BajaNomad - teen shot by border patrol

teen shot by border patrol

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astrobaja - 6-9-2010 at 03:16 PM

Not specifically Baja but related due to incident at the TJ border. Nobodys talking about this one? I saw it on yahoo.com Theres talk now the kid did'nt even throw rocks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100609/ap_on_re_us/us_border_pa...

After the report in the comments area there are 1000's of to me blatently racist and ugly xenophobic sentiments displayed. Some are openly celebratory over the teens death! VERY sad!

[Edited on 6-9-2010 by astrobaja]

DENNIS - 6-9-2010 at 03:35 PM

"A U.S. official close to the investigation told the AP that authorities have a video showing that the Border Patrol agent did not cross into Mexico. In fact, the official said, the video shows what appear to be members of Mexican law enforcement crossing onto the U.S. side, picking something up and returning to Mexico. The official was not cleared to speak about the video and spoke only on condition of anonymity."

Let's see the vid. You can't believe anything anyone says.

Barry A. - 6-9-2010 at 04:21 PM

Law Enforcement considers a "rock" a deadly weapon, and appropriate defensive action, including deadly force, is appropriate if the officer believed that his, or somebody else was in danger of being injured or killed.

Lets let the investigation play out. There is normally more to every story than the press indicates.

Barry

Woooosh - 6-9-2010 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Law Enforcement considers a "rock" a deadly weapon, and appropriate defensive action, including deadly force, is appropriate if the officer believed that his, or somebody else was in danger of being injured or killed.

Lets let the investigation play out. There is normally more to every story than the press indicates.

Barry

no kidding- look at these new details/allegations...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-06-09-mexican-border...

wessongroup - 6-9-2010 at 06:43 PM

really bad.. really ....

Bajaboy - 6-9-2010 at 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by astrobaja
Not specifically Baja but related due to incident at the TJ border. Nobodys talking about this one? I saw it on yahoo.com Theres talk now the kid did'nt even throw rocks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100609/ap_on_re_us/us_border_pa...

After the report in the comments area there are 1000's of to me blatently racist and ugly xenophobic sentiments displayed. Some are openly celebratory over the teens death! VERY sad!

[Edited on 6-9-2010 by astrobaja]

So what do you think would happen if you decided to throw rocks at the soldiers at a Baja checkpoint?

Woooosh - 6-9-2010 at 08:09 PM

Rocks are a lethal weapon. Countries still have death by stoning after all. It's too bad this 15 year old boy was so misdirected as to be throwing them in the first place. What's up with that? ... an after-school workshop or something? Too bad kids have to live in the violence and get pulled into it- happens in all third world countries.

toneart - 6-9-2010 at 08:11 PM

It is alleged that our officers crossed over into Mexico and shot the kid in his own country. This makes it an illegal, international atrocity. Even if the allegations prove false, it is still wrong. How do you think the Mexican authorities will regard us? Violence begets violence. It makes us more vulnerable while traveling or living in Mexico. You know the resentment already seethes in their souls. Hard feelings can escalate pretty quickly.

Regardless of how the investigation plays out (just who is going to do the investigation? :rolleyes:

) , you have heard my opinion on this subject before. Here it is again:"Law Enforcement considers a "rock" a deadly weapon." While it is possible that a rock could kill someone, it is more likely that a person hit by a rock would survive with minor injuries. A thrown rock is no match for the firepower of rifles, especially by trained law enforcement personnel!!! A rifle is lethal. That is the intent. It is morally reprehensible and immoral to use lethal force on a rock thrower, because the outcome is predetermined!!! When law enforcement, with the backing of a belligerent government policy around the world, including being used against our neighbors just across our own borders makes such a stand it is dead wrong! The law is not an absolute when it is wrong. Question authority. Resist. Protest.

Furthermore, the practice is chicken s**t and you who practice and condone it are also the same. Shame on you!

Ok, well I did some name-calling which violates my code, but in this case it separates me from your atrocities, and I stand proud of that. I totally disavow your atrocities. I stand in solidarity with the Mexican People!

bajaguy - 6-9-2010 at 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
It is alleged that our officers crossed over into Mexico and shot the kid in his own country. This makes it an illegal, international atrocity. Even if the allegations prove false, it is still wrong. How do you think the Mexican authorities will regard us? Violence begets violence. It makes us more vulnerable while traveling or living in Mexico. You know the resentment already seethes in their souls. Hard feelings can escalate pretty quickly.

Regardless of how the investigation plays out (just who is going to do the investigation? :rolleyes:

It's all Bush's fault..............

Barry A. - 6-9-2010 at 08:23 PM

Tony---------then change the law!!!! In the meantime, 10's of thousands of Police Officers will continue to be trained to treat "rock throwing" as a lethal (sp?) threat.

I, for one, would NOT want to be a LE officer if I was not able to defend myself--------THAT would be insane!!! and I cannot believe that ANY thinking and careing person would expect another person to take on that type of risk.

Barry

JESSE - 6-9-2010 at 08:49 PM

I understand that officers need to protect themselves, but what happened to a good old fashion arrest? i remember a similar incident in San Diego many years back. A man that had mental problems that was very well known to the Ocean Beach community was killed by officer simply because the guy refused arrest and waved a stick at them. The whole community was angry at the police for a long time.

I understand many will see this as legitimate defence, but to me, this is no way of dealing with a 14yr old kid, no matter what.

gnukid - 6-9-2010 at 09:47 PM

A child throws a rock, A Cop shoots to kill.

Congratulations to Barry and all the others who feel proud, smug and secure about this, while it's a sad illustration of the out of control and unaccountable police state.

Yeah...

Dave - 6-9-2010 at 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
it's a sad illustration of the out of control and unaccountable police state.

I know what you mean. It's getting out of control. We're now starting to hear about this stuff happening every six hours, or so. :rolleyes:

Sign me On ..............

MrBillM - 6-9-2010 at 10:16 PM

To the list of those who "Condone" the use of Deadly force by authorities in response to being attacked with Deadly Weapons, including ROCKS.

I'm more than willing to be considered Badly by Toneart and his band of Louts. Considering the source, it's something of an honor.

As they say:

"Sticks and STONES WILL break your Bones", but Liberal words are nothing but Crap".

Or, something like that.

BTW, there was late news today regarding the deceased's prior record. It will be interesting to see what truth there is to that.

Barry A. - 6-9-2010 at 10:17 PM

Gnu--------I spent 30 years as a LE officer (community, State and Federal), and have been retired for almost 15 years-------this is nothing new.

"Proud" is not part of the scenario that I am describing-------I am just stateing facts-------society hires people to enforce their laws, and the people thru their professional representatives define how that is to be done.

Perhaps you can institute change in how that is done, and that is the way it should work------in the mean time, officers will do what they have been trained to do-----how could you expect it to be different? And, do you really think that the officers should be punished for doing what they have been trained to do? If so, I find that untenable.

No body EVER told me that I was to risk my life without defending myself-----in fact just the opposite---------I was told to defend myself, and others, no matter what, and given very specific criteria as to how to do that. To do otherwise puts all in danger.

Barry

gnukid - 6-9-2010 at 10:36 PM

Barry you are not the enemy, but you are talking out the side of your mouth. I understand you have a lifelong commitment to defend another officer, so you can not consider taking a rational position, consider the facts, the circumstances, alternatives. You are not the issue nor am I.

No one, anywhere, by any means, can support the shooting of a Child who threw a rock, by someone charged with maintaining peace and order.

Let's consider the issues:

The officer has no injuries

The Child is dead

The officer shot at a Child across an International Border

The Child was shot at close range with a 40 caliber weapon

The officer was under no requirement to pursue the Child

The officer had no legal means or justification to pursue the Child across the border

The officer put our National Interests at risks and must be aware of the weight of discharging his weapon in this case

The officer's needless actions put not only the people around him at risk but now as put two nations at risk

More than likely, this was no accident, this was a planned response to an expected circumstance as all police and military actions are. There is a reason for institutional police violence. The simple question is what is the reason, A) to bring peace to the border, B) to bring violence to the border, C) to cause International escalation toward increased Military and Police control.

Barry, please stop defending the indefensible.

[Edited on 6-10-2010 by gnukid]

Pants on fire

Dave - 6-9-2010 at 10:55 PM

Either...

His mother said he was a good student who never got in trouble. He was the youngest of five children, played on two soccer teams and had just finished junior high school, she said.

Or...

Huereka was charged with alien smuggling in 2009, according to sources who requested anonymity. Further details were not immediately available.

"He is a known juvenile smuggler," a source told Fox News. He was also on a "most wanted" list of juvenile smugglers compiled by U.S. authorities in the El Paso area, sources said.

Someone's lying. :rolleyes:

chnlisle - 6-9-2010 at 11:06 PM

When the dust clears on the investigation into the killing to the child in Juarez, the following facts will be disclosed, which will be verified by the video and reliable witnesses:

1. The child was not 14, he was 15 and the size of an adult. He could throw a rock hard enough to kill a human being.

2. The local polleros pay the children to throw rocks at the CBP to distract them while the polleros sneak their customers into the US at another location. These very same polleros pay off the local police to let them operate in the area and these cops get a piece of the action.

3. The CBP agent who shot the child was seperated from his team and was alone when he had captured an illegal immigrant and had him pinned on the ground on the US side.

4. The children surrounded the CBP agent and were throwing rocks at him to get him to chase after them so the illegal he had on the ground could scurry back into Mexico, which was only 20 feet away.

5. The CBP agent fired from his position in the US to get all the children to stop throwing rocks at him.

6. Four federales showed up almost immediately, (surprise, surpise) illegally crossed the Rio Grande into the US, picked up the .40 calibre spent cartridge fired by the CBP agent and walked back to the Mexican side and placed the cartridge near the body of the child.

7. The polleros, federales and children were all working in concert.

How many police officers have been killed by rocks?

JESSE - 6-9-2010 at 11:28 PM

none in almost seven decades

http://www.slate.com/id/2256457/

JESSE - 6-9-2010 at 11:33 PM

If Mexican police used the same "guidelines" for using deadly force against drunken american teens, there would be plenty of tourist kids killed every year.

But its just a Mexican boy, who now seems to be a big time wanted drug smuggler :rolleyes:

Dave - 6-9-2010 at 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
If Mexican police used the same "guidelines" for using deadly force against drunken american teens, there would be plenty of tourist kids killed every year.

One can only hope.

hbmurphy - 6-10-2010 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
If Mexican police used the same "guidelines" for using deadly force against drunken american teens, there would be plenty of tourist kids killed every year.

But its just a Mexican boy, who now seems to be a big time wanted drug smuggler :rolleyes:

Not only that but think of the payout that that US could provide... :no:

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
It is alleged that our officers crossed over into Mexico and shot the kid in his own country.

I believe that point will be challenged and shown to be BS.

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 10:34 AM

I refer back to my original post------------can we PLEASE just let the investigation play out?? All this speculation is just nuts, and counterproductive, IMO.

This was no "child". I personally have come oh so close to doing exactly what this Fed. officer did, and in fact was heavily reprimanded once when I failed to shoot a young perp in EXACTLY these same circumstances, except not on the border. There is NO justification for "rock throwing", period. Cops are not paid to take those kinds of abuse, period.

People are responsible for their aggressive actions, and generally speaking should not be surprised or enraged when others defend themselves. Let the Courts decide------that IS the system, and it is a good one as far as I am concerned, and if anything it tilts highly in favor of the accused in this Country.

It is astounding (and depressing) to me that some people can't see this.

Barry

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
I refer back to my original post------------can we PLEASE just let the investigation play out?? All this speculation is just nuts, and counterproductive, IMO.

Point well taken, Barry. Unfortunatly, from a need for feedback, we rarely get any. All that happens is that these issues end up being decided behind closed doors and are as full of political correctness as they are fact and transparency is long dead.
Speculation is public opinion. We're allowed that and not much more.

In this case, if Mexican police or military officials crossed the river and tampered with a crime scene, I want to know about.
If this BP agent panicked and blew away a young man without adaquate cause, I want to know about that as well.
If we don't discuss the available issues now, we never will.

[Edited on 6-10-2010 by DENNIS]

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2010 at 11:04 AM

Quote:

barry, do you have kids? there is never an excuse for shooting a kid because he was throwing rocks and acting like a juvenile. the murdering border patrol agent should have walked away from situation. excuses in the form of an "investigation" are meaningless. in fact, we lready know what the results of the "investigation" will be. bad people covering the butts of their fellow bad people.

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2010 at 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
I refer back to my original post------------can we PLEASE just let the investigation play out??

ha, ha. what investigation? the investigators conclusions were known before they started. you cannot trust law enforcement to investigate law enforcement. we can't trust barry, because he is/was a cop, and is of mindset that cops are never wrong, and any kill by a cop is a good kill. barry, you and your type are the problem with law enforcement, and the reason very few people trust law enforcement.

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2010 at 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
I refer back to my original post------------can we PLEASE just let the investigation play out?? All this speculation is just nuts, and counterproductive, IMO.

Point well taken, Barry.

dennis, you miss the point. there will be no impartial investigation conducted by cops when a cop kills. in these cases, conclusions are written before the investigation starts.

Pacifico - 6-10-2010 at 11:12 AM

A video is worth a thousand words....Hopefully it gets released for all to view. In line with what Bajaboy said.....If I threw rocks at a soldier or a Mexican officer of the law, I would fully expect some bullets to be coming my way.....I'm not saying he deserved to die, but sounds like he wasn't exactly innocent either. It will also be interesting to see if the crime scene was tampered with....

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2010 at 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Gnu--------I spent 30 years as a LE officer (community, State and Federal), and have been retired for almost 15 years-------this is nothing new.

"Proud" is not part of the scenario that I am describing-------I am just stateing facts-------society hires people to enforce their laws, and the people thru their professional representatives define how that is to be done.

Perhaps you can institute change in how that is done, and that is the way it should work------in the mean time, officers will do what they have been trained to do-----how could you expect it to be different? And, do you really think that the officers should be punished for doing what they have been trained to do? If so, I find that untenable.

No body EVER told me that I was to risk my life without defending myself-----in fact just the opposite---------I was told to defend myself, and others, no matter what, and given very specific criteria as to how to do that. To do otherwise puts all in danger.

Barry

the officer had choices when he got into a spat with a KID:
put on a helmet;
walk away from confrontation with KID standing on other side of border;
use non-lethal force (rubber bullets, mace, etc);
shoot to wound; or
shoot to kill.

the pig chose to shoot to kill -- may he rot in h$ll

[Edited on 6-10-2010 by mtgoat666]

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

dennis, you miss the point. there will be no impartial investigation conducted by cops when a cop kills. in these cases, conclusions are written before the investigation starts.

Thanks, Goat. You just made a case for public inquiry....just as I did. If we have enough reason to believe something supported by evidence, how can we be denied.
Where is this video showing Mexican police tampering with a crime scene?
We are the court of public opinion and if we deny ourselves that power, we're traitors to our own cause.

k-rico - 6-10-2010 at 11:20 AM

While what really happened is extremely important what also is extremely important is now millions of Mexicans look at this as an Amercian cop killing a 15 year old boy for throwing stones. That on top of the grandstanding by the AZ state government on the extremely complicated immigration issue and the US has significantly added to the number of people worldwide that despise America. And these new haters of America are our neighbors. The cops should have moved out of stone throwing range, what, 50 feet? :rolleyes:

Yes, I know a lot of you could care less and some even welcome the hate.

[Edited on 6-10-2010 by k-rico]

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2010 at 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

there can be no public inquiry. the cops will burn the evidence before they give it to the public. to keep cops honest, citizens need to take their own video and post the atrocities online for all to see. but the standard cop excuse in suc cases is "but the videos does not show what happened at beginning..."

i have never heard a top cop apologize for the actions of a bad cop. never happens. they just blame the victim.

like i said, NEVER trust a cop.

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 11:25 AM

Goat---------yes, I have 4 kids. And I taught them to NEVER even argue with a cop, let alone resist--------none of them have EVER been in serious trouble with the cops, tho they certainly are not shy, or tame. :lol:

The rest of your points are so outlandish to me that it is better than I don't comment on them.

----and Dennis, you are right, and I understand.

Barry

tripledigitken - 6-10-2010 at 11:33 AM

Goat,

In your own words, "you're an idiot".

Ken

gnukid - 6-10-2010 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
While what really happened is extremely important what also is extremely important is now millions of Mexicans look at this as an Amercian cop killing a 15 year old boy for throwing stones. That on top of the grandstanding by the AZ state government on the extremely complicated immigration issue and the US has significantly added to the number of people worldwide that despise America. And these new haters of America are our neighbors.

Yes, I know a lot of you could care less.

A broad sense of compassion is the appropriate response to the loss of life of yet another victim.

And the acknowledgment that we are being played like pawns in a game where death, racism and division is the only practical result.

Most people to fail to acknowledge that Government lies repeatedly, Police lie, Military lie and we are not getting the facts from anyone here nor will we ever it seems. Most of you have no idea what the real roles are that being played out here, theirs or yours and as suggested most don't care.

We really do not have much time left here to get together, before complete collapse into worse chaos than we have now, perhaps 1 year or 2 or 3. There will be many lost and sacrificed in the process until you stand together.

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

Gnu--------In my 30 years in law enforcement, at all levels, I have NEVER witnessed any of the allegations you are making here----NEVER!!!! Are their some very isolated cases? sure, but they are NOT rampant, and certainly not part of some "plan" as you probably know------

I am not sure what your intent is here, but you appear sincere-------it is puzzleing to me, to say the least.

We tend to believe what we see, and I simply have not seen any of it, and I certainly would have, if it existed. I was even a member of a Nation Wide "strike" LE team for about 3 years, and no examples of what you claim did I observe.

Barry

Woooosh - 6-10-2010 at 11:54 AM

Am I the only one who thinks the biggest contributing factor here is the lack of a physical border? The cops can walk back and forth 20 feet through the mud water to plant/remove evidence in each other's country? No wonder the cottage industry human-smuggling operation developed- taking in the police, and the boys who distract the US authorities. It's our fault for not having a border. Why do we make it so easy?

And on the border fence thing- personally I'd give up a few hundred square miles of southern USA real estate to build the physical border fence at the closest and most cost effective location. Build around the mountains and on the other side of rivers if you have to but get it done. JMHO though.

DianaT - 6-10-2010 at 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
It is morally reprehensible and immoral to use lethal force on a rock thrower, because the outcome is predetermined!!!

YES

[Edited on 6-11-2010 by DianaT]

We Care !

MrBillM - 6-10-2010 at 12:07 PM

I'd venture that K-y is wrong when he said that a lot of people could care less.

MOST, if not all, CARE. We differ in WHAT we care about. In this instance, I CARE that the incident could result in a Wrong-Headed policy CHANGE that would discourage the legitimate response to these continued assaults with DEADLY PROJECTILES of which there have been 799 logged in the last Eight Months in the Border corridor. IF it should become the case that those behind these assaults KNOW that they have no deadly force response to worry about, the incidents will increase with the inevitable injury and death to Law Enforcement officers, ANY of whom are worth more than those attacking them.

Like others, I'm not too concerned over Jesse's scenario where Drunk and Disorderly Gringos are shot. That "might" be a case of "Who Cares" ? We'll still have an over-abundance of them. Besides, are there really that many who are throwing Rocks at Mexican authorities ? NOW, that is DUMB ! Their elimination would certainly improve the Gene pool.

As far as Tonearent and his supposition, if I were wagering, I'd bet that the Video doesn't support it since the Border Patrol has seen it and is campaigning for the FBI to release it as support of their position.

AND, it will be eventually released.

k-rico - 6-10-2010 at 12:07 PM

Cell phone video, apologies if previously posted.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/06/10/texas.border.patrol.sho...

JESSE - 6-10-2010 at 12:11 PM

That was murder, he wasn't surrounded, the kid was across the canal and clearly far away. :mad:

This guy was just angry and killed the boy.

Opinions and Excrement

MrBillM - 6-10-2010 at 12:26 PM

Are often amazingly similar. And, of similar value.

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
, he wasn't surrounded, the kid was across the canal and clearly far away. :mad:

This guy was just angry and killed the boy.

I don't know what he was thinking, but he clearly was not surrounded.

Where is the intl. line in the video? Down the center or where?

[Edited on 6-10-2010 by DENNIS]

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 12:32 PM

Wow, I am impressed that you guys can tell what happened by that video---------I sure can't.

Barry

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Wow, I am impressed that you guys can tell what happened by that video---------I sure can't.

Barry

Barry...After seeing the vid, is there any way it could be thought that he was surrounded? We can account for the whereabouts of everybody in it.

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 12:42 PM

OK, I have watched the video 6 times now (having real problems downloading it)--------and I still don't have a clue what happened, or even who was shot--------good thing I am not on the "panal of inquiry". :rolleyes:

I am not sure what the "surrounded" issue has to do with the shooting------did the BP claim they were surrounded?

I need to go back and review this thread again, I guess.

Barry

Timo1 - 6-10-2010 at 12:52 PM

Just watched it on CNN
not good for US relations at all
no one was surrounded
The BP guy had one and didn't want the other to get away

So he shot the kid

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timo1
Just watched it on CNN
not good for US relations at all
no one was surrounded
The BP guy had one and didn't want the other to get away

So he shot the kid

What I picked up on was the BP guy did have one down, and was being pelted by rocks from youths on the Mexico side ----he then apparently shot at the youths trying to drive them away??

So what is the problem here-------the BP agent was being assaulted
and he took defensive action--------I might have done the same (despite what Jesse feels).

The only reference I saw to him claiming he was "surrounded" was by a NOMAD, and have no idea where that info actually came from.

There apparently are other videos--------that hopefully will be better videos than the one I just watched (6 times) from a previous post which is highly inconclusive to me.

I am not alarmed yet---------we will see.

Barry

Timo1 - 6-10-2010 at 01:05 PM

A shot in the air or something along those lines would kinda deter a 15 year old from throwing another rock

Dontcha think ??

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timo1
A shot in the air or something along those lines would kinda deter a 15 year old from throwing another rock

Dontcha think ??

No!!!!!!! It is totally against police policy to "shoot in the air" especially within a city (you have no idea where those bullets will go). When you shoot, you shoot to kill, period.

This may be ruled as unjustified------I have no idea, as I WAS NOT THERE, but we will just have to wait and see what the investigating team comes up with------do you have a better solution??

Barry

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
The only reference I saw to him claiming he was "surrounded" was by a NOMAD, and have no idea where that info actually came from.

That was reported on the San Diego evening news. Don't know where else.

JESSE - 6-10-2010 at 01:14 PM

The BP agent claimed he was surrounded by rock trowing illegals, he lied about that, the video clearly shows he wasn't.

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The BP agent claimed he was surrounded by rock trowing illegals, he lied about that, the video clearly shows he wasn't.

The video does NOT show that rocks were not thrown although it clearly shows he wasn't surrounded.

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The BP agent claimed he was surrounded by rock trowing illegals, he lied about that, the video clearly shows he wasn't.

-----he "lied about that"????? If you were being pelted by rocks, and you were below all the surrounding terraign, you just might think you "were surrounded", wouldn't you? (tho I have not personally seen that claim, but will except Dennis's word)

Man, you guys are sure ready to throw the BP Agent under the bus---------you definitely would NOT be selected for the Jury, thank goodness. :rolleyes:

Barry

JESSE - 6-10-2010 at 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The BP agent claimed he was surrounded by rock trowing illegals, he lied about that, the video clearly shows he wasn't.

Barry

BP agent said he was surrounded, video shows he is not, if you want to go ahead and get OJ simpson excuses, thats fine. But to me after seeing that video, he murdered that kid.

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The BP agent claimed he was surrounded by rock trowing illegals, he lied about that, the video clearly shows he wasn't.

Barry

BP agent said he was surrounded, video shows he is not, if you want to go ahead and get OJ simpson excuses, thats fine. But to me after seeing that video, he murdered that kid.

----sounds like a Lynch mob is forming--------vigilante action!!!
Is it still 1860 in La Paz????

Barry

toneart - 6-10-2010 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
As far as Tonearent and his supposition, if I were wagering, I'd bet that the Video doesn't support it since the Border Patrol has seen it and is campaigning for the FBI to release it as support of their position.

This is not my supposition. Look up the word alleged in the dictionary. I took the statement from the original article. If you had quoted more of that paragraph you would have properly represented my objectivity: "Even if the allegations prove false, it is still wrong."

toneart - 6-10-2010 at 02:18 PM

This story is a classic bibical parable: Remember David and Goliath?
Whatever happened to the endearing American value/virtue that roots for the underdog?

What has happened to our humanity? What is seeming to emerge is a mainstream fascistic, fear based neo-conservatism. :?:

Well, if that is what you want, that's Democracy. The majority gets what it wants. You get to have murderers hiding behind badges and lethal weapons. Wow! Do I feel safe! :no:

JESSE - 6-10-2010 at 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The BP agent claimed he was surrounded by rock trowing illegals, he lied about that, the video clearly shows he wasn't.

Barry

BP agent said he was surrounded, video shows he is not, if you want to go ahead and get OJ simpson excuses, thats fine. But to me after seeing that video, he murdered that kid.

----sounds like a Lynch mob is forming--------vigilante action!!!
Is it still 1860 in La Paz????

Barry

Plenty of things wrong in this nation, but fortunately, our cops with all of our problems, don't go around killing kids that trow rocks. Anyways, enough said on my part here, with this video, the agents original testimony, i am pretty confident the law will do whats fair.

Dave - 6-10-2010 at 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
with this video, the agents original testimony, i am pretty confident the law will do whats fair.

And I'm just as confident that even if the agent were justified in shooting he's gonna get thrown under the bus. By public opinion, the media, and the government.

Any bets?

Cypress - 6-10-2010 at 02:47 PM

The use of "deadly force" with tragic results. :no:

Was it necessary? My prediction? The border guard will be sacrificed for political purposes. :no:

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
The use of "deadly force" with tragic results. :no:

Was it necessary? My prediction? The border guard will be sacrificed for political purposes. :no:

------and law enforcement along the border, and probably elsewhere, takes a step back and the country will reap the results-----------that is not my idea of progress, but like ToneArt says, that is democracy in action.

Heaven help us. Glad I am not "out there" anymore, and probably some of you say "thank God". :lol:

Barry

Bajaboy - 6-10-2010 at 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
The use of "deadly force" with tragic results. :no:

Was it necessary? My prediction? The border guard will be sacrificed for political purposes. :no:

Barry

Barry, I'm with you on this subject. I give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt. They put their lives on the line each day they go to work. Too many here are unrealistic about the dangers our men and ladies face.

I'll wait for the evidence to determine if the officer was at fault and not jump to any quick judgment calls like so many have already done.

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
The use of "deadly force" with tragic results. :no:

Was it necessary? My prediction? The border guard will be sacrificed for political purposes. :no:

What really wasn't necessary are these burroes throwing rocks at LE officers-------that is really dumb! They are called "criminals", no matter what any of you say or think-----criminals will reap what they sow when they blatantly break the law------I guarantee it. And that applies to rogue LE officers, also.

I wonder what the "folks" would have said if the BP agent had just grabbed the down suspect by the hair and just split for the safety of the North dragging him along---------surely unnecessary roughness, or Police brutality--------he is in a no-win situation, no matter what he does------you don't just leave a captured suspect if you can help it----that is NOT doing your job.

We will see.

Barry

wessongroup - 6-10-2010 at 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
with this video, the agents original testimony, i am pretty confident the law will do whats fair.

And I'm just as confident that even if the agent were justified in shooting he's gonna get thrown under the bus. By public opinion, the media, and the government.

Any bets?

None here... Ditto's...

Cypress - 6-10-2010 at 04:10 PM

Just predicting the outcome. Don't really know for certain the circumstances leading up to the shooting and neither does anyone else posting here.

Bajahowodd - 6-10-2010 at 04:42 PM

Given the level of activity along the border, it's a wonder that something like this doesn't happen more frequently. However, I do think that our national mindset has developed to a point where such incidences are likely to occur more frequently. Let's maybe just take a step back and take a deep breath. That border has been there for hundreds of years and has been breached for hundreds of years. There has merely been an ebb and flow of attitudes. Right now, given the economic times, virtually any activity can be construed as incendiary.

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2010 at 05:21 PM

Barry,
you still defending the border patrol murder of child?
defending the murderer makes you an accessory!

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 05:22 PM

What a bunch of crap this is, from the outset. The area is a war zone...not a playground. These kids mothers should teach them not to play in the middle of the road.
There are children everywhere and some have guns.
Screw this over-reactive pistolero for his trigger happy response to a situation which he barged into and screw all you Mexicans who think you have a right to tempt these men as they do their job.
You are all wrong.

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2010 at 05:28 PM

does BP mean border patrol or british petroleum?

who do you trust more? i think british petroleum hires smarter people, and border patrol has very low hiring standards

wessongroup - 6-10-2010 at 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Just predicting the outcome. Don't really know for certain the circumstances leading up to the shooting and neither does anyone else posting here.

just saw a video, which was from the BP..... and it does show what happened... some of kids were coming through a hole in the fence, the officer from BP grabs two of the boys.. one by the hair, the other is staying down on the ground as instructed... then the boy who is shot runs away to the officers right.. the officer pulls his weapon, and appears to be trying to get control of the situation, but, then points to his right and toward Mexico and fires a couple shots.. and then pauses, and then fires a few more.. the boy is then show laying by the bridge support, with an individual walking toward the river bank from the Mexican side... there are now other BP agents with a vehicle on site ... on the American side of the river..

I will let it grind through the process and let those who have the responsibility to make the call, do that....

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2010 at 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Just predicting the outcome. Don't really know for certain the circumstances leading up to the shooting and neither does anyone else posting here.

just saw a video, which was from the BP.....

do you trust video by BP? i trust inependant video. BP, like any govt agencies, doctors facts, video, pictures, data, etc., to change reality.

Coincidence or Conspiracy ?

MrBillM - 6-10-2010 at 05:54 PM

BP poisons Gulf of Mexico.

BP Agent Kills kid in Mexico.

Is there a pattern here ? An Israeli Plot hatched by International Bankers in concert with Halliburton and Blackwater after meeting with George Bush on his Texas Ranch ?

Kidding, of course. Maybe.

BTW, while Goats "may" prefer inependant Videos, I've always thought them contrived.

[Edited on 6-11-2010 by MrBillM]

noproblemo2 - 6-10-2010 at 05:57 PM

No matter what the outcome, the child is dead, the agent will be gone, and the tensions between both sides will remain high. Just think of what the reverse situation would be, most likely the same emotions ... It is still very sad for all involved.

On the Udder Hand .........

MrBillM - 6-10-2010 at 06:05 PM

Just wondering, But ? ?

IF the Dead Kid WAS involved in Felonious activity then, before and (likely to be) in the future, isn't it better that he's been stopped BEFORE said activities resulted in actual Innocents being injured or killed ?

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

do you trust video by BP? i trust inependant video. BP, like any govt agencies, doctors facts, video, pictures, data, etc., to change reality.

Fresh video is video. Do you think they ran it through Hollywood?

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2010 at 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
BP poisons Gulf of Mexico.

BP Agent Kills kid in Mexico.

Is there a pattern here ? An Israeli Plot hatched by International Bankers in concert with Halliburton and Blackwater after meeting with George Bush on his Texas Ranch ?

Kidding, of course. Maybe.

BTW, while Goats "may" prefer inependant Videos, I've always thought them contrived.

[Edited on 6-11-2010 by MrBillM]

did you lern yur gud spelling in LA publiic schuuls? or did yu lern it at KKK summer camp?

noproblemo2 - 6-10-2010 at 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Just wondering, But ? ?

IF the Dead Kid WAS involved in Felonious activity then, before and (likely to be) in the future, isn't it better that he's been stopped BEFORE said activities resulted in actual Innocents being injured or killed ?

That is like saying IF you are drinking to much "should you be stopped before the liver damage starts

JESSE - 6-10-2010 at 06:13 PM

Quote:

Thats one of he most id***** things i have read here in aa very long time.

noproblemo2 - 6-10-2010 at 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Thats one of he most id***** things i have read here in aa very long time.

Jesse, I could not agree more!!!!!!!!!!!

Stay Tuned.

MrBillM - 6-10-2010 at 06:25 PM

I'm sure I can top it.

Learn something new everyday. KKK has Summer Camps ? And, Goats KNOW this how ? I've never seen that covered anywhere. It doesn't seem like it would be a very good recruiting tool sitting around a Burning Cross Down South in Summertime Mississippi, Alabama or the like. It might keep those Sparrow-Sized Mosquitoes away though.

What I have seen of those Klan guys is that their spelling probably more closely resembles that of the Goat's than mine. Their breeding with relatives (and Goats ?) probably doesn't lead to Intellectual excellence.

[Edited on 6-11-2010 by MrBillM]

toneart - 6-10-2010 at 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
What a bunch of crap this is, from the outset. The area is a war zone...not a playground. These kids mothers should teach them not to play in the middle of the road.
There are children everywhere and some have guns.
Screw this over-reactive pistolero for his trigger happy response to a situation which he barged into and screw all you Mexicans who think you have a right to tempt these men as they do their job.
You are all wrong.

Thank you, Dennis. Your responses have been responsible. For sure, both sides are culpable. We can only hope that this can stand as an isolated event and that the tension defuses. We all stand to lose if it escalates further.

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 07:41 PM

Well, I watched the enhanced video on FOX NEWS tonight, and with my DVR was able to run it over and over again-----and from what I saw the shooting was justified, and my wife agrees. This BP Agent is a 10 year veteran and it is said is a good man-----there was at least one guy within 20 feet of the Agent with a large brick-size rock in his hand and he was posturing like he intended to use it.

If it was me-------BANG !!! It is a "him or me" situation, from what I see. That's my "responsible" critique of that video, coupled with comments from those interviewed. I am sure there is more to come.

Barry

chnlisle - 6-10-2010 at 07:46 PM

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
--there was at least one guy within 20 feet of the Agent with a large brick-size rock in his hand and he was posturing like he intended to use it.

Thanks, Barry. I haven't seen what you refer to, but Ill find it.

I wonder why he didn't fire on that guy? Guess you gotta be there.

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 07:59 PM

Hey chinsilse................
Your illistration shows nada.
Are you trying to make a point?

DENNIS - 6-10-2010 at 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
We can only hope that this can stand as an isolated event and that the tension defuses. We all stand to lose if it escalates further.

Let it begin. I will fight for the respect I deserve.

Barry A. - 6-10-2010 at 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
--there was at least one guy within 20 feet of the Agent with a large brick-size rock in his hand and he was posturing like he intended to use it.

Thanks, Barry. I haven't seen what you refer to, but Ill find it.

I wonder why he didn't fire on that guy? Guess you gotta be there.

I saw it on the O'RIELLY FACTOR show, which is on again at 8pm PDT, I believe near the end of the show.

Barry

SiReNiTa - 6-10-2010 at 08:53 PM

"But if you only have love for your own race
Then you only leave space to discriminate
And to discriminate only generates hate
And when you hate then you're bound to get irate,
Badness is what you demonstrate
And that's exactly how anger works and operates
you gotta have love just to set it straight
Take control of your mind and meditate
Let your soul gravitate to the love,

People killin', people dyin'
Children hurt and you hear them cryin'
Can you practice what you preach
And would you turn the other cheek

Father, Father, Father help us
Send us some guidance from above
'Cause people got me, got me questionin'

Where is the love?

It just ain't the same, always unchanged
New days are strange, is the world insane
If love and peace is so strong
Why are there pieces of love that don't belong
Nations droppin' bombs
Chemical gasses fillin' lungs of little ones
With the ongoin' sufferin' as the youth die young
So ask yourself is the lovin' really gone
So I could ask myself really what is goin' wrong
In this world that we livin' in people keep on givin'
in
Makin' wrong decisions, only visions of them dividends
Not respectin' each other, deny thy brother
A war is goin' on but the reason's undercover
The truth is kept secret, it's swept under the rug
If you never know truth then you never know love
Where's the love?"
~Song by Black Eyed Peas-Where is the love?~

Am I angry? Of course!
But what good does it do me to be angry at the person who pulled the trigger, since I don't know what was going through his mind at that moment.
It's not upon us to judge other people, although sometimes we take it upon ourselves.
My prayers go out to the mother of the child and to the man who killed him, because I'm sure he is having trouble sleeping at night, whether by self defense or pure cruelty, killing a child is not something I expect anyone to take lightly, even by someone who has cold blood.

dtbushpilot - 6-10-2010 at 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiReNiTa
"But if you only have love for your own race
Then you only leave space to discriminate
And to discriminate only generates hate
And when you hate then you're bound to get irate,
Badness is what you demonstrate
And that's exactly how anger works and operates
you gotta have love just to set it straight
Take control of your mind and meditate
Let your soul gravitate to the love,

People killin', people dyin'
Children hurt and you hear them cryin'
Can you practice what you preach
And would you turn the other cheek

Father, Father, Father help us
Send us some guidance from above
'Cause people got me, got me questionin'

Where is the love?

It just ain't the same, always unchanged
New days are strange, is the world insane
If love and peace is so strong
Why are there pieces of love that don't belong
Nations droppin' bombs
Chemical gasses fillin' lungs of little ones
With the ongoin' sufferin' as the youth die young
So ask yourself is the lovin' really gone
So I could ask myself really what is goin' wrong
In this world that we livin' in people keep on givin'
in
Makin' wrong decisions, only visions of them dividends
Not respectin' each other, deny thy brother
A war is goin' on but the reason's undercover
The truth is kept secret, it's swept under the rug
If you never know truth then you never know love
Where's the love?"
~Song by Black Eyed Peas-Where is the love?~

Am I angry? Of course!
But what good does it do me to be angry at the person who pulled the trigger, since I don't know what was going through his mind at that moment.
It's not upon us to judge other people, although sometimes we take it upon ourselves.
My prayers go out to the mother of the child and to the man who killed him, because I'm sure he is having trouble sleeping at night, whether by self defense or pure cruelty, killing a child is not something I expect anyone to take lightly, even by someone who has cold blood.

"from the mouths of babes".....thank you for your thoughts serina, sometimes people get so caught up in their outrage that they can't see the human side....dt

BajaBlanca - 6-10-2010 at 09:01 PM

very, very sad story all around .....

Sure wish those kids had been doing something better - like riding bikes in La Bocana

Cypress - 6-11-2010 at 05:50 AM

Rocks today, guns tomorrow. What in the heck are these kids doing throwing rocks at the US border patrol? Why won't the Mexican officials control 'em? Too bad. Nothing good is gonna come of this whole situation. For every SiReNiTA there's a hundred like the kid that was killed.

Cypress - 6-11-2010 at 07:12 AM

Oh yea, Racism, that's the answer. A white offender is given a pat on the back and a group hug. The brown, black, yellow, or red offender is shot or beaten. :biggrin:

Liberal dogma. :barf:

Barry A. - 6-11-2010 at 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Oh yea, Racism, that's the answer. A white offender is given a pat on the back and a group hug. The brown, black, yellow, or red offender is shot or beaten. :biggrin:

Liberal dogma. :barf:

There are always sociopaths around in every profession------they should be prosecuted and jailed, cops included. But to brand a profession by a few bad apples is just as bad, it seems to me.

Barry

Bajajorge - 6-11-2010 at 07:38 AM

I wasn't there to witness the incident, so I can't make an intelligent comment. Comment, yes, Intelligent Comment, No.

mtgoat666 - 6-11-2010 at 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

I saw it on the O'RIELLY FACTOR show, which is on again at 8pm PDT, I believe near the end of the show.

Barry

that figures. you call that hack fair and balanced?

DENNIS - 6-11-2010 at 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chnlisle

Well, first of all Mexicans are not a race, they are a nationality, just as Americans are a nationality.

Right on. The birth of a new term....NATIONALITIST.
Good timing 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing that warn out, watered down term...RACIST. It doesn't mean anything anymore.

BajaBlanca - 6-11-2010 at 10:36 AM

Mexican TV is really playing up the human side of the issue .... the funeral today was very emotional with the sister hysterical.....a kid is a kid.

maybe the law should be changed - shoot to deter. not to kill.

Cypress - 6-11-2010 at 10:36 AM

If anyones to be blamed it's the officials on both sides who are condoning the border violations. :no:

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