no one said "I'm sorry" in Mexico- they just looked at me and said it is never done. Maybe that's why it's mostly only ladies going to catholic church service- the men can't accept being "humiliated" by the act of confession and then sent off to pray and say penance...

:saint:


Oh, Lord. Has your gardner never busted one of your tools? You hear these long sobbing I'm Sorrys for an hour. :(

woody with a view - 3-7-2010 at 11:15 AM

your gardner doesn't have tools? that explained alot, too!

DENNIS - 3-7-2010 at 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody in ob
your gardner doesn't have tools? that explained alot, too!


Naw. If they have tools, you have to pay them. That's what it says in the book. :lol:

Woooosh - 3-7-2010 at 01:02 PM

I'm one of those old-fashioned Yankees that doesn't borrow or lend tools. My Dad always told me "If you borrow it and break it- you just have to buy another one to replace it for them anyway- so just buy it to begin with". That old commercial where a guys says... "Like my Daddy always said, never be afraid to buy the best- you'll always be happy with it" still rings true with me. It's amazing how long a good tool, used and maintained properly- will last. Generations in fact.

Not so much with my Mexican family. They tend to grab the closest thing and try to make that work: knives become can-openers, screwdrivers become chisels, and a chair becomes a ladder. I'm still working on that with them... lol

I don't have a garden or gardener since I covered absolutely every square inch of ground with slate. I have become a container garden lover though- with a hundred or more beautiful Mexican talavera pots around the house. It gives me a chance to move the plant to the right sun location a few times before we eventually kill it.

It is doubtful your Mexican gardener (or neighbor) would show up the next day with a new replacement tool or offer to have the cost taken from their pay. They squirm a bit- but that's only because it's harder to keep working and get paid when the tool they need is broken.

[Edited on 3-7-2010 by Woooosh]