Ball Joints, tie rod ends, Best brands ?

Ok. MN makes a base level part, and their Extreme series. Base level is natural finish, black boot. Their Extreme series are anodized, beefier construction, blue dust boots. Not all parts are available in Extreme. Moog has base level, and their Problem Solver series. PS series parts are again, stronger, prettier, poly style boots in some cases. I do believe Moog is a seperate manufacturing co. NAPA Gold and MN Extreme are identical. I used only TRW at my shop for years. They sold the chassis division in the late 80's and the quality went downhill. I switched to Moog, paid more, but the quality was great. Moog prices went even higher, so I started using MN around 2000. Now MN's quality is poor, most NAPA, Spicer, AC Delco, MN are "offshore products". Read that as Chinese. They look cheap, the zerk holes are off-center, usually untapped, missing castle nuts, boots, zerks, cotter pins, ect. The reboxing issue is frustrating, as two identical boxes yield completely different looking parts many times. I now inspect every part as it is delivered. It sucks!!! Lost time for me costs me mucho dinero. Glad I'm selling the shop and running away to Baja. Springs. Use the Moog springs, specify HD w/ac. A heavier than stock spring rate. Also Dodge vans remained unchanged for many years. In the 70's you could get a van with a 440 ci engine. Much heavier. See if the springs will interchange. If a 1975 smallblock spring matches your spring, a 1975 bigblock spring will work. Another tip, use the KYB Mono-Max shocks and poly swaybar bushings and endlink kits. 7 on a Sunday morning and I feel like I am working! LOL Oh, all this free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it!!!

HA, I love my customers. Just don't love their cars anymore. After 35 years of turning wrenches for a living, I've lost several square feet of skin, an inch or two at a time. Even broke my own nose, and KO'd myself twice. Just pure luck, marrying the doctor. I kept her busy, now she is in La Paz, so I've assumed the first aid duties again.

I guess I am going to have to goto all the AP stores in my area and inspect the parts myself. This reboxing phenomena is BS!

The springs I have now are 22 year old 7270's, at least the diameter is the same.

SPRING#//BAR DIA//INSTALL HEIGHT///LOAD///SPRING RATE//
==========================================================
7270--------.812----------11.25---------------2264--------855
7272--------.875----------11.25---------------2659--------965
---------------------------------------------------------------
7226--------.906----------13.13---------------1725--------1114
7226s-------.906----------13.12---------------2224--------1113


My springs install between lower control arm and frame.



I would like some more ground clearance without using coil spring spacers.

Once again, your expertise and opinions are much appreciated.

Trust me, a new pair of HD springs with a set of the KYB's will be great! You will run into alignment issues if you raise the front to far above stock height. Not enough camber adjustment range, and still have positive caster. Free height and installed height are two different things. Spring rate at installed height goes up drastically as you compress a longer sring into a shorter installed height than it was designed for. I've been doing this for decades, and I still think it is a crapshoot at times. I have learned that a little is better than to much!

Landyacht, I'll pull out my dog-eared Moog spring book at work tomorrow. You need to look by application for a spring that fits your van. If that 7272 is listed for your van, it should work. It will lift the van some, and by spring rate it will take an extra 110 pounds of force, per spring, to compress it every inch of travel. Slight lift, slightly stiffer. If it lifts it too far, trim half a coil and check it. One nice thing, the Dodge springs just fall out compared to most other vehicles. I have several compressors, and they can all hurt you if something slips. Been chased around the shop by more than one spring!

Off Road Element

Bass, I'm very interested to hear more specifics about the mods to your Element. I officially Baja tested mine for the first time last month on the Gonzaga Bay road towing a Bajabug. It made it back in one piece. I was impressed.


here's the rig at Punta Bufeo

[Edited on 7-27-2010 by El Camote]

I went to Napa, Pepboys, Kragen, and Autozone, and made them pull out the ball joints and tie rod ends.

None had any Moog in stock, so I did not get a basis for visual comparison.

Napa did have their Premium Ball joint in stock. It was obviously a much higher quality part than what I was showed in every other store. The prices they quoted me were more than what was listed online with some mumbo jumbo reason as to why.

Of all the cheap brands, the Autozone duralast looked the best, but what can I really tell without much experience in the matter. The boots on some were so loose on the studs it was a joke. As Bajabass said, some had off center zerk fittings, some of them were unthreaded.

The ones at Pep boys looked like they were heat treated by some Asian tweeker with a bottle of Mapp gass, they were all discolored. Unevenly, and the surfaces did not feel smooth, or round for that matter.

I've taken a chance and Ordered the XRF ball joints and tie rod ends. The prices were very good, and they have a supposed million mile warranty.




The Moog 7272 HD springs are on their way along with the Moog problem solver control arm bushings, and Moog coil spring isolators from Rockauto.

You can get coupon codes online and save an additional 5%.

I will report when parts arrive, how they install, and how they feel. Thanks for the input!

thanks for the update.. still laughing on the "Asian tweeker" .. good one.. and most likely spot on...

The 2 9/64 ball joint socket

All the parts have arrived.

Autozone on the phone claimed to have the special 2 9/64 ball joint socket for the upper threaded ball joint, and 5 days later
when I went to get it they hadn't a clue to what I was talking about. Every permutation of part number, nothing.
No Autoparts, tool stores in all of San Diego know anything about this mysterious Ball joint socket.

Makes me wonder what would happen SOB.
I have had one suggestion to just press them out, that the BJ threads would strip, not the control arm threads. I'm leery of doing that.

So I tried with my limited fabrication skills to make a BJ socket, but it failed to loosen the BJ,
and bent before I even busted out the big breaker bar.

SO I had to order one online. 46 dollars with shipping. Cost more than the part it is designed to remove/ install.

Anyway here's a photo of the XRF Ball joints.
They seem to be very nicely made. They initially sent the wrong part, but 2 day shipped the right part.


A close up of the XRF Tie Rod End.

[IMG]http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss15/wrcsixeight/XRFpolishedballstud.jpg?t=1281081196[/IMG]

There are actually 2 different sizes of BJ sockets. A smaller one for passenger cars, and the larger for trucks/vans. You will always be able to find lower prices online for parts. A lot less overhead.
Last Friday, I fired my chassis supplier. For the last time, I was sent mis-matched, poorly constructed parts. I was rebuilding a Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 front end. 3 of 4 BJ's, and 3 of 4 tie rod ends with zerks, 1 each, none. I lost 3 hours waiting for them to round up matching parts. My sales rep showed up, I went beserk, told him to get these POS parts out of here, and I'll never order chassis parts from them again. So far this week, I've spent over 1k with someone else for front end parts. I'll show him the invoices for lost sales because of their crappolla parts. I'll see if that makes my point!
El Camote, the only things I've done to my wife's Element are 4 Yokohama Geolander HT/S tires, a pair of KYB rear shocks, and a Yakima roof rack set-up. 16k on the stock Goodyear Wrangler HP tires, and they were shot. Baja destroys wimpy tires. Even with her car packed like a Conastoga wagon, she said the handling was great on the drive to La Paz, and the tires work very well on the dirt roads in El Centenario.

Thanks bass. Just ordered a pair of the GR-2 for the rear online. $64 ea. no shipping or tax. Is there any reason to be replacing the fronts as well? It has 76K miles on it.

Sorry about your parts supplier problems. Nothing more frustrating than the wrong part.

At 12.5 to 1, that is about 20-25% above the retail price here. Fair deal, good parts. Go for it! If you can get them up here, save $. Just don't make a special trip!
I replaced the rears on the Element because 1 trip to La Paz, a dozen to Ensenada/La Mision, and the L/R was blown. At 76k you are ready for fronts as well. These online prices are 1 reason I'm selling my shop. Customers, well some, expect me to match them, and I'm already broke!

Tie Rod End comparison

Since XRF said they hoped to have the right hand threaded TRE's in stock in "a month or 2", I told the Tireclub to mail the Mcquay Norris TRE's instead. They were the same price.

They are not the MN Global which are the Chinese equivalent, Nor the MN extreme(Napa gold), but the Mid grade, made in USA part.

They arrived today, and I got to inspect them closely.
You have seen my previous post of the polished ball stud on the XRF above.

The Mcquay Norris part is not made the same way. It appears to have a stud within a ball, within the Housing. It takes about 50% more effort to move the stud by hand than the XRF, and when it does move it feels a little crusty. The XRF is buttery smooth. The MN ball seems a little bigger in the housing than the XRF, but XRF claims almost twice the pull out strength of the competition.

The threads on the MN part are not very smooth, with a couple visible dings. The castle nut cannot be threaded to full depth by hand. The XRF part came with a netting over the threads to protect them.

Here are some comparison photos XRF on the left.




Now I have all the parts, and the time to work on it, and am waiting on the damn BJ socket to arrive. Effing Autozone.

The TireClub did not give me the sticker to mail back the incorrect k7205t ball joints that were sent in the k7025t boxes. They fit 1994 to 1996 Dodge 2500 or 3500 Pick ups. I'm wondering if I get to keep them.

Got everything disassembled, rust treated, and back together.

Ready for some washboard, though the new firmer springs are sure to add a new element to that.
The McQuay Norris TRE's were not threaded for the Zerks. I really wish they had the XRF TRE's available as the quality difference is apparent.

Time for an alignment.

Thanks for the input.