BajaNomad - A quick run by San Borja

A quick run by San Borja

rts551 - 3-5-2010 at 08:05 AM

Great pictures Diane. The desert should be even more beautiful with all the recent rains. Glad your son had a god trip

David K - 3-5-2010 at 08:28 AM

I always enjoy your photos... but, I think you should consider the source of the money talk...

"But it just does not seem quite OK when we heard Jose's youngest son ask his cousin if he got money from us---"

Those were both kids, not adults, not Jose who discussed money, right?

Money means an aweful lot to kids who have zero for getting the few things they can to make life more fun for them out there. I am sure Jose would strongly dis-approve, don't you?

For Nomads who have not visited San Borja... it is a delight and worth every penny of whatever you care to donate for the tour service Jose's family provides... Here is what Jose looked like (in Sandals shirt and hat) this past summer:

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I always enjoy your photos... but, I think you should consider the source of the money talk...

"But it just does not seem quite OK when we heard Jose's youngest son ask his cousin if he got money from us---"

Those were both kids, not adults, not Jose who discussed money, right?

Money means an aweful lot to kids who have zero for getting the few things they can to make life more fun for them out there. I am sure Jose would strongly dis-approve, don't you?

For Nomads who have not visited San Borja... it is a delight and worth every penny of whatever you care to donate for the tour service Jose's family provides... Here is what Jose looked like (in Sandals shirt and hat) this past summer:

I guess I was not clear---the youngest son is not a child anymore. He is a young adult.

It is not about paying them for what they do---we pay very generously just for them being there and watching over the mission.

It is a matter of teaching the the young ones to get more, and more and as much as they can---it is an attitude that does take away from the experience.

Since this is a reflection of one's upbringing, I doubt Jose would disapprove. We have seen this same attitude with other members of the family in the past. We ignored it. BTW, it was the adult women who told the young boy to get more money when John wandered off toward the cemetery --- it is not a child thing.

We will keep going back and we will keep paying without hesitation. We just find the attitude unfortunate especially since he is such an interesting young man. But, he is what he learned.

The downside of learning more Spanish is hearing comments one would rather not have understood.

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by DianaT]

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
Great pictures Diane. The desert should be even more beautiful with all the recent rains. Glad your son had a god trip

Roads bad, desert amazingly beautiful and green. There are more flowers in the north and the ones in the south are beginning.

Can't wait to get back down.

Sorry we missed you last time---

El Camote - 3-5-2010 at 10:48 AM

Diana, excellent green desert shots and very fitting visual reference to Dr. Seuss. Coincidentally, his birthday was this past Tuesday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Seuss

Natalie Ann - 3-5-2010 at 10:54 AM

Thanks for taking me along on your great trip, Diane. I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

About those cactus entwining with the mesquite trees. From the Cactus Sanctuary guide I learned that those cactus and trees have an incredible relationship. Entwining with the tree provides support for the cactus, keeping it safe from wind and storm damage. That entwining also provides supports for the mesquite trees to climb and therefore they become taller, too. A mutual 'lean on me' relationship. The guide said that in entirely natural deserts of long ago Mexico, this type of growth was the norm.

And what's really interesting is that over time the mesquite trees sorta meld with the cactus, and cactus sprouts begin to grow right out of the tree. At first I thought the cactus was merely sprouting from 'crotches' in the tree branches, rooting in the accumulated debris. Guide told me not so.... and showed me spots where the cactus was growing directly out of open branches.

Honest to goddess. I'll look for some pix.

nena

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Natalie Ann]

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Camote
Diana, excellent green desert shots and very fitting visual reference to Dr. Seuss. Coincidentally, his birthday was this past Tuesday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Seuss

Thanks for the comments. And yes, we celebrated his birthday by having Green Eggs and Ham for breakfast.

When the son who was with us was young that was his favorite book and I had to read it so many times that I think I still know it by heart!

Loved Dr. Suess,

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann
Thanks for taking me along on your great trip, Diane. I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

About those cactus entwining with the mesquite trees. From the Cactus Sanctuary guide I learned that those cactus and trees have an incredible relationship. Entwining with the tree provides support for the cactus, keeping it safe from wind and storm damage. That entwining also provides supports for the mesquite trees to climb and therefore they become taller, too. A mutual 'lean on me' relationship. The guide said that in entirely natural deserts of long ago Mexico, this type of growth was the norm.

And what's really interesting is that over time the mesquite trees sorta meld with the cactus, and cactus sprouts begin to grow right out of the tree. At first I thought the cactus was merely sprouting from 'crotches' in the tree branches, rooting in the accumulated debris. Guide told me not so.... and showed me spots where the cactus was growing directly out of open branches.

Honest to goddess. I'll look for some pix.

nena

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Natalie Ann]

Hope you find the pix. Love finding out more about the flora---interesting information.

I still, however, think they look like snakes climbing around. :biggrin:

Diane

Martyman - 3-5-2010 at 12:52 PM

Would you eat them in a boat? Would you eat them with a goat?

Diane;
How long does it take to drive from Bahia de LA to Bahia Asuncion? How many hours?

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martyman
Would you eat them in a boat? Would you eat them with a goat?

Diane;
How long does it take to drive from Bahia de LA to Bahia Asuncion? How many hours?

OK, we do not own a stop watch for exact times, nor a gps, and our times always vary. But here goes.

Now, going the way we did this time, we left Bahia Asuncion at 7 AM mas or menos and arrived at Bahia de Los Angeles at 5 PM mas or menos and remember, we got one hour back at the border crossing. So, it was about 11 hours which included at stop at the bank, stop for gas, stop for breakfast, stops for dogs, stops for photos, stops for John's sciatica, stop at the mission, and lots of slow driving due to road conditions and son with front end problems.

Now, going the paved way, it is about 5 hours mas o menos for us with no stops---and we never go without stops.

About 45 minutes from BOLA to the highway. About 1 1/2 hours to Guerrero Negro, 45 minutes to Vizcaino, and a now a good 2 hours to Bahia Asuncion because of the TERRIBLE road out of Vizcaino--I think that adds up.

Again, that is us and does not include any stops.

We know some who do it in far less time----they are the ones streaking past us on blind curves. :biggrin:

And to answer your first question.

I like green eggs and ham!
I do! I like them, Sam-I-am!
And I would eat them in a boat.
And I would eat them with a goat...

And I will eat them in the rain.
And in the dark. And on a train.
And in a car. And in a tree.
They are so good, so good, you see!

:biggrin:

Natalie Ann - 3-5-2010 at 05:45 PM

You know, Diane, that monk's robe really weirds me out. You posted it before and it gave me bad dreams....
like some demented sand jabbie had come to call.

I'm not sure I could take the real life vision of it at San Borja...
but I'm glad you showed me it's there.

btw... posted the cactus/tree pix on another thread so as not to hijack yours anymore. :dudette:

nena

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by Natalie Ann]

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann
You know, Diane, that monk's robe really weirds me out. You posted it before and it gave me bad dreams....
like some demented sand jabbie had come to call.

nena

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by Natalie Ann]

The one I posted before was a photo from before---it was darker and had a lot of noise. I promised myself I would get a new one and did---there are other robes there, but this one just grab me before and had the same effect on me this time---that is why I know the spirit is still in there. I am sure of it. :yes:

Happy dreams and light a candle for Friar Spirit :biggrin:

Going to check out your new thread---looking forward to it.

Diane

BTW, these are all new pix and now I see some I want to play with next time----maybe more monk pictures. :yes:

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]

David K - 3-5-2010 at 06:16 PM

"Since this is a reflection of one's upbringing, I doubt Jose would disapprove. We have seen this same attitude with other members of the family in the past."

Diane, I think that is not nice to paint on Jose... I have been there many times and there never was any such attitude with us... this included trips with other Nomads as well (Bedman, Debra, Sonora Wind, Neal Johns, Amo Pescar, etc.)

There was a lady last July who was in charge of inside the mission tours... she is Catholic...

Jose and family are not allowed to give mission tours because they are not Catholic.

Jose had been hired to do resoration... so maybe after all these months, that Catholic lady is finally consenting to letting Jose's family help her inside the mission grounds.

That lady (don't remember her name) handed us a card that gave donation instructions... I would suspect that she and not Jose is behind the money scam.

Anyway, as I said before... I always like you photos. Thanks.

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
"Since this is a reflection of one's upbringing, I doubt Jose would disapprove. We have seen this same attitude with other members of the family in the past."

Diane, I think that is not nice to paint on Jose... I have been there many times and there never was any such attitude with us... this included trips with other Nomads as well (Bedman, Debra, Sonora Wind, Neal Johns, Amo Pescar, etc.)

There was a lady last July who was in charge of inside the mission tours... she is Catholic...

Jose and family are not allowed to give mission tours because they are not Catholic.

Jose had been hired to do resoration... so maybe after all these months, that Catholic lady is finally consenting to letting Jose's family help her inside the mission grounds.

That lady (don't remember her name) handed us a card that gave donation instructions... I would suspect that she and not Jose is behind the money scam.

Anyway, as I said before... I always like you photos. Thanks.

David,
Please just go away and don't start on me again. You have your experiences, we have our's. I don't give a rip about how you perceive things-- when you go there, share your experiences, and allow us the same right. We ignored what we have seen in the past, and chose not to ignore it now. It has been a part of our experiences there.

You have the right to your opinions, but I am sick of being called a liar, not nice, and other such things by you. I am also sick of your constant lectures about situations about which you know nothing. It happens over and over-- back off.

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]

woody with a view - 3-5-2010 at 06:56 PM

heh, heh!

rts551 - 3-5-2010 at 06:56 PM

That Catholic lady, Huh. Its all her fault and you don't even know her. You dnt like Catholics now?

Quote:

David K - 3-5-2010 at 07:04 PM

That's so freaking funny... How is it that you say I say things, that you can read I didn't say!

I wish you would just lay off the poor Mexicans who have been so nice to everyone else... Making Jose and his kids sound like Gypsies isn't a very amigo thing to do.

Too bad as a guest, you can't be more gracious to this poor family... oh well. I am just trying to be fair to a good family...

rts551 - 3-5-2010 at 07:11 PM

David, How can you say this when you are quoted as saying

"There was a lady last July who was in charge of inside the mission tours... she is Catholic..." and

"That lady (don't remember her name) handed us a card that gave donation instructions... I would suspect that she and not Jose is behind the money scam."

How hypocritical can you get?

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
That's so freaking funny... How is it that you say I say things, that you can read I didn't say!

I wish you would just lay off the poor Mexicans who have been so nice to everyone else... Making Jose and his kids sound like Gypsies isn't a very amigo thing to do.

Too bad as a guest, you can't be more gracious to this poor family... oh well. I am just trying to be fair to a good family...

Some of my best drinking buddies were Catholics

soulpatch - 3-5-2010 at 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
That Catholic lady, Huh. Its all her fault and you don't even know her. You dnt like Catholics now?

Of course I was 10 and they were priests, but what the heck! At least I could hold my booze!

I wonder how long before this post of Diana's post will come down to "Lefty attitudes" and the ruination of America.
:lol:

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by soulpatch]

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 07:15 PM

Quote:

And your accusations and name calling continue---as always. You just cannot resist --- you are a very sad puppy.

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]

k-rico - 3-5-2010 at 07:16 PM

The monk's robe in Diane's photos - wow - spooky. When I saw it I immediately thought

INQUISITOR

Did monks perform those prestigious tasks or were they the domain of priests? The Inquistion did make it to Mexico, I don't know how many people were burned alive tied to a stake because they refused to join the team.

Something that has always bothered me about those old missions. I don't visit them.

UnoMas - 3-5-2010 at 07:18 PM

David,
I have to agree with Diane on this one. You have taken to jumping on everything she posts in some form or another or useing your right wing politics to get her going, why not quit that BS, she seems to have taken to higher ground.
We that live or spend several months out of every year in Baja sometimes see things that the weekend warriors don't or doesn't bother. Imagine every single day dealing where someone has their hand out for money, even coming to your house for some donation or another. Why not just let people be people and not try to correct every thing they post and if you can't play nice just don't play :light:

Diane thanks for the great photo's.....

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
That Catholic lady, Huh. Its all her fault and you don't even know her. You dnt like Catholics now?

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by soulpatch]

Probably very soon

woody with a view - 3-5-2010 at 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
That Catholic lady, Huh. Its all her fault and you don't even know her. You dnt like Catholics now?

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by soulpatch]

Probably very soon

WTF?

i'm lefthanded!

DianaT - 3-5-2010 at 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
The monk's robe in Diane's photos - wow - spooky. When I saw it I immediately thought

INQUISITOR

Did monks perform those prestigious tasks or were they the domain of priests? The Inquistion did make it to Mexico, I don't know how many people were burned alive tied to a stake because they refused to join the team.

Something that has always bothered me about those old missions. I don't visit them.

Yea, that robe does scream out. I tend to think more about some of the very strange friars who ran those missions. Some were very brutal and some were very weird.

I always have conflicted feeling about the whole mission thing because of the reality of what happened back then. While I just love the beauty of the building at San Borja there is always the question of at what human cost.

I am always glad when someone sees something that I saw when I took the photo. thanks

Diane

k-rico - 3-5-2010 at 07:44 PM

Interesting history:

"The Inquisition was never as virulent in Mexico as it was in Spain, where more than 4,000 people were burned at the stake. Many more were imprisoned for the “Jewish Heresy.” Massacres were instigated that took thousands of lives. By contrast, between 1571 when the Inquisition was established in Mexico and 1821 when it ended, only about 110 people were actually burned at the stake. Perhaps the same number died under torture or in prison, either awaiting trial or after sentencing. There were no popular outcries against Jews. The Inquisition was imposed from Spain. It cannot be blamed on Mexicans."

http://mexfiles.net/category/mexican-history-1575-1810-colon...

woody with a view - 3-5-2010 at 08:30 PM

in the early 1800's weren't Mexicans a couple of generations removed from Spain? sorta like some present day Argentinians claiming to have no ties to N-zi's????

shari - 3-6-2010 at 08:48 AM

this is becoming a dilema in remote areas where kids in particular are learning they can get cash from gringos. I have seen kids in our village go up to visitors and say money money and hold their hands out...when I catch them, I always scold them...mala onda muchachos...OR ask them what they will do for the money..."sure we'll give ya money if you wash our car" usaully does the trick. That way they are learning that they just cant ask for money...if they ask and a gringo gives it to em...it's positive reinforcement for that bad behavior...so please dont do it.

Now, for a service this is different of course. In the case of things like escorting one to the highway or someplace...this is a service and should be compensated. ONe good suggestion in mexico is to always ask FIRST what kind of compensation is expected...that way there are no surprises.

When someone says they will give you a ride somewhere...water taxi etc...check first. I have heard of fishermen charging nothing and charging like $60 just for a ride to the beach...so ya never know. A trip out to Vizcaino is generally $100 (not pesos) gas, wear and tear on the vehicle, beer, lunch etc is expensive...so dont expect someone to just offer to take you for nothing...unless they are going anway in which case you should help with gas, beer etc.

I do tire of tourists expecting locals to bend over backwards, running around for them, looking for car parts etc., taking time out of their day to help and then hearing the tourist say..oh wow these people are sooo nice....yeah they are....but some kind of trade...not necessarily money would be nice. In our village people do all kinds of wonderful "favours" and do not always expect compensation...it is just a subtle understaning that one good turn deserves another and one day you WILL indeed return the favour somehow...so that is the way the culture works...but with this new phenomenon of tourists who are here one day and gone the next...it is tricky as they most likely will not get compensated for their good deeds. Most people are pretty good but alot of visitors are just ignorant of how things work...not cheap on purpose. It was OK when there were only a few visitors but with the increase in tourism...things are changing.

I know...I know... they will have the good karma going for them....BUT...I'm just sayin...as tourism increases and they spend more and more time helping out visitors...it becomes an issue.

I understand about Jose's family an their indiscretion talking about money matters...it does leave a bad taste in the mouth and next time I am there, I will have a heart to heart with them about this....which may be a good idea for others...en buena onda plaktica con ellos...those of you who speak spanish and know the family could do it in a nice way...offer some feedback and suggestions on improving their ways...help them improve and not just dis them....remind them nicely or jokingly that you understand spanish and they need to be more discreet when discussing money issues.

Many years ago, we had a long discussion with Jose about tourism and all the services that they offer. I suggested that they needed to be up front and just somehow let people know that donations are gladly accepted for services and the palapas etc. I prepared a flyer for them in english explaining that one could make a dontation to the family for camping, cave paintings etc so that tourists would know. Before they were so shy and wouldnt solicit donations...but with tourists...many times...if ya dont spell it out....they dont get it....they want to see prices on things. But they probably cant really charge as they dont have a company, it's probably ejido land etc.
Jose asked how to go about collecting donations...they couldnt really put a price on things and would rather leave it to the guest to just leave a donation....

Is this making any sense???

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by shari]

k-rico - 3-6-2010 at 08:52 AM

..."sure we'll give ya money if you wash our car"

perfect sense!

rts551 - 3-6-2010 at 09:03 AM

As I understand it from my visits there, Jose's real job is restoration. Would he run afoul of his employers if he starts charging tourists?

shari - 3-6-2010 at 09:06 AM

Jose and family built the palapas and so it's probably Ok to "accept" dontations and maybe not "charge". I believe it's an ejido too so there are issues there as well...it's a slippery slope.

DianaT - 3-6-2010 at 09:42 AM

Since this is turning into ANOTHER thread of lecture to everyone on how they should behave, we are going back and removing our original post---as Grover used to say, leave it an orphan.

We simply shared our experience and a few photos we liked, but we are sick of the lectures.

Thank you to those who simply looked and maybe enjoyed the quick trip and the photos.

John and Diane

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]

rts551 - 3-6-2010 at 09:48 AM

Not neccesary Diane. Your post made good points and had at least some people thinking.

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
Since this is turning into ANOTHER thread of lecture to everyone on how they should behave, we are going back and removing our original post---as Grover used to say, leave it an orphan.

We simply shared our experience and a few photos we liked, but we are sick of the lectures.

Thank you to those who simply looked and maybe enjoyed the quick trip and the photos.

John and Diane

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]

David K - 3-6-2010 at 09:49 AM

Sorry for saying something based on my observations going there many times... I guess it depends on who you are or your attitude if you find people eeking out a living at a tourist destination being 'distasteful' if they ask for a donation for their time with you. But, who really was asking or directing Jose's kids?

What is true is that one's attitude will determin if you enjoy Baja or leave a good impression on the people there. You drive 22 miles over a bumpy road to see a 209 year old church in the middle of nowhere, attitude could play a big roll in the experience.

What I was trying to say (without politics or name calling) was that the one line by Diane made it sound like Jose and his family were beggers or annoying. I didn't say Diane lied, I believe her... it just wasn't too clear who was at fault for this 'feeling'.

For some balance on her experience, I just said that the lady (she mentioned, not Jose's wife) was the one asking the kids to get more money...

I metioned she was Catholic because that's why she was there... since Jose is not Catholic and was locked out of the mission for many years by the priest in Guerrero Negro. That it may have been the same lady who asked us for donations in July. We went to visit Jose at his home afterwards and he didn't ask for a thing... and never has before.

Okay Nomads... facts to think about... I just want you to make an intelligent decision about visiting San Borja, and not wave it off because Diane reported her bad feelings about the place. Not all of us have had a bad time there, most who go there go back again and again...

The people of Baja are having a rough time too, with fewer of us going south.

DianaT - 3-6-2010 at 09:52 AM

Thanks Ralph,

If people want to continue to lecture over and over again, that is OK, but we just don't want it to be a part of a thread that we open. As we are just really sick and tired of it, and sick and tired of all the hypocrisy---something you pointed out in an earlier post.

For us, this thread is now closed.

Look forward to seeing you soon
Diane and John

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]

DianaT - 3-6-2010 at 10:01 AM

For God's sake,

I made a choice to remove my photos, I answer a U2U, check back to see they if I got them removed ---and you do not have the common decency to leave them gone.

I guess that is another area in which you are lacking, common decency.

I will ask the moderator to remove that part of your post and hope that he has the respect for others that you lack.

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]

David K - 3-6-2010 at 10:07 AM

Are you recanting the stuff you said about Jose or did you remove your post to 'punish me' in some way (you know: oh look at wht David K made me do, boo hoo)? This isn't grade school Diane, lets be adults here.

Photos gone? ... I only quoted you with my reply. Why wouldn't you want to show your photos anymore?

Do you want me to edit out the stuff you said about Jose's family in your quote?

Happy to help Diane!

rts551 - 3-6-2010 at 10:13 AM

DK

Do you give lessons on how to ruin a good post.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Are you recanting the stuff you said about Jose or did you remove your post to 'punish me' in some way (you know: oh look at wht David K made me do, boo hoo)? This isn't grade school Diane, lets be adults here.

Photos gone? ... I only quoted you with my reply. Why wouldn't you want to show your photos anymore?

Do you want me to edit out the stuff you said about Jose's family in your quote?

Happy to help Diane!

David K - 3-6-2010 at 10:22 AM

No, I give 'lessons' on the beauty of Baja through photos and accurate data in hopes to inspire fellow adventure seekers to find happiness there, as well.

If I see data that differs with mine, I add mine, for balance not to put down the original words.

I have made an observation about places in Baja and another Nomad will post what he found there... and I don't get upset, say that person called me names, and then remove all my photos...

It's about giving... not taking away, afterall. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by David K]

Natalie Ann - 3-6-2010 at 10:48 AM

David.... The pix belong to Diane and John.
She/they removed them.
You have no right to put them back. Period.

nena

Natalie Ann - 3-6-2010 at 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
The pix are on the Internet, I have nothing to do with that... I did not save them to my computer... check for yourself, they are on photobucket.com.

I quoted her because she statred making up things about me I never said... the photos are in the quote, she later removed her photos (why?).

They are good photos, I am glad she still has them on the Internet... Why not share some good about Baja along with the negative?

Perhaps you don't understand that people's photographs are their private property, David. Likely your neighbor parks his car where you can see it.... that doesn't mean it's yours to drive.

nena

shari - 3-6-2010 at 11:59 AM

oh my...I''m not sure if dianne was referring to my post which I thought was relevant to her post..it was not intended to be preaching or lecturing at all...just hoped to bring some other points of view or insights into this ever growing dilema in remote areas. I thought this board was to share information and ideas.

ONe thing about removing peoples posts, photos etc...once I posted something that was terribly misunderstood and offended some folks so I deleted it...another member had quoted it and I politely asked them via a U2U to also delete it from their post...but I received a lecture on being more responsible for my words....once something is said...you cant take it back...type of scolding. I was quite upset by that...

I personally feel, if you want to delete something you may have said in the heat of the moment...or think better of it later...one should have that option...in my opinion...dont want this to sound like a lecture...it is just my experience and feelings on this subject which may be the subject for a new thread so diannes doesnt get hijacked...
dianne, do you want me to move my post to a new thread on begging for money or something....I thought it was a very relevent observation you brought up and thought it was OK to discuss this issue on this thread.

really enjoyed your artistic photos as always.

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by shari]

shari - 3-6-2010 at 01:25 PM

oh dang....sure wish I'd have copied that last post that has since been removed (sheesh, ya gotta be quick around here) here one minute, gone the next....laughed my white buddist butt off....called sirena in for the day's good laugh and it was already gone....can you maybe email me that funny photo....all in good fun eh!

Mexitron - 3-6-2010 at 01:43 PM

Those pics were lovely Diane--I saw them yesterday but didn't comment. They brought back a lot of nice memories...I think the first year I went there was 1983 in my old 2-wheel drive Toyota...the road was quite the adventure back then...I recall having to make a couple of attempts to get up that little rutted hill past La Higuera!

rts551 - 3-6-2010 at 03:56 PM

You have way overplayed the balance card DK. When you think as a weekend wonder your data is more "accurate" than people who live there, there is about as much balance as we find in our political system.... oh you provide balance there as well. I forgot.

Post more pics Diane!!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
No, I give 'lessons' on the beauty of Baja through photos and accurate data in hopes to inspire fellow adventure seekers to find happiness there, as well.

If I see data that differs with mine, I add mine, for balance not to put down the original words.

I have made an observation about places in Baja and another Nomad will post what he found there... and I don't get upset, say that person called me names, and then remove all my photos...

It's about giving... not taking away, afterall. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by David K]

Skipjack Joe - 3-6-2010 at 04:56 PM

I've been attracted to the mission ever since seeing this image made of it by Eliot Porter. Hopefully some day I will be there when the light is just right and duplicate his results.

san borja.jpg - 49kB

Diver - 3-6-2010 at 05:04 PM

How about a vote ?
Who else thinks Dk is an immature, thick-skulled burro ?

I did not say "burro", I said jacka$$.

[Edited on 3-7-2010 by Diver]

shari - 3-6-2010 at 09:28 PM

skipjack...that is a really neat photo taken before the restoration of the cupola above the door....the first time I saw this mission was when they started to restore it....must have been more than 10 or maybe 15 years ago now...when was that photo taken??

UnoMas - 3-6-2010 at 09:48 PM

Although I have said before, DK is a wealth of info on Baja and do appreciate his Love and passion for it, I sometimes feel he over steps his bounds with his comments on other's posts and there is no need to interject his political views. This is supposedly an informative board on Baja and sometimes I think this can be as disruptive as many of the troll's we see. Baja Nomads is far from the place that it once was from all of this, I see many people that have quit posting over the way things have progressed, so for the sake of this great site why not try to keep to task and not try to go tit for tat over someone elses post or politics. It is O.K. to see things different than someone else. :light:

Let us enjoy what others have to say with out the negative, take it or leave it.................

Skipjack Joe - 3-6-2010 at 09:55 PM

1964 or 1966 - I can't remember what I read.

He published a book on baja for the Sierra Club and the mission was on it's back cover as I recall. Krutch collaborated on the work. Krutch's Forgotten Peninsula is one of my favorite books on baja.

David K - 3-7-2010 at 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
1964 or 1966 - I can't remember what I read.

He published a book on baja for the Sierra Club and the mission was on it's back cover as I recall. Krutch collaborated on the work. Krutch's Forgotten Peninsula is one of my favorite books on baja.

The book is 'Baja California and the Geography of Hope' c1967 Large hardback and a smaller softback edition also was made. Inside was Arnold Senterfitt's Airports of Baja map.

(fyi, you who love to jump without knowing all the facts in this thread: there was no politics involved... unkind things were said about a local Mexican family and I stood up for them, with details that should have received a thanks, not a temper tantrum and removal of photos... that is all)

longlegsinlapaz - 3-7-2010 at 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
ONe thing about removing peoples posts, photos etc...once I posted something that was terribly misunderstood and offended some folks so I deleted it...another member had quoted it and I politely asked them via a U2U to also delete it from their post...but I received a lecture on being more responsible for my words....once something is said...you cant take it back...type of scolding. I was quite upset by that...

I personally feel, if you want to delete something you may have said in the heat of the moment...or think better of it later...one should have that option...in my opinion...dont want this to sound like a lecture...it is just my experience and feelings on this subject which may be the subject for a new thread so diannes doesnt get hijacked...

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by shari]

Since Diane's thread has already been thoroughly trashed beyond redemption, I figure a little more unvarnished honesty here wouldn't be out of line. Therefore, I do hereby plead....
Guilty as charged!

Shari, yet another hard lesson you're going to have to learn in life is if you're going to chose to play the "Oh, poor me pity card", then it's usually wise to have the common decency to relate the entire truth on the subject, rather than just that which makes you look lily white!

Following is EXACTLY what I wrote to you....please note, I'm showing some level of respect/restraint by not posting your portion of the U2U....including the part where you admitted what you'd originally publicly posted was true! If, in the interest of full honest disclosure, you'd like me to post the original U2U in it's entirety, I'd be happy to.

"Shari, you can't "unring a bell". You said it & it's been read by 99% of the people who'll ever read it. I sincerely doubt that "some folks totally misunderstood" your response to the following post:

Quote:
Originally quoted post deleted by me for this post....

But that's what your original post SAID! You can't have it both ways. You need to either reread your words before you hit the post button & stand behind your words...or not post them in the first place. You can't "unring the bell" by trying to make your words disappear when you get called for having put them in print in a public forum in the first place.

Shari, NO ONE mistook your meaning! And apparently, as things evolved, you were correct in your original assertion that "many people will just be out there to see what they can scavenge for themselves". I'm confused why you'd think "it's not cool to mention this stuff." since it turned out to be exactly what happened, and you've since posted that fact! Your prediction was correct after all!

IMO, what's "not cool" is to post something in a public forum & then try to make others appear stupid by accusing them of "misunderstanding/taking your meaning the wrong way" when they clearly read your words in the exact way you wrote them. You KNEW EXACTLY what you were saying or you wouldn't have prefaced your statement with "forgive me..."

When I began this response to your U2U, I wasn't sure whether or not I'd be willing to erase your words from my original post. As I've composed my response, I've come to the conclusion that I will not alter my original post by removing your quote. Your prediction came true. Your original post was quoted by others besides me, so it would serve no purpose for me to alter my original post."

shari - 3-7-2010 at 02:54 PM

please dont yell at me legs...how do YOU know if people misunderstood my post or not...you can only understand for yourself, not the reset of the human race. I deleted my post because I didnt want it misunderstood by some and didnt want to offend publically some people who took offence to my post....even if it was true. It was my choice and i had my own reasons that you may never understand or appreciate. I am not lily white nor claim to be but I do try to do what's right and fair.
the point is if one wants to delete something...for whatever reason...I believe that they should have the right to have it disappear...whether you think so or not.

soulpatch - 3-7-2010 at 03:01 PM

Unless my wife makes me

I leave my posts as originals unless I add something or correct some grammar or spelling.
I figure this is the right thing to do. Even after exhibiting the side of me that is a completely obtusebuttcrack...... you get to see all sides that way. Whatever.That is just my little personal code of honor. If you meet me you will find that I am not wart free but they are always out there without there being a secret about my feelings.
If I take the time to type it I am surely feeling it at the time...even when beer is a play.

longlegsinlapaz - 3-7-2010 at 03:18 PM

This is a sincere question....

What did you propose to do about THE OTHER POSTERS WHO HAD ALSO QUOTED YOUR ORIGINAL POST????

You missed one of my key points then & you're still missing it or chose to ignore it. What earthly good would it have done for me to have removed your quote from my post while other posts which also quoted it remained in place? :?:

Truly harsh fact of life, but you simply cannot "unring the bell", especially once you choose to post words for all the world to see. I agree with you that anyone has the right to delete their post if they change their mind for whatever reason....they'd just better do it before multiple people quote their words!

It's like the old carpenters adage...."Measure twice, cut once!" Reread your words before you hit the post button, because the written word forever reverberates through internet time!

woody with a view - 3-7-2010 at 03:23 PM

edit: to delete23 words......

take it to U2U at this point.

[Edited on 3-7-2010 by woody in ob]

Uh-oh.....

bajaguy - 3-7-2010 at 03:29 PM

Quote:

It's like the old carpenters adage...."Measure twice, cut once!"

Dang, that's the problem....I have always been measuring once and cutting twice!!!!!

shari - 3-7-2010 at 04:12 PM

legs, I imagine I didnt see others who reposted it or I certainly woul have asked them to remove it as well...i really cant remember that long ago. at the time I asked you to remove it, it was most likely the only one up at the time....then since you chose not to...what would be the point of others removing it anyway.
there seems to be alot of deleting of posts all the time...why dont you yell or lecture to the others?

Ladies, ladies .... please

Skipjack Joe - 3-7-2010 at 04:37 PM

You are, after all, the gentler sex ...

catfight2.jpg - 49kB

shari - 3-7-2010 at 05:05 PM

awwww comeon skippy...you know how much nomads enjoy a public flogging...especially on sundays!!! :yawn:

longlegsinlapaz - 3-7-2010 at 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
...why dont you yell or lecture to the others?

Because no one other than you shot a totally biased & less than honest salvo over my bow today.

Shari, you knew you were tempting fate when you made your recent post....you asked for it & much to your dismay, I simply set the record straight.

Trust me, I'm not yelling....but I may be lecturing because I think there's an important message you missed....be certain you're willing to suffer the potential consequences of your posted words before you hit the post button.

Skipjack, my claws are now sheathed....unless & until another salvo is fired! :spingrin: