BajaNomad - Restrictions on quad riding on beach in BCS?

Restrictions on quad riding on beach in BCS?

Curt63 - 4-26-2010 at 09:40 PM

I seem to recall some BN posts mentioning restrictions on riding quads on beaches in certain areas in BCS (interferes with Sea Turtle reproduction/eggs??)

Does anyone know of these specific areas and where it is heavily enforced.

I'll be exploring La Paz, East Cape, Los Cabos and Todos Santos in a few weeks and dont need any trouble.

Cheers

Packoderm - 4-26-2010 at 09:44 PM

If I recall correctly, some gringos made up some rules about that. They seem to want some enforcement as well.

BigWooo - 4-27-2010 at 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Packoderm
If I recall correctly, some gringos made up some rules about that. They seem to want some enforcement as well.

Mexican law actually prohibits driving in the maritime federal zone, although it only seems to be enforced in the more populated areas.

Paulclark - 4-27-2010 at 06:42 AM

It is illegal to ride on the beach -- however enforcement is very low. I don't know about the Todos Santos side , but on the East Cape (Cabo Pulmo and south) the beaches are patrolled during turtle season and in the Zacatitos area and south to Cabo San Lucas they do enforce no quads on the beach.

Bob and Susan - 4-27-2010 at 07:15 AM

a couple of years ago i talked to the delagato of profepa and

he said it was illegal to drive on the beaches but

there wasn't enough people to enforce it everywhere

education will correct the problem later

dtutko1 - 4-27-2010 at 07:19 AM

In the Pescadero and Todo Santos area there are signs at all/most entrances to the beach prohibiting riding on the beach, but most gringos feel it is there right to destroy turtle nests and ride regularly.

David K - 4-27-2010 at 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtutko1
...but most gringos feel it is there right to destroy turtle nests and ride regularly.

That's the silliest thing I have read yet!

So, Mexican nationals don't ride on the beach? How about horses, or just people walking??? A foot will go deeper into the sand than a quad tire.

Everyone should stay away from turtle nests, but a quad is probably the least harmful way to travel the beach.

MX nationals AND gringoes break a law by riding quads on beaches

Lee - 4-27-2010 at 07:57 AM

For whatever reason MX made this law, PROFEPA is aware of it, and given the chance, WILL enforce it.

The Todos people are more militant about turtle nests being disturbed. (PROFEPA is known to appear on Todos beaches enforcing fish limit and, I assume, vehicle laws.)

My experience is that MX nationals care less about tearing up beaches or running over turtles than gringoes. Many gringoes are simply ignorant of the law.

I rarely see quads going at a slow speed; I do see most full throttle and reckless.

mtgoat666 - 4-27-2010 at 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by dtutko1
...but most gringos feel it is there right to destroy turtle nests and ride regularly.

dk:
as usual you are so full of it your eyes have turned brown:

It is widely recognized that beach driving can cause serious ecological impacts by potentially destroying nesting areas for sea turtles and birds such as the piping plover and damaging or destroying vegetation and dunes. Shore erosion can be accelerated by careless beach driving and vehicles on the beach can be a safety hazard to beach goers.

Beach driving:
Vehicles can crush developing eggs and pre-emergent hatchlings, and the tire ruts can trap hatchlings in the sand, exhausting them and making them even more vulnerable to predators. Hatchlings can escape from a 3-cm-deep footprint, but not from a tire rut of the same depth. At night vehicles disturb nesting females and crush hatchlings on their way to the water.

Human presence on the beach:
Foot traffic can also damage eggs and hatchlings, and uncontrolled visitations at night can cause turtles to abort nesting attempts.

David K - 4-27-2010 at 08:21 AM

Goat, you are agreeing with me about the human foot impact... However, you blindly use the word 'vehicles' without consideration as to the many different vehicles there are. Not all vehicles (or operators) cause damage... A quad, with wide, high floatation tires, driven normally, will barely depress into the sand.

You also totally missed where I said everyone should just stay away from the nests.

CortezBlue - 4-27-2010 at 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Goat, you are agreeing with me about the human foot impact... However, you blindly use the word 'vehicles' without consideration as to the many different vehicles there are. Not all vehicles (or operators) cause damage... A quad, with wide, high floatation tires, driven normally, will barely depress into the sand.

You also totally missed where I said everyone should just stay away from the nests.

How about Toyota Pick Ups with poorly engineered computer chips or gas pedals?

tiotomasbcs - 4-27-2010 at 09:18 AM

If people would only drive their quads below the low tide line it wouldn't be too bad. But they don't! Gringos & Mexicans alike race all over the dunes, vegetation & other areas areas destroying the natural beauty. A few people always screw it up for the majority!!In Pescadero we have full size pick-ups that drive up on the beach, pic nic, and then drive away leaving all their trash! Difficult & dangerous to confront people so we pick it up. Except diapers! I draw the line with diapers!! Car ads on TV & magazines always show pick-ups on the beach. Bad example.

TonyC - 4-27-2010 at 10:51 AM

Thought, sea turtle, or not, us, or nationals....no driving on any beach. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 4-27-2010 by TonyC]

[Edited on 4-27-2010 by TonyC]

gnukid - 4-27-2010 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tiotomasbcs
If people would only drive their quads below the low tide line it wouldn't be too bad. But they don't! Gringos & Mexicans alike race all over the dunes, vegetation & other areas areas destroying the natural beauty. A few people always screw it up for the majority!!In Pescadero we have full size pick-ups that drive up on the beach, pic nic, and then drive away leaving all their trash! Difficult & dangerous to confront people so we pick it up. Except diapers! I draw the line with diapers!! Car ads on TV & magazines always show pick-ups on the beach. Bad example.

Below the median low tide line is a critical area for sea life to flourish, eggs are laid here, crabs live here, birds feed here.

Actually if you look at most beach areas in BCS, though not all, when they do draw the lines for properties, they take into account the federal zone which is 20 meters from the median high tide line and above that is often a designated 7 meter zone for transit of vehicles and boats and concessions and so forth. If there is no 7 meter zone there begins either a concession zones or property zones-it varies based on the land. In between the properties will be periodic arroyo accesses. This is not always the case but it started out often in this manner as far as every beach front titling document I have seen on the sea of cortez in BCS and often on the pacific. It depends.

It is legal and safe to use the beach accesses and the 7 meter zone when available and designated for vehicle traffic but one should not drive in the tidal zone or the federal zone not use the beach for off road sport.

There are some beaches where it is common to use the entire beach for driving such as many hard pack areas and others where it is not common, you should respect the common use. Generally one should consider whether you need to use the beach to transit or not for your purpose and avoid it if possible. And you should consider the type of vehicle you have and what affect it would have. There are huge 750 4x4 quads and 2 wheel 250s which are quite different.

Nowadays if you need to burn some gas in your wheeler or quad it advised to use arroyo trails which are often designated for such activity. This is really where the problem lies, there are may gringos who love to burn up and down the beach starting at 5am in a manner which is illegal and against common courtesy with no purpose other than to make noise and destroy the beach-they receive the wrath of the community.

It is best however that you don't get into a conflict with someone over this practice since it will result in a confrontation and you may be in the wrong in specific cases that we have recently seen where aggressive gringos were put in jail for trying to stop some peoplefrom using quads in the 7 meter 'malecon' zone and on beach accesses as opposed to specifically in the tidal zone.

Because of recent conservation efforts there is an increase in sealife on reefs and we see more turtles this year which is demonstrable due to reduced abusive practices.

redmesa - 4-27-2010 at 11:20 AM

People walking or fishing on the beach do not generally travel 5 to 10 miles and then repeat that route over and over. I do not run around and make figure 8's in the sand. No one has even mention the noise pollution created by any motor vehicle on the beach or the danger to the people on the beach. There is absolutely no rational reason to have a motor vehicle on any beach. It is all a negative for a few motorholics to have a buzz. To argue that walking on the beach has even the remotest relationship to motorized vehicles is totally specious.
There I said it. I too have love my dirt bikes, jeeps and other off road fun stuff but not on the beaches of the world.

Cypress - 4-27-2010 at 12:14 PM

Far too many people are either unable to walk any distance or choose not too. The later will lead to the former, and the results are the same.

classicbajabronco - 5-25-2010 at 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

I have never ever in 7 years seen a turtle lay their eggs below the tide line...I have no idea where you could even come up with this from. You try digging a 2-3' hole in the wet hard sand in the tide zone and see how long it takes you with the waves continuously filling in the hole....Turtles lay their eggs way way up the beach in the soft deep sand far away from the waves....If turtles laid their eggs in this zone....there would be no such thing as sea turtles because they would be extinct as all the eggs would all get washed out to sea.....ever notice how much the beach is continuously changing in the tidal zone.....with a change in swell direction it's not uncommon to lose 10' of beach... :?:

And how in the hell would a quad driving on the beach have any effect on the sealife on a submerged reef :?:

Osprey - 5-25-2010 at 03:31 PM

Sea turtles take their time choosing nesting spots. They crawl above the wet beach, keep going away from the water until they find sand with little salt. Not failsafe but that's their way of finding a safe, dry nesting spot. Storms change all that at times. One storm in Mazatlan ruined 1.5M eggs laid far up on the beach.

Pacifico - 5-25-2010 at 03:44 PM

Here's something I found:
http://www.seaworld.org/infobooks/seaturtle/strepro.html

"Females of most species usually come ashore at night, alone, most often during high tide. A female sea turtle crawls above the high tide line and, using her front flippers, digs out a "body pit." Then using her hind flippers, she digs an egg cavity. The depth of the cavity is determined by the length of the stretched hind flipper."

gnukid - 5-25-2010 at 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pacifico
Here's something I found:
http://www.seaworld.org/infobooks/seaturtle/strepro.html

"Females of most species usually come ashore at night, alone, most often during high tide. A female sea turtle crawls above the high tide line and, using her front flippers, digs out a "body pit." Then using her hind flippers, she digs an egg cavity. The depth of the cavity is determined by the length of the stretched hind flipper."

Awesome, had a chance to study with a leading phd candidate on this subject at the camp south of Todos Santos, she related there is little known about Turtles habits for certain. Her thesis was that the females try to return to the exact location of their birth and lay eggs there, perhaps, she thought, they prefered high tide combined with swell action that allowed them to arrive when ready to lay eggs and make it up enough to lay eggs protected from the following swells.

So, weather, wind, tide, timing, location all related to allowing the female to lay eggs. Some turtles have been known to travel across the world every other year as well. ... like Baja nomads...

Cypress - 5-25-2010 at 04:20 PM

Amazing, After traveling halfway around the world to lay their eggs, the least we can do is see that someone doesn't run over 'em with some sort of vehicle or dig 'em up and eat 'em.

classicbajabronco - 5-25-2010 at 04:26 PM

How can you be a candidate for a PHD? It sounds like her having a Thesis, she is a student in grad school.

Is this "Candidate" the one who told you turtles lay their eggs below the high tide? :?:

[Edited on 5-25-2010 by classicbajabronco]

tiotomasbcs - 5-25-2010 at 04:31 PM

that said, Gnukid, what is your new hypothesis today? Not arguing apples & oranges, but you seen to have spoken prematurely. None of us , I'm sure like the idea of motorized vehicles on the beach. I own a quad but ride only on roads & in the arroyos! Used to ride on the beach tho.

Tio ps laid a few eggs, too!

DianaT - 5-25-2010 at 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tiotomasbcs
........ None of us , I'm sure like the idea of motorized vehicles on the beach. I own a quad but ride only on roads & in the arroyos!

There are several here who ride quads, drive trucks, etc. on the beaches. ----

Maybe someday the law will be enforced in more areas.

Bajahowodd - 5-25-2010 at 04:41 PM

Back and forth. And back again. Fact is that anytime anyone chooses to drive off road vehicles there will be a degradation of the environment. I'm not looking to pick a fight with quad drivers, or anyone else who drive off-road vehicles, but it just seems to me that anyone who gets their jollies doing such, has a responsibility to do the least harm possible. Otherwise, you're just a ******.

classicbajabronco - 5-25-2010 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Back and forth. And back again. Fact is that anytime anyone chooses to drive off road vehicles there will be a degradation of the environment. I'm not looking to pick a fight with quad drivers, or anyone else who drive off-road vehicles, but it just seems to me that anyone who gets their jollies doing such, has a responsibility to do the least harm possible. Otherwise, you're just a ******.

That being said....anyone who chooses to drive a car in general negatively effects the environment...Does that make them&^%$#$*'s as well?

and this does happen to be an offroad forum, so you may start a few fights...

ecomujeres - 5-25-2010 at 05:13 PM

In reading Gnukid's post about eggs being laid around the tide line, he didn't specifically say turtle eggs. Many species of marine animals do lay their eggs around the tide lines (fish and invertebrates).

Turtles do lay above the high tide mark, and when the female chooses poorly, or an unexpected storm causes surges above the high tide mark, nests are usually lost because the wet sand impedes oxygen exchange between the air in the sand and the egg. Running over nests in vehicles also compacts soil, decreasing the O2 available, as above, and makes it more difficult for the hatchlings to dig their way to the surface.

Mexican Law: No vehicles within the federal zone of any beach.

Should it matter if it's enforced or not, if it's the law?

Just because others break the law, does that mean that we should break it as well?

I am always amazed when people know that some activity is illegal in Mexico and yet still ask how they might best get away with breaking that law. Incredible.
:?:

gnukid - 5-25-2010 at 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by classicbajabronco

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

And how in the hell would a quad driving on the beach have any effect on the sealife on a submerged reef :?:

Bronco, Seems to be a misunderstanding, I don't see anywhere where anyone said turtles lay their eggs below the tide line, however, ridges in the sand at lower levels from quads could impair the progress of newborns to return to the water.

The low tide area is an area where sea life does inhabit, crabs, crustacions, varieties types of sea life use the area to feed and breed, spawn. Quads or vehicles should not assume that low tide is a great time to burn up and down the beach.

Perhaps its worthwhile to read the posts again, consider the concerns, and consider driving above the federal zone as mentioned here.

classicbajabronco - 5-25-2010 at 08:43 PM

sorry I missed all the fun....just got back from a ride down the beach on the quad...in the lowtide zone...as guess what...my tracks are no longer to be seen...as the next wave washed them away.

as far as the crabs..when I first came here the locals were running down the crabs with quads...then supergluing them to hooks for bait.....and you know what....it works great!!!

When in rome..........

Gnukid wrote:
Quads or vehicles should not assume that low tide is a great time to burn up and down the beach.

You are giving quads and vehicles way too much credit in this statement...do you really think a quad or a vehicle has a brain and can actually assume anything :?:

or were you just personifying them for for the fun of it? :lol:

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]

David K - 5-25-2010 at 08:56 PM

Ah, the high and mighty liberals... love to dictate their ideas of right and wrong but always have an 'out' for themselves, when caught doing those things.

'Party members' of socialist governments eat well, have nice things and travel to other countries for medical treatment (because their government health care is crap)... all the things they deny the masses. They also go to lavish parties, vacation and play golf while national disasters go untreated. The press remains silent... unlike when a Republican was president!

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

gnukid - 5-25-2010 at 08:58 PM

Cute lil' Bronco buddy, I was down at Balandra Bay and this Bronco guy really wanted to show off along the shallows with his girlfriend and then he drove up over the dune, his cute lil yellow Bronco high-sided and got stuck with all four tires spinning. Didn't work. We pulled him out with a real bronco loco, not the little kid kind. Was that you?

classicbajabronco - 5-25-2010 at 09:03 PM

nope....I would never drive my rig in the shallows...that is just plain low. And yellow's for sissy's.....

classicbajabronco - 5-25-2010 at 09:07 PM

and besides I don't think I could hi-center mine if I tried. unless I tried driving over a pyramid

is there a reason you are on the offroad forum gnukid...you seem pretty anti-offroad vehicle to me :?:

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]

dtbushpilot - 5-25-2010 at 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by classicbajabronco
sorry I missed all the fun....just got back from a ride down the beach on the quad...in the lowtide zone...as guess what...my tracks are no longer to be seen...as the next wave washed them away.

as far as the crabs..when I first came here the locals were running down the crabs with quads...then supergluing them to hooks for bait.....and you know what....it works great!!!

When in rome..........

Quads or vehicles should not assume that low tide is a great time to burn up and down the beach.

You are giving quads and vehicles way too much credit in this statement...do you really think a quad or a vehicle has a brain and can actually assume anything :?:

or were you just personifying them for for the fun of it? :lol:

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]

Have fun bronco, just be respectfull of others. Ride slowly
near others, avoid riding between people sitting on the beach and the water (go around them giving a wide berth). Smile and wave. Don't worry about the turtles, you won't have any negative effect on them.

If you do see any baby turtles scurrying toward the water just remember.....they make great bait :lol:

....dt

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by dtbushpilot]

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by dtbushpilot]

classicbajabronco - 5-25-2010 at 09:18 PM

dtbushpilot wrote:

Have fun bronco, just be respectfull of others. Ride slowly near others, avoid riding between people sitting on the beach and the water (go around them giving a wide berth). Smile and wave. Don't worry about the turtles, you won't have any negative effect on them.

If you do see any baby turtles scurrying toward the water just remember.....they make great bait....dt

great Idea...... on the turtles for bait....I bet a guy could clean up on the pargo...Think I should try superglue or should i hook them thru the eye sockets like a ballyho

And I am always respectful to all I see on the beach, I clean up litter when I see it, even diapers don't scare me!!

I even pull out the idiots who drive down on the beach in rental cars :no:

DianaT - 5-25-2010 at 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Ah, the high and mighty liberals... love to dictate their ideas of right and wrong but always have an 'out' for themselves, when caught doing those things.

'Party members' of socialist governments eat well, have nice things and travel to other countries for medical treatment (because their government health care is crap)... all the things they deny the masses. They also go to lavish parties, vacation and play golf while national disasters go untreated. The press remains silent... unlike when a Republican was president!

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

What are you talking about? This is just crazy nonsense---this thread is not about political philosophy, it is about Mexican Law.

Also about the fact that it is enforced in some areas and not in others.

Also about if one thinks they should follow the law even if it is not enforced.

Also about if others do it, should one follow the example.

Also about if someone agrees if the law is correct or not, which is really a mute question since it is Mexico and it is THEIR law, like it or not.

But you just can't resist throwing in one of your political tirades, can you.

This is about MEXICO and MEXICAN law --- and if people follow it or not, and how and why. It is not about political philosophy.

Take your nonsense to off-topic, please

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by DianaT]

classicbajabronco - 5-25-2010 at 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Cute lil' Bronco buddy, I was down at Balandra Bay and this Bronco guy really wanted to show off along the shallows with his girlfriend and then he drove up over the dune, his cute lil yellow Bronco high-sided and got stuck with all four tires spinning. Didn't work. We pulled him out with a real bronco loco, not the little kid kind. Was that you?

shame on you gnukid for driving a real bronco loco on the beach...just think of all the turtles you maimed and crushed...and the crabs, the crustacions, and all those eggs you are worried about a little quad smashing.

A quad weighs 600lbs....your real bronco loco weighs about 4000lbs....what in the hell were you thinking....or were you showing off to your boyfriend?

I did go back and reread the posts and found it funny that you didn't defend the "turtle" eggs part until ecomujere chimed in...as such I really think you meant turtle eggs...

And now that you've found out that turtles lay their eggs above the high tide, you want us to drive in the federal zone which just so happens to be the high tide zone where the turtles lay their eggs......are you trying to make us kill the turtles?

:lol:

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]

wessongroup - 5-25-2010 at 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ecomujeres
In reading Gnukid's post about eggs being laid around the tide line, he didn't specifically say turtle eggs. Many species of marine animals do lay their eggs around the tide lines (fish and invertebrates).

Turtles do lay above the high tide mark, and when the female chooses poorly, or an unexpected storm causes surges above the high tide mark, nests are usually lost because the wet sand impedes oxygen exchange between the air in the sand and the egg. Running over nests in vehicles also compacts soil, decreasing the O2 available, as above, and makes it more difficult for the hatchlings to dig their way to the surface.

Mexican Law: No vehicles within the federal zone of any beach.

Should it matter if it's enforced or not, if it's the law?

Just because others break the law, does that mean that we should break it as well?

I am always amazed when people know that some activity is illegal in Mexico and yet still ask how they might best get away with breaking that law. Incredible.
:?:

Thank you for a well thought out statement on the fundamental point.. at least I thought so... perhaps we could call them undocumented riders?

Bajafun777 - 5-25-2010 at 10:44 PM

I read this topic with a lot of laughing, as I have been on the beaches in Baja, Mainland Gulf and Pacific as well as the Atlantic side of Mainland Mexico and have seen beach patrols, military, local government vehicles, and too many private vehicles to even try separating them as to their orgins. All, repeat all were on the beaches driving so fast, some slow, some just checking out the lovely women on the beach (Really all of them we doing this and still doing parts of their job,LOL).

I have not seen were the flowers did not grow back (just like trees do in forest fires), or where the beaches were impacted in any fashion. I drive on the beach occassionally and right pass the army,beach patrol, and local government agencies on theat same beach to which I have never been told anything is wrong or illegal. Would like to see the law. If I see it and read it then I will follow it, unless I am totally away from any Nomads who would let everyone on this site know I broke the law they showed me.

Live by the biggest desert which all types of vehicle race up and down the dunes. Have people that have been doing this for over 40 years that I know of and the same flowers and dunes height gets higher and higher each, so they are not disappearing. Have also gone to the dunes with kids teaching them to ride and have safe fun. So, it has nothing todo with liking or not liking something if you have never really sampled it you are giving an opinion. Later0================== Bajafun8777

Cypress - 5-26-2010 at 05:35 AM

Diana T. You're right about the scofflaws.
David K. You're right about the liberal mindset.

longlegsinlapaz - 5-26-2010 at 07:24 AM

Very well said ecomujeres!!

DK, your attempting to put a political spin on everything is sooooo tiresome. And your oft repeated feeble efforts to "justify" your breaking the law in a country you profess to love is beyond ludicrous! Screw liberal, right, left, conservative, socialism & any other political leaning! What part of respecting Mexican law & encouraging others to do the same for the good of the multitude of species that inhabit & reproduce on the beach do you not understand?

You personally have posted pics of bird eggs & hatchlings....pics taken on the beaches you drive on! How many more do you think you drove over & murdered to get to the point you finally saw one to take a pic of? :no:

I can't speak for all the beaches in Baja, but I know the majority of La Paz area beaches are posted with anti-motorized vehicle warnings.

"IT'S THE LAW" of a country you occasionally visit really should suffice!

Russ - 5-26-2010 at 07:40 AM

I understand that driving any thing on the beach could damage eggs or spawn from a whole variety of critters so I ride as responsible as possible in sensitive areas. However, I think some of the energy spent here bashing quad riders could be better directed toward protecting the critters themselves. Nets and commercial interest take breading wildlife and juveniles of a lot of shoreline breading animals. I've seen many nets with dead fish too small for market or with dead and dying turtles. There are many places I would never have enjoyed if I hadn't used the quad.

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by Russ]

Bajafun777 - 5-26-2010 at 08:00 AM

Some of the beaches and dunes are so remote how would you ever get to them unless by boat or trying to walk in, which would be too far for most people to do. Again, it maybe the law but where is that law written and who is interpeting it to be that you can not drive down to the beaches?? I again state that I have been passed as I was walking on beaches or on a beach cruiser bike by Army vehicles, beach patrol, mexican government agencies that I do not even know who they are do the all of the writing on the doors, etc.

Again, laws are written and interpeted in many ways, that is why we have so many stinking attorneys and judges to blood suck off of us to tell us there opinion on it. Hell, even the Constitution decisions are overtuned by later decisions on something was was recognized as legal before here in the States and Mexico is no different. It is legal today, Should be legal tomorrow, Maybe Legal for the moment if you have the magic and on and on it goes. I guess some will deal with this issue as they can when it comes up but maybe it would be helpful to see the posted law!!

I really do not race up and down beaches but I do like to get access to where they are and on foot from roadways miles away not an option. More damage done to beaches and wildlife by mother nature than anything else, anyone not seen the storm pictures from Mexico. It is like riding a motorcycle you see more taking the easy ride down the coast than you do in a car or truck. Those seeking restrictions on areas simply because of a few that do harm is also unacceptable. Anyone that would seek to harm or destroy a turtle, eggs, etc. are those that do other destructive things daily but the others doing no harm should not be punished or restricted.

Mexico has a right to implement any laws they want and the long beach areas of no population or signs of any life are there to be enjoyed as you can. Same goes for the areas in California,which are few and far between that you can access only by jeep or some type of quad. Restrictions for exceptions to the rule are why I keep looking down further to Costa Rica and other Central American Countries to have some ability to just enjoy life without the B.S. Everybody wants the United States people to over look our own laws for massive attacks on them with interpetations different from the written word but now the same people of thought wants everyone to adhere to something they have not even seen. If it is that important and enforced that restrictive then Mexico should post it so travelers and visitors see it, maybe Texas,Alabama,Mississippi, L.A.,Florida beaches have a better pull if Mexico goes into full force and effect on no riding on beaches. Have had my fill of the "Sky Is Falling Crap." "No Hurry, No Worry, Just Fun" Later-------------- bajafun777

dtbushpilot - 5-26-2010 at 09:16 AM

What 777 said...

durrelllrobert - 5-26-2010 at 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by dtutko1
...but most gringos feel it is there right to destroy turtle nests and ride regularly.

YES, everyone :fire:

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by durrelllrobert]

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by durrelllrobert]
trying again
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh37/durrellrobert/sea%20...

[Edited on 5-27-2010 by durrelllrobert]

Cypress - 5-26-2010 at 09:41 AM

Bajafun777, The beaches of Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Florida, as I type this, are being threatened by an oil leak of unimaginable proportions. :no:

classicbajabronco - 5-26-2010 at 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Bajafun777, The beaches of Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Florida, as I type this, are being threatened by an oil leak of unimaginable proportions. :no:

And what exactly does this have to do with riding quads on the beach in BCS :?:

I agree with 777 100% well put amigo

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]

DianaT - 5-26-2010 at 04:19 PM

Some interesting reads----but in the end, it is a matter of the law and the enforcement of the law.

I doubt the law will be enforced everywhere any time soon and locals and tourists will continue to drive on the Federal Zone. It will be interesting to see what happens if the law begins to be enforced in more areas.

The entire federal zone thing will be very interesting some day in Bahia Asuncion as there are roads, homes, and businesses that are on the federal zone----one of the roads is the one used by the 24/7 patrol looking for poachers. And people are still building on the federal zone today.

I would like to see more beaches and dunes protected, but when we are in Bahia Asuncion, we are guilty of driving on the Federal Zone everyday---on the roads around town.

It matters little if anyone here agrees or not with the law. Mexico will make the decisions.

[Edited on 5-27-2010 by DianaT]

Osprey - 5-26-2010 at 04:30 PM

Maybe someone with good statistics can chime in here -- I have heard that the things that decimate the turtle population the most are coyotes, ravens and shore birds. It makes perfect sense because turtles have learned to lay their eggs where the beach is still remote (dark, not many lights from large nearby population centers). So after the eggs are laid and when they hatch people of every stripe on quads can scare off their natural predators -- that is, if the the motos can get to the beach, legal use and access or not. You quad guys could form squadrons, plan and coordinate attacks on the turtle's shoreline enemies.

Cypress - 5-26-2010 at 05:09 PM

classicbajabronco, 777 brought the gulf states into the discussion and I responded. Ask him.

DianaT - 5-27-2010 at 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajafun777
If it is that important and enforced that restrictive then Mexico should post it so travelers and visitors see it, Later-------------- bajafun777

They put up signs in Bahia Asuncion, but no one enforces it so no one pays any attention to the signs, except during the fiesta when it was enforced. But I imagine that the signs are the beginning and enforcement will follow sometime.

But, as I stated before, in our area there are roads on the Federal Zone and people are still building new structures on the Federal Zone--will be interesting someday.

[Edited on 5-27-2010 by DianaT]

ecomujeres - 5-27-2010 at 04:47 PM

Osprey: I don't know how to direct you to the exact responses, but if you go to this thread

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=44078#pid4926...

you will see several responses about ATV's/dangers to turtles, two by me, and one by another person who has worked hands-on with turtle conservation. I had recently attended a three day conference on sea turtle conservation at the time I wrote my replies.

ATV's and other vehicles add to all of the other threats encountered by turtles, beach nesting birds and crustaceans/fish fry of all kinds.

classicbajabronco - 5-27-2010 at 07:16 PM

Fish Fry? Tell me when and where and I'll bring the tartar sauce!!!

I love Fish Fries....

Someone else please provide the cerveca :bounce:

dtbushpilot - 5-27-2010 at 07:29 PM

I've got the beer covered.....I'll load it on the quad and meet you at the beach :lol:

classicbajabronco - 5-27-2010 at 07:42 PM

great.... I'll load mine full of tartar sauce, and will run over as many crabs on the way out I see on the beach to use for bait in case we run out of fish for the fish fry.

Maybe someone else can load a Stereo on their quad, and someone else can bring a school bus full of mujeres...Because Mujeres love fish frys too....

It was ecomujeres idea in the first place to have a fish fry?

:lol:

[Edited on 5-28-2010 by classicbajabronco]

DianaT - 5-27-2010 at 07:49 PM

Ah yes, and maybe someone can bring along a turtle for the soup---does happen in our area at times.

Then again, a couple of fishermen lost their jobs for a year because they had a turtle aboard--- So enforcement in harvesting turtles is happening.

So hopefully, maybe some day they will enforce the law against riding on the beach and destroying habitat for some critters.

But it will probably happen later that sooner, so enjoy the ride. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 5-28-2010 by DianaT]

classicbajabronco - 5-27-2010 at 08:02 PM

Are they going to enforce the law by riding on the beach to see if anyone is breaking the law by riding on the beach..

The turtle people here ride on the beach in groups of 3 , all on their own quad to see if there are any turtle nests. They don't seem to have a problem with driving on the beach judging by their actions. They have seen me numerous times riding on the beach....but then again they are my family. :lol:

DianaT - 5-27-2010 at 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by classicbajabronco
Are they going to enforce the law by riding on the beach to see if anyone is breaking the law by riding on the beach..

The turtle people here ride on the beach in groups of 3 , all on their own quad to see if there are any turtle nests. They don't seem to have a problem with driving on the beach judging by their actions. They have seen me numerous times riding on the beach....but then again they are my family. :lol:

As already stated, it is not a law that is enforced everywhere----yet and may never be.

Curt63 - 5-27-2010 at 10:27 PM

Thats classic Bronco. Let me get this straight. The guys that inspect turtle habitat in your area ride quads on the beach in groups of three.

You weren't joking or stretching the truth were you?

Either way, lots of perspectives shared. Thanks for all the input.

Cheers

monoloco - 5-28-2010 at 07:58 AM

I am guilty of having driven all sorts of vehicles on the beaches of Baja and always thought that the destroying turtle thing was over-hyped until last December, walking on the beach encountered over a hundred baby turtles that were unable to make it to the water because of vehicle tracks. We spent about an hour helping the babies on their way, and now I have a bit of a different attitude about driving on the beach.

tiotomasbcs - 5-28-2010 at 02:42 PM

Sadly, here in Todos Santos/Pescadero the TrtleHeads also ride quads on the beach to search for turtle nests; at nite, no less. Figure that out?! Tio

Cypress - 5-28-2010 at 02:58 PM

No Problemo,

Out of sight and out of mind.

But if you happen to see a few of those little fresh hatched-out turtles try to avoid running 'em over as you speed 'on down the beach in your 4x4 vehicle.

wessongroup - 5-28-2010 at 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue

Quote:

How about Toyota Pick Ups with poorly engineered computer chips or gas pedals?

ecomujeres - 5-28-2010 at 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tiotomasbcs
Sadly, here in Todos Santos/Pescadero the TrtleHeads also ride quads on the beach to search for turtle nests; at nite, no less. Figure that out?! Tio

Not hard to figure out. They are patrolling the beaches, looking for females coming up to lay their eggs. Females usually lay their eggs IN THE DARK.

They are likely removing the eggs from the nests and relocating them to protected hatcheries where they can't be driven over by vehicles illegally riding on the beach. These groups have permits and they are well aware of where it is safest to ride to minimize damage.

And I'd ride in a group too if I had to confront armed and/or belligerant turtle poachers.

classicbajabronco - 5-28-2010 at 03:51 PM

Most turtle poachers are hungry locals....but not all. Some people just can't stop lusting for the flavor of Turtle...I have heard from many, many, many people that turtle meat is tops when it comes to meat.

I still think coyotes, are the main killer of turtles...when you see a nest pee on it. Coyotes are afraid of himan scent, and by peeing on the nest you are telling them that's your territory.

Remember, no matter how hard it is for you econuts to watch a baby turtle struggling. If you help them you are almost gauranteeing that they will not survive. The turtles need to crawl the distance so they can get the hang of walking, which for a turtle is the same as swimming..If you help them get to the water, they will drown.

Cypress - 5-28-2010 at 05:44 PM

classicbajabronco, Good information. Thanks.

classicbajabronco - 5-28-2010 at 06:05 PM

oh yeah...

also don't pile sticks or flag the nest in any way to make sure no one drives over the nest.....

What you are doing is putting up a billboard to the people who want to make a turtle egg omlete saying HERE THEY ARE, COME AND GET EM!!! it makes their poaching enterprise much easier..

If you want to save the turtle get a quad, pee in a gallon jug, get a pile of 4"x4" steel mesh and cover the nest with the mess( buried of course) pour the pee on the nest, and drive down the beach and when you see a nest protect it with the mesh, coyotes cant dig through the mesh and the turtles can still climb through.

What you don't need to do is tell people..especially nationals that they can't drive on the beach...as this is a really good way to get your butt kicked.

you will never stop quads, trucks or anything else from driving on the beach, me included. You are gringos( me included) and have no rights here to speak of.

Cypress - 5-28-2010 at 06:26 PM

classicbajabronco, Thanks for the advice/info.

if you can't beat 'em

BFS - 5-28-2010 at 07:50 PM

I used to spend a few months in the year camping on the remote Oaxaca coast and would always see the early morning flashlights of turtle egg poachers while I stretched in the sand before a pre dawn surf. They would come to my tent and try selling me eggs. Sometimes by late afternoon the eggs were still unpurchased and they would take a few home and throw the rest out. Seems even the locals have their limits on disgusting slimy turtle egg shots. It was very sad and disturbing so finally out of desperation I started haggling with the guys to the point where I got the price down to 1 peso each if I bought their entire booty delivered by 9:00am. My excuse was that I surfed myself silly between 6 and 9 am so i would come in starving and nothing like a little snot-like macho turtle egg breakkie to fuel me up. They would even throw in some limes every now and then. Once my friends disappeared with their cash I would dig hidden nests and re-bury the eggs trying to match the depth and distance from the waterline of the original ones that I scouted out. I then covered the tracks. I did this for months every year and spent a few pesos in the process.
Im not sure If i saved any turtles or if i was contributing to the problem, but it seemed like a fair way to ease my conscience while simultaneously making a few deposits in the karma bank.
I remember vividly one early afternoon I was strolling down the beach to the fresh water lagoon for a cool swim and I came across a single little black turtle heading to the sea. He was pumping his cute little flippers and heading west. It was one of those moments that just brings a Big Fat Smile to your face.
It was touching and uplifting (although kind of odd that there was only one and he was going for it in the absolute middle of the day) and I will never forget him/her swimming off between my feet off into the Pacific.

Cypress - 5-28-2010 at 08:14 PM

BFS, Good story! Thanks.

monoloco - 5-30-2010 at 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by classicbajabronco

Remember, no matter how hard it is for you econuts to watch a baby turtle struggling. If you help them you are almost gauranteeing that they will not survive. The turtles need to crawl the distance so they can get the hang of walking, which for a turtle is the same as swimming..If you help them get to the water, they will drown.

If that is true then the turtle experts are killing the turtles they are trying to save because they help the turtles to the water after they hatch in the relocated nests. I observed that there was no way that the baby turtles could climb the tire tracks.

classicbajabronco - 5-30-2010 at 07:28 AM

Quote:

Now here's a question?

So a baby turtle can break itself out of the egg and dig itself up 2 feet through sand, under which it's mother buried it, get past all the drift wood you people bury on top of them, but It can't cross a tire rut. Is this your theory?

Or the theory of the turtle EXPERTS with a 6th grade education and no formal training to speak of. The fancy shirts don't make them an expert. Next time around ask them how they became a turtle expert. I am just going off of what I have personally seen, maybe there is an actual Turtle Expert here who can chime in(with credentials of course)

Is it just me or does this make no effing sense?
:?:

classicbajabronco - 5-30-2010 at 07:49 AM

Check this out....
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-BABY-TURTLE-TW0-INCH-PIKE-BASS-KILLE...

NEW BABY TURTLE TW0 INCH PIKE & BASS KILLER LURE

monoloco - 5-31-2010 at 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by classicbajabronco

It's not a theory, I was skeptical too until I saw it with my own eyes.

Answer to the original question

tehag - 6-2-2010 at 11:14 AM

Two-meter-wide posting of beach regs:

Photo of rigorous enforcement:

Marinero - 6-3-2010 at 06:01 PM

It is often a matter of location. Before you venture on unknown beaches, you might ask locals, gringos and mexicans, what the real enforcements are. Basically, beaches are off limits for motor vehicles below the high tide line. However, Nationals drive wherever they want, and Gringos can be trashed for acting like Nationals.'
Be careful out there....................