BajaNomad - What is the purpose of an FM3

What is the purpose of an FM3

bonanza bucko - 5-26-2010 at 08:40 AM

I'm still confused. What is the purpose of an FM3?
Do you have to rent property to get one?
How often must you leave Mexico to have one?
Must you turn it in...or get it stamped...when you leave?
Why is it better than an FMM?
What good is it?

BB :?:

durrelllrobert - 5-26-2010 at 08:58 AM

Mainly it allows you to LIVE in Mexico LEGALLY and to appear in court when necessary. THE FMM is for turists and it would be difficult to convince anyone that you are only a turist if you are living (rental or otherwise) in Mexico. In the US everyone complains about illegals so why would you want to be an illegal in Mexico :?:

DianaT - 5-26-2010 at 09:01 AM

With a current FM3 you do not have to leave Mexico at all---

Technically, it is supposed to be stamped when you leave and return---easy by airplane, seldom done by land

Bob and Susan - 5-26-2010 at 09:51 AM

the main reason is to protect your stuff when
you leave mexico and return to your "other house"

if you leave and ONLY have an FMM
you've abandoned your stuff and it can be taken

you'd sure be peeed if you returned and it was all gone...legally

sancho - 5-26-2010 at 04:22 PM

I've never had the need for an fm3,
but with the POSSLBILITY of the New FMM Regs
which may allow a TOURIST only 1- 180 fmm per
yr. That may, if enforced, require me to
get an fm3 in the future.
I've read of RV'ers who spend more than
the 180 days, that get an fm3. They use
a trailer Park where they are staying,
which satisfies Mex IMM for residency
I believe you technically need an fm3
to enter into a contract, that can include
renting

[Edited on 5-26-2010 by sancho]

noproblemo2 - 5-26-2010 at 05:24 PM

I have heard, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong, that any rental/sale contract is not legal unless you have the FM-3/2 status... Again, it's what I have "heard".

toneart - 5-26-2010 at 08:07 PM

As been said here many times before, an FM3 protects your rights as a property owner in the case of any kind of dispute.

You could conceivably do without one and never have a problem, but why risk your investment and roll those dice? Mexico is fraught with pitfalls that could strip you of your real estate and your private possessions.

There are career Mexican opportunists who such as the infamous Mano Negro who make their living seeking out those vulnerabilities. In addition, there are the Ejidos who would love to claim your property. Lastly, there are myriad disputes that could occur between your neighbors; some legitimate and some seemingly unjust.

Consider the value of an FM3 as an insurance policy, an inoculation or a condom. :spingrin:

wessongroup - 5-26-2010 at 08:43 PM

to create threads like this.. isn't this fun....

Bajaboy - 5-26-2010 at 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Mainly it allows you to LIVE in Mexico LEGALLY and to appear in court when necessary. THE FMM is for turists and it would be difficult to convince anyone that you are only a turist if you are living (rental or otherwise) in Mexico. In the US everyone complains about illegals so why would you want to be an illegal in Mexico :?:

To say that everyone in the US complains about illegals is kind of a stretch :?:

Bajajorge - 5-28-2010 at 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy

Quote:

To say that everyone in the US complains about illegals is kind of a stretch :?:

You have no problem with illegals in the USA? What part of the word illegal don't you understand?

To answer your question, try staying in Mexico for a couple of months in a rental or a leased piece of property without an FM3. Mexican Immigration doesn't play patty cake like the US Immigration does. You'll be handcuffed and thrown into the back of a car or pick up truck and hauled to the border and thrown across in short order. They might let you keep what you have in your pockets at the time, not to include anything of value.

monoloco - 5-28-2010 at 08:13 AM

I know plenty of people who live in Baja part of the year and own or lease property without FM3's but I have never met anyone who was handcuffed thrown in the back of a car and deported for it. I have an FM3 and own property, lease property, have been involved in court actions defending a lease, made police reports, and been hassled by police, been in a car wreck, filed an insurance claim and have never been asked to produce my FM3 papers. Bottom line is: If you plan to stay in Mexico for over 180 days a year or own property then you should get the FM3 other than that you are wasting your time and money.

Bajajorge - 5-28-2010 at 08:18 AM

There's a couple of people that used to be around San Felipe who had the privilege of being hauled off to the border. They are also now barred from Mexico for I believe 5 years.

Maybe due to budget constraints Mexico doesn't haul people out of Baja Sur. :lol:

LaTijereta - 5-28-2010 at 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
With a current FM3 you do not have to leave Mexico at all---

Technically, it is supposed to be stamped when you leave and return---easy by airplane, seldom done by land

With the new FM3/FM2 "ID cards" there is no more stamping.. No one knows if you are here or gone..

O.G. - 5-28-2010 at 09:05 AM

I used to fly into Ensenada with an FM-T, multiple times with the same FM-T. Then, the last time, immigration took my pass away and said we (a family of 4) must purchase a NEW FM-T (now an FMM) every time we arrive. The 180 day mention on our old FM-T's was intertpreted as allowing ONE entry/exit in a 180 day period. So...I was faced with purchasing 4 FMM's each and every visit. Since I plan to berth my boat at Cruisport in the near future -- permanently -- an FM 3 is starting to look like our permanent solution. I just need to establish myself at Cruiseport to get a "residence" to qualify for the FM-3.

DianaT - 5-28-2010 at 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaTijereta

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
With a current FM3 you do not have to leave Mexico at all---

Technically, it is supposed to be stamped when you leave and return---easy by airplane, seldom done by land

With the new FM3/FM2 "ID cards" there is no more stamping.. No one knows if you are here or gone..

I thought that under the new rules, even though we will have our FM3 card, we are "technically" supposed to obtain a FMM when we enter and turn it in when we leave?

I keep getting this vision of several hundred people stopping and blocking the traffic lanes at the Tijuana border while they all at one time, exit their vehicles, jump the fence and run across to the immigration office on the other side to drop off their FMMs. :biggrin:

[Edited on 5-28-2010 by DianaT]

durrelllrobert - 5-28-2010 at 09:24 AM

Quote:

To say that everyone in the US complains about illegals is kind of a stretch :?:

Correcto ... should have said that everyone in US that is affected by illegal immigration complains :yes:

bonanza bucko - 5-28-2010 at 09:26 AM

When you fly into Mexico they require you to get a new FMM each time because your destination in the airplane is harder to track....that's the reason I'm told for the difference with visitors on the ground. They also assume, wrongly, that us pilotos won't mind spending $100 +/_ for four people in the bird on each trip.

And, in some cases to make things worse, they require a new FMM each time you land....Loreto used to do that. I think they have stopped but the lure of a fresh $100 bill each time a new Gringo bird lands is pretty hard to forget.

O.G. - 5-28-2010 at 10:13 AM

And, Isn't Ensenada in the "border zone" and exempt from FMM requirements. And, if I go to Cruiseport marina to spend less than 7 days shouldin't I be exempt also? My agent in Ensenada, Ms Aida Ochoa, says to get a "multipurpose visa" (FMM???) at the border and say that it will be exchanged for a FM3 soon. I sure hope she knows what she is doing, as I am confused. Again, I/we fly in by private airplane to Ensenada rather than drive... .

Bajaboy - 5-28-2010 at 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajorge

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy

Quote:

To say that everyone in the US complains about illegals is kind of a stretch :?:

I didn't anything about how I feel :?:

I merely suggested that not everyone in the US has a problem with illegal immigration.

DavidE - 5-28-2010 at 10:46 AM

Border zone regs only apply for 72 hours. That's three days. The rest of Mexico you need an FMM to enter.

An FM3 is a ONE YEAR tourist permit. A rentista must show proof of income to the INM officer, and pay about 2,200 pesos total to obtain the first FM-3. 4 additional annual PRORROGAS are allowed costing around 1,450 pesos. The applicant must then choose whether to apply for an FM-2 or abandon the FM-3 and start over with another FM-3.

A car permit (mainland) is as good as long as the FM-3 is valid. I am going to be exiting Mexico in a couple of weeks for Guatemala and Honduras. Because my 180 days has elapsed, the car permit has expired and upon my re-entry in Mexico I must purchase another. Migracion will merely stamp my FM-3 at no charge.

I see my grand daughter has arrived and she is hanging on my like a coat on a rack. Vamanos bebe a regla las plantas!

bajalou - 5-28-2010 at 12:46 PM

you're loosing me here DavidE.

You say "A car permit (mainland) is as good as long as the FM-3 is valid."

Then you say "Because my 180 days has elapsed, the car permit has expired and upon my re-entry in Mexico I must purchase another."

And you say " Migracion will merely stamp my FM-3 at no charge."

If the TIP (Temp Import Permit) is good as long as the FM3 is valid, why would you need another after 180 days?

DavidE - 5-28-2010 at 01:24 PM

Sorry --- I tried to abbreviate...

The permit is good as long as the car remains in Mexico. Before the 180-days of the car permit expires and while the car permit is still good, you can leave and re-enter as many times as you wish using that permit.

When you depart in a car with a permit that has expired, you must turn it in when you get the FM-3 stamped "salida". Upon re-entry the car must be re-bonded with a credit card or ATM visa card. You must not let the car permit expire outside of Mexico and then attempt to re-enter with the car. If there is any doubt of being able to return before the permit expires, turn it in as you leave.

But if the car never leaves Mexico, and the FM-3 is maintained valid, then the car permit remains valid even though the documentation says that it has expired.

Technically a person is not supposed to leave a bonded car in Mexico under an expired FM-3 while visiting outside the country. But it is done all the time, just not rigidly enforced.

If your FM-3 is valid so is your car permit inside Mexico. Exit and you're just another tourist as far as SAT ADUANA is concerned.

wessongroup - 5-28-2010 at 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bonanza bucko
I'm still confused. What is the purpose of an FM3?
Do you have to rent property to get one?
How often must you leave Mexico to have one?
Must you turn it in...or get it stamped...when you leave?
Why is it better than an FMM?
What good is it?

BB :?:

It comes after 2 :cool:

robrt8 - 5-30-2010 at 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
As been said here many times before, an FM3 protects your rights as a property owner in the case of any kind of dispute.

You could conceivably do without one and never have a problem, but why risk your investment and roll those dice? Mexico is fraught with pitfalls that could strip you of your real estate and your private possessions.

There are career Mexican opportunists who such as the infamous Mano Negro who make their living seeking out those vulnerabilities. In addition, there are the Ejidos who would love to claim your property. Lastly, there are myriad disputes that could occur between your neighbors; some legitimate and some seemingly unjust.

Consider the value of an FM3 as an insurance policy, an inoculation or a condom. :spingrin:

I recently noticed a new paragraph on the FMM card. It says "this allows the holder to acquire real property in Mexico and the rights to such, subject to Article 27 of the constitution..." I'm poorly paraphrasing here, but it does say something like that on the FMM itself now.

DENNIS - 5-30-2010 at 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by robrt8
I recently noticed a new paragraph on the FMM card. It says "this allows the holder to acquire real property in Mexico and the rights to such, subject to Article 27 of the constitution..." I'm poorly paraphrasing here, but it does say something like that on the FMM itself now.

That must mean land away from the Protected Zone.. near the border and the shore. I think that includes all bodies of water.

DENNIS - 5-30-2010 at 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajorge

Mexican Immigration doesn't play patty cake like the US Immigration does. You'll be handcuffed and thrown into the back of a car or pick up truck and hauled to the border and thrown across in short order. They might let you keep what you have in your pockets at the time, not to include anything of value.

Jeeeezo, Jorge....where do they act like that? San Felipe? What with the bad rep the Ensenada agents have earned for themselves, it's mostly due to their in-office nastiness. I don't think I've ever seen them out and about hunting illegals. [maybe they give more attention to "probable cause" than I was aware of..............Nah. That can't be it]

MitchMan - 5-30-2010 at 01:35 PM

I need some absolute, unequivocal clarification.

DianaT' mentioned that even if one has an FM3, under the new rules now, one who now has an FM3 will also have to obtain and pay for an FMM each and every time the FM3 holder enters Mexico. Question 1 - Is that correct?

Side question: Is an FMM good for only "consecutive" days of up to 180 consecutive days? If an FMM is only good for "consecutive" days. By implication, for example, that would mean that if you entered and left Mexico 3 times in a 40 day period, you would have to purchase a new FMM separarately for each of said 3 visits within a 40 day period.

DianaT - 5-30-2010 at 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MitchMan
I need some absolute, unequivocal clarification.

DianaT' mentioned that even if one has an FM3, under the new rules now, one who now has an FM3 will also have to obtain and pay for an FMM each and every time the FM3 holder enters Mexico. Question 1 - Is that correct?

Let me clarify :lol:

---that is what one of the immigration officers at Guerrero Negro told us would eventually happen, but she was not sure---. I also read it somewhere else, but not sure where???

So, I sure hope someone else has some clarification????

Cypress - 5-30-2010 at 01:45 PM

Clarification? :lol:

DianaT - 5-30-2010 at 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7

Quote:

Can't help you with absolute or unequivocal :lol:

, but according to the new immigration manual published in late January, FM2/3 holders are supposed to fill certain entry/exit info on the FMM "for statistical purposes". Essentially, it's being used in place of the FME form we used to fill out. IMO it won't work well, but that's irrelevant to your question.

Good question about paying. The FMT tourist tax was built into air ticket prices for flights originating outside Mexico, but I don't know if that will continue since the FMM is being used for non-tourists.

Kate

Now it is ALL very clear. :lol:

Oh well, maybe by next year it will be clarified. :lol:

BTW---Kate, thank you for your instructions for the internet form---worked great---took a few tries so we now have multiple numbers, but we are now armed with printed copies to take to the immigration office.

DianaT - 5-30-2010 at 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
BTW---Kate, thank you for your instructions for the internet form---worked great---took a few tries so we now have multiple numbers, but we are now armed with printed copies to take to the immigration office.

Don't think that was me ... I've looked at the form but haven't actually tried to use it, since my renewal isn't until November. By then I hope they'll really have things figured out! :lol:

Kate

Well it is that sometimer's acting up again. :yes:

So who ever it was, THANKS

And yes, by November, no doubt about it---it will all be totally clear, all immigration offices will be on the same page, there will be no confusion, no conflicting information, and :lol:

DENNIS - 5-30-2010 at 05:40 PM

The FM whatever doesn't have a negotiable point. It's not what you want to do with it, but what is required for being in country.
It isn't ours to accept or deny. It's their rule and we have to comply with it to be legal in our host country.
They ask us to cooperate in this effort and we should do just that.

[Edited on 5-31-2010 by DENNIS]

noproblemo2 - 5-30-2010 at 06:21 PM

Why anyone would take the risk of being an "illegal" here is beyond me, especially when one has any form of investment here, be it a palapa or home just not worth it....

Bajatripper - 7-6-2010 at 05:12 PM

Quote:

try staying in Mexico for a couple of months in a rental or a leased piece of property without an FM3. Mexican Immigration doesn't play patty cake like the US Immigration does. You'll be handcuffed and thrown into the back of a car or pick up truck and hauled to the border and thrown across in short order.

We (my family) were illegals in Mexico for four and a half years during the 1960s and would have welcomed that ride to the border, even if they would have thrown us across that last yard. In more recent times, I rented a house in La Paz for a year before getting my FM-3, still no ride to the border. So my personal experience doesn't support your argument. While I realize Mexican officials would have been within their rights to bounce me across the border, my point is that they usually don't sweat that type of stuff, unless one is prone to misbehaving.

Just saying

FM3 Exit Stamps

danaeb - 7-6-2010 at 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by LaTijereta

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
With a current FM3 you do not have to leave Mexico at all---

Technically, it is supposed to be stamped when you leave and return---easy by airplane, seldom done by land

With the new FM3/FM2 "ID cards" there is no more stamping.. No one knows if you are here or gone..

[Edited on 5-28-2010 by DianaT]

After my third run-in with immigration officials at the TJ airport who threaten to keep me from boarding my plane because my FM3 exit stamps don't match my entrance stamps, I met with officials at the La Paz office to explain the impossibility of obtaining the exit stamp at Otay or San Ysidro. I was told that the exit stamp issue ONLY applies to FM2's because of the 'days out of the country' requirements.

As I speak, they are annotating my FM3 with the applicable
regulations (anotaciones complementarias). I hope I haven't started a peeing contest between the two offices.....