BajaNomad

Cleaning fish

vandenberg - 6-2-2010 at 05:02 PM

Here another one of those articles which make you wonder if some people have all their marbles. What follows here was send to my wife.
Likely were referring to the fact you're not supposed to clean your fish in the ocean, so species and quotas can be established by the authorities.


By the way, copied this from the Baja Pony Express:

Ran into a friend of mine on the way down to Los Cabos a couple of weeks ago. He was going fishing in Loreto on a private 45' sportfisher. After a day of fishing, on the way back in, they were stopped by four Federales and their boat was boarded. After boarding the police asked to see their fish. Upon seeing it and that it had been cleaned, they advised my friend and his companions that there was a new law in Mexico that only allowed Mexican citizens to clean fish and that you were not allowed to clean your own fish. They demanded $1,000 in $100 bills fine, took the money and left. Another reason that American's do not want to visit Mexico. (Unsigned)

jeremias - 6-2-2010 at 05:05 PM

sounds like fish cleaning racism.

Udo - 6-2-2010 at 05:12 PM

Aquatic mordida.

I'll bet those fishermen felt pretty stupid after they told their friends.:lol:

longlegsinlapaz - 6-2-2010 at 05:14 PM

Sounds like BS MORDITA pure & simple!:no:

Vandenberg, were you serious with your comment, "fact you're not supposed to clean your fish in the ocean, so species and quotas can be established by the authorities"? Is that honestly a law?:?:

Osprey - 6-2-2010 at 05:23 PM

The law is that if you are sportfishing, with private sportfishing licencses, you are not permitted to filet/clean any sea animal on your boat. It's not a nutty law -- it was enacted into law to allow inspectors to check your catch and be able to discern how many and what kind of fish you caught and kept. Simple, direct, effective like many Mexican laws.

[Edited on 6-3-2010 by Osprey]

jeremias - 6-2-2010 at 05:26 PM

that may be the law, but he's claiming they said "only Mexican citizens can clean fish".

longlegsinlapaz - 6-2-2010 at 05:29 PM

Gracias Osprey!:yes: I'm still betting the $$ never made it back to the Federale shop & no "ticket" nor receipt was written....cynical wench that I am!

k-rico - 6-2-2010 at 05:30 PM

Were the fishermen from Arizona? :o

Heavy mordida if you show an AZ ID.

Beware Zonies. Make sure you have the correct visa when in Mex. :lol:

I don't believe any of the story BTW.

[Edited on 6-3-2010 by k-rico]

Russ - 6-2-2010 at 05:39 PM

I also suspect there is a law that says if you let your game fish spoil you have to pay mordida too. Of course all my fish will fit whole in to my cooler but if by chance I catch a big fish I'm cleaning it and getting it on ice asap.

Cypress - 6-2-2010 at 05:42 PM

There are laws against cleaning fish onboard while fishing in US waters also.

Osprey - 6-2-2010 at 05:59 PM

No I think he said "Only Mexicans can clean fish correctly". I personally think he's wrong about that because a lot of my gringo friends will not say they have completed the fileting of a fish until and unless they get the good "Cheek Chunks".

Skipjack Joe - 6-2-2010 at 07:20 PM

I believe you can clean it but some of the skin needs to remain on the fish for identification.

DENNIS - 6-2-2010 at 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
They demanded $1,000 in $100 bills


Getting picky, arn't they. Does this mean the days of giving them an out of state, two party check are over?

Bob and Susan - 6-3-2010 at 05:11 AM

do you notice these "stories" are always
go like "Ran into a friend of mine..."

and

"he said"....

they NEVER say "it happended tp ME and this is the TRUTH!!!"
and my name is...

probably just another "urban myth" to "stir the pot":light:

Osprey - 6-3-2010 at 06:31 AM

Skip, I don't trust the inspectors here to know all the laws. I have a copy of the Pesca book and I take that on the boat with my license. It gets a little tricky no matter what -- always hope to pull in a big fat barillete early for skip bait, chum, chunck bait so legally I start the morning off all wrong. On my boat I always have a couple of big burlap sacks and plenty of bottles of frozen water -- all the take home food fish allowed goes in the bags with ice and then the whole shebang gets soaked right on the deck away from the action.

Fish cleaning

Hooker33 - 6-3-2010 at 06:33 AM

For the past two years of fishing with my Mexican friend Ramon in Cabo he now guts the fish but no longer filets them as the local federales are actively spot checking the fishing boats. As long as the fish is identifiable you're ok. We now gut them and get them on ice and finish cleaning them at home.

bajabass - 6-3-2010 at 07:00 AM

The law in CA is you must leave a one square inch of skin on each fillet for I.D. Just gill, gut, and bleed all kept fish, within the limits of course. If you can, pack the body cavity with ice, chills faster, better. As far as mordida goes, beware! I had a immigration employee tag me for 1000 pesos at the La Paz airport, and pocket it.

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-3-2010 at 08:23 AM

Hola, it is definitely illegal to clean fish in mexican waters. PERIOD !!!! all the boats out of san diego going south of the border used to clean fish including the long range boats on all of their trips but, a few years ago, it stopped due to mexican officials enforcing the law and so did the " side money " the crews used to make at around thirty cents a pound in the round or a per fish cleaning charge, which used to add considerable sums to their pockets, and rightfully so. IT IS THE LAW ! WE ARE GUESTS TO A FOREIGN ENTITY !

last year in los barriles, boats were boarded out on the water or searched upon arrival at the docks and if fish were cleaned, the boat and all the gear aboard were confiscated. supposedly per day, the hotel boats were supposed to allow one fish and game person on one of the hotels chartered cruisers along with their passengers and the fish and game people could pull other boats over and inspect them. there was an uproar over paying customers and the crews having their cruisers used for fish and game activities and taking fishing time away and also putting the customers in harm's way if a cited customer became hostile. this was validated by one of the hotels major personnel.

after confiscation of either boat or gear or both, the offending party ( ies ) would have to go to la paz and go to a hearing for penalties. recently, i have heard the offending party ( ies ) could either go to la ribera or los barriles degation.

if you are an offending party, i would hope that you have the intelligence enough to get a citation in writing and also have accurate descriptions of confiscated items as well as the officials name and pertinent information including the vehicle ( s ) it was placed in ( if on shore ) so you have the ability to pursue retrieving your equipment and from whom and what location. being most of the hotels customers are here in a limited and short time frame, it is very likely that this will become another mordida issue.

QUESTION: what consitutes cleaning ? can a caught and killed fish be gutted and have the head removed for easier and less room consumption in body bags or ice chests or does cleaning mean any mutilation of a kept fish with the exception of damage created by a gaff or any fish retrieval mechanism?

with the realization of mexican laws and the interpretation of the official making the accusaton, i am sure there must be in print somewhere as to the definition where these fine lines should be. if so, i would suggest carrying a written copy in english AND in spanish along with your fishing license and hope the official has the ability to properly interpret them. hopefully, he/she can read.

i am sure this fodder will lessen fishing visitors in the future for those that do bring their own and usually expensive equipment !

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

regs

mulege marv - 6-3-2010 at 09:35 AM

In order to operate a boat that carries fishing equipment in Mexican waters, it is necessary to hold a valid personal fishing license for everybody aboard the boat, REGARDLESS OF AGE AND WHETHER FISHING OR NOT.

Only one rod or line with hook is permitted in the water, per person, but there is no restriction regarding the number of replacement items (extra rods not in the water).

A sportfishing license allows the capture only of fin fish. It does not allow the capture of any mollusks or crustaceans, and their capture by anyone is strictly prohibited. Totuava, turtles and marine mammals are under the protection of the Ministry and may not be captured at any time.

BAG AND POSSESSION LIMITS
In ocean waters and estuaries, the limit is a total of ten (10) fish per day, with no more than five (5) fish of a single species, except the species of Marlin, Sailfish and Swordfish, of which only one (1) specimen of either is allowed per day, or Dorado, Roosterfish, Shad, Tarpon or Shark, of which only two (2) specimens of each is allowed per day.

Limit on inland bodies of water (rivers, lakes, dams, etc.) is five (5) fish per day, whether of a single species or in combination.

Underwater fishing is limited to five (5) fish per day, using rubber band or spring-type harpoons, and only while skin diving. There is no limit to the practice of "Catch & Release" as long as the fish that exceed the bag limit are returned to the environment in good survivable condition.

Where sportfishing is conducted from boats out at sea longer than three (3) days, the bag limit will be the equivalent of three (3) times the amounts mentioned above.

VIOLATIONS
It is illegal to capture and maintain alive any fish for ornamental purposes.

It is illegal to fillet any fish aboard a boat.

It is prohibited to receive any financial gain from the product obtained through sportfishing.

It is prohibited to dump trash, litter or other substances that harm the aquatic flora or fauna, whether on lakes, river banks, shores or oceanic waters.

It is prohibited to collect shells, corals, sea anemones and snails, or to disturb the original ecosystem environment.

It is prohibited to practice sport fishing 250 meters or less from swimmers.

It is prohibited to use artificial lighting to attract large quantities of fish.

It is prohibited to discharge firearms in Mexican waters.

It is requested that all unusual activities, occurrences or record catches be reported to the nearest Office of the Ministery of the Environmental-Natural Resources and Fisheries, or to its representative in San Diego, CA, in order to ensure the preservation of natural resources for the continued enjoyment of all fishermen.

[Edited on 6-3-2010 by mulege marv]

Bob and Susan - 6-3-2010 at 10:55 AM

bajabass "beware! I had a immigration employee tag me for 1000 pesos at the La Paz airport, and pocket it."

you shouldn't say this..
you don't really know he pocketed it

your fine for being illegal is $1000 pesos
you should know better

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-3-2010 at 11:40 AM

Hola, vandenberg stated the fine was $ 1,000.00 in $ 100.00 bills. sounds to me like it was in DOLLARS, NOT PESOS !

please clarify as 1,000 pesos is really minimal IF any laws were broken.

the federales seem to be very specific in their demands. TEN $ 100.00 BILLS ! maybe it's easier for them to divide amongst each other, dollars or pesos ? if it were dollars, that's quite a wad of money to be carrying around, especially while fishing, unless you have deep pockets.

without receiving a citation and getting a receipt, i would also be of the same mindset as bajabass that the fee/fine/mordida was pocketed.

they always have you by the short hairs if you are scheduled for a flight out and don't and possibly can't take the time to dispute things.

perhaps that is why they are pulling people over in san jose del cabo's airport, FOR MORDIDA, as usually people arrive within the prescribed time frame for departures and cannot confront their accuser ( s ) in a formal setting ? and these are federal officers !

i am sure that it will be another item detrimental to the tourist industry ! just what we need ! shooting themselves in the foot may bring in more financial gain for the very few dishonest officials and without any consideration that word of mouth travels quickly and would do the harm to the businesses and the workers that would get crushed by the domino effect.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

Bob and Susan - 6-3-2010 at 11:59 AM

until someone "stands up" and says this was ME...

this is just another "urban myth" period

you can't speculate about this because it probably is UNTRUE

bajabass - 6-3-2010 at 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
bajabass "beware! I had a immigration employee tag me for 1000 pesos at the La Paz airport, and pocket it."

you shouldn't say this..
you don't really know he pocketed it

your fine for being illegal is $1000 pesos
you should know better
I fully agree I was wrong in not obtaining my FMM as I walked across. I was taken to an office where I was given an FMM and a bogus receipt for 1000 pesos. Paid to the imm. employee. A friend thought it was strange not to pay at a bank. Went to the office on the malecon. 45 minutes later, my 2 500 peso notes, tri-folded and damp, were taken to the office and returned to me by apologetic employees. I then filled out another form, went to the bank, paid 840 pesos total, returned to the office, and got a legitiment FMM. I was told you NEVER pay at the office, ALWAYS at a bank. True, I did not see the money enter a pocket, but it sure was damp!!! My reciept and FMM were not legit. I was wrong, and it will not happen again. Just a heads up for anyone who makes a similar mistake. If you do not pay at the bank, your paperwork may not be legal. If it were not for a more knowledgable friend, I never would have figured it out.:?:

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-3-2010 at 01:12 PM

Hola, bob & susan, yes, many things are passed along and they may be embellished gossip or as you call them, urban myths or they may well be totally factual and assist others to keep them out of trouble or harms way.

we hear many things second hand and pass them along but if we were only allowed " first person " reporting, i would imagine we would have very short threads and unfortunately, information wouldn't be passed along to others that my benefit from it.

fishing citations, mordida stops in constitucion, and the asking for registration and drivers licenses and proof of insurance driving into and out of the san jose del cabo airport, radar stops between los barriles and the san jose del cabo airport, alerting travelers of construction on hiways,
bridges out, etc., etc.

yes, " urban myths " abound but we most usually take things with a grain of salt until validated.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-3-2010 at 01:20 PM

POSTED BY BAJABASS

The law in CA is you must leave a one square inch of skin on each fillet for I.D. Just gill, gut, and bleed all kept fish, within the limits of course. If you can, pack the body cavity with ice, chills faster, better. As far as mordida goes, beware! I had a immigration employee tag me for 1000 pesos at the La Paz airport, and pocket it.

Hola, your adddition to the thread said nothing about your illegal immigration situation as the thread was regarding filleting fish and was TOTALLY misleading.

i would hope people would be more explicit in their postings so as not to give clarification regarding another situation at a later time.

SORRY....

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

bajabass - 6-3-2010 at 01:34 PM

Simply relaying the fact that fines do not always go where they should, and possible repurcussions. Sorry, I will be clearer in the future.

BajaBruno - 6-3-2010 at 01:45 PM

The filleting fish onboard regulation is:

4.14 Los organismos capturados al amparo de permisos de pesca deportivo recreativa, no podrán filetearse a bordo de las embarcaciones utilizadas.

To me, that reads no filleting and is silent about "cleaning." Just like Osprey, I carry a copy of the rules onboard so they can show me which one they want to enforce. This can potentially save a lot of misunderstandings if the inspectors haven't read the text lately.

Santiago - 6-3-2010 at 03:25 PM

Where can a copy of the regs be had?

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-4-2010 at 02:08 AM

Hola, here are two blurbs from bajaponyexpress3 that gives another situation and also the fishing regulations.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

FISHING IN THE SEA OF CORTEZ

a. Note reference Loreto Marine Park laws:
The laws out of Loreto for fishing or even being in the Marine Park are draconian, and were influenced heavily by Americans who wanted Mexico to apply "no use" laws in the marine park. Anyone, EVERYONE who is in the marine park needs to pay a daily fee and have a permit; anyone, EVERYONE in a boat, even if only one person is fishing, needs a Mexican fishing license, PLUS the daily marine park fee; You are not allowed to anchor your boat anywhere in the Preserve; you are not allowed to land and walk on any of the islands; you are not allowed to clean your fish on the water in the park (as if fish guts would be BAD for the ecosystem?); and the list goes on. The laws have been in effect for years and years, but they have not been able to patrol or enforce the laws to date, but it looks like they are, now. Truth be told, the old Baja is NOT the way it used to be, and in this economy, it seems like everyone down there has their hand out. Almost always, you are just fine if you are fishing with an established Mexican fleet anywhere in the Baja, and in Loreto, I know that Arturo's Sportfishing is fine. But private boaters are definitely a target. Take care everywhere down there. Bill Karr, Western Outdoor News.

b. After reading today’s posting about a sportfisher being boarded in Loreto, I thought it might be helpful to offer a little “refresher” on Mexican fishing regulations. Here is a link to Conapesca’s official fishing regulations page: http://www.conapescasandiego.org/contenido.cfm? cont=REGULATIONS. It is short and sweet and very clear. As for the incident in Loreto, the regs clearly state that “fish caught under a sportfishing license may not be filleted aboard the vessel from which it was caught.” This point is listed under “ VIOLATIONS”. I understand that a VIOLATION can result in your boat being confiscated by the government, so be sure to follow the regs! Julie

c. Mexican Sport Fishing Regulations state:
"Fish caught under a sport fishing license may not be filleted aboard the vessel from which it was caught."
Mexico’s National Aquaculture and Fishing Commission (CONAPESCA) welcomes you to practice and enjoy sport fishing in our inland and ocean waters.
Read and print all the Mexican sport fishing regulations here:
http://www.conapescasandiego.com/contenido.cfm?cont=REGULATI...
Gracias
==========================

HERE ARE THE REGULATIONS:

MEXICAN SPORTFISHING REGULATIONS


When operating a boat that carries fishing equipment in Mexican waters, it is necessary to hold a valid fishing license for everybody aboard the boat, regardless of age and whether fishing or not. A Fishing License is not required when fishing from land.
Only one rod or line with hook is permitted in the water, per person, but there is no restriction regarding the number of replacement items.
A fishing license allows to capture only fin fish. It does not allow to capture any other mollusks or crustaceans, and their capture by anyone is strictly prohibited. Totuava, turtles and marine mammals are under protection of the Ministry and may not be captured at any time.
To capture bottom fish, up to four hooks on a vertical line may be used.
The use of electric reels is restricted to disabled fishermen only, after written authorization for the Ministry before use.


BAG AND POSSESSION LIMITS

In ocean waters and estuaries the limit is a total of ten fish per person per day, with no more than 5 catches of a single specie, except of the species of Marlin, Sailfish, Swordfish and Shark, of which only one specimen from this group is allowed per day, and which counts a five toward the overall 10 fish limit, or Dorado, Roosterfish, Shad, or Tarpon, of which only two samples from this group are allowed, and which count as five toward the overall 10 fish limit.

Limit on inland bodies of water (rivers, lakes, dams, etc.) is five fish per day, whether of a single specie or in combination.

Underwater fishing is limited to five fish per day, using rubber band or spring type harpoons, and only while skindiving.

There is no limit to the practice of "catch and release", as long as the fish that exceed the bag limit be returned to their environment in good survival condition.

Where sportfishing is conducted from boats out at sea for longer than three days, the bag limit will be the equivalent of three times the amounts mentioned above.


VIOLATIONS


It is illegal to capture and maintain alive any fish for ornamental purposes.
It is prohibited to receive any financial gain from the product obtained through sportfishing.
It is prohibited to dump trash, litter or substances that harm the aquatic flora or fauna, whether on lakes, river banks, shores or oceanic waters.
It is prohibited to collect shells, corals, sea anemones and snails, or to disturb the original ecosystem environment.
It is prohibited to practice sportfishing 250 meters or less from swimmers.
It is prohibited to use artificial lighting to attract large quantities of fish.
It is prohibited to discharge firearms in Mexican waters.
Fish caught under a sportfishing license may not be filletted aboard the vessel from which it was caught
It is requested that all unusual activities, occurrences or record catches be reported to the nearest office of the Oficina de Pesca, or to its representation in San Diego, CA., in order to ensure the preservation of natural resources for the continued enjoyment of all fishermen.

WE INVITE YOU TO PRACTICE
RESPONSIBLE SPORTFISHING!

Friday, June 04 2010 You can print the
License Request form
in this website.
Click here

To print
Sporfishing
Regulations
Click here
2550 Fifth Avenue # 15 San Diego, CA.92103 Ph: (619) 233-4324 Fax: (619) 233-0344
Copyright © 2007 A web development of Everest Software Solutions

And this is a problem????

bajaguy - 6-4-2010 at 06:46 AM

Just follow the law. It's their country, we are visitors and guests.

wilderone - 6-4-2010 at 07:03 AM

ok - so there's rules and regulations, and fines for breaking the laws. But what are the procedures for collecting the fines? Are you accused, tried, judged and fined on the spot? That's the procedure? No recourse to dispute the charges? The federales demanded $1000 on the boat? Why would anyone be carrying around that much money while fishing? But more important, what are the procedures for attempting to fine someone for breaking the fishing regulations? And where are the amount of the fines (per violation, per fish) posted? I would like to hear from a government authority.

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-4-2010 at 10:52 AM

Hola Wilderone, here is some information that may guide you to a government authority regarding your inquiries. please post a followup.

also, is there a difference between filleting and cleaning ? would like to know if fish can be headed, tailed and gutted, not filleted.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

It is requested that all unusual activities, occurrences or record catches be reported to the nearest office of the Oficina de Pesca, or to its representation in San Diego, CA., in order to ensure the preservation of natural resources for the continued enjoyment of all fishermen.

2550 Fifth Avenue # 15 San Diego, CA.92103 Ph: (619) 233-4324 Fax: (619) 233-0344

wessongroup - 6-4-2010 at 02:23 PM

"In the case of fish, fillets are generally obtained by slicing parallel to the spine, rather than perpendicular to the spine as is the case with steaks. The remaining bones with the attached flesh is called the "frame", and is often used to make fish stock. As opposed to whole fish or fish steaks, fillets do not contain the fish's backbone; they yield less flesh, but are easier to eat."

The procedures used by the enforcing officer, will most likely be site specific... to avoid fines and that situation.. don't filet the fish.. gutting would not be filleting, by any reasonable person.. however, would imagine the official on the spot will make that call, based on a number of factors ...

If you don't have $1,000 dollars on you... aahhhh anybody been arrested, had their boat sized, license revoked.. small children taken.. spam or beer confiscated .. you know really bad things... :lol::lol:

Would suggest to say far way from site specific interpretations as possible.. :):)

BajaBruno - 6-4-2010 at 02:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Just follow the law. It's their country, we are visitors and guests.


No offense intended, Bajaguy, but your statement is a little simplistic when the law is not clear and is enforced arbitrarily.

Cypress - 6-4-2010 at 02:52 PM

No big deal. It's not that complicated. Don't fillet your catch onboard. You can gut 'em and pack ice in the cavity. They only want to be able to determine what and how many of any given species you've caught.:o

bajaguy - 6-4-2010 at 03:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBruno
Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Just follow the law. It's their country, we are visitors and guests.


No offense intended, Bajaguy, but your statement is a little simplistic when the law is not clear and is enforced arbitrarily.






You are correct......after all, it is Mexico. What may be the law and enforced today, is still the law and not enforced tomorrow..........

wessongroup - 6-4-2010 at 05:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
No big deal. It's not that complicated. Don't fillet your catch onboard. You can gut 'em and pack ice in the cavity. They only want to be able to determine what and how many of any given species you've caught.:o


ditto's

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-5-2010 at 01:36 PM

Hola, this was posted on the bajaponyexpress3 today:

FISHING REGS
Per Romeo, Head of the Los Cabos fish police:
You cannot filet fish on board.
You can gill and gut them.

still do not know if we can HEAD, gill & gut out on the water.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

Cypress - 6-5-2010 at 02:04 PM

Cutting the head off? Could be probalmatic

Bob and Susan - 6-5-2010 at 02:07 PM

here is a question...

if you are fileting...why do you want to cut the head off?

it seems easier to me with the head on

Cypress - 6-5-2010 at 03:27 PM

Bob and Susan. You could leave the head attached to filets.:light:

bajabass - 6-5-2010 at 04:00 PM

2 gilled, gutted, and beheaded dorado bulls will fit in my cooler. I would like a little heads up, as I am moving south very soon.:?::biggrin:

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 6-6-2010 at 07:31 PM

Hola bob & susan, please be so kind as to reread my last post that you responded to.

" still do not know if we can HEAD, GILL & GUT out on the water. "

i did not make any reference to filleting although that is what this thread is all about. i merely basically stated that i would like to HEAD, GILL & GUT fish to keep cold in either a body bag or ice chest in a more compact form.

if the regulations are for the ability of identifying fish, it would still be identifieable.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT