BajaNomad

Bribery study in Mexico says police the problem

arrowhead - 3-26-2010 at 09:36 AM

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/25/bribery-study...
Quote:
Bribery study in Mexico says police the problem
By ALEXANDRA OLSON, Associated Press Writer

Thursday, March 25, 2010 at 4:43 p.m.

MEXICO CITY — Police are the biggest culprits when it comes to demanding bribes in Mexico, a study on corruption says.

The questionnaire and analysis, conducted by the U.S.-based BRIBEline, found that 85 percent of bribe demands came from people associated with Mexico's government. Forty-five percent of total demands came from police, 12 percent from federal government officials and the rest from local officials, the judiciary, the military or ruling party officials.

Published Thursday, the Mexico analysis was based on 151 reports received from July 2007 to January 2010.

"The rate of extortion demands in Mexico is very high, and the level of police extortion is high," said Alexandra Wrage, president of the nonprofit association TRACE International that set up BRIBELINE and helps companies combat bribery. "This is sort of frightening."

The BRIBEline Web site, available in 21 languages, was set up in 2007 and allows people around the world to anonymously report bribe requests, using a multiple choice questionnaire. The goal is to study bribe patterns in countries around the world.

Almost 50 percent of Mexican respondents said extortion was the purpose of bribe demands, including payment to avoid harm to personal or commercial interests. Less than 30 percent said they were asked to pay bribes to get preferential treatments, such as winning business contracts.

BRIBEline does not measure how widespread bribery is any country, but other studies have said it is pervasive in Mexico.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon has acknowledged that police corruption is entrenched. Since he took office in late 2006, thousands of police officiers have been arrested or fired for corruption, including ties to drug cartels and other criminal gangs.

About 65 percent of the bribe requests in Mexico were for less than $5,000. Wrage said that would make it difficult for a company to track how much money it loses to bribes.

More than 60 percent of Mexican respondents said they were asked to pay the same bribe repeatedly over the course of a year.

Mexico's Interior and Public Safety departments did not respond to requests for comments on the report.


Be sure to read the reader's comment from our own Bajagringo, who insists that Mexico cannot hold a candle to the level of corruption in the US. Like I've been saying all along, Mexico is chock full of America-hating Americans.

Woooosh - 3-26-2010 at 09:40 AM

Looks like Janet got unjustly pounded today by the Union Tribune editorial staff...

"Napolitano off base in comments about battle against cartels

Homeland Security Secretar y Janet Napolitano has a knack for sticking her foot in her mouth. Even in an administration where high-level officials starting with Vice President Joe Biden are known to say the wrong thing into open microphones, Napolitano's special gift is that she charges into very sensitive areas and then, with reckless abandon, utters insensitive remarks. In the process, she takes an already tense situation and increases the tension. When she is not falsely claiming that some of the 9/11 hijackers came to the United States across the Canadian border, or proclaiming that “the system worked“ after the attempted bombing of a jetliner on Christmas Day was averted by quickthinking passengers, Napolitano makes time to alienate one of our closest allies and a full-fledged partner in one of the most important armed conflicts in the history of the hemisphere: the Mexican War against drug cartels.
When Napolitano was asked during a recent interview on MSNBC what could be done to prevent additional drug violence, like the killing of three people connected to the U.S. consulate in Ciudad Juarez, she said: “President Calderón of Mexico has been deeply involved, even sending in the military into Juarez. That hasn't helped.“

Come again? The Mexican government's decision to use the military to fight, capture and, if necessary, kill druglords hasn't helped? The military's seizure of millions of dollars of cash and drugs hasn't helped turn up the pressure on the drug traffickers? Mexican officials, who are already under tremendous pressure, were understandably upset at having their efforts criticized as inadequate. And, they noted, the Mexican military has scored some impressive takedowns of high-level cartel chieftains, including leaders of Tijuana's Arellano Félix organization and the killing of Arturo Beltran Leyva during a raid last year on an apartment in Cuernavaca. Other important arrests followed.

How could Napolitano say something so foolish? From her office on the Potomac, she evidently can't see what has been helpful in Mexico and what hasn't been. Of course, the Mexican military can't prevent every act of violence, any more than U.S. intelligence agencies can prevent ever y act of terrorism. Yet imagine what the situation would look like if this battle was being carried out solely by Mexico's local law enforcement, which is often corrupt or outgunned or both. Also, Napolitano must have forgotten that Calderón is a friend and ally, and that President Barack Obama has committed himself and his administration to helping Calderón win the drug war, and that Congress has promised $1.4 billion in aid to Mexico through the Merida Initiative. This week, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton lead an unusually large delegation of senior administration officials to Mexico City, and pledged even more support for Calderón's war against the cartels.

Napolitano should choose her words more carefully in the future or her future in government service could be short-lived."

monoloco - 3-26-2010 at 09:54 AM

I guess it depends on how you look at corruption. Most of the corruption in Mexico is petty compared with the multi-trillion dollar daylight robbery by bankers that took place in the US with the collusion of government and the Federal Reserve. In the US corruption is more institutionalized and not as in your face.

Lobsterman - 3-26-2010 at 09:59 AM

Good point!

Those Wascally Bankers

MrBillM - 3-26-2010 at 10:00 AM

Have you noticed that Loco can work the evil conspiracies of American and International Bankers into ANY subject ?

You might be discussing the best cleaner to rid your toilet bowl of its brown ring and he could bring those evil Bankers in.

Those Birchers ARE focused.

monoloco - 3-26-2010 at 10:05 AM

So MrBill, you don't think that there was corruption involved with the current banking scandals? Maybe it was all just a big mistake that no one could have seen coming.

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by monoloco]

arrowhead - 3-26-2010 at 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
So MrBill, you don't think that there was corruption involved with the current banking scandals? Maybe it was all just a big mistake that no one could have seen coming.


Well, you obviously have no clue as to the meaning of the word "corruption". Let us review:

Corruption: lack of integrity or honesty (especially susceptibility to bribery); use of a position of trust for dishonest gain.

Now as to monoloco's argument, one could say that what happened to the economy in the US was a combination of patronage, greed, stupidity and neglect. Corruption does not come under that. No government official or investment banker was paid under the table to make a mortgage where the borrower was not qualified. Instead, the government, specifically the Democrats, rewrote the mortgage underwriting guidelines at Fannie Mae so more people could qualify to buy a house. People who should never have qualified for a mortgage. Furthermore, no government official was paid under the table to do something that he was supposed to do anyway.

What we have here is called a classic "Red Herring Argument", or "Ignoratio Elenchi." The name of this fallacy comes from the sport of fox hunting in which a dried, smoked herring, which is red in color, is dragged across the trail of the fox to throw the hounds off the scent. Thus, a "red herring" argument is one which distracts the audience from the issue in question through the introduction of some irrelevancy. This frequently occurs during debates when there is an at least implicit topic, yet it is easy to lose track of it. By extension, it applies to any argument in which the premises are logically irrelevant to the conclusion.

So, all the BajNomads can either stick to the subject of the thread, or they can run off after that red herring and discuss monoloco's new theme about the problems he sees with the US.

By the way, here is an extra credit test for monoloco. Who was it that said: ¡Ya basta de corrupción!

a. Abraham Lincoln
b. Miguel de Cervantes
c. Felipe de Jesús Calderón Hinojosa

monoloco - 3-26-2010 at 11:06 AM

It is corruption when politicians and government officials neglect to enforce laws
or due the bidding for commercial interests that are not in the public interest to be rewarded later with plumb jobs in the industry they aided. Do you not think that there was a quid pro quo when Robert Rubin left his position at Citi to be Treasury Sec and cheer lead the abolition of Glass/Stegall (that Citi was already out of compliance with) then resigned to go back to Citi Group where he made 10's of millions of dollars? This is only one example of the kind of high level corruption that exists in our government's incestuous relationship with banking and industry. Just because they are way more clever and organized than taking envelopes full of cash under the table doesn't make them any less corrupt

monoloco - 3-26-2010 at 11:12 AM

As far as Ya basta de corruption, I am sure it's be said by many.

Who's Being Anti-semantic?

Bajahowodd - 3-26-2010 at 11:50 AM

I suppose one could throw ethics and morality into the stew, as well.

BajaBruno - 3-26-2010 at 12:50 PM

It may be important for some to understand that the BribeLine/Trace information is a report, not a scientific study. Voluntary reports on a survey site are not considered reliable by any researcher. They may indicate certain trends, but there is no way to determine the significance of the data, except to say that some people were asked for a bribe on some occasion.

There is no way to determine the prevalence of the problem, or even the extent, since many people are happy to pay bribes to escape punishment or regulatory obligations, some don't have access to the internet or know about the reporting opportunity, and there is no control group to know how many people are not asked for bribes.

These kind of reports generate a lot of sensationalism, but not much useful data.

Bajahowodd - 3-26-2010 at 12:51 PM

Good point. And, unfortunately, the back bone of the internet.

arrowhead - 3-26-2010 at 01:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
It is corruption when politicians and government officials neglect to enforce laws...


Still chasing that red herring?

arrowhead - 3-26-2010 at 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBruno
There is no way to determine the prevalence of the problem, or even the extent...


Your statement is catagorically untrue. There is a large volume of research in this area. Try reading this report (by Mexicans):

http://www.yale.edu/macmillan/mexicosdemocracy/sandoval.pdf

...or look at this report:

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/...

This is a very well studied area. You should see how many Spanish language studies there are on this subject.

Manzanas, Naranjas y Otras Frutas

MrBillM - 3-26-2010 at 01:23 PM

It's just that Loco and his fellows in the Welch Warrior Legion zero in on a particular favorite subject such as "International Bankers" and attempt to drive every discussion, no matter how unrelated, back to that single obsession.

Now, MOST of us wouldn't think that say, Gustalfo Gordo Gonzales' corrupt act in accepting a Pig Taco or a Pole Polish from Juanita Maria Esperanza Burrita down at "s y Mas" was a result of Citibank's activities in derivatives, but those in the Loco Legion could explain where that was the case and, in fact, was determined back in 1916 before Gustalfo or Juanita were around.

WHATEVER the question, the answer lies with the Bankers. And, of course, Bush.

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by MrBillM]

BajaGringo - 3-26-2010 at 01:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Be sure to read the reader's comment from our own Bajagringo, who insists that Mexico cannot hold a candle to the level of corruption in the US. Like I've been saying all along, Mexico is chock full of America-hating Americans.


Sorry to ruin your day but that must be another BajaGringo. I don't even have an account there to log on and comment. As far as "American-hating Americans", you seem to be holding that title down all on your own based on the endless flaming posts and accusations you seem to hurl at anyone/everyone who fails to share your point of view here on the forum.

But have a nice day regardless...

:rolleyes:

Donjulio - 3-26-2010 at 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
So MrBill, you don't think that there was corruption involved with the current banking scandals? Maybe it was all just a big mistake that no one could have seen coming.


Well, you obviously have no clue as to the meaning of the word "corruption". Let us review:

Corruption: lack of integrity or honesty (especially susceptibility to bribery); use of a position of trust for dishonest gain.

Now as to monoloco's argument, one could say that what happened to the economy in the US was a combination of patronage, greed, stupidity and neglect. Corruption does not come under that. No government official or investment banker was paid under the table to make a mortgage where the borrower was not qualified. Instead, the government, specifically the Democrats, rewrote the mortgage underwriting guidelines at Fannie Mae so more people could qualify to buy a house. People who should never have qualified for a mortgage. Furthermore, no government official was paid under the table to do something that he was supposed to do anyway.

What we have here is called a classic "Red Herring Argument", or "Ignoratio Elenchi." The name of this fallacy comes from the sport of fox hunting in which a dried, smoked herring, which is red in color, is dragged across the trail of the fox to throw the hounds off the scent. Thus, a "red herring" argument is one which distracts the audience from the issue in question through the introduction of some irrelevancy. This frequently occurs during debates when there is an at least implicit topic, yet it is easy to lose track of it. By extension, it applies to any argument in which the premises are logically irrelevant to the conclusion.

So, all the BajNomads can either stick to the subject of the thread, or they can run off after that red herring and discuss monoloco's new theme about the problems he sees with the US.

By the way, here is an extra credit test for monoloco. Who was it that said: ¡Ya basta de corrupción!

a. Abraham Lincoln
b. Miguel de Cervantes
c. Felipe de Jesús Calderón Hinojosa


This has truly got to be one of the most ignorant and idiotic agruments against this point that I have seen. If you think the economic collapse wasn't orchestrated you are just plain ignorant. Your college education and law degree doesn't even enter into the equation.

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by Donjulio]

monoloco - 3-26-2010 at 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
It's just that Loco and his fellows in the Welch Warrior Legion zero in on a particular favorite subject such as "International Bankers" and attempt to drive every discussion, no matter how unrelated, back to that single obsession.

Now, MOST of us wouldn't think that say, Gustalfo Gordo Gonzales' corrupt act in accepting a Pig Taco or a Pole Polish from Juanita Maria Esperanza Burrita down at "s y Mas" was a result of Citibank's activities in derivatives, but those in the Loco Legion could explain where that was the case and, in fact, was determined back in 1916 before Gustalfo or Juanita were around.

WHATEVER the question, the answer lies with the Bankers. And, of course, Bush.

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by MrBillM]
Come on now, we are talking about corruption here, surely you don't think that it's a coincidence that the guys who run the Fed and Treasury reads like the Goldman Sachs reunion list. It's not just banking though, I'm pretty sure some nice favors get done to facilitate defense dept. contracts, and all those high paid lobbyists on the hill are mostly all ex-congressmen or staffers. If anyone thinks that there isn't high level corruption in the US government they are living in la la land.

BajaBruno - 3-26-2010 at 01:58 PM

arrowhead, I was referring to the BribeLine/Trace methodology--and not that it was impossible to determine those factors from a properly designed survey. I wasn't even saying that bribery doesn't exist--just that BribeLine/Trace internet surveys are not the way to determine it. Proper research has been done, but it is pseudo research like BribeLine/Trace who get the press coverage. Please excuse me if I was unclear.

JESSE - 3-26-2010 at 02:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/25/bribery-study...


Be sure to read the reader's comment from our own Bajagringo, who insists that Mexico cannot hold a candle to the level of corruption in the US. Like I've been saying all along, Mexico is chock full of America-hating Americans.


Your such an idiot.

Woooosh - 3-26-2010 at 02:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Have you noticed that Loco can work the evil conspiracies of American and International Bankers into ANY subject ?

You might be discussing the best cleaner to rid your toilet bowl of its brown ring and he could bring those evil Bankers in.

Those Birchers ARE focused.


well - it isn't like the bankers don't deserve it although I thought most of the money has already been re-paid with interest.

Woooosh - 3-26-2010 at 02:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Be sure to read the reader's comment from our own Bajagringo, who insists that Mexico cannot hold a candle to the level of corruption in the US. Like I've been saying all along, Mexico is chock full of America-hating Americans.


Sorry to ruin your day but that must be another BajaGringo. I don't even have an account there to log on and comment. As far as "American-hating Americans", you seem to be holding that title down all on your own based on the endless flaming posts and accusations you seem to hurl at anyone/everyone who fails to share your point of view here on the forum.

But have a nice day regardless...

:rolleyes:


nice, subdued classy response- we need more of that here.

:saint:

monoloco - 3-26-2010 at 03:08 PM

Most of the money has not been paid back, most of the money went to bail out AIG, which means that it went to banks around the world through the back door with Goldman receiving the bulk of it. The banks have mostly paid back the payments they have received directly, probably with money borrowed from the Fed at 0 interest.

woody with a view - 3-26-2010 at 03:23 PM

while they sit on tens of thousands of homes in a supposed "short sale" situation. if they put them on the market the recovery would be like a 12 year old boy's reaction to his first Hustler! straight up!!!

but they sit there holding on to those properties so they won't have to take a hit on their bottom line!!!!

F)CK THE BANKS AND BANKERS!!!!!

oh, and did anyone see AIGs stock was up some 1500% late last year? convenient, no?

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by woody in ob]

arrowhead - 3-26-2010 at 03:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Sorry to ruin your day but that must be another BajaGringo.


Jeeze, I'm not sure the planet is ready for two BajaGringos, both with the same attitude towards the US.

:rolleyes:

SO ? Loco ?

MrBillM - 3-26-2010 at 03:30 PM

Since the thread was regarding Mexican Corruption,What is the likelihood that reforming the Banking system would inspire the Mexican Police to go straight and reject corrupt activity ?

On a scale of Zero to Ten ? - 0.1 ? OR, not that good ?

Next time I get stopped by the policia, should I point out that the REAL problem enticing them to solicit Mordida is the fault of American and International Bankers ?

Urge the officer to forsake his wayward corrupt life and become an example of righteousness for his fellow officers ? By doing so, he'll show that he's not a pawn of an International Conspiracy ?

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by MrBillM]

arrowhead - 3-26-2010 at 03:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBruno
arrowhead, I was referring to the BribeLine/Trace methodology--and not that it was impossible to determine those factors from a properly designed survey.


Sorry. Mea culpa.

arrowhead - 3-26-2010 at 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
If you think the economic collapse wasn't orchestrated you are just plain ignorant.


arrowhead - 3-26-2010 at 03:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Your such an idiot.


Nadie es profeta en su propia tierra.

longlegsinlapaz - 3-26-2010 at 03:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
.........Like I've been saying all along, Mexico is chock full of America-hating Americans.


Arrowhead, you've used the term "American-hating Americans" fairly frequently....could you share your definition of what type of character trait, specific type of comment, action, or whatever else prompts you to classify someone as "American-hating Americans"?:?::?:

arrowhead - 3-26-2010 at 03:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Arrowhead, you've used the term "American-hating Americans" fairly frequently....could you share your definition of what type of character trait, specific type of comment, action, or whatever else prompts you to classify someone as "American-hating Americans"?:?::?:


No. You're just looking for a fight. Besides you already know the answer. But, now you can run over to Bajagabacho's board and do three pages of posts on me. That will keep you entertained for a few hours.

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by arrowhead]

DENNIS - 3-26-2010 at 03:48 PM

:lol::lol::lol: That takes all the fun out of it, doesn't it. :lol::lol::lol:

longlegsinlapaz - 3-26-2010 at 04:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Arrowhead, you've used the term "American-hating Americans" fairly frequently....could you share your definition of what type of character trait, specific type of comment, action, or whatever else prompts you to classify someone as "American-hating Americans"?:?::?:


No. You're just looking for a fight. Besides you already know the answer. But, now you can run over to Bajagabacho's board and do three pages of posts on me. That will keep you entertained for a few hours.

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by arrowhead]
You're mistaken....that was a sincere question.....prompted by my curiosity.

Don't flatter yourself....I've never done 3 pages (2 pages, or 1 page!) of posts dedicated to you anywhere ever, nor am I likely to.

Bajahowodd - 3-26-2010 at 04:12 PM

Perhaps, in the panoply of financial companies, AIG stands alone. A prior post did mention that many, if not most of the companies that received TARP funds, have paid them back. The most compelling reason for them to do so was to get the feds off their back, so they could resume their unsavory practices without oversight. That said, as much as 101% of Americans probably despise AIG, their bailout was probably the single most important aspect of the program. They were either allowed to, by lack of regulation or oversight, infiltrate their tentacles throughout the world's financial system. The fact is that AIG was probably the singular entity that could not be allowed to fail. Presently, the number one issue, and that which may ultimately define the Obama presidency, is whether sufficient controls and safeguards will be enacted to ensure that in the future, no single corporation or entity of any type should be allowed to control or influence the world's economy.

gnukid - 3-26-2010 at 05:14 PM

Since we have had so much recent experience with cops demanding mordida in the pueblos outside of la Paz we have much experience to draw upon, mordida is prompted based on fear, fear of unfair persecution, of being detained unfairly and hassled unreasonably. If people would learn that if you don't pay the corruptos they will always give up very quickly realizing their efforts and gas money are wasted.

It seems corruption around the world is based on fear in the USA as well, with a false war on drugs or false war on terror both of which are manufactured by those who profit. The difference between the US and Mexico is that in the USA does put innocent people in prison in large numbers, in order to profit from a corrupt prison industry and slave labor population both of which hurt the rest of us greatly. More people are in US prisons than in both China and Russia combined and most of them are in for non-violent crimes such as drug possession.

Daily it seems, we are told that the USA will hold people in detention without charges or evidence for ever with out trials which goes against everything we stand for as a country, this is not to protect us in fact that why we are being targeted. It is to promote fear and to destroy the fabric of our country and legal system-which has been effectively achieved by the current administration. This should make you angry, at those who are breaking the law, not mad at innocents who are being tortured and targeted, it could be you and in fact it is you.

On the other hand in Mexico, drugs have been decriminalized and the prison system is quite small in comparison, while you do hear of stories of unfair incarceration the numbers are far less in comparison to the USA, likely so because they do not have space and there is no profit.

Arrowhead like to repeat news stories, so what? These stories are memes, propaganda produced for a purpose, a profit, they do not represent truths that people experience. The truth about corruption is quite obvious to those who are not repeating fear based stories, for example the people of La Paz rallied, many of the women against corruption of the procurador justica general for failig to prosecute the murder of a young man, the procurador resigned and certainly the Gob BCS has lost immense credibility and are also on the run literally from these angry women. The videos are psoted all over the internet-you can search and see exactly how corruption is run out of town.

Unfortunately the result was that the corruptos ran to the pueblos to hassle those less angry and less organized, many of them gringos who are uninformed and living in fear.

If only people would educate themselves, ignore press stories and rely on your intuition, your personal experience, if you explain to the corruptos whoever they may be, US or Mexican and get angry and get organized corruption will also back down and run.

It's really time to learn the laws, learn your rights, speak up for yourself wherever you are and say no to corruption and say no to fear based propaganda and it's agents of provocation like arrowhead who are predictable shills having little to do with reality or real world experience.

Take a moment to do some research into the USA prison system, the number of overturned prosecutions, the number of overturned death penalty prosecutions, the number of cases of planted evidence, beatings, forced confessions and the number of cases of people killed while in custody without charges not to mention the vast history of cops who run their fiefdoms of bribes and corrruption around crime rings. This news of corruption certainly can not be news to anyone here but when will you become angry enough to run them out of town like the powerful women of La Paz?

[Edited on 3-27-2010 by gnukid]

monoloco - 3-26-2010 at 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Since the thread was regarding Mexican Corruption,What is the likelihood that reforming the Banking system would inspire the Mexican Police to go straight and reject corrupt activity ?

On a scale of Zero to Ten ? - 0.1 ? OR, not that good ?

Next time I get stopped by the policia, should I point out that the REAL problem enticing them to solicit Mordida is the fault of American and International Bankers ?

Urge the officer to forsake his wayward corrupt life and become an example of righteousness for his fellow officers ? By doing so, he'll show that he's not a pawn of an International Conspiracy ?

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by MrBillM]
Well, since the original post questioned whether the corruption in the US is more or less than Mexico, I was making the point that monetarily it's probably more in the US because it's on a higher level and more organized, whereas in Mexico it's on more of a personal level. I think that the corruption in Mexico probably has more of a net beneficial effect on their economy because at least when a cop takes a bribe he is likely to spend the money in his community, when a hedge fund manager or the CEO of Goldman makes a 100 million it likely goes into a Swiss bank.

[Edited on 3-27-2010 by monoloco]

gnukid - 3-26-2010 at 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Since the thread was regarding Mexican Corruption,What is the likelihood that reforming the Banking system would inspire the Mexican Police to go straight and reject corrupt activity ?

On a scale of Zero to Ten ? - 0.1 ? OR, not that good ?

Next time I get stopped by the policia, should I point out that the REAL problem enticing them to solicit Mordida is the fault of American and International Bankers ?

Urge the officer to forsake his wayward corrupt life and become an example of righteousness for his fellow officers ? By doing so, he'll show that he's not a pawn of an International Conspiracy ?

[Edited on 3-26-2010 by MrBillM]


I find this works quite well, if you look them in the eye and begin to lecture them on the negative effects on the community and what a bad example they are they will turn and walk. When I am with Mexicans they start in the corruptos hard before they can even get a word out. They turn and walk.

k-rico - 3-26-2010 at 05:46 PM

Gnukid,

Thanks for writing. I enjoy your posts. You mentioned the number of people in US jails, and it reminded me of a recent San Diego news story. A change in bail setting rules is going to make it easier for some to make bail and therefore reduce the number of people in jail.

Here's what the county sheriff said about that when questioned by a reporter during a discussion about throwing more people in jail for minor offenses, now that there is room:

Reporter: "So you're saying, 'Let's charge for some more crimes?" Blacher asked

Sheriff: "Oh, absolutely. I don't want to have empty beds in my jail," Gore said.

(I know this is off topic but I thought the statement was so bizarre.)

http://www.10news.com/news/22959493/detail.html


[Edited on 3-27-2010 by k-rico]

Learn something gnu everyday !

MrBillM - 3-26-2010 at 07:52 PM

"It seems corruption around the world is based on fear........"

There's a Profound Revelation. Original, too. It's quite possible nobody has ever realized that until now.

BUT, even better:

"..........if you explain to the corruptos whoever they may be, US or Mexican and get angry and get organized corruption will also back down and run."

I'll be waiting to see how that works out.

Say hello to Dorothy when you get back to OZ.

Donjulio - 3-26-2010 at 11:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by arrowhead
Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
If you think the economic collapse wasn't orchestrated you are just plain ignorant.




This was Arrowheads prom date. Guess what he's getting ready to do with that finger.

gnukid - 3-28-2010 at 11:52 AM

Bill

There is a great deal of misunderstanding it seems on the part of gringos who interact with police, they seem to almost immediately offer money on the spot to cops where as doing so is the real problem leading to more corruption. It's almost as though gringos are inducing corruption by their own poor behavior. If instead you would learn to respond in a professional and appropriate manner to a situation which unfairly targets you would see that cops will back down every single time. Of course not all cops are corrupt and not all gringos offer bribes but many do.

Here is an example to educate you-

When a cop stops and makes up a lie and tells you its a big problem in Mexico, instead of sitting there in fear, approach the circumstance professionally and with confidence, the proper response is to introduce yourself by stating your whole name politely and where you live and your profession ask his name and where does he live-this the is the appropriate introduction any place in the world-it immediately puts the cop in the position of being a person with some responsibility-then it's appropriate to make some connections mention other cops and politicians names who you know, it you don't know any you should do some advance work and meet some and learn their entire names and keep their business cards with you-by handing one the cards to a cop in a tough situation you can defuse it fast, if he refuse to tell you his name he is already admitting he is improper-there you have step 1 to reducing his power, mentioning other peoples names who you know who are police including names of commandantes (all public info) you put the cop in the position of knowing that he is not free to act unfairly, step 2 to reducing his power. Lastly, you need to keep in mind that he can not actually prosecute you and keep you in prison based entirely on a bogus traffic case which will come to light quickly, as does his reputation - step 3.

The mistake most grings make is they treat the cops as nameless people with no connection.

I have a long list of one liners that will make them turn and walk away. Here's one to try next time you get pulled over, Would you prefer to be transfered to TJ? The quicker you stand up for yourself politely, proudly and kindly with a sense of humor while knowing laws and stick to the facts-that is you did not break the law in fact and the charge is bogus- the sooner he will walk. They are looking for that fear. If you give them a hardy open mouth belly laugh for 10 seconds they will walk.

The same goes anywhere as soon as you shine light upon corruption it cowers, this is true in the USA senate, local politics all over.

The other issue we discussed was fear, it's important to see how fear is a tool to be used against you, understanding your irrational fears will empower you to stand up to corruption. Understanding how propaganda induces irrational fears will also help you calm down when you find yourself facing nonsense.

We are all suffering from vast corruption today world over, the last few weeks alone have been some of the darkest. This corruption certainly is causing people to wake up, some people, others will never wake up and see their power to stop it, for example all those gringos who pay mordida they are equal players in the corruption game. What kind of person would even think of paying mordida? Probably someone who believes in corruption!

You may wonder how I know this, well I have faced the bad guys with machine guns more than once and when you treat them as people and politely even jokingly confront them they always back down every single time. And why wouldn't they... they are only looking for a quick and easy buck-they have no desire to waste their time or their gas or bullets for nothing.

The other reason I know this is because I listen. Cops talk. They have no desire to have there day ruined by a person who knows the game.

Back to statistics, with about 3 million people in jail in the USA you are far more likely to be the victim of corruption with cops there than in Mexico. Keep that in mind when you are being targeted/profiled in either country.

And finally regarding corruption and to speak to Headlys insistent pandering here, the US under the actor Obama has increased it's debt in one year to more than was spent in the entire history of the country. The TARP bailout was stated as 800 billion, but few understand that is 800 billion rolling balance, that's like having a maximum daily withdrawl of $500 on your ATM but you can take out $500 every day. The total distributed from the Federal Reserve is more than 24 trillion according to most economic summary reports. Howard stated it was paid back by banksters but what does that mean? It was returned to whom and where? That money is monetized as part of the national debt and is now in the system, apparently in off shore accounts of people who are not identified because the Federal Reserve is a Private institution with no accountability and no auditing whatsoever. This means that in one year every single American has been fleeced for something near $70,000 of debt. Does anyone recall when Geitner was being appointed he admitted he hadn't paid his taxes (he overlooked it) and he was still accepted.

Now add on to that scam the other scams, the theft of auto industry, the mortgage industry, medical care, insurance industry etc... and now on the near horizon the coup d'etat, the cap and trade scam which will bill and tax your every move, every breath of carbon will require you pay to a private group.

So when Headly comes on board here daily with his/her anti-Mexico Nomad bashing copy and paste propaganda to induce fear we must ask who is paying Headly, what is the motivation how does he/she profit because certainly there is a motivation. More so Headly posts mimic the propaganda line fed in main stream media by the talking head actors, the shadows on the wall, but who are puppeteers? And when will people become interested and empowered in making their community healthy?

If you don't mind me belaboring this issue further, there is a downside to cleaning up crime and it's associated problems, the downside of cleaning up your neighborhood of corruptos is you end up being responsible for yourself, you don't look to cops to help you and you end up with peace and quiet, perhaps even tranquility and soon the singing and tweeting birds are your biggest problem and the other is what will you do with all the money you saved.




[Edited on 3-28-2010 by gnukid]

Gnu Education ?

MrBillM - 3-28-2010 at 12:08 PM

As a result of his "Special-Education" ?

There's NO Fear here.

Unlike ALL of these LIARS who claim to be innocents abused by a Corrupt system, whenever I've encountered a problem with the law or Customs, I've done the deed and find on-the-spot transactions equitable and efficient.

I pay (or don't pay) Mordida WILLINGLY as I assess the PERSONAL considerations of doing so. HOW it affects ME is my ONLY thought. I don't give a CRAP how it affects anyone else and I don't care whether anyone else likes it or not.

I will continue to ALWAYS do what I consider best for ME. IF it makes life tough on others, too bad. You're on your own.

As the old song goes "I don't want to set the world on fire ............."

Although I can think of a few people Id like to set on fire, but that's another story.

gnukid - 3-28-2010 at 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
...

I pay (or don't pay) Mordida WILLINGLY as I assess the PERSONAL considerations of doing so. HOW it affects ME is my ONLY thought. I don't give a CRAP how it affects anyone else and I don't care whether anyone else likes it or not.

I will continue to ALWAYS do what I consider best for ME. IF it makes life tough on others, too bad. You're on your own.
...


What you don't seem to get is that you are your own community, your actions whatever they may be affect your environment. By acting incorrectly and participating in corruption you create a negative impact for yourself. Your statements clearly defy logic, but at least your close to understanding your motivations and how your actions affect you, further that you rationalize a negative outcome as good for you makes no sense at all-I am sure you get that don't you?

It's understandable that you would think selfishly but what perhaps you should take it a further degree, you need to take better care of yourself.

And, again, I speak from personal experience, I have never paid mordida, I have no tickets on my record, I pay no extra fines. I review my bills and I find false charges and I get reimbursed.

Hooray and Hallelujah

MrBillM - 3-28-2010 at 12:26 PM

BUT, I don't care.

What I do works for me. What gnu does works for him.

The END.

gnukid - 3-28-2010 at 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
BUT, I don't care.

What I do works for me. What gnu does works for him.

The END.


You illustrate the circumstances affecting all us perfectly, you state you don't care, you state you are willing to pay for corruption believing that it works.

Yet you illustrate that it certainly doesn't work.

This notion is repeated by many. The - I don't care about ____, there's nothing i can do about it, I'll just pay and play along with corruption and keep my mouth shut.

Well, I may be wrong about this, but I tell you, if you don't pay - the corruption ends there. Corruption can only continue when it is fueled by the players-the payees. All you have do is say no and it stops.


Worse you repeat a mantra that it works for you and you don't care but both of those are false. So where are you picking up the meme that you don't care and that corruption is a way of life, that is my point,you are repeating programming, the same messages that Headly is propagandizing here, it makes your head spin, but it is all based on false notions.

I hear this from many people... I don't care about crime and corrupt police and politicians... It's a message that is programmed into many Americans, that its cool not care-sort of an arrogance that it doesn't bother me. Just once why not try my method, don't pay corruptos and watch the corruption fall apart before your eyes-and admit that you do care.

arrowhead - 3-28-2010 at 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
So when Headly comes on board here daily with his/her anti-Mexico Nomad bashing copy and paste propaganda to induce fear we must ask who is paying Headly, what is the motivation how does he/she profit because certainly there is a motivation.


Actually, Paul, you've got this all wrong. I really do not exist. I am really a computer in a basement in Des Moines, Iowa running an Artificial Intelligence program for the CIA. I am networked into the spy satellite network, and twice a day we beam radio waves into your head to record your thoughts. This is all part of a larger program by the government to destabilize you and make you think you are crazy. We have to do this because you are just getting too close to the truth.

Really?

Dave - 3-28-2010 at 02:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Back to statistics, with about 3 million people in jail in the USA you are far more likely to be the victim of corruption with cops there than in Mexico. Keep that in mind when you are being targeted/profiled in either country.


I would have thought that a higher percentage of people jailed translated into less rather than more corruption.

When was the last time you were extorted by a cop in the States?