BajaNomad

Tourists shot and robbed in both TJ and Rosarito Beach this week.

Woooosh - 11-3-2010 at 07:10 PM

I'm not sure how we got to this point- armed robberies where they actually shoot the victims? Geeesh. The penalty for armed robbery was upped a few years ago to prevent this. What's changed? Why not rob people with any of the more traditional, less violent methods? I do understand why they would target tourists- because "That's where the money is." But why actually shoot?

Two American tourists shot and robbed, three days apart. Man robbed and shot in Rosarito Beach - while sitting in his truck waiting for a friend who was shopping inside. The second was a couple shot and robbed on the Mexico Bridge while walking back to the border from the tourist zone at 1am.

http://www.afntijuana.info/afn/?p=17207
http://www.afntijuana.info/afn/?p=17323

BajaBlanca - 11-3-2010 at 07:13 PM

very sad indeed. but i would never walk anywhere at 1 a.m.

even san diego is not 100% safe at that time ....

still and all, a sad week.

Mexicorn - 11-3-2010 at 07:27 PM

I dont doubt what your saying Whoosh but no one knows anything about the tourist shooting in Ro sa rito. I know alot of people up there and no ones confirmed it with me.
As you know us Americans that live down here are a close knit group.

krafty - 11-3-2010 at 07:29 PM

let me get this straight-A guy was shot from the air in Rosarito? His friend was buying bread? there was May 5 inserted-can someone essplain this to moi?

Mexicorn - 11-3-2010 at 07:37 PM

Who in their right mind would be crossing that pedestrian bridge at 1 AM?

Hello anyone Its 1am I'll save a few bucks and walk.

Woooosh - 11-3-2010 at 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Who in their right mind would be crossing that pedestrian bridge at 1 AM?

Hello anyone Its 1am I'll save a few bucks and walk.

I think a lot of younger people still stumble/crawl back across that bridge late at night. The perps went over into the canal. Not sure I'd trust a street cab- but I would walk in a bigger group than two for sure. It does sound strange a tourist would be buying bread in Rosarito, maybe he was hungry and doesn't like tortillas. That'll teach us guys to sit in the car waiting- easy targets.

Dave - 11-3-2010 at 09:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Who in their right mind would be crossing that pedestrian bridge at 1 AM?


I wouldn't walk across that bridge alone at 1PM. :rolleyes:

Tbone - 11-4-2010 at 08:05 AM

I think Mexican bread is the best, bar none. Bring on the Tortas. Not worth taking a bullet for, but close.

Woooosh - 11-4-2010 at 09:47 AM

I wonder what the two college students shot and killed last night were shopping for?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/11/03/mexico.us.students.killed/index.html?eref=rss_world&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm _campaign=Feed:+rss/cnn_world+(RSS:+World)&utm_content=My+Yahoo

BajaBlanca - 11-4-2010 at 10:21 AM

computer and business majors ??? walking around in ciudad juarez ... not so smart. very sad.

Phil S - 11-4-2010 at 11:25 AM

Soiunds to me they both missed the "common sense" class when it was held????

JoeJustJoe - 11-4-2010 at 11:40 AM

http://www.afntijuana.info/afn/?p=17323

This first story is kinda strange and it brings up a lot of questions although it's tragic to hear about an American women getting shot in the back.

But what were two lone American females doing at one o' clock in the morning walking on that dark deserted bridge late at night?

I use to walk that bridge all the time, but never past nightfall when it get deserted and at the time the only people you use to see were the homeless bums, rateros and corrupt TJ cops were on the bridge waiting for their victims.( Now I just take the cheaper taxi libres than the more expensive yellow cabs)

Ok the two American women are confronted by one of the robbers with a gun pointed at them, and the others are asking for their wallets. But instead of handing over the wallets and complying with the Mexican muggers requests the two American women try to make a run for it.

I understand they are frightened but is this the smartest thing to do is try to escape three armed Mexican gunman? It just seems the two American women are doing one dumb thing after another which could have deadly consequences and in this case it resulted in one of them getting shot in the back.

Now I wasn't there and in this case there might have been good reason to run because who knows what else the Mexican rateros might have did to the women after they robbed them.

Two American women alone on a dark isolated bridge walking back to the states. There has to be more to this story than this, and I doubt these two were just casual tourists returning to the states, although no matter what these two American women were involved in it never gives the Mexican rateros an excuse to rob and shoot one of them.

But many times you see stories like this where the victim contributes to their own demise, because if you ask me "Social Darwinism" is alive and well in Tijuana and you have to use your brain at all times.
---------------------------------

There was another incident in Rosarito Beach reported in the "Frontera" where a 70 year old American women was confronted by Mexican bandits with a gun by a ATM machine, and the 70 year old women refused to give them her purse!

This incident ended better this time with the robbers just taking the purse from the old women, and I don't think she was hurt.

Again if confronted by robbers with a gun. Do what they want because money and valuables could always be replaced but if they kill you....that's it your dead, unless you believe in the afterlife.



[Edited on 11-4-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

BajaBlanca - 11-4-2010 at 11:57 AM

you know, I was held up at gunpoint when I did a stupid 1 a.m. stunt like these women and I handed over my whole purse - the guys argued with me that they only wanted the wallet and made me fish it out. :o

the second time I was help up was on a bus, I never saw the gun (it was there tho'). and that time my reaction was so different. i refused to give up my wedding band ... argued with the kid ... who eventually robbed other people with the rest of his gang. Once they were off the bus, I got told off bigtime by the other riders .... but it was my gut reaction to react this way. :fire:

maybe they thought they were going to be raped and their flight mode came on instead of fight. It is a scary world and the bottom line is: how dumb. since we don't know their ages, it may be teenage "this will never happen to me" youth stupidity.

Joe Just Joe has the right idea and it should be drummed into our brains. give it up. it can be replaced. no matter what the sum. no matter what the item. life cannot be replaced.

Woooosh - 11-5-2010 at 09:10 AM

Good points Blanca. We shouldn't victimize these two ladies for believing what the media is telling them though- that TJ is safe for tourism. They were walking the main pedestrian route for tourists going from the border to the Ave Revolution nightlife. If the TJ police can't manage to post at least one unit there to protect that route it's pretty much game over for tourism. Well, not really- this story broke on election day results and never got much attention. Another win for the media censors, but not a win for tourist safety.

BajaGringo - 11-5-2010 at 09:19 AM

Our family in Tijuana tells us they are seeing a harder element coming back to Mexico among the more recent deportees. I have noticed my last few trips up to the border that I am seeing a lot more ex-con looking types with prison tattoos walking around.

Times are definitely changing and I would bet that these types of stories are directly connected...



[Edited on 11-5-2010 by BajaGringo]

DENNIS - 11-5-2010 at 09:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Our family in Tijuana tells us they are seeing a harder element coming back to Mexico among the more recent deportees. I have noticed my last few trips up to the border that I am seeing a lot more ex-con looking types with prison tattoos walking around.






Down here as well. Lots of them living in and working for the subsidized re-hab houses, panhandling [for the cause, of course] at the intersections.
Makes you wonder what their night-job may be in light of the recent massacres of cartel soldiers in rehab places where they hide between jobs.

bajamedic - 11-5-2010 at 10:08 AM

I will apologize for my opinion before giving it… ok I’m sorry.

It sure looks like that gun control thing is working well… for the bad guys. :fire:JH

DENNIS - 11-5-2010 at 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajamedic

It sure looks like that gun control thing is working well… for the bad guys. :fire:JH



The only people without guns here are the gringos....most of them anyway. Not all.

Cypress - 11-5-2010 at 11:01 AM

If guns are illegal, the only people with guns are criminals and law enforcement. I've got guns. I'm not a criminal. But I would be if guns were illegal. There's something wrong with that picture.:o

JoeJustJoe - 11-5-2010 at 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Good points Blanca. We shouldn't victimize these two ladies for believing what the media is telling them though- that TJ is safe for tourism. They were walking the main pedestrian route for tourists going from the border to the Ave Revolution nightlife. If the TJ police can't manage to post at least one unit there to protect that route it's pretty much game over for tourism. Well, not really- this story broke on election day results and never got much attention. Another win for the media censors, but not a win for tourist safety.


Blanca made a great post from a females perspective, however Whoosh's posts leaves a lot to be desired.

That pedestrian bridge is usually quite busy and pretty safe during the day, but at night it's very dangerous and just about all local Mexicans and even visiting gringos know it's not a good idea to cross at night especially for women walking alone.

The river bed has a good size homeless population just like I remember many riverbeds in the States that had a sizable homeless population living under the bridges and the riverbeds. (when I was a kid I use to play under my local riverbed, and I use to run into bums under there, but I think back them they were referred to as hobos.

Today most American women working nights won't even walk to their cars alone out of fear they will be raped or mugged in large companies that have large parking lots, and most large companies have security guards that upon request will walk American women workers to their car, or they walk with other work members.

The question remains what were those two American women thinking when they decided to walk the bridge alone at night when just about nobody else is crossing at that time of night?

There are a lot of places on that bridge where you could get mugged, and the TJ police can't be everywhere nor would I expect the police force to provide a lot of security at that time of night because most sane people would not be crossing at that hour at night.

What these two American women did was equivalent to Woooosh walking alone at night in some of the worst areas of Compton California and then get mugged, and shot because he didn't give the muggers his wallet, but afterward wonders what happened because he heard Compton/LA was safe.

The fact is Tijuana is very safe, and the Tijuana police force is all over the city making it as safe as other large cities, but all bets are off if in engage in illegal actives or do stupid these like these two American women did. But who knows maybe they ran out of money, or there boyfriends dumped them in TJ without money, and they had no other choice but walking home.

I talked to a Arturo Martinez, Deputy Director of the State Secretary of Tourism board on another matter by email, and Arturo told me there are definitely a few areas of Tijuana that a tourist should avoid, and I bet he would agree with me that the pedestrian bridge in Tijuana late at night is an area one should avoid in order to be safe?


[Edited on 11-5-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

Woooosh - 11-5-2010 at 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Good points Blanca. We shouldn't victimize these two ladies for believing what the media is telling them though- that TJ is safe for tourism. They were walking the main pedestrian route for tourists going from the border to the Ave Revolution nightlife. If the TJ police can't manage to post at least one unit there to protect that route it's pretty much game over for tourism. Well, not really- this story broke on election day results and never got much attention. Another win for the media censors, but not a win for tourist safety.


Blanca made a great post from a females perspective, however Whoosh's posts leaves a lot to be desired.

That pedestrian bridge is usually quite busy and pretty safe during the day, but at night it's very dangerous and just about all local Mexicans and even visiting gringos know it's not a good idea to cross at night especially for women walking alone.

The river bed has a good size homeless population just like I remember many riverbeds in the States that had a sizable homeless population living under the bridges and the riverbeds. (when I was a kid I use to play under my local riverbed, and I use to run into bums under there, but I think back them they were referred to as hobos.

Today most American women working nights won't even walk to their cars alone out of fear they will be raped or mugged in large companies that have large parking lots, and most large companies have security guards that upon request will walk American women workers to their car, or they walk with other work members.

The question remains what were those two American women thinking when they decided to walk the bridge alone at night when just about nobody else is crossing at that time of night?

There are a lot of places on that bridge where you could get mugged, and the TJ police can't be everywhere nor would I expect the police force to provide a lot of security at that time of night because most sane people would not be crossing at that hour at night.

What these two American women did was equivalent to Woooosh walking alone at night in some of the worst areas of Compton California and then get mugged, and shot because he didn't give the muggers his wallet, but afterward wonders what happened because he heard Compton/LA was safe.

The fact is Tijuana is very safe, and the Tijuana police force is all over the city making it as safe as other large cities, but all bets are off if in engage in illegal actives or do stupid these like these two American women did. But who knows maybe they ran out of money, or there boyfriends dumped them in TJ without money, and they had no other choice but walking home.

I talked to a Arturo Martinez, Deputy Director of the State Secretary of Tourism board on another matter by email, and Arturo told me there are definitely a few areas of Tijuana that a tourist should avoid, and I bet he would agree with me that the pedestrian bridge in Tijuana late at night is an area one should avoid in order to be safe?


[Edited on 11-5-2010 by JoeJustJoe]



"a lot to be desired". Desired by whom? Mocking the victims isn't anything new on this board. I haven't seen much PR for late night tourism in Compton (and I don't even know where that is exactly) unlike TJ where bar owners are still fighting for later operating hours and running nightly specials geared towards the college kids who are encouraged to park on the US side and walk across. If it's not safe let them know. If these ladies were out an about town- why didn't a club doorman give them a heads-up or a waiter hail them a safe cab? I do agree they should not have been walking in a group of only two people and stated that in my first post.

Tourist info: "Getting Back to San Diego from Tijuana. To get back to the border from Avenida Revolucion on foot, just look for the big arch. Walk to it, turn right, go over the bridge and through the small shopping plaza."

http://www.tijuanagringo.org/turinfo/tuwabo1.htm

flyfishinPam - 11-5-2010 at 02:36 PM

I am glad someone else brought this up.

I hate this attitude like these victims deserved it. When IS a good time to cross that bridge, or be stuck in traffic waiting to cross? if 1am is too late how about midnight or is that too late too? what about 9pm? we just read an article of eating in TJ do they mention these restrictions? and what the h- is wrong with waiting for a friend to buy bread? maybe his friend was buying those little pig cookies. we are being programmed to behave in a certain way because of fear! this sucks my days of crossing that late are behind me but it sure was fun! too bad the younger ones won't be able to enjoy it relatively safely like many of us could.

JoeJustJoe - 11-5-2010 at 03:38 PM

"a lot to be desired". Desired by whom? Mocking the victims isn't anything new on this board. I haven't seen much PR for late night tourism in Compton (and I don't even know where that is exactly) unlike TJ where bar owners are still fighting for later operating hours and running nightly specials geared towards the college kids who are encouraged to park on the US side and walk across. If it's not safe let them know. If these ladies were out an about town- why didn't a club doorman give them a heads-up or a waiter hail them a safe cab? I do agree they should not have been walking in a group of only two people and stated that in my first post.

Tourist info: "Getting Back to San Diego from Tijuana. To get back to the border from Avenida Revolucion on foot, just look for the big arch. Walk to it, turn right, go over the bridge and through the small shopping plaza."

http://www.tijuanagringo.org/turinfo/tuwabo1.htm
-------------------------------------
The problem I have with Wooosh's post is that he seems to be siding with the "alarmist" type blogger and haters in places like "SignsOnSanDiego" comment section that use incidents like this to scare the living daylights out of anybody considering traveling to Tijuana or even to Mexican resorts like Acapulco that are still extremely safe for American tourists despite the big kidnapping incident and a few cartel related killings.

Wooosh when did the media tell these two Americans girls that Tijuana is so safe that they should walk the pedestrian bridge alone at night pass midnight where the homeless, and ratero population rests at night? ( you don't see these bums and criminals during the day)

I have a teenage/young adult Daughter that is of the partying age, and I have no problem if she wanted to visit Baja California with her friends, and she use to sometimes go with her brother( my son) whose friends parents owned property in Baja and they stayed over night and went bar hoping in Rosarito Beach often as my son went to college in the San Diego area.

But do you think I'm going to tell my daughter to walk a dark deserted bridge with her friends late at night? I'm sure most teens or young adults especially girls know you don't put yourself in that position ever! ( that Tijuana blog directions were a joke, and it confused me although I made that walk many times. I doubt people even read blogs like that?)

This incident was an aberration. No normal girl(s) would make the same mistakes these two American did. I would think most normal girls of that age would be afraid of being raped in any place like that bridge or dark parking lots in the states.( I bet those two girls were in an altered state of conscious, because what they did was crazy)

Who knows maybe the San Diego papers will cover this incident, but they are under no obligation to cover every incident of this type. Just like the US media doesn't over every story where a Mexican was killed even when it involved hate crimes. ( the Tribune is a conservative paper. They love bashing Mexico. So I don't know about this news blackout conspiracy I often hear about)

Maybe I misinterpreted your thoughts Wooosh? But I would really like your opinion. Do you believe that Tijuana and the Baja is relative safe enough for American tourist? Or should they follow the advice of the "alarmists" and just stay home and hang out at the local "El Torito" an upscale Southland Mexican bar/restaurant and club after hours in order to get that Mexican feel?

If you ask me the Media has already done a great job scaring the US natives on the dangers of Mexico, and any more stories are just over kill.

My message to the alarmists is you can cower under the blankets and fear Mexico all you want, but that's not going to keep me from visiting, and from the tourist numbers showing tourism increasing from the US to Mexico. I doubt too many people are listening to the alarmists either)

wessongroup - 11-5-2010 at 03:46 PM

Reporting news is not alarmist ..... if one choose to perceive it that way... so be it..

Find is strange when anyone brings up and event which may give a negative coloring to Baja, it seems to be either rejected out of hand.. told that it happens everywhere, ratings of another City with higher rates of homicide of what ever.. or one is classified as an alarmist ....

I appreciate all news, which is fact based and will make my own mind up on where and when I go ...

The rest is speculation .....

[Edited on 11-5-2010 by wessongroup]

DENNIS - 11-5-2010 at 03:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Reporting news is not alarmist ..... if one choose to perceive it that way... so be it..

Find is strange when anyone bring up and event which may give a negative coloring to Baja, it seems to be either rejected out of hand.. told that it happens everywhere, ratings of another City with higher rates of homicide of what ever.. or one is classified as an alarmist ....

I appreciate all news, which is fact based and will make my own mind up on where and when I go ...

The rest is speculation .....



Muy well stated, Wiley. Screw people who can't handle the proven truth.

Walking home

tripledigitken - 11-5-2010 at 03:58 PM

Joejustjoe,

Point of reference for you. I travel to Baja numerous times each year. Now that I have retired it will surely increase. Just want to establish that fact.

You and others say it's just crazy to walk over that bridge from downtown late at night, right?

Didn't use to be. As a teenager friday nights were special when I reached eighteen, that meant we could go to TJ. We would park on the US side and walk across, have a fun night, then walk back across. I don't recall any victims of crime or warnings not to cross. This was before the safe zone, by the way. Many didn't think a thing about driving the toll road at night, yet many won't do it anymore.

The fact is that things have changed for the worse and are continuing to degrade. You can choose to ignore that and try to explain it away, blame the victims. By the way, many here have blamed the victims recently.

Baja has felt little of the crime so far. Read any news, not just the US version. The atrocities throughout Mexico are growing and will no doubt spill over to Baja. I don't think that is being an alarmist, or "drama queening" as some have said.

Ken

[Edited on 11-5-2010 by tripledigitken]

JoeJustJoe - 11-5-2010 at 05:49 PM

Wessongroup wrote: Reporting news is not alarmist ..... if one choose to perceive it that way... so be it..
---------------------

I agree with that reporting the news isn't "alarmist" but if that's all you do is report negative news, and not only that but if you're a regional newspaper or blog and that's all you do is report cartels killings and other violence from every place in Mexico to make it seems like a certain area is a war zone.

Then I'm going to wonder what's your real agenda? Is your life goal really to warn Americans of the danger of Mexico because the US media is engaged in a news conspiracy cover-up. I'm going to wonder if perhaps you had a bad business deal in Mexico or a Mexican girl or guy rejected you and you are going to take it out on Mexico.

Imagine if I started a news blog on San Diego, but that I not only cover the crime in San Diego but I also covered and included violent crime in the rest of America and places like Brooklyn and Detroit. What if I put all those news reports together. Couldn't I made San Diego look like a war zone?

It's no wonder the Mayor of Tijuana and others are upset over the bias coverage of Baja California making it seem like a war zone, and taking stories like this one with the American girl getting shot in the back, and making it like Whooosh does that she was a casual American tourist unaware of the dangers of Tijuana because of a news blackout from the San Diego news outlets.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
tripledigitken: Didn't use to be. As a teenager friday nights were special when I reached eighteen, that meant we could go to TJ. We would park on the US side and walk across, have a fun night, then walk back across. I don't recall any victims of crime or warnings not to cross. This was before the safe zone, by the way. Many didn't think a thing about driving the toll road at night, yet many won't do it anymore.
------------------
Tripledigitken Which decade and century are we talking about when you were a teen walking over the the clubs on Tijuana, and then walked back home safely. ( did you know any single young girls that did that even years ago?)

The fact is living in the US and Mexico have become more dangerous than ever and there are few places in the US even Mayberry, NC where I doubt even Aunt Bee would leave her doors unlocked at night.

I would like to hear from other women on this forum to come to this thread and tell me what these two American women did was normal behavior to walk a dark isolated bridge late at night, and I'm not just talking Tijuana, but I'm talking any urban city in the USA too.

Like it or not these two American women contributed to their own demise and they should have been a little smarter, although there is no excuse that one of them got shot in the back by Mexican thugs.

Woooosh - 11-5-2010 at 07:40 PM

Hey Joe. Short answer to your question is- imho the security situation for Baja Norte is unpredictable at best and no former rules or expectations should apply. It's almost a wild west or Mafia type atmosphere here between the rival cartels. All levels of authority are complicit in some way to some one or group- because it pays very well and is the only way most of these civil servants would ever see great personal wealth. Their war is their war protecting their drugs and money, but that while that war goes on the tourist based economy and the society both suffer. It's only less safe for tourists if they become a targeted group- and I don't think that's the case. That doesn't mean it should go unreported though.

wessongroup - 11-5-2010 at 09:25 PM

Joe, the operative word in your report... "if" ...... my statement is not conditioned on a preposition .. It is not hypothetical as is your argument(s) and/or example(s) and/or open ended question(s)

Walter Conkite reported news.. as have others.. that some are not able to discern between fact and fiction is not the point being made... rather, that some choose to respond to a specific type of news in a certain fashion ... and my post dealt with what a specific single individual posted on "a single news report"

Stay on point.. think the post was about a reported criminal activity in the State of Baja in the City of Tijuana.. at a specific location, with a specific time, and date ..... would guess there is a police report filed also.

The rest is generalized speculation and interpretation on your part...

There is an old one "if your aunt had balls, she would be your uncle" Joe/Josephine

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 11-6-2010 at 12:44 AM

Wessongroup wrote: I appreciate all news, which is fact based and will make my own mind up on where and when I go ...

The rest is speculation .....

Walter Conkite reported news.. as have others.. that some are not able to discern between fact and fiction is not the point being made... rather, that some choose to respond to a specific type of news in a certain fashion ... and my post dealt with what a specific single individual posted on "a single news report"
_____________________________

What are you smoking Wessongroup? Saying you want to hear the facts, and acting like Walter Conkite just reported the news.

If Walter Conkite was still alive and on CBS he would be considered a leftist propagandist by the right. Wessongroup do you even consider "Fox News" a real news outlet, and do you think they just report the news? Fox news is a total joke and I doubt I believe one story out of 10 despite the fact there are supposedly reporting the facts.

The news is manipulated all the time, and news is bias as all hell. If the SDUT ran scary stories about cartel violence in TJ every day they could probably make most of their readers believe there is a real war going on in the streets of TJ and they better not go there unless they have a tank.

The corporate media news makes it seem like Hugo Chavez is the worst villain in the world, but I often ask myself why is that all the bad guys seem to only come from oil rich nations. You think maybe we are being manipulated at least a little about Hugo Chavez and other bad guys? How are we going to really know if the corporate media all seem to be on the same page?

I really don't know where you are going with your post Wessongroup? And the 'Nomad" humor put-downs I'm still trying to understand. They seem a little silly and juvenile to me.

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

wessongroup - 11-6-2010 at 08:58 AM

Joe, inability to stay on point makes for good rambling ... but that is about it...

That you don't understand a simple factual statement, is not surprising to me.. and the linkage to my first post with my second is not valid, as my second post focused on a totally different point than the first...

My first post stands on its own...

"Reporting news is not alarmist ..... if one choose to perceive it that way... so be it..

Find is strange when anyone brings up and event which may give a negative coloring to Baja, it seems to be either rejected out of hand.. told that it happens everywhere, ratings of another City with higher rates of homicide of what ever.. or one is classified as an alarmist ....

I appreciate all news, which is fact based and will make my own mind up on where and when I go ...

The rest is speculation ....."

My second post focused on your response to my first post and that it (your post) was conditioned with the magical word "if"...

"Joe, the operative word in your report... "if" ...... my statement is not conditioned on a preposition .. It is not hypothetical as is your argument(s) and/or example(s) and/or open ended question(s)"

Lets see... will give you an example of how your "if" will work...... "If I were superman", I will remove all damns so we have fresh run salmon again, I will install solar.. on the roofs of all homes.. and will develop and new fuel for the world... plus we will no longer have hunger in the world...

As for what I'm smoking.. Cohiba Churchill's .... great with my coffee in the morning.. or in the evening ... just by themselves....

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 11-6-2010 at 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Hey Joe. Short answer to your question is- imho the security situation for Baja Norte is unpredictable at best and no former rules or expectations should apply. It's almost a wild west or Mafia type atmosphere here between the rival cartels. All levels of authority are complicit in some way to some one or group- because it pays very well and is the only way most of these civil servants would ever see great personal wealth. Their war is their war protecting their drugs and money, but that while that war goes on the tourist based economy and the society both suffer. It's only less safe for tourists if they become a targeted group- and I don't think that's the case. That doesn't mean it should go unreported though.


I guess I could accept your short answer Whooosh. At least I can understand it and it wasn't a weird answer like I sometimes read around here.

I could also go along with your statement that Tijuana" It's only less safe for tourists if they become a targeted group- and I don't think that's the case." I agree I don't think the tourist or even the local population is targeted yet.

However, I believe your "alarmist" friends will be disappointed with your answer Woooosh. Remember the "Alarmists" goals are to keep all Americans from traveling to anywhere in Mexico, and they get very furious if anybody disagrees with them.

I do disagree with a few of points. I wouldn't exactly call Tijuana a tourist based economy. Although tourism is important to most cities. I think Tijuana is more of a business based economy and they want to attract more business to the area and have a growing maquiladora industry.

You call it "their" war. Well it's the USA's war as well. You also hear about the US"war on drugs" and how Mexico isn't doing enough. Yet Americans rarely except for Hillary Clinton who finally acknowledged the Americans citizens insatiable appetite for drugs. Yes many Americans need to dull their senses in order to make it through a day at work and home. The rat race here at home can be tough on some Americans. You rarely here about the lax gun laws in America and how the US arms the Mexican drug cartels assault weapons and arms them indirectly with war type devices like grenades that were left over from the cold war when the US armed a few Central American countries back in the 80's. You can now buy grenades on the black market for a few hundred pesos.

Woooosh accept some of the blame of this "war on drugs" for the USA as there is plenty of blame to go around.

News cover up? Doubtful, this incident alone was only covered by the "AFN" as other news outlets in Mexico didn't consider it news worthy. I doubt the San Diego tribune found it news worthy either, because there wasn't enough information in the story, and they just decided to cover something else.( I did see some stories that I thought the San Diego paper should cover, but I'm not the editor.)




[Edited on 11-6-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

Woooosh - 11-6-2010 at 01:29 PM

Hmmm. I wouldn't live here if I wasn't safe. My definition and comfort level for safety is only mine though- everyone has their own. Safety comes and goes in waves around here. "Safe" and bustling six years ago, scary the three really bad years after that, and then relatively calm again for the past two years. Now a new wave of bad is coming ashore and signs point to things getting worse for everyone again. It's all about the money. Drugs is just the tool they are using to get it. Seventy years ago the tool of choice was alcohol and it made the Kennedy's rich. If the drug tool goes away their new tool will be mass extortions and kidnappings. You can blame the US for the drugs and the US has already taken responsibility for being the enablers to the problem. But that doesn't solve the problem. No one want to fix this problem because then they won't get paid any more. Everyone is in way too deep. A truce will be made to stop the violence and everyone will be happy to get back to the old corrupt system that wasn't good, but wasn't fatal either.

BajaRat - 11-6-2010 at 02:11 PM

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Tijuana has allways been a tough frontier town. I'm sad for the victims and the good folks of Tijuana that have to endure this. Unfortunatly I believe these crimes will become more and more common place.
Lionel

BajaRat - 11-6-2010 at 02:15 PM

Well said Woooosh.

toneart - 11-6-2010 at 02:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Hmmm. I wouldn't live here if I wasn't safe. My definition and comfort level for safety is only mine though- everyone has their own. Safety comes and goes in waves around here. "Safe" and bustling six years ago, scary the three really bad years after that, and then relatively calm again for the past two years. Now a new wave of bad is coming ashore and signs point to things getting worse for everyone again. It's all about the money. Drugs is just the tool they are using to get it. Seventy years ago the tool of choice was alcohol and it made the Kennedy's rich. If the drug tool goes away their new tool will be mass extortions and kidnappings. You can blame the US for the drugs and the US has already taken responsibility for being the enablers to the problem. But that doesn't solve the problem. No one want to fix this problem because then they won't get paid any more. Everyone is in way too deep. A truce will be made to stop the violence and everyone will be happy to get back to the old corrupt system that wasn't good, but wasn't fatal either.


I agree, totally!

Mexicorn - 11-6-2010 at 03:18 PM

Confirmed it yesterday Whoosh. American was shot by a panaderia. North Rosarito on the free road to TJ.

jeans - 11-6-2010 at 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Who in their right mind would be crossing that pedestrian bridge at 1 AM?


I wouldn't walk across that bridge alone at 1PM. :rolleyes:



Well, I walked across..alone..about 5:30pm in the winter, which meant it was dark. There were no lights then (about 15 years ago). There was A LOT of traffic..a sea of people all moving in the dark. It was terrifying.:o
Never again

DENNIS - 11-6-2010 at 03:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jeans
Well, I walked across..alone..about 5:30pm in the winter, which meant it was dark. There were no lights then (about 15 years ago). There was A LOT of traffic..a sea of people all moving in the dark. It was terrifying.:o
Never again


And to think, that part of the world was tame 15 years back relative to today.

Woooosh - 11-6-2010 at 06:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Confirmed it yesterday Whoosh. American was shot by a panaderia. North Rosarito on the free road to TJ.

It is nearly impossible to find out what is happening around here. The Rosarito police stopped putting the daily crime logs on line a few months ago. The police Captain was suspended for a week and almost no one knew about it. No news is just no news though- no one thinks there isn't any crime. We did get the 400-500 expected Trick or Treaters at our door this year, so the kids and families are still trying to act normal when they can.

Anyone else notice the new billboards going up around Rosarito and on the toll road for the incoming government? The guy even put his face on the billboard with a promise of better security and economic prosperity? They look like election ads someone forgot to tear down. I think the narcos will see them as a challenge. I was thinking the gov't transition would be quieter for some reason.

Mexicorn - 11-6-2010 at 07:11 PM

How about that candidate who's sign in English "I'll fight for an exit" Just north of town on the Toll road. Is that weird or what? Who is he trying to appeal to anyways the English speaking Mexicans or the Gringo's who cant vote.
Soy muy confundo?

Dave - 11-6-2010 at 07:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Confirmed it yesterday Whoosh. American was shot by a panaderia.


Who actually pulled the trigger... The Feite, or Puerquito?

Woooosh - 11-6-2010 at 09:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
How about that candidate who's sign in English "I'll fight for an exit" Just north of town on the Toll road. Is that weird or what? Who is he trying to appeal to anyways the English speaking Mexicans or the Gringo's who cant vote.
Soy muy confundo?

I thought he meant a literal on and off "exit" from the toll road for that neighborhood. Right now they have to go miles around to get back on it.

wessongroup - 11-7-2010 at 06:01 AM

Woooosh, really good balanced summary in one paragraph on how things really work ... thanks for the insight....


Joe....

"However, I believe your "alarmist" friends will be disappointed with your answer Woooosh. Remember the "Alarmists" goals are to keep all Americans from traveling to anywhere in Mexico, and they get very furious if anybody disagrees with them."

Furious, oh really.... my, my.. sorry, that I have not seen nor heard of this group of "furious alarmists" in past year I have been living down in Baja...

Most tourism is based on ones ability to spend "MONEY" it's really that simple.. and given the current state of California which is setting at around 20% unemployment, and no help on the horizon for the folks in the 40s, 50s and 60s crowd.... that have been laid off and have lost: their 401K's, retirement, and homes.. and now don't even have unemployment ......

Just a guess, but, don't think many from that crowd are coming back down for vacations and in all likely hood won't be investing and/or buying property either in Baja

Here is a link to a 60 Minute report on same... http://tinyurl.com/2f4dkx3

Phil S - 11-7-2010 at 09:02 AM

Well. That 60 minutes is sure an eye opener!!! San Jose. I lived & worked there what seems like a couple prior lives ago. Lived on Meridian Ave.
Remember driving by the fruit canning plants on the way to work. Had to keep the windows closed to keep from puking from the sweet smells.
I had no idea San Jose was in such a terrible financial crisis. Guess multiply that all over the u.s. Makes me glad that I saved & invested well over the years rather than being frivelous with my spending. My heart certainly reached out to those people. Puts a whole new light on 'charity' at home.

JoeJustJoe - 11-7-2010 at 11:59 AM

Wessongroup wrote: Furious, oh really.... my, my.. sorry, that I have not seen nor heard of this group of "furious alarmists" in past year I have been living down in Baja...

Most tourism is based on ones ability to spend "MONEY" it's really that simple.. and given the current state of California which is setting at around 20% unemployment, and no help on the horizon for the folks in the 40s, 50s and 60s crowd.... that have been laid off and have lost: their 401K's, retirement, and homes.. and now don't even have unemployment ......

Just a guess, but, don't think many from that crowd are coming back down for vacations and in all likely hood won't be investing and/or buying property either in Baja
______________________________________________

Well according to the latest Mexican tourism numbers are way in Mexico:
----------------------------------

In a surprising turnabout, international tourism to Mexico showed a sharp increase this summer — a sign that tourists may be putting aside worries about the economy and fears of drug-related violence, analysts say.

Foreign visitors arriving by air to Mexico jumped to 7.1 million in the first eight months of the year — up nearly 20% from the same period in 2009 — with most visitors coming from the U.S. and Canada, according to Mexican tourism officials.

The biggest rise came in July, when tourist numbers grew 27.5% over the same month last year.

http://banderasnews.com/1010/to-mexicotourism.htm
____________________________________________________

So according to the facts Wessongroup it looks like people are returning to Mexico to vacation especially in the summer where the tourist number grew 27.5 percent.

Wessongroup you never ran into any "Furious Alarmists? You should consider yourself lucky. I often find myself arguing with a few "Furious Alarmists" and then it starts to get personal. You find these types all over and not the ones that just write anti-Mexico blogs. You also see them on forums, and posting on Newspaper comment sections.

On another forum where I often hang out we have these ultra-conservative guys. They can't wait to a negative story to come out like the one above, and then they go on with anti Mexico rants and just spew the hate talk saying things like, "you see, this is what I'm talking about. Mexico is nothing but a violent 3rd world country, and anybody would have to be stupid to visit there and risk getting killed, kidnapped, or ripped off....blah blah blah.......

The reason why you don't see these types in Baja Wessongroup is that they don't even travel to Mexico....they are too scared, although a few of them do live in Mexico.

Check out "SignonSanDiego "Border and Immigration" section and read those comments after the articles. Many times you see nothing but pure hate steeped in "racism" and "supremacist" type comment postings.



[Edited on 11-7-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

Woooosh - 11-7-2010 at 01:40 PM

Tourism grew 27% yet more of our local businesses closed? If it grew 27% anywhere in Mexico it sure wasn't in Baja. The cost of living is almost double that of the mainland and Mexicans here feel like they are getting clobbered. Every digital hotel and motel sign in Rosarito has rooms advertised for 200 pesos or less. They basically can't give Rosarito away right now although they are certainly trying every marketing approach they can think of to get tourist back. It's as safe as it ever was or is ever going to get again for tourism. The risks tourists face here are the same ones everyday Mexicans face when economic times get rough.

Mexicorn - 11-7-2010 at 02:28 PM

Hard to call guys but I am seeing alot of the old faces back after the last few years when many were staying
Away.