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astrobaja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 952
Registered: 5-22-2006
Location: near San Pedro Martir Park
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Mood: beam me up
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teen shot by border patrol
Not specifically Baja but related due to incident at the TJ border. Nobodys talking about this one? I saw it on yahoo.com Theres talk now the kid
did'nt even throw rocks.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100609/ap_on_re_us/us_border_pa...
After the report in the comments area there are 1000's of to me blatently racist and ugly xenophobic sentiments displayed. Some are openly
celebratory over the teens death! VERY sad!
[Edited on 6-9-2010 by astrobaja]
\"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.There is another theory which states that this has already happened\"
Douglas Adams
our website: http://bajadarkskies.com |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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"A U.S. official close to the investigation told the AP that authorities have a video showing that the Border Patrol agent did not cross into Mexico.
In fact, the official said, the video shows what appear to be members of Mexican law enforcement crossing onto the U.S. side, picking something up and
returning to Mexico. The official was not cleared to speak about the video and spoke only on condition of anonymity."
Let's see the vid. You can't believe anything anyone says.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Law Enforcement considers a "rock" a deadly weapon, and appropriate defensive action, including deadly force, is appropriate if the officer believed
that his, or somebody else was in danger of being injured or killed.
Lets let the investigation play out. There is normally more to every story than the press indicates.
Barry
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Law Enforcement considers a "rock" a deadly weapon, and appropriate defensive action, including deadly force, is appropriate if the officer believed
that his, or somebody else was in danger of being injured or killed.
Lets let the investigation play out. There is normally more to every story than the press indicates.
Barry |
no kidding- look at these new details/allegations...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-06-09-mexican-border...
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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really bad.. really ....
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by astrobaja
Not specifically Baja but related due to incident at the TJ border. Nobodys talking about this one? I saw it on yahoo.com Theres talk now the kid
did'nt even throw rocks.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100609/ap_on_re_us/us_border_pa...
After the report in the comments area there are 1000's of to me blatently racist and ugly xenophobic sentiments displayed. Some are openly
celebratory over the teens death! VERY sad!
[Edited on 6-9-2010 by astrobaja] |
So what do you think would happen if you decided to throw rocks at the soldiers at a Baja checkpoint?
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Rocks are a lethal weapon. Countries still have death by stoning after all. It's too bad this 15 year old boy was so misdirected as to be throwing
them in the first place. What's up with that? ... an after-school workshop or something? Too bad kids have to live in the violence and get pulled
into it- happens in all third world countries.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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It is alleged that our officers crossed over into Mexico and shot the kid in his own country. This makes it an illegal, international atrocity. Even
if the allegations prove false, it is still wrong. How do you think the Mexican authorities will regard us? Violence begets violence. It makes us more
vulnerable while traveling or living in Mexico. You know the resentment already seethes in their souls. Hard feelings can escalate pretty quickly.
Regardless of how the investigation plays out (just who is going to do the investigation?  ) , you have heard my opinion on this subject before. Here it is again:"Law Enforcement considers a "rock" a deadly weapon." While
it is possible that a rock could kill someone, it is more likely that a person hit by a rock would survive with minor injuries. A thrown rock is no
match for the firepower of rifles, especially by trained law enforcement personnel!!! A rifle is lethal. That is the intent. It is morally
reprehensible and immoral to use lethal force on a rock thrower, because the outcome is predetermined!!! When law enforcement, with the backing of
a belligerent government policy around the world, including being used against our neighbors just across our own borders makes such a stand it is
dead wrong! The law is not an absolute when it is wrong. Question authority. Resist. Protest.
Furthermore, the practice is chicken s**t and you who practice and condone it are also the same. Shame on you!
Ok, well I did some name-calling which violates my code, but in this case it separates me from your atrocities, and I stand proud of that. I totally
disavow your atrocities. I stand in solidarity with the Mexican People!
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
It is alleged that our officers crossed over into Mexico and shot the kid in his own country. This makes it an illegal, international atrocity. Even
if the allegations prove false, it is still wrong. How do you think the Mexican authorities will regard us? Violence begets violence. It makes us more
vulnerable while traveling or living in Mexico. You know the resentment already seethes in their souls. Hard feelings can escalate pretty quickly.
Regardless of how the investigation plays out (just who is going to do the investigation? ) , you have heard my opinion on this subject before. Here it is again:"Law Enforcement considers a "rock" a deadly weapon." While
it is possible that a rock could kill someone, it is more likely that a person hit by a rock would survive with minor injuries. A thrown rock is no
match for the firepower of rifles, especially by trained law enforcement personnel!!! A rifle is lethal. That is the intent. It is morally
reprehensible and immoral to use lethal force on a rock thrower, because the outcome is predetermined!!! When law enforcement, with the backing of
a belligerent government policy around the world, including being used against our neighbors just across our own borders makes such a stand it is
dead wrong! The law is not an absolute when it is wrong. Question authority. Resist. Protest.
Furthermore, the practice is chicken s**t and you who practice and condone it are also the same. Shame on you!
Ok, well I did some name-calling which violates my code, but in this case it separates me from your atrocities, and I stand proud of that. I totally
disavow your atrocities. I stand in solidarity with the Mexican People! |
It's all Bush's fault..............
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Tony---------then change the law!!!! In the meantime, 10's of thousands of Police Officers will continue to be trained to treat "rock throwing" as a
lethal (sp?) threat.
I, for one, would NOT want to be a LE officer if I was not able to defend myself--------THAT would be insane!!! and I cannot believe that ANY
thinking and careing person would expect another person to take on that type of risk.
Barry
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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I understand that officers need to protect themselves, but what happened to a good old fashion arrest? i remember a similar incident in San Diego many
years back. A man that had mental problems that was very well known to the Ocean Beach community was killed by officer simply because the guy refused
arrest and waved a stick at them. The whole community was angry at the police for a long time.
I understand many will see this as legitimate defence, but to me, this is no way of dealing with a 14yr old kid, no matter what.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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A child throws a rock, A Cop shoots to kill.
Congratulations to Barry and all the others who feel proud, smug and secure about this, while it's a sad illustration of the out of control and
unaccountable police state.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Yeah...
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
it's a sad illustration of the out of control and unaccountable police state. |
I know what you mean. It's getting out of control. We're now starting to hear about this stuff happening every six hours, or so.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Sign me On ..............
To the list of those who "Condone" the use of Deadly force by authorities in response to being attacked with Deadly Weapons, including ROCKS.
I'm more than willing to be considered Badly by Toneart and his band of Louts. Considering the source, it's something of an honor.
As they say:
"Sticks and STONES WILL break your Bones", but Liberal words are nothing but Crap".
Or, something like that.
BTW, there was late news today regarding the deceased's prior record. It will be interesting to see what truth there is to that.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Gnu--------I spent 30 years as a LE officer (community, State and Federal), and have been retired for almost 15 years-------this is nothing new.
"Proud" is not part of the scenario that I am describing-------I am just stateing facts-------society hires people to enforce their laws, and the
people thru their professional representatives define how that is to be done.
Perhaps you can institute change in how that is done, and that is the way it should work------in the mean time, officers will do what they have been
trained to do-----how could you expect it to be different? And, do you really think that the officers should be punished for doing what they have
been trained to do? If so, I find that untenable.
No body EVER told me that I was to risk my life without defending myself-----in fact just the opposite---------I was told to defend myself, and
others, no matter what, and given very specific criteria as to how to do that. To do otherwise puts all in danger.
Barry
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Barry you are not the enemy, but you are talking out the side of your mouth. I understand you have a lifelong commitment to defend another officer, so
you can not consider taking a rational position, consider the facts, the circumstances, alternatives. You are not the issue nor am I.
No one, anywhere, by any means, can support the shooting of a Child who threw a rock, by someone charged with maintaining peace and order.
Let's consider the issues:
The officer has no injuries
The Child is dead
The officer shot at a Child across an International Border
The Child was shot at close range with a 40 caliber weapon
The officer was under no requirement to pursue the Child
The officer had no legal means or justification to pursue the Child across the border
The officer put our National Interests at risks and must be aware of the weight of discharging his weapon in this case
The officer's needless actions put not only the people around him at risk but now as put two nations at risk
More than likely, this was no accident, this was a planned response to an expected circumstance as all police and military actions are. There is a
reason for institutional police violence. The simple question is what is the reason, A) to bring peace to the border, B) to bring violence to the
border, C) to cause International escalation toward increased Military and Police control.
Barry, please stop defending the indefensible.
[Edited on 6-10-2010 by gnukid]
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Pants on fire
Either...
His mother said he was a good student who never got in trouble. He was the youngest of five children, played on two soccer teams and had just finished
junior high school, she said.
Or...
Huereka was charged with alien smuggling in 2009, according to sources who requested anonymity. Further details were not immediately available.
"He is a known juvenile smuggler," a source told Fox News. He was also on a "most wanted" list of juvenile smugglers compiled by U.S. authorities in
the El Paso area, sources said.
Someone's lying.
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chnlisle
Banned
Posts: 40
Registered: 4-26-2006
Location: Ramona, CA
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When the dust clears on the investigation into the killing to the child in Juarez, the following facts will be disclosed, which will be verified by
the video and reliable witnesses:
1. The child was not 14, he was 15 and the size of an adult. He could throw a rock hard enough to kill a human being.
2. The local polleros pay the children to throw rocks at the CBP to distract them while the polleros sneak their customers into the US at another
location. These very same polleros pay off the local police to let them operate in the area and these cops get a piece of the action.
3. The CBP agent who shot the child was seperated from his team and was alone when he had captured an illegal immigrant and had him pinned on the
ground on the US side.
4. The children surrounded the CBP agent and were throwing rocks at him to get him to chase after them so the illegal he had on the ground could
scurry back into Mexico, which was only 20 feet away.
5. The CBP agent fired from his position in the US to get all the children to stop throwing rocks at him.
6. Four federales showed up almost immediately, (surprise, surpise) illegally crossed the Rio Grande into the US, picked up the .40 calibre spent
cartridge fired by the CBP agent and walked back to the Mexican side and placed the cartridge near the body of the child.
7. The polleros, federales and children were all working in concert.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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How many police officers have been killed by rocks?
none in almost seven decades
http://www.slate.com/id/2256457/
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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If Mexican police used the same "guidelines" for using deadly force against drunken american teens, there would be plenty of tourist kids killed every
year.
But its just a Mexican boy, who now seems to be a big time wanted drug smuggler
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