BajaNomad

American Military Intervention?

sanquintinsince73 - 12-13-2010 at 01:10 PM

Sedena: red alert over possible U.S. intervention.
Sunday, December 5, 2010 | Borderland Beat Reporter Gerardo


Revista Contralinea
Focos rojos en Sedena ante posible intervención de EU
Autor: Zósimo Camacho


Active duty generals and colonels that occupy operational commands in the Mexican Army express concern over possible U.S. military intervention in Mexico. They are frustrated by the politics of Felipe Calderón, who they see as overly obedient to the Pentagon, and warn that a “scenario” is being constructed that will lead to U.S military intervention in Mexico.

They note that some of the chaos and violence in Mexican cities is induced from outside the country with the consent of the federal government. National security experts agree that conditions are being created to force a "closer cooperation" by the military of both countries.

On June 18th of this year, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), in a report titled “The Globalization of Crime” called drug gangs operating in Mexico “transnational organized crime superpowers”. This fact scarcely merited a line in the inside pages of some print media.

However, officers from the G2 Section of the Mexican Army (in charge of military intelligence work) were filled with gloom. They see the arrival of U.S. troops in the country as imminent, a demand from hardliners in the U.S. Department of Defense. The report was seen as another justification for intervention.

Long accustomed to a code of silence with civilians and unwilling to comment on disagreements within the armed forces, military officers are now expressing their unease to the media. They note that some of the violence that has erupted in recent weeks may have been "instigated." And they accuse the government of Felipe Calderon Hinojosa of preparing the "stage" for an open U.S. intervention.

Military Intelligence officers claim to have information that the car bomb attacks (one in Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, on July 16, and two more in Ciudad Victoria, Tamaulipas, on August 26, 2010) may not be the work of drug gangs. Furthermore, they may not have been perpetrated by Mexicans.

"It is not the modus operandi of the cartels or armed groups with political demands," says one of the divisional officers, seeking his identity be kept private. He adds that in military circles there is concern over the destabilization of the country and the federal government's actions that appear to favor, rather than contain, the insecurity.

The revelations by active duty Army officers to Contralínea reporters serve as a “pressure relief valve” and are a sign of tensions percolating within Mexico’s insular military.

Acccording to Dr. Guillermo Garduño, a specialist in military affairs attached to the Autonomous Metropolitan University and lecturer at the National Defense, the military is desperate because the nation’s civilian leadership "has no idea what the Armed Forces actually are."

Mexico has not created a civilian elite that knows Mexico’s Army, Navy or Air Force in depth.

According to the generals and colonels who requested annonymity, the supposed "strategy" to allow entry of U.S. troops into Mexico with lower social costs would have two components: the intenal, where conditions of degeneration and instability are created so that Mexican society itself demands more "security" regardless of the origin of the "help"; and the external, where other countries consider that the intervention would be "humanitarian" to counter drug cartels that have overwhelmed the Mexican state.

Increasing Pressures

“The Globalization of Crime” study released this year by the UNODC assessed the threat of transnational organized crime, saying the "superpower" of transnational organized crime has generated a new turf war between gangs for territories and trafficking routes, particularly in Mexico. The report also examines how “transnational organized crime and instability amplify each other to create vicious circles in which countries or even subregions may become locked.”

Even before the UNODC report, the United States Armed Forces released in January 2009the now infamous “JOE 2008-Joint Operating Environment: Challenges and Implications for the Future Joint Force” warned that the Mexican government may be unable to maintain stability in the coming years.

“In terms of worst-case scenarios for the Joint Force and indeed the world, two large and important states bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse: Pakistan and Mexico…."

"The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police, and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and pressure by criminal gangs and drug cartels. How that internal conflict turns out over the next several years will have a major impact on the stability of the Mexican state. Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."

U.S. pressures are rising in tone and number as witnessed by confidential U.S. Embassy cables released by WikiLeaks and through statements by leaders such as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and others.

On March 10, 2009, the former director of U.S. National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, said that Mexico did not control its entire territory. By July of that year, the report “Mexico's Narco-Insurgency and U.S. Counterdrug Policy”, released by the Institute for Strategic Studies-U.S. Army War College, argued that Mexico was experiencing "a transition from traditional gangsterism of murderers for hire to a terrorist paramilitary employing guerrilla tactics."

In addition, on November 17th of this year Janet Napolitano, Secretary of Homeland Security, declared that the Mexican Army had failed in its fight against drug trafficking in the border city of Ciudad Juárez.

During the second half of 2010, U.S. authorities and the UN has been increasingly blunt: Mexico is unable to control drug trafficking organizations, and their inefficiency is a threat to security in several regions, including the U.S..

"Everything is falling into place"

Ambassador Henry A. Crumpton, a veteran covert CIA officer who ran the CIA's campaign in Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks and former Coordinator for Counterterrorism at the State Department, acknowledged in an interview with the Wall Street Journal in early September that Mexico has a "narcoinsurgency." Crumpton added this concept is "particularly incendiary" to the Mexicans due to their fear that the U.S. military will sieze control of the fight against drugs.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, on September 8th of this year, sparked anger in Mexico by comparing its drug-related violence to an insurgency.

“This is a really tough challenge. And these drug cartels are now showing more and more indices of insurgency. All of a sudden car bombs show up that weren’t there before. So it’s becoming – it’s looking more and more like Colombia looked 20 years ago where the narco traffickers controlled certain parts of the country,” responded Clinton to a question asked after a speech to the Council of Foreign Affairs.

"Everything is falling into place," says one general interviewed by Contralínea requested his name be kept private. Calling drug trafficking “a superpower” is to regard Mexico's armed forces as insufficient to fight a "global threat." The danger of an intervention is real, he adds.

Indeed, U.S. officials consulted by Wall Street Journal explained that "the Mexican government is growing increasingly open to greater cooperation, because the security situation is getting worse." In remarks published on September 10th of this year, the Mexican ambassador to Washington, Arturo Sarukhan, said "We have encouraged the United States improve and deepen cooperation with Mexico."

Soft intervention

Experts say that since the Mexican Revolution the country has not been on the verge of a U.S. military intervention until now. All agree that the more destabilized the country becomes, the greater the chance that U.S. Marines will "collaborate" in Mexico.

"The intervention is the main theme discussed in intelligence circles in Mexico," said Abelardo Rodriguez Sumano, a researcher at the Center for North American Studies at the University of Guadalajara.

The specialist in national security issues in Mexico and the United States said that the basis for U.S. intervention would be the “void” left by the Mexican authorities.

"There is no consensus in the national security structure in terms of the relationship with the United States. We are disjointed in terms of 'collaboration'. Some sectors, such as the Marina (Mexico’s Marines under Naval command) want it. And others, like the Army, are resisting. And as these disagreements generate strategic gaps, the Americans are going to occupy them. They are sure of what they want for us."

For Dr. Guillermo Garduño, intervention is not an immediate risk, "it's already happening." He adds that the Americans themselves believe their troops are not needed at this point in time.

"It's their war, but as with most of America’s wars throughout its history, it’s being fought outside their territory. They are already here. Already involved, but those that give their lives are Mexicans," he said.

Finally, he concedes, "When the Mexican institutions are exhausted, then the Americans will have to respond directly. It's going to happen."

To Jorge Luis Sierra, a specialist in national security and the armed forces, the concern of the Mexican military to a possible U.S. intervention is not new. The graduate of the Center for Hemispheric Defense Studies at the National Defense University in Washington, DC explains that after the attack on the Twin Towers in New York on September 11, 2001, Mexican military intelligence warned that the U.S. wanted to set up military bases in Mexico.

The warning is reflected in the minutes of a meeting in 2003 on national security attended by elite Mexican Army and Naval staff officers.

For Senator Rene Arce, a member of the Bicameral Commission on National Security, the U.S. has always been involved in Mexican intelligence matters. Arce adds, "Now they (the Mexican armed forces) want to look very patriotic and stand firm, when what has really upset them is being told that they violate human rights, that is the problem. The American military and intelligence people are here, but it's very discreet."

Abelardo Rodriguez points out that for hardliners in the U.S. Defense Department, American Marines should have deployed to Mexico months ago.

"It is historically true that once United States forces are installed in a country, it is very difficult for them to leave," he warns.

motoged - 12-13-2010 at 01:33 PM

It will be interesting to see what surfaces through Wiki Leak info....:o

sancho - 12-13-2010 at 01:51 PM

I don't have the patience to read all that post,
but US Intervention, NO, unless by some chance
the Mex Cartels would do something
to invite that, I understand Calderon has 2 yrs. left
on his 6 yr. one term. Which at that point, as has been
suggested, things returns to 'normal' in Mex,
that is the Mex Govt backs off the Cartels Business ventures.
The US culture of drug use, for
whatever reason that developed, creates a demand
for drugs and Mex fills that need, whether by their
Country being used as a corridor or production itself.
Not to mention most/all guns are sent to Mex from
the US. I have yet to see any success in the Drug Wars
in Mex are here in the US

Hook - 12-13-2010 at 04:18 PM

This seems more like a justification for a military coup by generals than a reason for a US invasion.

motoged - 12-13-2010 at 04:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sancho
I don't have the patience to read all that post, but .......blah blah


That's classic !!!! "I don't know what you said and don't care....BUT here's what I think" !!!:lol::lol::lol:

Bajahowodd - 12-13-2010 at 05:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
This seems more like a justification for a military coup by generals than a reason for a US invasion.


I'm with you on that thought. Zero chance of US invasion of Mexico short of major provocation. Of course, if these idiots want to start taking pointers out of the Al Qaeda playbook, and start car bombing NOB.... But why would they?

Zero chance that the current government of Mexico will invite us for anything but an advisory role.

Woooosh - 12-13-2010 at 05:33 PM

The WikiLeak cables tell a very different story. US diplomats say Mexico is asking for the US help it is getting, in fact it already depends on US Military intelligence to be effective. The Mexican military brass is sacred to death of learning anything, being made to cooperate with other Mexican military departments, or being organized by anyone. They like it the way it is- compartmentalized, closed, possessive of their intel, inherently corrupt and systemically ineffective. If these military guys are scared of the US Military, they really won't like what their Latin American neighbors have planned for them.

The US military is the most powerful and best-trained military power on Earth. If Mexican generals are afraid, it is only because they will be the laughing stock of the world once their full weakness are aired (as in the WikiLeaks). jmho

These are the conspiracy theories that have quickly been formed as result of the Dec 2 WikiLeaks which show the sad state of the Mexican military. I really don't think the average Mexican sees the USA as a demon any more. They all have friends/relatives NOB who send back money and live good lives. All they want is public safety and their economy restored so they can live in peace. They know Mexico is broken and would rather have help from the North, than the dictators to the south for sure.

sanquintinsince73 - 12-13-2010 at 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
This seems more like a justification for a military coup by generals than a reason for a US invasion.

Exactly what I was thinking. Especially if these Generals are making their opinions/fears public.

DENNIS - 12-13-2010 at 06:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
If these military guys are scared of the US Military,


They may be more afraid of the public reaction to anything that resembles collusion with the US military and government. The people have had it pounded into their heads that the US is the cause of all their woes. So many actually believe it.
The country is courting collapse and a public that senses betrayal from their leaders is capable of anything and it would probably start with anarchy.

This is all new to the military. For years, their primary, almost only objective was to protect the president. They had no wars to work on. The generals built fiefdoms and had private agendas.
Along comes an insurgency and they don't know how to act in concert.
Mexico is close to being isolated. Then they will welcome US assistance.
Until then, it's hands off.

Woooosh - 12-13-2010 at 06:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
If these military guys are scared of the US Military,


They may be more afraid of the public reaction to anything that resembles collusion with the US military and government. The people have had it pounded into their heads that the US is the cause of all their woes. So many actually believe it.
The country is courting collapse and a public that senses betrayal from their leaders is capable of anything and it would probably start with anarchy.

This is all new to the military. For years, their primary, almost only objective was to protect the president. They had no wars to work on. The generals built fiefdoms and had private agendas.
Along comes an insurgency and they don't know how to act in concert.
Mexico is close to being isolated. Then they will welcome US assistance.
Until then, it's hands off.

exactly right Dennis. I would add (you may not agree) that the time to resist outside help has passed, with three areas of Mexico (including TJ) recently (and likely currently) being considered for martial law. The time has come for Mexico to find leadership from somewhere before it is too late. Clearly there is no one clean and strong enough to lead. Some are clean, and some are strong- but too few are both.

LancairDriver - 12-13-2010 at 06:24 PM

Very unlikely the US will get involved in a ground pounder war in Mexico unless there is a drastic change in border violence. Given that we are loosing the war in Afghanistan and Iraq is getting more unstable, plus the deficit we are running, makes it even more unlikely. Probably more material and intelligence military aid to Mexico will be forthcoming.
Going into Mexico with US troops and kicking down doors and the inevitable killing of innocents by US troops would quickly change Mexican sentiment toward the US, and result in a real disaster.

DENNIS - 12-13-2010 at 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
Going into Mexico with US troops and kicking down doors and the inevitable killing of innocents by US troops would quickly change Mexican sentiment toward the US, and result in a real disaster.


Within the US as well. Mexico already has too many divisions in place.
This is becoming uncomfortable brainstorming for me.

Woooosh - 12-13-2010 at 06:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
Going into Mexico with US troops and kicking down doors and the inevitable killing of innocents by US troops would quickly change Mexican sentiment toward the US, and result in a real disaster.


Within the US as well. Mexico already has too many divisions in place.
This is becoming uncomfortable brainstorming for me.

I don't ever see the US military going door to door to rout the narcos. I think in addition to intel, joint training exercises and perhaps joint-operated checkpoints (border regions) would be as visible as the US military would get. To my knowledge joint exercises with Mexico have never occurred. They have also never occurred between Mexican military factions either- no trust and no sharing intel. If the situation in Mexico deteriorated beyond where joint training and perhaps checkpoints are needed- we would need all the US military on the border to stop a tsunami of millions of Mexicans from flooding into the USA.

The Mexican people of today are not the Mexican people of five years ago. They have real-time access to information via the web. They see "the truth" in BlogDelNarco YouTube videos and no longer believe what they read- because journalism has already been compromised.

DENNIS - 12-13-2010 at 08:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't ever see the US military going door to door to rout the narcos.


That wouldn't work for anybody. I mean....what do narcos look like? Nothing short of aggressive, painful interrogation methods will point out which doors to knock on. Mexico has in the past displayed an expertise with this method. Why stop now.

BajaGringo - 12-13-2010 at 08:46 PM

I agree that the general population here would not take well to the idea of armed, US troops south of the border. There are more than a few down here however, who believe that is already happening, explaining some of the more recent military success in killing/capturing narco leaders.

Who knows???

:?:

mulegemichael - 12-13-2010 at 08:47 PM

narcos are so easy to spot..come on...there they are..right there!

akshadow - 12-13-2010 at 09:03 PM

Where is the proof of this statement. do you not think there are major numbers of arms that are getting out of the Mexican armies hands? From further south in Latin America? With money you can buy arms.
Quote:
Originally posted by sancho
Not to mention most/all guns are sent to Mex from
the US. I have yet to see any success in the Drug Wars
in Mex are here in the US

JESSE - 12-13-2010 at 09:08 PM

Narcos are not the main problem in Mexico, the problem is an extremely corrupt political-business elite that refuses to see the fact that Mexico cannot stay doing business the same way. They just don't understand, that Mexican society is sick and tired and angry to the point of revolt, and are willing to do anything, to get out of poverty. To most Mexicans, it is clear that unless your in politics, or belong to a family of the elite business community, it is virtually impossible to get ahead and forge a successful law abiding future with good honest work. Wich only leaves you with the only other possible choice, get into the drug business.

This nation is being destroyed BY THE POLITICIANS AND THE BUSINESS ELITE that are completely out of touch with Mexican society. Not the narcos.

Woooosh - 12-13-2010 at 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
I agree that the general population here would not take well to the idea of armed, US troops south of the border. There are more than a few down here however, who believe that is already happening, explaining some of the more recent military success in killing/capturing narco leaders.

Who knows???

:?:

The many include the US diplomats. One of the WikiLeaks cables states the Mexican Navy was acting on information from the United States when it battled and eventually killed top drug cartel leader Arturo Beltran-Leyva last December.

...and wasn't the US Gov't assisting Mexico in tracking El Teo for many months by his phone calls last year?

[Edited on 12-14-2010 by Woooosh]

JESSE - 12-13-2010 at 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by akshadow
Where is the proof of this statement. do you not think there are major numbers of arms that are getting out of the Mexican armies hands? From further south in Latin America? With money you can buy arms.

Quote:
Originally posted by sancho
Not to mention most/all guns are sent to Mex from
the US. I have yet to see any success in the Drug Wars
in Mex are here in the US


The types of weapons narcos use are not used by the mex military, so its not coming from them. And why buy old guns from central america, when you can buy new ones at cheaper prices at the border. Fact of the matter is, most guns do come from the US.

Woooosh - 12-13-2010 at 09:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by akshadow
Where is the proof of this statement. do you not think there are major numbers of arms that are getting out of the Mexican armies hands? From further south in Latin America? With money you can buy arms.

Quote:
Originally posted by sancho
Not to mention most/all guns are sent to Mex from
the US. I have yet to see any success in the Drug Wars
in Mex are here in the US


The types of weapons narcos use are not used by the mex military, so its not coming from them. And why buy old guns from central america, when you can buy new ones at cheaper prices at the border. Fact of the matter is, most guns do come from the US.

Today the US released the names of the ten top gun dealers to the Mexican cartels. The #1 guy had sold 115 guns traced back to him over the past two years:

"Carter, 76, has operated four Carter's Country stores in the Houston metropolitan area over the past half-century. In the past two years, more than 115 guns from his stores have been seized by the police and military in Mexico."


http://www.offnews.info/verArticulo.php?contenidoID=26546

JESSE - 12-13-2010 at 09:28 PM

"Under federal law, a gun dealer who sells two or more handguns to the same person within five business days must report the sales to ATF. The agency has identified such sales as a red flag, or "significant indicator," of trafficking. But multiple sales of "long guns," which include shotguns and rifles such as AK-47s, do not have to be report"

:wow:

Woooosh - 12-13-2010 at 09:31 PM

Most Mexicans look at the guns "uniformed men" are carrying to determine if they are the real deal. Not the uniforms, not decals on the trucks, but the types of guns they carry. Jesse is correct, the narcos and military use very different weapons.

JESSE - 12-13-2010 at 09:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Most Mexicans look at the guns "uniformed men" are carrying to determine if they are the real deal. Not the uniforms, not decals on the trucks, but the types of guns they carry. Jesse is correct, the narcos and military use very different weapons.


Mex military uses the G3

JESSE - 12-13-2010 at 09:39 PM

Narcos almost always use

AK47 or some type of AR weapon.

BajaGringo - 12-14-2010 at 10:23 AM

Are they getting the AK47's from the USA???

DENNIS - 12-14-2010 at 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Are they getting the AK47's from the USA???



Gun shows have it all including ease of purchase.

bajaguy - 12-14-2010 at 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
I agree that the general population here would not take well to the idea of armed, US troops south of the border. There are more than a few down here however, who believe that is already happening, explaining some of the more recent military success in killing/capturing narco leaders.

Who knows???

:?:






If you think that the US military is not involved in "operations" (define that any way you want) in Mexico, you are not dealing in reality........

DENNIS - 12-14-2010 at 11:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy




If you think that the US military is not involved in "operations" (define that any way you want) in Mexico, you are not dealing in reality........


If the implication is combat involvement, how can that be taken beyond the point of speculation? If true, it would have to be one of the world's most guarded secrets.
The Mexican people won't tolerate our military presence in their country. If there's any way they would, do you not believe we would have been called upon to fight their war by now? We would have our people dying in their streets without a clue as to why because, as has been explained here recently, it isn't just about drugs.
We're all aware of the Merida Initiative to a certain degree. We have no idea how far-reaching it is.

bajadock - 12-14-2010 at 11:31 AM

Spooks?

sanquintinsince73 - 12-14-2010 at 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
I agree that the general population here would not take well to the idea of armed, US troops south of the border. There are more than a few down here however, who believe that is already happening, explaining some of the more recent military success in killing/capturing narco leaders.

Who knows???

:?:

DEA is already "in country" providing intelligence. Our ears in the sky track cell phone use and our "super computers" provide voice recognition. Most of the narco arrest's are due to U.S. provided intelligence.





If you think that the US military is not involved in "operations" (define that any way you want) in Mexico, you are not dealing in reality........

sanquintinsince73 - 12-14-2010 at 11:45 AM

The drug trade is now, IMHO, a "clear and present danger" to our national security. Kidnappings and murders are occurring from San Diego to Brownsville, and even in Atlanta, which is a major hub for the cartels.

Bajahowodd - 12-14-2010 at 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE


This nation is being destroyed BY THE POLITICIANS AND THE BUSINESS ELITE that are completely out of touch with Mexican society. Not the narcos.


Hey Jesse. Substitute United States for Mexico in that sentence. Same result. :(

Very graphic and disturbing video.

sanquintinsince73 - 12-14-2010 at 12:24 PM

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/12/video-of-el-ponchis-ex...


El Pochis is the 14-year old kid arrested recently.

[Edited on 12-14-2010 by sanquintinsince73]

DENNIS - 12-14-2010 at 12:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73


Very graphic and disturbing video.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/12/video-of-el-ponchis-ex...


El Pochis is the 14-year old kid arrested recently.

Ordinarily I would object to the violent nature of videos here such as these, but in this case, everybody needs to be fully aware of the severity of this kid's crimes so as to be armed and ready for the bleeding hearts who are sure to surface and pronounce him as "another one of God's children" ready to be saved.

I guess he won't be tried as an adult, but he should be found criminally insane, beyond repair.
Lock him up with Manson.

monoloco - 12-14-2010 at 02:01 PM

That was one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen. These people are the lowest form of life and should be treated as such. I hope they have the chance to experience what they have subjected their victims to.

sanquintinsince73 - 12-14-2010 at 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73


Very graphic and disturbing video.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/12/video-of-el-ponchis-ex...


El Pochis is the 14-year old kid arrested recently.

Ordinarily I would object to the violent nature of videos here such as these, but in this case, everybody needs to be fully aware of the severity of this kid's crimes so as to be armed and ready for the bleeding hearts who are sure to surface and pronounce him as "another one of God's children" ready to be saved.

I guess he won't be tried as an adult, but he should be found criminally insane, beyond repair.
Lock him up with Manson.

I agree, Dennis. I just wanted to show the brutality with which these cartels operate. It is very sickening to watch and at the same time it is sad to see to what lengths a young kid will go for a measly few pesos. To think that this is going on all over Mexico is just sad.

BajaGringo - 12-14-2010 at 08:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
I agree that the general population here would not take well to the idea of armed, US troops south of the border. There are more than a few down here however, who believe that is already happening, explaining some of the more recent military success in killing/capturing narco leaders.

Who knows???

:?:



If you think that the US military is not involved in "operations" (define that any way you want) in Mexico, you are not dealing in reality........


I know we give support in various ways but armed support? it may be happening but as Dennis says it would have to be a very well kept secret. I have encountered some down here who do think that is already happening but as far as I know it is just rumors...

Woooosh - 12-14-2010 at 09:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
I agree that the general population here would not take well to the idea of armed, US troops south of the border. There are more than a few down here however, who believe that is already happening, explaining some of the more recent military success in killing/capturing narco leaders.

Who knows???

:?:



If you think that the US military is not involved in "operations" (define that any way you want) in Mexico, you are not dealing in reality........


I know we give support in various ways but armed support? it may be happening but as Dennis says it would have to be a very well kept secret. I have encountered some down here who do think that is already happening but as far as I know it is just rumors...

We do have US Troops on the ground on the Guatemalan side of the Mexican border assisting in efforts to secure their border. With some 1,700 crossing points I'm sure a few troops have wandered over the line.

sanquintinsince73 - 12-15-2010 at 08:16 AM

I've been thinking alot about this "military intervention" that is making the rounds. I concluded that if the media is already talking about it, it is probably because it's already been talked about in the highest levels of our government.
I do not believe that we'll ever see our forces on the ground in Mexico unless the situation deteriorates so badly that Americans have to be evacuated or Mexico plunges into civil war.
I was once under house arrest at Camp Pendleton and part of my "punishment" was to go wash some Colonels car every day. He was cool and we started started talking politics. I asked about a situation arising in Mexico and his response was that the United States has contingency plans to invade any country in the world, even our allies. He also stated that the United States would never allow a revolution/civil war in Mexico.
I think eventually we will start to see "advisers" in Mexico.......sound familiar?

wessongroup - 12-15-2010 at 09:22 AM

"If you think that the US military is not involved in "operations" (define that any way you want) in Mexico, you are not dealing in reality........"

Delta Forces... AWAC's.. Sat Intel... et al... they don't have to have boots on the ground... at this time... per sea... but, defiantly agree with Bajaguy... we are helping "Identify, define, adopt a course of action, and then implement the plan...

This is the same approach used 80- 90's for the Columbia and Panama (with a more direct knowledge of Panama) which lead to the death of that structure which existed till around mid 1990's

We have our collective ears on at all times... if you don't think so ... start counting from last year around August and September.. to around yesterday ... the number of "Heads" of Cartels and /or leaders of factions... that are being moved across the border post haste to receive a sentence and "Stateside Jail" time.. like for the rest of their lives... no death sentences... just life in jail.. keeps Mexico happy... with the deal

Also check the number of "heads" of cartels that have been taken "OUT" PERIOD!!!

There has a been a significant response to the physical force used by the traffickers... it would appear they have crossed the line... money is one thing... cutting heads, and doing 20 folks at a time... is bad for business... and gets you front page news... anyone on the dark side knows what that means long term....

They have to knock them back a few years in their (Cartels) operational control over things and their overall importance ... to the populous

Still have "snow" coming out of Columbia... but, not with the same degree of mayhem which was occurring under Escobar... he went too far... and got too big... which caused him to be taken out....

These guys (Mexicans) have been smuggling pot and smack for a long while... they have just moved into another league after picking up the slack from the demise of the Medina Cartels among others to the south... in 1993....

Given that the President of Bolivia chews the coca leaf, as do many, many other native people of the area ... don't see things really changing all that much... long term.. the plant can be used in its natural state for medical purposes... and has been for thousand of years... that gringo's what to make it into something else would not appear to be the fault of the plant, nor the folks that grow coca..

Maybe they should just legalize the use of "chewing the leaf"... doesn't seem to have negatively impacted these cultures which have been using it for a few thousand years... just for a jump start, much like coffee... but much cheaper...

Oh no, money again... coffee, crack, mota... gee what's a guy have to do for a fix... was watching an old movie the other night... a cup of coffee 5 cents... now those were the good old days... a dollar would last a couple of days.. coffee and smokes too... wow..... ya I know ... smoke will kill you...

But, did you know that Samuel Clemens smoked 40 cigars a day ... he made it to 74.... my Grandfather smoke camels.. and would get cowboy drunk when he and his brother Claude got together ... 78 was the last straw, had to bail them out of the Long Beach jail (had been over playing cards in Gardena all day and night) ... both like to drink bourbon straight from the bottle ... play poker and would smoke up a storm.. Grandfather made it to 104, Claude, who did a quart of bourbon a day... (some said he was an alcoholic, he said he said he was just thirsty) and maybe two to three packs of smokes.. he made it to 89... and he ate bacon for breakfast just about everyday...

Grate Grandfather Campbell made it to 106... smoked and drank too... was Scottish Irish ... they got here (VA) in 1812 from Ireland... had gotten tired of growing potatoes ..........

Hey, that's it... supplant coca.. with potatoes for vodka... potatoes are native plants here too... along with coca..

Maybe they could make a "RedMan" with coca leaf .... now talk about a chew....

Woooosh - 12-15-2010 at 09:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
I've been thinking alot about this "military intervention" that is making the rounds. I concluded that if the media is already talking about it, it is probably because it's already been talked about in the highest levels of our government.
I do not believe that we'll ever see our forces on the ground in Mexico unless the situation deteriorates so badly that Americans have to be evacuated or Mexico plunges into civil war.
I was once under house arrest at Camp Pendleton and part of my "punishment" was to go wash some Colonels car every day. He was cool and we started started talking politics. I asked about a situation arising in Mexico and his response was that the United States has contingency plans to invade any country in the world, even our allies. He also stated that the United States would never allow a revolution/civil war in Mexico.
I think eventually we will start to see "advisers" in Mexico.......sound familiar?


Yes, def sounds familiar- but not on our doorstep. Of course the US Military has contingency plans for every possible scenario. I'd be very disappointed in the trillions we spend if we didn't. If there is an evacuation plan for US Citizens out of Mexico- it would be nice if they shared it with us. There would be a million Mexicans heading north, doing the same thing and we need to know how to get to the front of the line.

sanquintinsince73 - 12-15-2010 at 02:24 PM

Congressman Calls on Obama to Take Illegal Immigration 'Seriously' Following Death of Border Agent

Published December 15, 2010

| FoxNews.com


The incoming chairman of the House Judiciary Committee said the shooting death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent is a "sad reminder" of the dangers law enforcement officers face on a daily basis and called on the Obama administration to secure the U.S.-Mexico border.

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Elect Lamar Smith, R-Texas, said the killing of Brian A. Terry in southern Arizona late Tuesday should serve as wake-up call to President Obama and his administration.

"The Obama administration’s lax enforcement of immigration laws, coupled with calls for mass amnesty, only encourage more illegal immigration," Smith said in a statement released Wednesday. "Our border remains porous and the Obama administration has done nothing to stop the steady flow of human and drug smuggling from Mexico."

Agent Brian A. Terry, 40, was killed late Tuesday near Rio Rico, Ariz., according to a statement released by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officials. At least four suspects are in custody and another is still being pursued.

The leader of a union representing Border Patrol agents said Terry was trying to catch bandits who target illegal immigrants for robbery.

National Border Patrol Council President T.J. Bonner said Terry was waiting with three other agents in a remote area north of Nogales when a gun battle began. A CBP spokesman would not confirm that account.

Prior to Terry's death, the last fatal shooting of a Border Patrol agent was on July 23, 2009, when Robert Rosas, 30, was killed by unidentified assailants while responding to suspicious activity in a known smuggling corridor near Campo, Calif., CBP officials said.

Since 2005, according to Smith's statement, roughly 28,000 people have been killed along the U.S.-Mexico border, including 1,000 law enforcement officers.

"The murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry is a sad reminder of the real-life dangers that Americans and our law enforcement agents face along the southwest border," Smith's statement continued. "What will it take to make the Obama administration realize that we must do more to secure our border and keep Americans safe? Earlier this year, a rancher in Arizona was killed on his own property. The suspect is believed to have been an illegal immigrant. Last night, Border Patrol Agent Terry lost his life for simply doing his job. How many more Americans will die before the Obama administration wakes up and starts taking illegal immigration seriously?"