BajaNomad - Loreto need planes

Loreto need planes

ligui - 3-19-2010 at 07:25 AM

If people can't get to loreto with their wallets they can't help get the local economy going . :tumble:

Give me a good deal on a ticket and i'll come down and spend some cash . Used to fly to cozumel for 200 us round trip from denver , always spent close to a 1000 for diving ,hotel , food ,cab , etc.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g150772-i879-k3335541-G...

Free flights from L.A ? :bounce:

capt. mike - 3-19-2010 at 08:33 AM

join BBP for $50 a year. there are MANY non pilots who join just to get ride shares.
happens all the time, 4000 members going to baja and mexico frequently - i e - several trips a year.
i have helped many hook up ride shares there and they all say the $50 bucks already paid for itself splitting gas to XXXXX and skipping the airline shoe and bag dance... :barf:

jodiego - 3-19-2010 at 08:38 AM

OK Captain Mike. What is BBP and how do you join?

capt. mike - 3-19-2010 at 08:45 AM

www.bajabushpilots.com

the LARGEST association and lobby for Mexican flying enthusiasts since the 60's.
even has Mexican nationals as members

2 sections - one public with lots of free very COOL stuff.

one for members only with MORE COOLER stuff...and the discussion forums open to members only, weeds out all the nincompoops who aren't willing to spend less than $5 a month to participate!! :lol:

that's like one starbucks grande vente goochie poochie latte karatay! :rolleyes:

ligui - 3-19-2010 at 09:22 AM

Thanks Mike , as i go down by myself most of the time that looks like a great new adventure . I 'll be looking into it . :bounce:

Was leading to the Govt. in mexico would help with the cost of planes to bring down the ticket price . They are spending alot to make loreto a nice place to come visit , how about alittle help to get there .

CaboRon - 3-19-2010 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ligui
If people can't get to loreto with their wallets they can't help get the local economy going . :tumble:

You have got the cause and effect backwards .....

There is no service because the airlines were flying half empty ....

airmech - 3-19-2010 at 01:11 PM

We could do charter flights to anywhere/anytime if it weren't so expensive and difficult to deal with the Mexico authorities. bg

ligui - 3-19-2010 at 01:21 PM

Hello Ron , I know why the planes have been cut back , they are flying half full . I think everyone knows that .

Have you ever been to a marketing class ? Las vegas ? Cheap fares bring wallets .

Bajahowodd - 3-19-2010 at 01:22 PM

CaboRon is right about that, but maybe it was a stretch to say half-empty. It was only a few years ago that at least three US airlines were flying there. It also raises the cause and effect issue when one considers the Villa Group project at Ensenada Blanca. They're gonna have loads of time share rooms to peddle, and it's awfully difficult to sell sight (and site) unseen.

Pescador - 3-19-2010 at 02:04 PM

Half full is not acccurate at all for the month of March and most of April. You can not buy, beg, or steal a ticket until almost the end of April. So they were full, but it sure didn't bring the price down a centavo.

Bajahowodd - 3-19-2010 at 02:12 PM

Why would they lower their price if they can run full at full fare? Also note that they are even flying smaller planes than they used to. There's a big difference between three airlines flying 120 seat planes to Loreto every day, and one airline flying 1000 seat plane 3-4 times a week. What with high fuel prices, continuing operating losses, I don't see the business model changing anytime soon where fares will be bargains.

For an example, keep an eye on the fares from LAX to SJD. The bean counters will release a bunch of seats on a few selected flights at bargain fares only when it becomes apparent that the plane is not going to fly full. So, while usual price on that route hovers around $375, I've seen it as high as $600 and as low as $270. But remember, many airlines and many seats flying that route.

ligui - 3-19-2010 at 02:46 PM

Look Guys , i'm saying , there are only acouple of planes , most of the time half full because of the high price , yes at high season they will be full.

When loreto bay was trying to sell their lots they helped pay for the planes to come down . Cheap airfare and lots of more planes , and more walletes.

ligui - 3-19-2010 at 02:50 PM

Isn't this fun ? :bounce:

BajaBlanca - 3-19-2010 at 03:31 PM

:lol:

monoloco - 3-19-2010 at 03:51 PM

Be careful what you wish for, more flights mean more people, some of us came to Baja because there were few people, and would like to see it stay that way.

Bajahowodd - 3-19-2010 at 03:58 PM

It's the Hobsen's choice for Loreto. Very likely Villa Group will do something to subsidize fares. However, from everything I've read, and from the folks I've talked to in Loreto, maybe a little bit more tourism is ok, but alot not so ok. I'm reminded of a number of posts I've read from folks living in Mulege. A primary reason for them being there is the isolation. So, it kinda looks to me like it's a gringo v. chamber of commerce fight in Loreto. If I had a business in Loreto, I'd want the most traffic I could get. If I was an ex-pat seeking tranquility, just the opposite.

ligui - 3-19-2010 at 06:40 PM

Bajahowodd , bulls-eye :spingrin:

capt. mike - 3-19-2010 at 06:48 PM

"one airline flying 1000 seat plane "

is that the new Boeing 797 i heard tell about???
jeeze... by the time they get everyone on board and seated you could damn near drive there. :wow:

Airmech.....i think we have it figured out pardner....

ligui - 3-19-2010 at 06:53 PM

Baggage charge would pay for the gas ............. :tumble:

CaboRon - 3-20-2010 at 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
"one airline flying 1000 seat plane "

is that the new Boeing 797 i heard tell about???
jeeze... by the time they get everyone on board and seated you could damn near drive there. :wow:

Airmech.....i think we have it figured out pardner....

That equipment would require a seven thousand foot landing strip :lol:

capt. mike - 3-20-2010 at 07:20 AM

from BBP

"Just checking to see if anyone is planning a trip to Mulege between March 26 and April 2. My 13 year-old son and I would like to contribute to expenses if you're going.

Absolutely no commercial flights available into Loreto from the States. I've been checking for the last month and 3 weeks ago the only accommodation was "1 seat from LAX to LTO on the 9th and 1 seat from LTO to LAX on the 25th". Hard to believe that Alaska/Horizon wouldn't add a few flights. Had to fly to Los Cabos and rent a car to get to Mulege last week - not an experience I'd care to repeat."

so - that's wassup amigos....
he'll get a private flight for sure.

bajabeachbabe - 3-20-2010 at 08:19 AM

Just arrived in Loreto yesterday on the Horizon flight. Of course it was totally full. I had expected that almost everyone on the flight would have been residents rather than tourists. I was pleasantly surprised to find that many of the people sitting near me on the plane were tourists on their first visit to Loreto. That was good news. That being said, I think many of them were on prearranged package trips and had transportation from the airport planned in advance.

As we left the terminal and headed to one of the yellow vans to go into town, I noticed that there were almost 5 vans lined up and from the entire plane only 5 passengers needed a van (my husband and I and a family of 3) which didn't even fill one van. This is the harsh reality from the downsizing of the planes into Loreto. No one can get here at any price!

We are soon to be part-time residents and had planned to take our son with us this trip as he was on Spring Break, but we got the last two seats on the plane. I booked this trip back in January!

Hotels are sitting empty as people cancel their reservations when they can't get a flight. No visitors, no business for restaurants, etc. The streets are noticeably empty. This situation is bad business for everyone. Alaska is losing a huge opportunity, as I heard that most flights are already booked through the end of May! Perhaps it is time for us to speak with our online pens.

I became aware of a website where you can create online petitions. A group of LaPaz gringos from Canada currently have a petition going to request WestJet (a Canadian airline that flies direct to Cabo from Calgary) to begin direct flights to La Paz). I had let one of the hotel owners in Loreto know about this petition website, hoping that they would pick up the opportunity to have their voices heard, but nothing has happened yet.

Anyone want to take up the campaign? The website is:
http://www.petitiononline.com/

Don Alley - 3-20-2010 at 08:31 AM

I've flown Alaska for years, to and from Loreto, Kalispell, and Medford. I have their credit card and mileage plan.

Last quote for a flight: $800+ just for the Loreto/LAX segment.

Apparently, that flight is now full. Someone else bought that ticket while we booked an alternative out of Cabo instead.

Congratulations on your short term profit, and say goodbye to a former satisfied customer who will continue to shop for alternatives.

capt. mike - 3-21-2010 at 07:39 AM

airlines are not going to run at a loss.

Loreto built that HUGE new terminus....

now what??

new pilot training ab initio starts have been down for many years - i just heard that trend is now reversing - which is big for GA industry.

forward thinking people with means are tired of the bag and shoe dance courtesy of DHS...with attractive leases and MACRS 5 year depreciation..getting in to a nice 4 seat single makes a lot of financial sense today.
for some that is. :lol:

fuelpusher2 - 3-22-2010 at 06:05 PM

Alaska stopped flying their larger passenger planes into LTO last year tomove them to more profitable routes....like Hawaii. Only Horizon comes into LTO from LAX but with smaller 70 passenger planes. As we speak, the smaller planes are coming in and leaving FULL and over booked. Book early and there isn't an issue....but they are pricier than they used to be.

We understand that the Loreto hotel association is working hard to get Aero Mexico to resume the SAN-LTO-Mexico City route they had when it was subsidized by Loreto Bay 5 years ago. Wouldn't be surprised if the Villa Group is also working to the same goal.

Phil C - 3-23-2010 at 04:34 AM

That SAN-LTO- DF flight was a good one. about half the people were LTO bound the others got to clear customs in LTO rather than Mexico City, thats got to be a bonus! Kept that flight prety full.

Pompano - 3-23-2010 at 05:43 AM

I used to fly LTO but no more..much cheaper and always seats available to and from San Jose del Cabo. I just booked a seat from Rome-Miami-LAX-San Jose..no problemo. That whole ticket ..about 7000 miles..with an Alitalia discount..is less than what Alaska wanted for LAX-Loreto.

Loreto via Alaska/Horizon is too much of a ripoff for me.

capt. mike - 3-23-2010 at 07:34 AM

aha!! busted!!
that "co-piloto" of yours is actually a line pilot with Alitalia, and she is getting you her jump fare discount!!
and you are hopping onto the train at LAX!

very cool roger. :cool:

Bajahowodd - 3-23-2010 at 11:43 AM

Villa Group is going to have to do something. They will need a great deal of traffic to their site if they are going to sell units. Busing folks up from Cabo won't work. They already have hundreds of rooms throughout Mexico, and they could probably use their existing customer base by giving incentives like two for one for folks willing to trade. But it won't sell units. One reason that Cabo exploded was affordable and convenient flights.

bajabeachbabe - 3-23-2010 at 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fuelpusher2
Alaska stopped flying their larger passenger planes into LTO last year tomove them to more profitable routes....like Hawaii.

Funny how that worked. We flew over Christmas to and from Hawaii with Alaska and the flight home from Kona to Seattle was half empty. I don't ever recall any of the Alaska flights we have taken from Loreto being that empty. Seems they made a bad switch if that is the case. Hawaii tourism is down too.

bajamikey - 3-23-2010 at 10:23 PM

Last month. LAX to San Josa,Costa Rica R/T $375.00 total on U.S airways. June 15th Alaska, LAX to LTO R/T $505.00

capt. mike - 3-24-2010 at 06:52 AM

what is "villa group"

Villa del Palmar Loreto

bajabeachbabe - 3-24-2010 at 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
what is "villa group"

Here is the link to the website for the new development south of Loreto in Ensenada Blanca. Villa Group is a huge timeshare company in Mexico.

http://www.villadelpalmarloreto.com/

ligui - 3-24-2010 at 08:20 AM

Your kidding , mike ?

http://www.villadelpalmarloreto.com/

capt. mike - 3-24-2010 at 08:28 AM

no - i don't follow it and didn't know.

fuelpusher2 - 3-31-2010 at 09:36 PM

I CHECKED THE VILLA GROUP WEBSITE AND I THINK THEY ARE A BIT OPTOMISTIC.

"By Air - Regular flights to Loreto’s international airport can be found through AeroMexico, Aerocalafia, Continental, Delta, and Alaska Airlines and has one hour flights from San Diego."

THAT'S NEWS TO ME.....I LIVE IN SAN DIEGO AND THERE ARE NO FLIGHTS DIRECT TO LORETO FROM SAN DIEGO.......YET. AND DELTA & CONTINENTAL DON'T FLY INTO LORETO AT ALL ANYMORE.

"Major cities with normal flights into Loreto are Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Tucson, Houston, Mexico City, La Paz, Los Cabos, and Herrmosillo."

"By Sea - The majestic Puerto Escondido is located just eight minutes south of Loreto and is the best location to drop anchor."

SOMEBODY DOESN'T KNOW THEIR GEOGRAPHY. PUERTO ESCONDIDO IS 16 MILES - 30 MINUTES SOUTH OF LORETO BY BOAT.

capt. mike - 4-1-2010 at 04:53 AM

as Gomer once said...."sloppy, sloppy sloppy..." :lol:

Bajahowodd - 4-1-2010 at 04:16 PM

However, one should not underestimate this very successful developer. Their property by the glorietta across from the bus station on Salvatierra is now open, after a number of years of very slow construction. Not totally sure about the reason for its existence, but I would bet the farm that there will be timeshare presentations there. It's called Hotel Santa Fe. It's next to Domingo's Place and Hacienda Suites. they are certainly not going to sell many units at Ensenada Blanca without increasing traffic to the area. So, I have to believe they will strike a deal with one or more airline to subsidize fares and increase flights. The link posted above is outdated. But if you Google Villa Group, you'll see that they have successful projects throughout Mexico.

oladulce - 4-1-2010 at 06:42 PM

I've been looking at flights out of Loreto recently also and thought I was entering something wrong on the online flight search- holy cow! I can get all the way from Cabo to Cincinnati for the same price as Loreto to LAx- $700.

I bet it irritates the heck out of you guys who live in Loreto with the airport in your backyard, and those in Mulege who have to drive right by it in search of a more reasonable alternative.

But 16 hrs is way too much to ask my husband to endure for one day's drive to drop me off. I bet we'd easily spend $250 on fuel for him to drop me off and pick me up in San jose and maybe hotel costs if we couldn't do the turn-around in one day. So there are some added expenditures .

Loreto is so much more convenient - if I could even get a seat.

For now, I refuse to pay that much and may investigate how painful it would be to take a bus from Constitución to SJD.

capt. mike - 4-1-2010 at 08:59 PM

ola dulce - if i couldn't fly - i would be glad to take the ABC luxury coach liners to SJDC.
i hear they are nice, AC and movies!!

pacside - 4-2-2010 at 11:43 AM

What a ripoff to fly into Loreto. The airlines play games with their fares. One thing Alaska is doing (and possibly others) is they are guarenteeing a credit if you buy your ticket and the fare goes down prior to your flight.

Recently booked these fares all NON-STOPS:

United SFO-SJD $138
Continental SJD-Newark, NJ $245
United JFK-SFO $125

Agree with previous poster...car rentals are a rip off. Happy to get in my old truck and get on out of town. Wish I could figure out how to get my Telcel 3G modem working without having to stop at the Cabo Telcel store where they are always able to turn it back on for a few hundred pesos. Heard there's a way to add pesos to the Telcel 3g account via a mx bank account but haven't tried to figure that out.

pacside

Bajahowodd - 4-2-2010 at 12:54 PM

The Loreto problem is not unlike what affected many small cities in the US years ago. Short flights to and from small towns were hugely expensive. Southwest Airlines stirred things up quite a bit with the proliferation of affordable short haul flights. That said, if there was demand present in Loreto, wouldn't you think Mr. Slim's Volaris would be moving in?

oladulce - 4-3-2010 at 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7

If you're going to Cincinnati, forget LAX and look for domestic flights from Loreto that connect with US flights from Mexico City, Guadalajara, etc.

Kate

I'm not sure there are any flights to Mexico City or GDL from Loreto-maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Flying out of La Paz wouldn't be bad at all, but I'm beginning to see why people don't mention it often. It's still hundreds of $$ more, and more travel time involved than Cabo to reach US destinations from Mexico City.

One example:
La Paz - Mexico City- Cincy $800-900 dollars 12-15 hours travel time
SJD- Dallas- Cincy $500 5.5 hrs

Any secrets to flights out of La Paz- airlines, days of the week, other Mexican stopovers to consider, etc ?

capt. mike - 4-4-2010 at 06:00 AM

just got from a friend who wants to go to mulege next week.
he lives in Denver.
this is the hoop HE has to deal with and how much he's spending cause his plane is in the shop. i think he is nutz.... nucking futz to be exact.
but - if you saw the home he just bought you'd understand. :bounce:

"Hey Mike,

Just wanted to let you know that I'll be in Mulege April 6. Actually got a flight into Loreto from LAX for $810. Total cost roundtrip from Denver $1130!
Hopefully, I'll run into you at Serendidad."

whaaaaaat??!!!

he could have ridden with me for something less.... :light:

...but my seats are full already fo my april 8th dep to mulege. :spingrin:

[Edited on 4-4-2010 by capt. mike]

BajaBlanca - 4-4-2010 at 12:11 PM

wow....Les isn't here to confirm but I believe that's more than we paid to fly LAX - London last year - round trip ...wow

more flights to Loreto

Worldtraveller - 5-17-2010 at 01:55 AM

Alaska Airlines just added a new flight between LA & Loreto on Saturdays beginning in November. Operates with Horizon 70-seat jet. Also looks like fares have come down a bit. Hopefully, it fills up so that they will decide to add more service from LA and elsewhere.

[Edited on 5-17-2010 by Worldtraveller]

CaboRon - 5-17-2010 at 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Worldtraveller
Alaska Airlines just added a new flight between LA & Loreto on Saturdays beginning in November. Operates with Horizon 70-seat jet. Also looks like fares have come down a bit. Hopefully, it fills up so that they will decide to add more service from LA and elsewhere.

[Edited on 5-17-2010 by Worldtraveller]

Horizon does not fly jets .....

It flys the Bombadeer , which is a prop driven plane ....

Interestingly enough, it is manufactured in Canada :wow:

Bob and Susan - 5-17-2010 at 05:54 AM

looks like a jet to me...

Bombardier.jpg - 33kB

capt. mike - 5-17-2010 at 06:25 AM

the Bombadeer

that's what the N-zis did in Finland during WWII.

mtgoat666 - 5-17-2010 at 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Horizon does not fly jets .....

It flys the Bombadeer , which is a prop driven plane ....

cabobob:
how dare horizon change their fleet without asking your permission?

El Camote - 5-17-2010 at 10:07 AM

I think he meant to say Bombardier, which is an aerospace manufacturing company, not a single plane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Aerospace

just keeping it real. :smug: