BajaNomad

settle a discussion on Japanese long liners

capt. mike - 3-21-2010 at 07:22 AM

i say they have in recent past been illegally fishing in mexican or SOC waters.
yes or no??

other guy does biz with Japanese and claims that is simply "not in their character".

well.....????????:?:

mtgoat666 - 3-21-2010 at 08:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
i say they have in recent past been illegally fishing in mexican or SOC waters.
yes or no??

other guy does biz with Japanese and claims that is simply "not in their character".

well.....????????:?:


well, they kill whales for food market, and justify it by calling it "research." they also kill dolphins for food. what does that tell you about character of fishermen?

btw, no culture is immune from illegal fishing practices.

wessongroup - 3-21-2010 at 09:08 AM

Just loved the approach on the decision by CITES Appendix I for the Atlantic Blue Fin.. rather then deal with the concept of "endangered" they just called it an "extinct" species.. therefore no fishing restriction can apply to a species which is extinct.. so one can fish for them...

Isn't the law just wonderful in action... gives one hope.. for that "ray of hope", if you know what I mean...

[Edited on 3-21-2010 by wessongroup]

Russ - 3-21-2010 at 09:20 AM

Yes .... But that's an opinion not a fact.
What would stop them from fishing Mexican waters? Long lines, seiners or trawlers, there's not much enforcement and it's a big area.

What Russ said.

Pompano - 3-21-2010 at 09:48 AM

Illegal fishing "not in their character" ?...commercial fishermen? Mike..of you know better, of course, and I will assume you are playing Devil's Advocate here.

I saw plenty of illegal Japanese commercial fishing in Alaska home waters during the 70's and 80's.

Of course, they COULD have just been lost...all 20 of them...for a few years...in the same place over and over again. :rolleyes:


I am just now engaged in a home project involving lots of old Baja movie film. Burning those tapes onto discs. I have lots of 8mm film of Japanese (and others) in the SOC from 1973-1989 hauling tuna out by the hundred-ton. Helicopter spotters and purse seiners , though - no longliners that I saw here back then. Overfishing and illegal fishing is old news here, business as usual.... and I gave up filming them years ago. Nobody cared then when we complained 'back in the day'..and the same goes on now...but we still complain to whomever is listening.

805gregg - 3-21-2010 at 07:13 PM

When I drove down the newly paved road in 1973 the Japenese were raping the SOC with large processing ships. Just killing everything and processing it right on board. They probably had permits, and some Mexican's hands got greased, but what a shame.

mulegemichael - 3-21-2010 at 08:34 PM

it's still happening, folks...yep...

Pompano - 3-22-2010 at 06:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mulegemichael
it's still happening, folks...yep...


Yep..the other day at the entrance to Conception Bay..and here I thought it was a maritime park. :rolleyes:



Of course. Business as usual, Mike. Every day..every year. It happens here...it happens in Alaska. It happens in Antartica. Nothing has changed since man discovered he could sell a fish.

But keep let's keep shouting into the wind anyway...sooner or later somebody will hear.

capt. mike - 3-22-2010 at 11:09 AM

i don't think as yet anyone has said that yes the Japaneze/banzai!!! are long lining in Mex / SOC waters.
so i can't respond to him - what is worse? long lining 50 miles worth or dragging the bottom? - i don't know - both sound bad to me.

he's the one that says it would be out of character. he does a multi milllion a year import biz with them and is in their country constantly.
of course i know the Japanese fish world wide.
i think his point is - they would have permits or authority or something on that level.
i don't know - we were at dinner at Scottys friday before they flew out sat and that's when we were having the table discussion.
i told him i'd ask a few that might know.

he paid handsomly for a busted plane rescue....i have no dog in a fight here.
just curious.
i thot ling lining was mainly for sword fish???

Timo1 - 3-22-2010 at 11:35 AM

Mike
I know of 2 metheods of long-lining
Floating gear-Used mainly for pelagics (marlin , sailfish etc.)
Sinking gear-Used for grouper and shark primarily
So ALL the bases are covered
Also everything in between is suseptable

[Edited on 3-22-2010 by Timo1]

Joelt - 3-22-2010 at 02:31 PM

If the Mexican longliners are selling the fish to Japan, isn't that the same as the Japanese doing it themselves? They just don't have to have their boats there.

BajaBruno - 3-22-2010 at 09:49 PM

It seems awfully unlikely that the Japanese would illegally fish Mexican waters. Where is the motivation? The SOC has been netted so heavily the last few years that there is no incentive to risk having a ship impounded and the crew arrested.

The Japanese have enough money to fish legally in enough places to make it unnecessary to fish illegally. They don't like bad publicity (i.e. Toyota recalls) and unlike American executives, Japanese CEO's actually take responsibility for the actions of their underlings--to the extreme in many cases, by killing themselves. They are serious people.

I'm not really a Japanophile, but they are, very quietly, the second biggest economy in the world. They are not the same guys we knew from the cheap toys they sent over here in the 1950's, or the shoebox cars they sent here in the 1970's. They are a world economic powerhouse who do not like publicity nightmares like having your fishing fleet arrested. Give those folks some credit or you severely underestimate them.

mtgoat666 - 3-23-2010 at 06:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBruno
It seems awfully unlikely that the Japanese would illegally fish Mexican waters. Where is the motivation? The SOC has been netted so heavily the last few years that there is no incentive to risk having a ship impounded and the crew arrested.


Commercial fisherman are the same around the world.

If there is no or inadequate enforcement, many fishermen will take the risk and fish illegally.

p.s. you can't compare large corporations like toyota to small businesses like commercial fishing boats

capt. mike - 3-23-2010 at 06:59 AM

"you can't compare large corporations like toyota to small businesses like commercial fishing boats "

i doubt very much that any company that can afford to send boats all around the world to fish - which is HUGE industry , is small.

Doug/Vamonos - 4-4-2010 at 08:06 AM

Keep on buying your Toyotas and Hondas and Hyundais and Lexus and Infiniti. You want to hurt them...buy American. And I don't care if the Toyota or Honda or Hyundai is made in the US. The profit still goes back to Japan or Korea. You can't keep them from destroying the worlds fisheries. But you can keep you money out of their pocket.

Doug/Vamonos - 4-4-2010 at 01:48 PM

And when you buy that american car or truck, send a copy of the receipt to all of them with a note saying you bought american because of japanese and korean fishing and whaling practices. And you'll never buy from them again.

Bajahowodd - 4-4-2010 at 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Doug/Vamonos
And when you buy that american car or truck, send a copy of the receipt to all of them with a note saying you bought american because of japanese and korean fishing and whaling practices. And you'll never buy from them again.


Man, I love the sentiment. But, I fear that the boat has already sailed. There's a bunch of "American" vehicles that are made outside the US. Global corporations do as they like. Maybe we could boycott sushi.

TMW - 4-5-2010 at 09:09 AM

Well that does it I'm not buying whale meat. I'll show em.

TMW - 4-5-2010 at 09:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Doug/Vamonos
Keep on buying your Toyotas and Hondas and Hyundais and Lexus and Infiniti. You want to hurt them...buy American. And I don't care if the Toyota or Honda or Hyundai is made in the US. The profit still goes back to Japan or Korea. You can't keep them from destroying the worlds fisheries. But you can keep you money out of their pocket.


On the flip does that mean the American car companies should not sell outside the U.S.?

wessongroup - 4-5-2010 at 11:29 AM

Makes one think, what if we had lost WWII....

TMW - 4-5-2010 at 07:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Makes one think, what if we had lost WWII....


We would be eating sushi and Kobe beef and drinking saki or we would be having a October beer fest every month after we march like good little boys and girls should do.

While at the time it appeared dark and unknown to the people in the U.S. and free world the people in the know in the Axis powers knew a sleeping giant was awakened and they were doomed. The Axis countries imported their oil and steel for the war effort. The only thing that could have saved the Axis was if Germany developed the Atom bomb first. The rest is history. The dumb little dictator in Germany should have listened to his generals and been more patience.

clubfred - 4-9-2010 at 09:24 PM

Hi Capt Mike! Just saying hi! Been awhile. Hope all is well :)

Kristene

Skipjack Joe - 4-9-2010 at 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Makes one think, what if we had lost WWII....


Neither Germany nor Japan ever really had a chance. It's one thing to win battles and another to hold the territory. Germany never even got to the 2nd step. We can't even control Afghanistan so how did anyone expect Germany to prevail over Europe. The Third Reich was nothing more than a dream (costing the Russians 20,000,000 lives). The only way to build an empire like that is to acrue it very slowly or to defeat a people whose weaponry is greatly inferior to your own (Romans vs barabarians, Ghengis Khan vs far east tribes, British vs East India, etc.).