BajaNomad - Dateline NBC 3/5/10 9pm PST (2 hours)- Kidnapping and Corruption in Mexico

Dateline NBC 3/5/10 9pm PST (2 hours)- Kidnapping and Corruption in Mexico

Woooosh - 3-5-2010 at 09:36 AM

I saw this couple on the Today show this morning. They were warned by Mexican authorities last month not to talk to the media- but they have anyway. They felt the crime wasn't solved, so not talking about it has served no purpose. He was abducted in 2007, held in a box for 7 months, shot and tortured- with photos and notes sent to the wife stateside all along demanding a $9 Million ransom. A chilling story- not only on the human and abduction/kidnapping side, but about the systemic corruption and flawed systems that prevent Mexico from moving forward. That is the part that interests me personally.

No it's not Baja- it is all of Mexico.

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/03/02/22163...

Donjulio - 3-5-2010 at 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
I saw this couple on the Today show this morning. They were warned by Mexican authorities last month not to talk to the media- but they have anyway. They felt the crime wasn't solved, so not talking about it has served no purpose. He was abducted in 2007, held in a box for 7 months, shot and tortured- with photos and notes sent to the wife stateside all along demanding a $9 Million ransom. A chilling story- not only on the human and abduction/kidnapping side, but about the systemic corruption and flawed systems that prevent Mexico from moving forward. That is the part that interests me personally.

No it's not Baja- it is all of Mexico.

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/03/02/22163...

True -its all of Mexico. And the US, France, England, Russia, Germany, Asia, Africa, and, and, and, and...

Woooosh - 3-5-2010 at 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio

Quote:

True -its all of Mexico. And the US, France, England, Russia, Germany, Asia, Africa, and, and, and, and...

To keep a shred of credibility you should watch it first, and then comment on what other counties are comparable. I'm waiting- so should you.

I do think Mexico tried to stop this story for a reason, but we'll see.

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Woooosh]

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 3-5-2010 at 12:45 PM

Hola,

Woooosh, thanks for the heads up. will definitely watch the program tonite.

knew about all the corruption forever but never heard about the kidnapping/ransom demand in 2007. we saw another kidnapping story about a couple and their daughter in the rosarita beach ( ? ) area on tv about two months ago.

as you say, let's watch and see and then comment, or not.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

Bajahowodd - 3-5-2010 at 02:41 PM

Thanks for the heads up, too. We do not usually watch that show, and probably would have missed it.

DENNIS - 3-5-2010 at 02:46 PM

I'll have to set my alarm.

capt. mike - 3-5-2010 at 04:05 PM

face it - mexico is corrupt - always has been and always will be.
like the frog and the scorpion fable....it is their nature.

but that is in part of why i like it...the little bit of danger and intrigue - like no real rules - you are on your own, make your deals etc.
the shades of the old west.

Woooosh - 3-5-2010 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
face it - mexico is corrupt - always has been and always will be.
like the frog and the scorpion fable....it is their nature.

but that is in part of why i like it...the little bit of danger and intrigue - like no real rules - you are on your own, make your deals etc.
the shades of the old west.

I felt exactly that way when I was young and down here with friends looking for trouble and donkey shows... only found one. That's why I still wish the younger nomads and newbies well on their surfaris and road trips. Chances are they will have a great time- so why ruin it for them. Back in the old days a run in with the local Barney Fife's and paying a mordida here and there was part of the charm and attarction of it all. You still get to be a bad-boy and feel free (of lawyers at least)- like 50 years ago NOB.

[Edited on 3-5-2010 by Woooosh]

woody with a view - 3-5-2010 at 06:36 PM

yeah, Whoosh, that's part of the allure.

no big deal if you publicize what a POS your country is. mine sucks, too!

each has to make peace with their demons every time they cross the border. i keep wondering if my time will come? when i was a kid Barney Fife was a regular part of the entertaining stories. nowadays, entertainment takes on a whole new meaning!!!!

25 years later we keep searching, yearning for more......

100_6054 (Small).jpg - 27kB

WELL .....??

djh - 3-6-2010 at 12:46 AM

Who watched it ?

Comments ?

DENNIS - 3-6-2010 at 06:53 AM

I tried. Commercials drove me nuts. First hour was good, but I'll have to catch the second hour on a re-run.

Bob and Susan - 3-6-2010 at 07:38 AM

i tried too...

i was bored after 5 minutes

watched a "desparate housewives" rerun instead

k-rico - 3-6-2010 at 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Commercials drove me nuts.

I bet! The network probably made a fortune on the commercials.

"If it bleeds it leads."

Let me guess, the commercials were for depression medicines and home security systems.

Pain, horror, terror, tragedy, sorrow.

Order a pizza, make some popcorn.

That's entertainment!!

lizard lips - 3-6-2010 at 08:04 AM

Slept right through it.....

SDRonni - 3-6-2010 at 08:31 AM

Wow, not sure how to respond to these reactions. This family went through hell. I'm surprised at the responses only talking about the commercials. Heck, get a DVR and fast forward through them. This story is horrifying, no way to deny that, and IMO one that should have been told.

DENNIS - 3-6-2010 at 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SDRonni
Wow, not sure how to respond to these reactions. This family went through hell. I'm surprised at the responses only talking about the commercials. Heck, get a DVR and fast forward through them. This story is horrifying, no way to deny that, and IMO one that should have been told.

OK...So, tell us how it played out.

vandenberg - 3-6-2010 at 09:00 AM

Well, my take on this.
Family was portrayed as an average Mexican family with the husband ,at one time, from a rich one. Looking at the "Hacienda" style house they lived in, the buildings (school) they built on their acreage, the domestic and other help they employed, try telling this to the average Mexican. Even to me they would qualify as "very well-to-do".
Also, their new domicile in the States would attest to that.
Also, there was actually never any referrence to how these folks made a living. Their lifestyle would appeal to most folks.
This doesn't take away from the horror of the event, the cruelty of the captors, nor the ineptness of law enforcement, but, realisticly, doesn't much apply to the common man.
Anyway, being in that area of the country for 2 weeks next month, I told my better half, "No matter what happens"
"DON"T PAY THE RANSOM" :biggrin:

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by vandenberg]

k-rico - 3-6-2010 at 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SDRonni
This story is horrifying, no way to deny that, and IMO one that should have been told.

I've had enough horror this week watching the San Diego news.

DENNIS - 3-6-2010 at 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
I've had enough horror this week watching the San Diego news.

You must be watching the Chargers dismantle themselves. :lol:

I Have To Agree With You

Bajahowodd - 3-6-2010 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Well, my take on this.
Family was portrayed as an average Mexican family with the husband ,at one time, from a rich one. Looking at the "Hacienda" style house they lived in, the buildings (school) they built on their acreage, the domestic and other help they employed, try telling this to the average Mexican. Even to me they would qualify as "very well-to-do".
Also, their new domicile in the States would attest to that.
Also, there was actually never any referrence to how these folks made a living. Their lifestyle would appeal to most folks.
This doesn't take away from the horror of the event, the cruelty of the captors, nor the ineptness of law enforcement, but, realisticly, doesn't much apply to the common man.
Anyway, being in that area of the country for 2 weeks next month, I told my better half, "No matter what happens"
"DON"T PAY THE RANSOM" :biggrin:

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by vandenberg]

In no way was this a typical Mexican family. In fact, I have to wonder about the back story of how they came to be featured in this show. He looked wealthy and connected. That said, it still was a horrible experience for all.

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by Bajahowodd]

DianaT - 3-6-2010 at 02:42 PM

Quote:

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by vandenberg]

Very well said. Their lifestyle was not the average lifestyle. It was an interesting show and it always amazes me how cruel the human race can be.

Now as far as you go, would it be like a remake of "Ruthless People"? It was a great movie and while kidnapping is not funny, that movie was hilarious.

And when you are there, you might be interested it driving out to Pozos---as of a couple of years ago, it was just beginning to be restored and outside of the town there are the ruins of many old Spanish Haciendas. Interesting place and is all that area.

BTW, I fell asleep before the end of the show----the commercials come closer together toward the end.

[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]

Woooosh - 3-6-2010 at 02:47 PM

Yeah- it wasn't what I expected either... on a couple levels. As others have posted, this was far from being anything a day tourist or something the average Mexican would run into. These people were targeted and watched closely for a long time- even her weird name (Jayne) was spelled correctly by the kidnappers.

They claimed they had no money for the ransom and built their home little by little from ruins. It was a beautiful hacienda with servants and a charter school on the grounds they set up for like-minded parents in the area. You know many people who add a school to their compound and still claim to be poor? The wife sold "everything of value she could" including his prized horses and raised just $20K- yet she had a chartered helicopter standing by for the rescue. A couple anonymouse friends eventually put up a six-figure ransom. The kidnapped man was a regular on local talk shows- but no one missed him for 6 months? The couple never went public locally so no one knew he had been kidnapped.

The story claimed a brand new hammer left inside the smashed kidnap window was a "calling card" for a specific uber-violent kidnap gang. That gang routinely cut off fingers- this guy got shot in the thigh and bicep- both times passing straight through the skin without hitting bone or anything vital. It wasn't the hammer gang who took them or he would have been called lefty and would not have lasted six months.

They allluded that federal police were behind the whole thing and were even the ones who took the ransom money in Mexico CIty and kidnapped the money-drop guy they sent (also a federal agent disguised as a college-student type). OK- that's probably true.

They hid in the USA for two years- doing what? And then they returned to lavish parties and their friends back in Mexico. They finaly left their Mexican hacienda for good after his private rail car was vandalized while the Dateline film crew was there filming the show. That could have been done by anyone who didn't like an American camera crew bringing shame to their city. Their house was in perfect conditon after sitting empty for two years (unless the paid that domestic staff to watch it- and then it still would have been emptied by then). Why the rail car and not the house?

As i watched this (yes it was hard with all the commercials and repeat information), nothing added up and it created more questions than it resolved for me. Who is the Mexican kidnapped guy and what does he do to have a hacienda, private school, beautiful horses a private rail car- but no job or family money? The wife worked as an actress years ago- but she claimed to "only have the little money we have in our checking accounts".

I don't get it...

arrowhead - 3-6-2010 at 03:14 PM

I didn't see it, but I don't understand why everybody is breathing a sigh of relief. The lifestyle described here is very typical of Americans who have retired in Mexico. So, why does everybody think it is a special situation distant from them?

Vandenberg lives in an upscale golf course condo in Napolo. How different does he appear to a typical Mexican mucoso than the people in the story? You people are just rationalizing.

DENNIS - 3-6-2010 at 04:02 PM

I'll wait for the movie to come out. One thing for sure, Babe the wife can thank Gawd she wasn't snatched. [ooops....wrong word?]

There You Go Again

Bajahowodd - 3-6-2010 at 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
I didn't see it, but I don't understand why everybody is breathing a sigh of relief. The lifestyle described here is very typical of Americans who have retired in Mexico. So, why does everybody think it is a special situation distant from them?

Vandenberg lives in an upscale golf course condo in Napolo. How different does he appear to a typical Mexican mucoso than the people in the story? You people are just rationalizing.

Seriously. You post many relevant issues on this forum. I just don't fathom why you need to get into personal stuff. I suppose that many of us with an IQ above the triple digit line, could easily determine where *** lives. But to constantly post this sort of information about numerous board members only makes sense if one were to conclude that you had a major personality disorder. Go ahead and flame me if you wish. But in all the time I've been hanging around here, I have to conclude that you have posted much more relevant and important info, that becomes diminished by your personal attacks. I understand that this post was not particularly revealing. But it still takes it's place with some of the more blatant ones. I love much of what you post. Informative and relevant. Why not try and stifle that itch that puts you over the line? And for the record, it's Noplolo.

[Edited on 3-7-2010 by Bajahowodd]

DENNIS - 3-6-2010 at 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
And for the record, it's Noplolo.

Whooooops. I'll say it before A-Head gets ahold of it. NOPOLO. You owe me one.

[Edited on 3-7-2010 by DENNIS]

arrowhead - 3-6-2010 at 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Seriously. You post many relevant issues on this forum. I just don't fathom why you need to get into personal stuff.

OK, Howodd, let me understand where you are coming from. You are upset because I said Ed lives in Nopolo, even though he has it clearly displayed under his avatar in 3,253 places on this message board?

Here's another unknown about Ed. He puts his pants on one leg at a time.
:lol:

Woooosh - 3-6-2010 at 08:59 PM

Quote:

No kidnapping is acceptable and I don't want to come off sounding like blaming the victim. I was disappointed that if they were going to accuse the federal police of doing the crime from start to finish- why not just come out and say it and then back it up with something more than: a new hammer, a hostage with no missing fingers and a police car hanging around the ransom drop-site. But once you do accuse them of the crime- it's time to leave Mexico and the trashed train car (the only thing left of his family fortune) was what they used to explain that. And where was HIS family in all of this- nowhere. No mention. His father was the "Randolph Hearst of Mexico" (her words) and not a peep out of them or a peso of support? The pieces just didn't fit well with me.

[Edited on 3-7-2010 by Woooosh]

arrowhead - 3-6-2010 at 11:03 PM

Looks like the video is up on the MSNBC website.

Aqui son verdadero mexicanos, luchando por su patria.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35730726#35732677

[Edited on 3-7-2010 by arrowhead]

Woooosh - 3-7-2010 at 09:21 AM

On the bright side of travel to Mexico... There was absolutely NO mention of Baja on the Today show Sunday about where in Mexico to safely send your kids for spring break. They put up graphics about cartel activity that did not include Baja. They did not mention any Mexican resorts by name that students should avoid- just common sense travel tips that would apply anywhere (travel in groups of at least three, do not leave resort areas, watch your drink, be careful who you associate with, make copies of travel documents). So it's not an NBC conspiracy for Spring Breakers at least...

It was interesting the security guy interviewed (from livesecure.org) mentioned many experts thought Mexico could become a narco-state within a few years. He said the "armies" of the two major cartels (100,000) was almost as big as the Mexican army itself (130,000). He went on to say Mexican nationals deal with a host of security problems including kidnappings and specifically mentioned in February a priest was killed during a robbery and a person had a hand grenade taped around his neck. I don't know if any of that is accurate- but it's what they reported.

[Edited on 3-7-2010 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 3-7-2010 at 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
just common sense travel tips that would apply anywhere (travel in groups of at least three, do not leave resort areas, watch your drink, be careful who you associate with, make copies of travel documents).

Amazing how things have changed. When I had to prepare for spring break in Mexico, my most thoughtful consideration was how often I was going to get layed.

capt. mike - 3-7-2010 at 10:29 AM

i say the guy himself was behind it hoping to get $$ from HIS side of their extended family.
a plot that failed.

the harmless flesh wound gun shots and lack of REAL separated digits clues me in.

even Clyde Barrow took off a toe himself just to get out of a work detail... :wow:

Dateline got suckered.
a foolish storyline. a soap opera like plot. Fodder to propigate the "mexico is a dangerous place" myth people will watch like so much Weekly World News articles...and advertizers will support by buying air time.
there are plenty of rico legitimate American expat targets living in Miguel Allende, Alamos Sonora and Guadalajara before settling in on this Antonio Banderas look alike wanna be... :biggrin:

arrowhead - 3-7-2010 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
i say the guy himself was behind it hoping to get $$ from HIS side of their extended family. a plot that failed.

the harmless flesh wound gun shots and lack of REAL separated digits clues me in.

Mike if you wear this hat, it will stop the government from reading your thoughts.

BillP - 3-7-2010 at 12:39 PM

With some of the crap they've pulled in the past, I don't find Dateline credible, they're not know for their journalistic integrity.

True Enough

Bajahowodd - 3-7-2010 at 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BillP
With some of the crap they've pulled in the past, I don't find Dateline credible, they're not know for their journalistic integrity.

20/20 falls into the same category, but it's especially true at Dateline since they have to do several hours a week AND attract an audience. Much of it is also due to the fact that they can fill those hours at a much lower cost than using entertainment shows.

Nope

Bajahowodd - 3-7-2010 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Seriously. You post many relevant issues on this forum. I just don't fathom why you need to get into personal stuff.

Here's another unknown about Ed. He puts his pants on one leg at a time.
:lol:

Obviously, everyone can plainly see where Ed lives. I was referring to this:

"Vandenberg lives in an upscale golf course condo in Napolo. How different does he appear to a typical Mexican mucoso than the people in the story? You people are just rationalizing."

On the other hand, maybe I was feeling a bit testy at the time. PAX.

arrowhead - 3-7-2010 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
"Vandenberg lives in an upscale golf course condo in Napolo. How different does he appear to a typical Mexican mucoso than the people in the story? You people are just rationalizing."

On the other hand, maybe I was feeling a bit testy at the time. PAX.

PAX. Ed has mentioned here exactly what condo he lives in and how to find it on several occasions. I did not go into that detail.

flyfishinPam - 3-7-2010 at 02:49 PM

Napolo! that's classic. love it! :lol:

edit to get used to this new spelling

[Edited on 3-7-2010 by flyfishinPam]

Bajahowodd - 3-7-2010 at 03:36 PM

Style points deducted for bad spelling?? :yes:

vandenberg - 3-7-2010 at 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
Ed has mentioned here exactly what condo he lives in and how to find it on several occasions. I did not go into that detail.

Like to know how you came up with that one.
I wouldn't live in a condo/townhouse if you gave me one. :no:

BTW, I still have a panga for sale. Had several folks interested, but had to go north on some business and couldn't follow up.
Back now though.
And for more personal inf. my phone # 613 133-0343. :biggrin:

No kidnappers.

arrowhead - 3-7-2010 at 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Like to know how you came up with that one.
I wouldn't live in a condo/townhouse if you gave me one

Well if I told you how I came up with it, it would give your location. But try to remember when you were telling somebody here where your house was in relation to a certain tee on a certain golf course. Don't know about it being a condo, I just know what most of the homes look like in the area.