BajaNomad

Baja California Beckons: "We are close and we are safe" (OK- one out of two)

Woooosh - 1-24-2011 at 04:35 PM

Does anyone who hears the call of Baja Norte believe it? Not many it seems. Rosarito Beach had a 20% hotel occupancy for 2010 and only 200 real estate transactions total.

Didn't this author read the WikiLeak when the US State Department confirmed TJ was one of three Mexican areas considered for martial law? (We had to learn that from WikiLeaks because the NOB press was still saying everything was safe in Baja during that period). And so what if no tourists have died here yet- that is just a matter of odds (right now there are no tourists so the odds of one getting killed are very low).

Didn't this author hear the narcos threatened to kill all the 6th graders in a Rosarito school last Friday? Didn't he hear the Sinaloas are doing combat with the Marinas in streets of Rosarito and the military has taken over the security for Rosarito and even built a barracks? Didn't he hear the narcos are now growing their pot and poppies in the wine region of Ensenada. He needs to get his baja crime news from Frontera instead of the Union Tribune before he accepts "It's safe" without challenging it a bit. The nostalgic opening about camping on the beach and getting lobster dinners and buckets of beer on the cheap show this guy is still living in the past. Hey, we'd all like to roll Baja back in time a few decades. I know this is what PR people do for a living, but it is dangerous to those who fall for it. Baja should wait until the judicial reforms and new state police take charge before rolling out the welcome mat. jmho

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Baja-California-B...

[Edited on 1-25-2011 by Woooosh]

Bajahowodd - 1-24-2011 at 05:27 PM

Maybe Funcke is on Hugo's payroll.

Woooosh - 1-24-2011 at 06:14 PM

Nope Hugo's no longer mayor- and is back to selling his condotel units. Times are tough for Hugo- he stripped the building of all the nice teak pool furniture and replaced them with plastic.

On the same day they say "It's close and it's safe" an article on the Pozolero...
"What happened to the 300 bodies?"

http://www.sandiegored.com/noticias/4408/What-happened-to-th...


Mexican police: Gunmen open fire at soccer game, 7 dead

The sign above the dead player reads "Live Better"

[Edited on 1-25-2011 by Woooosh]

t1larg.juarez.shooting.raci.jpg - 49kB

sancho - 1-26-2011 at 02:03 PM

I'm sure you 2 guys know of the blog out
of Playa TJ, called Maggies, or close to that,
if that was mainstream/ required reading, I don't believe
any tourists would venture so. of San Diego

gnukid - 1-26-2011 at 02:42 PM

With due respect to the plight of northern Baja cities who are suffering violence, perhaps the first step is to become better informed about your world around you and what role you play in shaping your world. Improved society starts from within, society is the collective self. I'm sorry if that is too deep for Whoosh or DK but give it a try.

When you base your actions on reaction, and on fear based on manipulative media messaging you will always end up misinformed reaching the wrong conclusions and thus the wrong actions. When you base your actions on truth and love your actions have infinite impact.

Instead of trusting PR or TV, perhaps trust yourself, trust your gut feeling. Your message clearly represents a lack of willingness to accept the truth, take time yourself to write down a list of who is perpetrating these attacks, who is involved, why, where and who benefits. Its not Jose in a van. It's right in front of you, not some hidden secret mission of unknowns. Until you do see the world as it really is you are living in a world made of lies which leaves you incapable and unwilling to cope.

[Edited on 1-26-2011 by gnukid]

Can't you simplify it up a bit?

Dave - 1-26-2011 at 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
With due respect to the plight of northern Baja cities who are suffering violence, perhaps the first step is to become better informed about your world around you and what role you play in shaping your world. Improved society starts from within, society is the collective self. I'm sorry if that is too deep for Whoosh or DK but give it a try.

When you base your actions on reaction, and on fear based on manipulative media messaging you will always end up misinformed reaching the wrong conclusions and thus the wrong actions. When you base your actions on truth and love your actions have infinite impact.

Instead of trusting PR or TV, perhaps trust yourself, trust your gut feeling. Your message clearly represents a lack of willingness to accept the truth, take time yourself to write down a list of who is perpetrating these attacks, who is involved, why, where and who benefits. Its not Jose in a van. It's right in front of you, not some hidden secret mission of unknowns. Until you do see the world as it really is you are living in a world made of lies which leaves you incapable and unwilling to cope.

[Edited on 1-26-2011 by gnukid]


Seems like a lot of trouble just to eat tacos, drink beer and see a donkey show. :rolleyes:

sancho - 1-26-2011 at 05:03 PM

gnukid, Why take an unprovoked shot at DK?
I'll have have to go back to San Diego State,
what classes do suggest I take to understand
your deep analysis

Woooosh - 1-26-2011 at 09:23 PM

It's just BS, don't waste your brain cells on it. The US State Department got the situation right in Baja Norte- not the UT, and certainly not the cross-border business groups. Mexico does not deny the WikiLeaks reports are accurate. THAT is the shocker. There are people and groups that either can't see the truth or hold economic interests that prevent them from accepting it as the truth. The violence is here (again) and Baja Norte will never be the same place it was 30 years ago when I first surfed here. The narcos have killed the tourist economy and with it the local economy. That is today's reality- it is what it is.

I built my house and moved here in 2005 before all the narco violence. Living here has been a learning experience we did not ask for. We chose to live in central Rosarito so we are in the middle of it all, not hidden behind gates and guards. I joined Baja Nomads after my first kidnap attempt- seeking information and answers from fellow ex-pats. The PGJE told me the kidnappers were "delinquents who intended to do me harm". That was honest and I accepted it. I did not run away, I stepped up our security and got more involved with our neighbors. When we had an armed carjack attempt in TJ, we didn't stop driving- instead we questioned why the security cameras placed on the via rapida to protect tourists were now all gone. I am not a gringo, I am a CT Yankee. We fight for the people and are revolutionary by nature. We don't turn and run. We don't mince words. No apologies.

And before you call me out for not taking a role, what role does a person with an FM3 have in the narco war? none. It's Mexico's problem to fix Mexico. This is their Sputnik moment, not mine. I do think there is role for the millions of Mexicans who moved to the USA and now have advanced college degrees- but they won't return home to help fix their country. It probably hasn't even occurred to them they could be the solution.

My family is doing it's part to move Mexico forward. My favorite nephew just graduated from college in December and entered the Mexican Army in January. We won't see or hear from him for six months. With his degree he hopes to be an officer in the new CLEAN Baja State Police force. We are proud of him. What are you doing to create change beside writing BS? You can KMWA.

[Edited on 1-27-2011 by Woooosh]

JoeJustJoe - 1-27-2011 at 01:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Does anyone who hears the call of Baja Norte believe it? Not many it seems. Rosarito Beach had a 20% hotel occupancy for 2010 and only 200 real estate transactions total.

Didn't this author read the WikiLeak when the US State Department confirmed TJ was one of three Mexican areas considered for martial law? (We had to learn that from WikiLeaks because the NOB press was still saying everything was safe in Baja during that period). And so what if no tourists have died here yet- that is just a matter of odds (right now there are no tourists so the odds of one getting killed are very low).

Didn't this author hear the narcos threatened to kill all the 6th graders in a Rosarito school last Friday? Didn't he hear the Sinaloas are doing combat with the Marinas in streets of Rosarito and the military has taken over the security for Rosarito and even built a barracks? Didn't he hear the narcos are now growing their pot and poppies in the wine region of Ensenada. He needs to get his baja crime news from Frontera instead of the Union Tribune before he accepts "It's safe" without challenging it a bit. The nostalgic opening about camping on the beach and getting lobster dinners and buckets of beer on the cheap show this guy is still living in the past. Hey, we'd all like to roll Baja back in time a few decades. I know this is what PR people do for a living, but it is dangerous to those who fall for it. Baja should wait until the judicial reforms and new state police take charge before rolling out the welcome mat. jmho

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Baja-California-B...

[Edited on 1-25-2011 by Woooosh]



Whooosh needs to take a chill pill. If Rosarito Beach had a 20% hotel occupancy and tourism is way down in Baja then I would say the media has done it's job and already got the message across that visiting the border area is very dangerous. Anymore stories about drug cartels killings is just over kill. Personally I don't think the Baja area is dangerous at all to visit at all especially during the day. Now if I were selling Cristal/meth on the streets of Rosarito Beach belonging to a rival drug cartel. Well then I would be concerned for my life, but since I'm not a drug pusher or junkie I'm not scared at all.

The worst thing the San Diego papers could do is post is post that irresponsible story that was in the " Frontera" about some crank calls a school in Rosarito Beech was getting about shooting 6 graders in retaliation for the "Boxers" arrest. There have been no other shooting of children by the drug cartels in retaliation for a drug kingpins arrests or top lieutenants like the Boxer. ( there have been some retaliations against cops but never mass killing of school children) The call looks like an obvious crank call or terrorist like threat designed to scare people. The only ones who should know about those types of threats are the parents and the police. The San Diego papers don't need to know that unless you want to lose the other 20 percent too.

Whooosh you keep acting like the Mexican "WikiLeak" memo talking points is imminent and we'll soon be seeing martial law all across major narco cities like nearly Tijuana.

Hogwash the "Wikileaks" caught backroom diplomats talking in a frank manner about their wishes, and some of them were neocons from both sides of the border, and most of it was just wishful thinking. They would then have to sell the idea to other politicians, business leaders, and the Mexican people. The political realities are a different story. I don't think we'll see "martial law" anytime soon in Mexico nor boots on the ground from America fighting the "war on drugs." I'm sorry to disappoint you Whoosh but I don't see it happening soon, and pretty soon it's going to be 2012 and Calderon and his PAN party might be gone.

I was reading in the 'MexFiles" that Carlos Slim believes it's foolish to let the temporary violence scare away investments and he has no intention of leaving Mexico. You think Carlos Slim is going to let the Mexican government declare Martial law and see investments money dry up.


[Edited on 1-27-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

Lobsterman - 1-27-2011 at 05:38 AM

Thanks Whoosh for keeping us informed. Please watch your backside. Yes Mexico is flocked up beyond repair for my lifetime, i.e murders, land swindles, graft, ........, ..........., ........, ............, ..........., ..........., ....................., ............, ........., ..........., ........, ......... and corruption. It has kept me on the USA side of the border for the past 5 years but the lore of southern baja, like a sirene, is calling. Like a wilderbeast traveling thru prides of lions I will be making a trek south towing my boat to Lopez Mateos. There is a high probabilty I'll make it but there IS a very small chance I will be intercepted by a lion.

Fishing adventures not found in USA waters beckon and cloud my senses. Hopefully, I will make it past that northern killing zone. I've only got one life and I'd like to keep it inspite of others interpretation of Mexico's reality.

1987 Cabo216

[Edited on 1-27-2011 by Lobsterman]

3 center1 320.jpg - 30kB

Barbarosa - 1-27-2011 at 08:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lobsterman
Yes Mexico is f'd up beyond repair for my lifetime, i.e murders, land swindles, graft, ........, ..........., ........, ............, ..........., ..........., ....................., ............, ........., ..........., ........, ......... and corruption. It has kept me on the USA side of the border for the past 5 years but the lore of southern baja, like a sirene, is calling. Like a wilderbeast traveling thru prides of lions I will be making a trek south towing my boat to Lopez Mateos. There is a high probabilty I'll make it but there IS a very small chance I will be intercepted by a lion.

Fishing adventures not found in USA waters beckon and cloud my senses. Hopefully, I will make it past that northern killing zone. I've only got one life and I'd like to keep it inspite of others interpretation of Mexico's reality.

1987 Cabo216

[Edited on 1-27-2011 by Lobsterman]


Well said and ditto that! (For me I guess it's been 6 years, but I repeat myself.)

Bad sh-- stuff happens all around the world; fortunately not very much of it in Baha, esp south of Ensenada. It's of course a certainty that the place will never be the place it was 30 years ago. (Neither will I. <g>)


My favorite "Miss Peach" (remember Miss Peach?) has her taking her class out on a field trip. They're out standing under a big old oak and her line is: "That tree has been living in this spot for 4 hundred years."

And one of the kindergarteners replies: "If you call that living."

Chafing at the bit, I am. (Have we left yet?)

jaygarcia - 1-27-2011 at 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
You think Carlos Slim is going to let the Mexican government declare Marital law and see investments money dry up.


Do you think Carlos Slim tells the president of Mexico what he can and cannot do? Isn't "Marital" law something to do with same sex marriages?

JoeJustJoe - 1-27-2011 at 02:35 PM

It's my personal policy to never address trolls with less than 50 posts, especially if they are from Poway, Romona, or using a proxy.

But it sure looks like the Nomad board for a expat community sure has a lot of scared chickens regarding the danger level of Mexico. ( It's too dangerous, let me cower under the blankets and be scared.)

I usually only see that type of behavior from people who don't actually live in Mexico or even travel there. If you get a chance check out the anti-Mexico posts on "SignsOnSanDiego" in the Border and Immigration and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Woooosh - 1-27-2011 at 03:35 PM

Carlos Slim's billions in investments go far beyond Mexico. He owns a lot of the USA now actually and I've not heard one American scream foul of a pending Mexican economic invasion through him. He really doesn't need Mexico to thrive for him to make more money these days.

I do take the US State Department cables at face value, and it seems Mexicans have nodded their heads in agreement to the ones released so far. They explain what the Mexican people have always known- corruption all the way to the top is rampant and none of the security agencies trust each other enough to work together. I think it is still too early to know if Mexico can change enough to survive. They are too focused on displacing blame- just yesterday the Catholic Church here said Satan is causing these problems in Mexico. huh? We're used to the blame placed on the USA, but Satan?

People have short memories. When all the TJ cops were fired and replaced by the military a few years ago that's about as close to martial law you can get without the next step of actually taking away constitutional rights. But the Mexican Army took advantage of the situation, because they were corrupt as well. The State department then put out travel warnings and were berated by the Mexican gov't. Then everyone blamed the NOB press. After a few years of calm we are now going through the same cycle again. It's just a matter of time before tourists are killed. Missionaries and kids playing soccer don't count I guess. The NOB media was playing along with Mexico and the cross-border business groups the whole time- so you can't blame their articles on the 20% hotel occupancy rate or 200 real estate transactions for 2010.

The tourism downturn doesn't have everything to do with the crime, it's mostly economics imho (and an advanced degree in economics). People simply don't have the disposable income or will to travel or buy real estate in Baja like they did just a few short years ago. Baja raised it's prices on everything to match the economic boom that was 2007 and it now needs to reset them because of the bust. We are going through a paradigm shift and Mexico must change or perish. More advanced countries like Tunisia and Egypt have educated young masses demanding change. Not down here yet.

The other problem hurting the Baja economy is Mexico itself. They are stuck on stupid. They have confused people into thinking dollars are no longer welcome in Baja. They have changed the pharmacy laws and killed that industry over prescriptions for antibiotics. They complain tourists aren't coming to TJ/Rosarito and then they pass a new law to close all the clubs at 1am. Who is going to pay $30 for the same lobster dinner Puerto Nuevo serves when you can get it from the same Mexican family in San Diego (Ortegas) for the same price. I don't think people are afraid to come to Baja necessarily, they just don't see the point of coming down here any more and waiting two hours in line to get back home. I think that is why hotel occupancy is 20% in Rosarito. There's no draw any more and the hotels catering to tourists still charge way too much and once they get here the big nightclubs that put Rosarito on the map are closed. Iggy never came back- and he basically ran the marketing efforts for Rosarito spring breaks.

Can Rosarito recover? Yes, if it gets back to what it did before they killed the goose that laid the golden egg- offer a close-by, unique travel experience at a great price. Same for real estate. But they can't make a change like that. It's not in them to. jmho joe

[Edited on 1-27-2011 by Woooosh]

gnukid - 1-28-2011 at 07:53 AM

First there was the war on drugs, now it's the war on terror.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/399.html

Hidden helpers of the heroine trade
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/910.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-29/banks-financing-mex...

http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-708-going-deep-wi...

http://videos.videopress.com/c6n90sWW/newamerican-druglords-...

http://www.narconews.com/darkalliance/drugs/start.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GyzoFKNBdU

http://www.amazon.com/Barry-Boys-Americas-Secret-History/dp/...


Catherine Austin Fitts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh0sJcDwW9A

Charles Bowden in Harpers Magazine on US trained undercover hitmen in Mexico
http://www.tomfeiling.com/archive/Harpersmagazinesicariostor...

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by gnukid]

woody with a view - 1-28-2011 at 09:03 AM

same here. although the last two trips resulted in less than an hour at TJ heading north. so that was cool.

krafty - 1-28-2011 at 09:52 AM

Woosh it seems to me that you are part of the problema-we need to chill the bad news about Rosarito-once again, if you are not selling and dealing in drugs I believe you will be fine-why spread the fear? As far as crossing back, there are several places in Baja that for a couple of bucks you can get a fast track pass if you are not interested in a SENTRI-think it would be wise for the gov./restaurant assoc. to make this option more known. You claim there is no longer incentive to come here-as I write I am looking at the beautiful ocean with frolicking dolphins in front of me-and yes, I live here full time, have done nothing different than we did 10 years ago. Folks pay good money to be by the beach and enjoy the weather, mexican food, graciousness of the local folks-why are YOU here?

LINKS

bajajazz - 1-28-2011 at 09:57 AM

Thanks for posting these links, Gnu. They make interesting -- albeit depressing -- reading.

I have always wondered if Gary Webb's "suicide" was on the up and up, or yet another uninvestigated murder?
Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
First there was the war on drugs, now it's the war on terror.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/399.html

Hidden helpers of the heroine trade
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/910.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-29/banks-financing-mex...

http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-708-going-deep-wi...

http://videos.videopress.com/c6n90sWW/newamerican-druglords-...

http://www.narconews.com/darkalliance/drugs/start.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GyzoFKNBdU

http://www.amazon.com/Barry-Boys-Americas-Secret-History/dp/...


Catherine Austin Fitts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh0sJcDwW9A

Charles Bowden in Harpers Magazine on US trained undercover hitmen in Mexico
http://www.tomfeiling.com/archive/Harpersmagazinesicariostor...

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by gnukid]

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
Woosh it seems to me that you are part of the problema-we need to chill the bad news about Rosarito-once again, if you are not selling and dealing in drugs I believe you will be fine-why spread the fear? As far as crossing back, there are several places in Baja that for a couple of bucks you can get a fast track pass if you are not interested in a SENTRI-think it would be wise for the gov./restaurant assoc. to make this option more known. You claim there is no longer incentive to come here-as I write I am looking at the beautiful ocean with frolicking dolphins in front of me-and yes, I live here full time, have done nothing different than we did 10 years ago. Folks pay good money to be by the beach and enjoy the weather, mexican food, graciousness of the local folks-why are YOU here?


I am part of the problem? Chill? I am here because Rosarito is my family' home. You just did the equivalent of telling the Mexicans in the USA to shut their mouths and go back home to Mexico. What a racist comment. The truth I post here is not to scare people, but to bridge the gap between what the media reports and the truth. Why are you afraid of the truth? Everyone has their comfort zones. I'm very happy here, but feel everyone considering a trip to Baja Norte should know what they can expect once they cross into the third world that is of Mexico.

"Chilling" and the philosophy of "manana" are what allowed Mexico to slip back into instability. This is not a country of social activists- Mexicans tend to peek out their windows, not march in the streets. They feels impotent as the WikiLeaks cables point out (and the new Mexican cables released this week only reinforce that). I don't think you understand how important this time is for the survival of Mexico. Mexico has to either step up now, or accept it cannot enforce the rule of law and protect its people. Chilling is the problem here. Why do you think there are 11 million Mexicans in the USA? They pretty much gave up on Mexico. My Mexican family prefers to stay here, fight for the people and create change.

And while you are watching the dolphins play here in Rosarito today, be aware the beaches are closed all the way to TJ because of the large unchecked sewage spills. The dolphins you are enjoying are being poisoned by Mexico as you watch. Shame on you for challenging rational peaceful activism and the truth. Geeesh.

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 1-28-2011 at 10:37 AM

"Can Rosarito recover? Yes, if it gets back to what it did before they killed the goose that laid the golden egg- offer a close-by, unique travel experience at a great price. Same for real estate. But they can't make a change like that. It's not in them to. jmho joe"

Spot on, it was why many used to choose to come down... not to buy real estate.. but, to cross the border and be into another country... with much less in the way of perfect roads, services, and things like "electricity" "running water" and "shopping"... but, had lots' of beach, along with excellent fishing, surfing, camping and "drinking".. without the hassle of State side BS ....

It's changed... but, agree it could come back... if they get over the BS they were sold on Real Estate being an excellent investment opportunity... rather than a home is a place to just live in.... Enough.. Give me a good cave.. with no plants or granite counter tops....

There are lawyers jokes... think we need a few Real Estate Agent jokes about now... as what a just "cracker jack" job they have down south of the Border, or wait a minute... NOB too... thanks, a lot ... glad you got your 6% for nothing... pound sand...

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 10:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
"Can Rosarito recover? Yes, if it gets back to what it did before they killed the goose that laid the golden egg- offer a close-by, unique travel experience at a great price. Same for real estate. But they can't make a change like that. It's not in them to. jmho joe"

Spot on, it was why many used to choose to come down... not to buy real estate.. but, to cross the border and be into another country... with much less in the way of perfect roads, services, and things like "electricity" "running water" and "shopping"... but, had lots' of beach, along with excellent fishing, surfing, camping and "drinking".. without the hassle of State side BS ....

It's changed... but, agree it could come back... if they get over the BS they were sold on Real Estate being an excellent investment opportunity... rather than a home is a place to just live in.... Enough.. Give me a good cave.. with no plants or granite counter tops....

There are lawyers jokes... think we need a few Real Estate Agent jokes about now... as what a just "cracker jack" job they have down south of the Border, or wait a minute... NOB too... thanks, a lot ... glad you got your 6% for nothing... pound sand...


Realtors get 10% for doing nothing in Mexico Wiley, not 6%. With only 200 transactions in Rosarito Beach last year, even 10% won't keep them all alive. The good news is prices on some developments in Rosarito are being slashed by 30%- sadly that must not be enough. Yeah, I'd like the value of my oceanfront house to increase, but like you said- that's not why we live here. We live here because it is our home, not an investment. What Mexico needs to learn is to clean your house first- before you invite company over.

krafty - 1-28-2011 at 10:48 AM

The leak has been fixed-I just think your negativity does not help ANYTHING

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
The leak has been fixed-I just think your negativity does not help ANYTHING

Go back and read 3000 of my posts. Truth is only negativity to those too blind to see and too lazy to act. The beaches are still closed and will be until at least tomorrow. See- the truth sneaks up on you again... pray for the dolphins and don't eat any clams..

http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Noticias/27012...


"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead


[Edited on 1-28-2011 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 1-28-2011 at 11:09 AM

Stand corrected.... Woooosh... and yes have been watching for a number of years.. and tracking.. for Tijuana, Rosarito, and Ensenada

It's not as bad as Las Vegas yet (57.2% since 2006) ... but of course it will have to adjust .... as the unemployment across the border is the "factor" in my mind... coupled with the very high unemployment in the Tijuana Ensenada Corridor ...

Been back "up" now for two months... and can only say... it's not all "roses and lilacs'" for most of my neighbors ... guy to one side is has his own truck for hauling rock... he has been down for over two years, the other guy across the street... does remodels on commercial real estate (all over the place, does job in HI, NY, FL... and he has not been working either.. the lady also across the street has had one of her children move back, lost job and "condo"... to the south husband and wife... wife is a Biology Teacher in the Saddleback School District.. He is a minister, they hanging on by their teeth.. with help from family.. (Persian) bought at the highest and took out a second to expand their home... to a two story...

Homes are being rented with sometimes as many as four families living in one home... parking becomes a problem...

Strip malls are almost vacant, the large malls a basically "dead" and the small startup's die quickly, and many of the folks that have been in some of the locations decades are being caught with those "high" values turned in by Appraisers which equates to high lease payments.. couple that with no customers to "purchase" in order to make money to pay the lease...

Would hope that the sharing of others "views" on what is going on in Baja, and the States could be taken just as "information" which can be used to make an informed decision on any number of issues... associated with home ownership, the purchase of food, and how to keep safe .... either in Baja or NOB...

One must keep their guard up at all times in life.... to think otherwise is to invite trouble...

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Stand corrected.... Woooosh... and yes have been watching for a number of years.. and tracking.. for Tijuana, Rosarito, and Ensenada

It's not as bad as Las Vegas yet (57.2% since 2006) ... but of course it will have to adjust .... as the unemployment across the border is the "factor" in my mind... coupled with the very high unemployment in the Tijuana Ensenada Corridor ...

Been back "up" now for two months... and can only say... it's not all "roses and lilacs'" for most of my neighbors ... guy to one side is has his own truck for hauling rock... he has been down for over two years, the other guy across the street... does remodels on commercial real estate (all over the place, does job in HI, NY, FL... and he has not been working either.. the lady also across the street has had one of her children move back, lost job and "condo"... to the south husband and wife... wife is a Biology Teacher in the Saddleback School District.. He is a minister, they hanging on by their teeth.. with help from family.. (Persian) bought at the highest and took out a second to expand their home... to a two story...

Homes are being rented with sometimes as many as four families living in one home... parking becomes a problem...

Strip malls are almost vacant, the large malls a basically "dead" and the small startup's die quickly, and many of the folks that have been in some of the locations decades are being caught with those "high" values turned in by Appraisers which equates to high lease payments.. couple that with no customers to "purchase" in order to make money to pay the lease...

Would hope that the sharing of others "views" on what is going on in Baja, and the States could be taken just as "information" which can be used to make an informed decision on any number of issues... associated with home ownership, the purchase of food, and how to keep safe .... either in Baja or NOB...

One must keep their guard up at all times in life.... to think otherwise is to invite trouble...

yeah Wiley, the world economy is brutal for anyone but the top 1%. I wish I had stayed working a few more years but am thankful my houses are paid for, not that I could sell them if I needed to these days. You have been wise and cautious on your approach to Baja real estate following the BajaNomads golden rule: "Never invest more than you can afford to walk away from.'' Don't hold you breath waiting for Baja prices to adjust downward to the right number to make sales happen. Real Estate and Retail will wait it out- as if there is another goose laying golden eggs on her way. There is a set of huge red Talavera pots I have been eyeing for two years on Popotla Blvd. The guy wants $700 for the pair and won't drop his price. He'll go out of business with the $700 price tag on them and wonder what happened. Same with real estate. Stuck on stupid and ignorant of the laws of economics.

I am glued to CNN today watching the Egypt protests. The people hate their dictator and the brutal police- but are cheering and welcoming the Military (who they trust). There are no other political parties there to fill the leadership void either. Egypt tried to block the protests by blocking the internet- and the protesters went back in time to dial-up internet access. WOW!

What a time we live in. Perhaps 2012 is indeed the end of it all.

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 1-28-2011 at 11:56 AM

gnukid... "Everything you learned in kindergarten and beyond is important-do not disregard your instincts."

Think this is where it all starts.. and the individual is formed by a gender structured society...

As for influence of external associations which would influence this process.. one only has to look to the Board of Education>State of California>Federal Government>PCA monies

I could not agree more about "dumbing down of America"... the goals set out for many: Singer, Dancer or Athlete .... we are still not into giving rewards to the scientists, monetary, visibility, respect... rather scientists are still award with "Geek" status.... EXCEPT IN CHINA...

There the CEO's of high tech Companies and Agencies are run by scientists with MBA's not MBA's... telling scientists "how the cow eats the cabbage"... which we see here in the States... think we could all come up with more than one example of "leaders" of our country or appointments to various agency's that lack any qualifications for the SCIENCE which they are making "calls" on... e.i Department of Interior not following permit requirements for the drilling in the Gulf...

Thanks for the "view" gnukid it all helps

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
gnukid... "Everything you learned in kindergarten and beyond is important-do not disregard your instincts."

Think this is where it all starts.. and the individual is formed by a gender structured society...

As for influence of external associations which would influence this process.. one only has to look to the Board of Education>State of California>Federal Government>PCA monies

I could not agree more about "dumbing down of America"... the goals set out for many: Singer, Dancer or Athlete .... we are still not into giving rewards to the scientists, monetary, visibility, respect... rather scientists are still award with "Geek" status.... EXCEPT IN CHINA...

There the CEO's of high tech Companies and Agencies are run by scientists with MBA's not MBA's... telling scientists "how the cow eats the cabbage"... which we see here in the States... think we could all come up with more than one example of "leaders" of our country or appointments to various agency's that lack any qualifications for the SCIENCE which they are making "calls" on... e.i Department of Interior not following permit requirements for the drilling in the Gulf...

Thanks for the "view" gnukid it all helps

I agree Wiley. Obama's SOU address the other night had one point I had not considered about immigration reform. A foreign student overstays his visa after earning an advanced science degree and the current system wants to deport him back home to compete against us. Let's keep the brains here and adjust out immigration policy to make us more competitive in the world, not less. We need people with educations, the rest of them here illegally that are drain to our resources and that do not contribute to our collective future they can deport imho. I don't think Obama said the last part. ;)

Bajahowodd - 1-28-2011 at 01:17 PM

"I agree Wiley. Obama's SOU address the other night had one point I had not considered about immigration reform. A foreign student overstays his visa after earning an advanced science degree and the current system wants to deport him back home to compete against us. Let's keep the brains here and adjust out immigration policy to make us more competitive in the world, not less. We need people with educations, the rest of them here illegally that are drain to our resources and that do not contribute to our collective future they can deport imho. I don't think Obama said the last part."

-Woooosh

Just seems to me that before we had the economic meldtdown and the huge jump in unemployment, there was an almost miniscule opposition to the undocumented population. Not only were they the darlings of corporations and the business community as a whole, because they worked hard and were paid third world wages, with no benefits. But there are myriad studies that demonstrate that illegals were much less likely to avail themselves of emergency rooms and other social safety net programs than were the legal poor, for fear of being deported. I thoroughly agree with the the notion that we need to retain educated foreigners, and even to encourage their citizenship. But I fear there is such a high level of xenophobia abounding right now, that the baby will continue to be thrown out with the bath water.

wessongroup - 1-28-2011 at 01:32 PM

Not sure I would characterize opposition to the undocumented population as "miniscule" rather one of "perception" created by some...


Illegal immigration has long been a problem in the United States, especially since the latter half of the twentieth century.

The origins of illegal immigration date to the late nineteenth century. In 1875, a federal law was passed which prohibited entry of convicts and prostitutes. In 1882 President Chester A. Arthur banned almost all Chinese immigration to the United States, and shortly thereafter barred paupers, criminals and the mentally ill from entering. Although this affected only a small percentage of immigrants, there were now distinctions between legal and illegal immigration. Before this, immigration was barely regulated.

Ellis Island, the New York portal for immigrants, opened in 1892 and became the nation’s premier federal immigration station. New arrivals were required to prove their identities, answer a series of questions, find a friend or relative who could vouch for them, and were scanned for physical ailments. When it ended operation in 1954, Ellis Island had processed over 12 million legal immigrants.

During the large wave of immigration from 1881 to 1920, nearly 23½ million immigrants poured into the United States from all over the world. In 1921, Congress passed a Quota Law that reduced immigration to 357,000 a year and limited the number of immigrants from any one country. In 1924 immigration was reduced further to 160,000 a year, and in 1929, immigration was cut to 157,000 and quotas were again reset based on national origins in the 1920 U.S. Census. The rationale was that these laws would ensure the existing ethnic composition of the country and help assimilate the 15 million southern and eastern Europeans who had entered the previous forty years.

However, the door was left open for Mexicans (who even then were desired by employers for their cheap labor) and northern Europeans. As history would show, this legal immigration led to illegal immigration and foreshadowed today’s debate on these topics. During the 1920s illegal immigration was the subject of heated Congressional debates. Edward H. Dowell, vice-president of the California Federation of Labor, testified before the U.S. Senate Committee on Immigration in February of 1928 about the burden of the unrestricted flow of Mexicans on the state’s taxpayers, prisons, hospitals and American workers’ wages. He estimated that while 67,000 Mexicans entered the U.S. legally the prior year, many times that number entered illegally.

Furthermore, a Los Angeles Times story from April 1926 noted that many of the ranch workers in California’s Imperial Valley entered the U.S. illegally without passing the (then) literacy test and did not pay the $18 entrance fee. In February of 1929, the U.S. House Immigration Committee heard testimony from government officials about problems at the border with both Canada and Mexico, including steps that were taken to eliminate the “visa mill” at Juarez (opposite El Paso), where were found “the most lax conditions imaginable in connection with inspection of persons wishing to enter the United States.” Visas were required for legal residency.

Immigration dropped sharply during the lean years of the Great Depression. After the stock market crashed in 1929, the U.S. tightened visa rules which markedly reduced Mexican immigration. Local, state and federal government officials debated what to do with those already here. Some Mexicans repatriated themselves either voluntarily or under pressure from local welfare officials. Others were deported. Eventually between about 500,000 to 1,000,000 Mexicans left the United States between 1929 and 1939. This was due to deportation, as well as other factors such as the threat of deportation and acute unemployment.

This repatriation began during President Herbert Hoover’s administration and reached its peak in the early 1930s. It also applied to all alien groups, not just Mexicans. Hoover believed they were taking jobs from Americans, and endorsed a vigorous effort to reduce legal and illegal entries and expel “undesirable aliens.” Deportations and repatriations of Mexicans and others decreased (along with legal immigration) during President Franklin Roosevelt’s administration, during the Great Depression, but did not end. In July 1935, for example, Roosevelt ordered a large deportation of alien criminals (such as mail robbers), but exempted Mexican and Canadian criminals due to the fear that they would sneak back in.

Today’s high level of illegal immigration originated during the war years of the early 1940s. Labor shortages caused the federal government to set up a program to import Mexican laborers to work temporarily in agriculture, primary in the Southwest. This was called the Bracero Program. The goal was to import foreign workers (originally thought to number in the hundreds) during agricultural harvest and then encourage them to go home.

Over the next two decades about 4.8 million Mexican workers came into the country and provided cheap labor to many U.S. employers. Although braceros were supposed to be hired only if an adequate number of Americans could not be found, employers preferred the foreign workers who were willing to work for lesser wages. The program finally ended in 1964 due to complaints from unions and Mexican-Americans that these foreigners were taking jobs from them. Not surprisingly, many of the former braceros reentered and worked in the U.S. illegally -- many for the same employers. Illegal immigration increased greatly during the years of the supposed “temporary work” Bracero Program. The Los Angeles Times reported in May 1950 that 21,000 Mexican nationals had “flooded across Mexican border into the United States during April” and complained about the overworked, understaffed border patrolmen and the “the endless wave of line jumpers, unprecedented in the nation’s history.” The argument about jobs “Americans won’t do” was recited by an employer, while the authorities stressed the need to enforce the law.

During President Dwight D. Eisenhower’s first term, it was estimated that illegal Mexican border crossings had grown to about 1 million. Such a massive illegal workforce had a devastating impact on the wages of American workers. Eisenhower, concerned about corruption that resulted from the profits of illegal labor, took decisive action. In 1954 he appointed General Joseph Swing to head the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Shortly thereafter, “Operation *******” was launched. With only 1,075 Border Patrol agents, tens of thousands of illegal aliens were caught and sent back deep into Mexico. Hundreds of thousands more returned to their homeland voluntarily. Illegal immigration had dropped 95% by the end of the 1950s.

But it was not to last, as seen in prior decades, after the 1965 Immigration Act passed, while legal immigration increased sharply, illegal immigration rose right along with it. As the Center for Immigration Studies noted, this increased immigration in part because Congress “shifted the legal preference system to family relations and away from employment needs and immigrant ability.” Senator Edward Kennedy said at the time: “The bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It will not upset the ethnic mix of our society.” However, this bill spurred “chain migration” which fueled illegal immigration, along with a sense of entitlement amongst illegal immigrants. In subsequent decades, Mexico has become the primary source country of both legal and illegal immigration.

Many illegal aliens also use the lure of “birthright citizenship,” (a/k/a “anchor babies”) to circumvent U.S. immigration laws and gain permanent residency, if not citizenship. This is a misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution that grants U.S. citizenship on those born on American soil, including children of illegal aliens. Illegal immigrants know that the odds are low that U.S. immigration authorities will deport them, if they have a child who is an American citizen (and who as a bonus also qualifies for taxpayer-funded benefits).

Since the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, Congress has passed seven amnesties:

1. Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA), 1986: A blanket amnesty for over 2.7 million illegal aliens

2. Section 245(i) Amnesty, 1994: A temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens

3. Section 245(i) Extension Amnesty, 1997: An extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994

4. Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty, 1997: An amnesty for close to one million illegal aliens from Central America

5. Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA), 1998: An amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti

6. Late Amnesty, 2000: An amnesty for some illegal aliens who claim they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty, an estimated 400,000 illegal aliens

7. LIFE Act Amnesty, 2000: A reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty, an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens


The largest of these amnesties was the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) which amnestied about 3 million illegal aliens. This law was supposed to be a compromise -- an attempt to finally limit illegal immigration through strengthened border security and increased immigration enforcement against employers -- combined with amnesty for the millions of illegal workers in the United States. Illegal immigrants who had resided in the U.S. for five years and met other conditions received temporary legal status, which could be later upgraded to citizenship.

President Ronald Reagan approved this “path to citizenship” amnesty due to what was believed to be a relatively small illegal immigrant population. Unlike many current politicians and amnesty proponents, Reagan called this what it was: amnesty. Unfortunately, there was widespread document fraud and the number of illegal aliens seeking amnesty far exceeded expectations. Most importantly, there was no political will to enforce the law against employers. The 1986 IRCA amnesty failed and actually led to millions of more people entering the United States illegally.

While President Bill Clinton made some efforts to combat illegal immigration during the 1990s, the problem remained. In 1996 the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 was passed. Still, leaders from Central American and Caribbean nations relied heavily on untaxed remittances sent back to their countries from the United States, and worried that Clinton would support mass deportations. While at least paying lip service to enforcement of laws, Clinton assured these leaders that there would be no mass deportations. There were about 7 million illegal aliens residing in the U.S. when he left office.

The eight years of President George W. Bush’s administration saw a marked increase in illegal immigration and a drop in immigration enforcement throughout much of his tenure. For example, the number of illegal aliens arrested in workplace cases fell from nearly 3,000 in 1999 to 445 in 2003, with the number of criminal cases against employers during this period falling from 182 to four. Not surprisingly, by 2005, there were an estimated 10-20 million illegal aliens living in the United States. Even at the end of 2007 after the Bush administration’s enforcement crackdown had been underway; only 92 criminal arrests of employers had taken place, in an economy that, according to the Washington Post, includes 6 million businesses that employ more than 7 million illegal foreign workers.

Despite the failure of past amnesties and the fact that these increase illegal immigration, Bush repeatedly pushed mass legalization (amnesty) schemes for illegal immigrants using the well-worn line that they “are doing jobs Americans will not” or “are not” doing. One scheme was the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act 2007 which was defeated by widespread popular opposition.

Today, over 1 million immigrants enter our country legally per year, while the illegal alien population grows by about 500,000 per year. Most of those who violate our borders and enter illegally come from Mexico and other Latin American countries. Only about 6 percent of the illegals come from Canada and Europe. Close to half of all illegal immigrants now residing in the U.S. did not enter illegally but rather overstayed their visas. Just as the federal government has historically failed to secure its borders, it has concurrently failed to closely monitor visa holders.

About 12-20 million illegal aliens currently reside in the United States. California has more illegals than any other state, at about 2.4 million. Others states with high illegal alien populations include Texas, Florida and New York, although many states are now impacted.

Bajahowodd - 1-28-2011 at 01:49 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Immigration_Studies

Don't know what article you were plagiarizing:?::biggrin: But this link is to an organization that is both considered conservative and promotes repatriation of illegals. Their estimate of the current illegal population is way lower than 12-20 million.

wessongroup - 1-28-2011 at 02:06 PM

Well, thats another way of looking at it... isn't it...:O

Wasn't aware a simple cut and paste would be considered MY idea's...

As I didn't claim authorship, rather just googled the subject and found this article.. and cut and pasted, if there are discrepancy in the report I will stand correct on all error's which you find...

As stated before the "perception" as created by some... and gee, big surprise their numbers would be lower... pound sand..

Cypress - 1-28-2011 at 02:30 PM

Bottom Line! The USA has got too many people already. Getting sorta crowded. :biggrin:

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
"I agree Wiley. Obama's SOU address the other night had one point I had not considered about immigration reform. A foreign student overstays his visa after earning an advanced science degree and the current system wants to deport him back home to compete against us. Let's keep the brains here and adjust out immigration policy to make us more competitive in the world, not less. We need people with educations, the rest of them here illegally that are drain to our resources and that do not contribute to our collective future they can deport imho. I don't think Obama said the last part."

-Woooosh

Just seems to me that before we had the economic meldtdown and the huge jump in unemployment, there was an almost miniscule opposition to the undocumented population. Not only were they the darlings of corporations and the business community as a whole, because they worked hard and were paid third world wages, with no benefits. But there are myriad studies that demonstrate that illegals were much less likely to avail themselves of emergency rooms and other social safety net programs than were the legal poor, for fear of being deported. I thoroughly agree with the the notion that we need to retain educated foreigners, and even to encourage their citizenship. But I fear there is such a high level of xenophobia abounding right now, that the baby will continue to be thrown out with the bath water.

The economic world has changed forever. The old rules no longer apply. Growth is optional, change is inevitable. I think most of us have a problem accepting the world of ten years ago is gone forever. Obama gets it. The days of of having a union job for life and retiring with health benefits and a pension you can live on are gone forever. It's very hard for people my age (50's) to accept so much economic change in such a short period of time. I thought I'd be able to do more consulting after my retirement- but that's not the case. People half my age, with half my experience will do the same thing for half the price- and from India no less. I didn't see it coming either. The world is flat now.

I don't know the data about illegal immigrants and health services. I have family living illegally in the USA and they take advantage of every gov't service (housing, human services, food stamps, etc) they can get. Usually it is a fellow Mexican in the office that helps them through the process in Spanish and actually encourages it. That part bugs me and I'll never accept it. But it is what it is.

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by Woooosh]

JoeJustJoe - 1-28-2011 at 03:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
Woosh it seems to me that you are part of the problema-we need to chill the bad news about Rosarito-once again, if you are not selling and dealing in drugs I believe you will be fine-why spread the fear? As far as crossing back, there are several places in Baja that for a couple of bucks you can get a fast track pass if you are not interested in a SENTRI-think it would be wise for the gov./restaurant assoc. to make this option more known. You claim there is no longer incentive to come here-as I write I am looking at the beautiful ocean with frolicking dolphins in front of me-and yes, I live here full time, have done nothing different than we did 10 years ago. Folks pay good money to be by the beach and enjoy the weather, mexican food, graciousness of the local folks-why are YOU here?


I am part of the problem? Chill? I am here because Rosarito is my family' home. You just did the equivalent of telling the Mexicans in the USA to shut their mouths and go back home to Mexico. What a racist comment. The truth I post here is not to scare people, but to bridge the gap between what the media reports and the truth. Why are you afraid of the truth? Everyone has their comfort zones. I'm very happy here, but feel everyone considering a trip to Baja Norte should know what they can expect once they cross into the third world that is of Mexico.

"Chilling" and the philosophy of "manana" are what allowed Mexico to slip back into instability. This is not a country of social activists- Mexicans tend to peek out their windows, not march in the streets. They feels impotent as the WikiLeaks cables point out (and the new Mexican cables released this week only reinforce that). I don't think you understand how important this time is for the survival of Mexico. Mexico has to either step up now, or accept it cannot enforce the rule of law and protect its people. Chilling is the problem here. Why do you think there are 11 million Mexicans in the USA? They pretty much gave up on Mexico. My Mexican family prefers to stay here, fight for the people and create change.

And while you are watching the dolphins play here in Rosarito today, be aware the beaches are closed all the way to TJ because of the large unchecked sewage spills. The dolphins you are enjoying are being poisoned by Mexico as you watch. Shame on you for challenging rational peaceful activism and the truth. Geeesh.

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by Woooosh]



Great post Krafty and I for one agree with you and think that Whooosh should quit whining and go back America if he think Mexico is too dangerous. And that's not racist either. Nobody talked about deporting Whooosh like Americans talk about deporting Mexicans all the time. Maybe Whooosh has Mexican citizenship? If so he should stand tall and talk like a American-Mexican and say Mexico is my home!

Whooosh is starting to sound like those "Alarmist" anti-Mexico bloggers sites I see Whooosh posting at all the time, and he sounds like a frustrated American real estate agent working in Baja. I'm sorry real estate is doing very poorly in Baja. Real Estate isn't too good anywhere especially in Nevada I hear.

Krafty is right the majority of killings in Mexico is drug cartel related, and turf wars caused when the Mexican military takes out a cartel Kingpin and with that cartel weakened other cartel move causing stability issues and turf wars. The cartels are also not going to stand by and see the Mexican government wipe them out, and so they are taking the fight to the streets and engaging in terrorism the headless bodies are all about "shock and awe!"

Americans in Mexico shouldn't worry too much about being killed by cartel members or getting kidnapped. They should worry more about traffic accidents because most of the deaths are caused by accidents in Mexico.

Now if you want to know what's racist it's Whooosh talking about " philosophy of "manana" and how Mexicans only peek out their windows and don't march in the streets.

Right Whooosh all Mexicans have the philosophy of "manana!" :mad: Whoosh also blames the Catholic church for blaming Satan. He wrote that somewhere else. Whooosh don't get me started on the religious right in America and what they believe.

The other complain I often hear is Mexicans don't think of the future only the here and now. I wish they made up their mind. Do the Mexicans just worry about the present or do they run around saying Manana all the time? Well the last Mexican revolution was in 1910 and that wasn't that long ago. When Bush was destroying America I didn't see the Americans rising up in the streets either. In 2006 I saw plenty of Mexicans protesting in the streets of Los Angeles over a racist immigration bill that would have made their parents felons. The protests worked because the GOP backed away from that Congress bill. Perhaps Mexicans don't march in the street because they can't figure out who is the bad guy? The drug cartels or the Mexican government? ( The thing is most Mexicans know their government is corrupt. Americans in the USA for the most part don't know their government is corrupt too.)

BTW there still are plenty of day trippers to places like Tijuana, and the border is as busy as ever as people cross into Mexico and back everyday.

Mexico is still a very safe place to live or visit. There are certain places that are bad, but even places like Tijuana are still relatively safe. There are certain actions like getting involved in narco trafficking that make Mexico very dangerous for you.

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 03:45 PM

Check your meds Joe. I never said Mexico is too dangerous for me, it is well within my comfort zone. All I have said is to tell the truth and let people vote with their feet. That's not alarmist, it is intelligence.

Here's the story about the Catholic Church in Mexico training Exorcists to battle the cartels. You can't make this stuff up...

http://brazilweirdnews.blogspot.com/2011/01/church-prepares-...

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by Woooosh]

woody with a view - 1-28-2011 at 03:51 PM

"Usually it is a fellow Mexican in the office that helps them through the process in Spanish and actually encourages it. That part bugs me and I'll never accept it. But it is what it is."

burns my asss too! just wait until jerry brown doesn't get his utopian $55 billion tax increase this june.

time has come today!
don't get me wrong (or do, if it makes you all wet and squishy) i have plenty of friends that will be impacted. too bad for them. we can't afford this shiet any longer. their country won't stop to watch me die in the streets so why should i?

jaygarcia - 1-28-2011 at 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Now if you want to know what's racist it's Whooosh talking about " philosophy of "manana" and how Mexicans only peek out their windows and don't march in the streets.


I'm not following your logic here. Mexicans are not a race, they are a nationality. This woman is a Mexican:



You seem to be conflating entirely different issues.

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 03:58 PM

If she's Mexican, where's her mustache? (apologies in advance to my Mexican mother in law)

DENNIS - 1-28-2011 at 03:59 PM

JoeJustJoe and Jay Garcia, being one and the same, is boring us with a pseudo dialog.

bajamigo - 1-28-2011 at 04:06 PM

The alter-alter ego allows him to post gratuitous soft porn.

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by bajamigo]

krafty - 1-28-2011 at 04:23 PM

Thanks Just Joe-the fact that Woooosh told a story of killing school age children-was that a rumor? This is how they start. Then you have the usual suspects chiming in, 2 mentioning they haven't been here in over 5 years...gee, I wonder why? People like you scaring the crap out of everyone.......wish you would stop-do you want to quote me crime stats in, say, New Orleans or Miami-? Sure they are horrific. Follow the normal sanity guidelines and you'll be ok, just sayin'......and as far as the "leak" you make it sound as if the whole ocean is polluted because of it-in so ca. there was a leak every other day in Dana Point-of course it does not make it right but you are once again sounding the alarm-and my dolphins are still here.

Bajahowodd - 1-28-2011 at 04:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Well, thats another way of looking at it... isn't it...:O

Wasn't aware a simple cut and paste would be considered MY idea's...

As I didn't claim authorship, rather just googled the subject and found this article.. and cut and pasted, if there are discrepancy in the report I will stand correct on all error's which you find...

As stated before the "perception" as created by some... and gee, big surprise their numbers would be lower... pound sand..


Not sure about the site rules, but I thought attribution to a source was customary. That's all.

DENNIS - 1-28-2011 at 04:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajamigo

The alter-alter ego




Ohhh...yeah. I like that. Every utterance is an echo...of an echo.

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
Thanks Just Joe-the fact that Woooosh told a story of killing school age children-was that a rumor? This is how they start. Then you have the usual suspects chiming in, 2 mentioning they haven't been here in over 5 years...gee, I wonder why? People like you scaring the crap out of everyone.......wish you would stop-do you want to quote me crime stats in, say, New Orleans or Miami-? Sure they are horrific. Follow the normal sanity guidelines and you'll be ok, just sayin'......and as far as the "leak" you make it sound as if the whole ocean is polluted because of it-in so ca. there was a leak every other day in Dana Point-of course it does not make it right but you are once again sounding the alarm-and my dolphins are still here.


Are you insane? Show me the post where "Woooosh told a story of killing school age children". It does not exist. I post as "woooosh" only, on four baja-related sites: BajaNomads, TalkBaja, the Fulano Files and Maggies Madness. Check there too.

BTW- The water in the USA is no less polluted, but two wrongs don't make a right. In the USA the sewaqe infrastructure fails, in Mexico there fails to be adequate sewage infrastructure.

I learned young not to have a war of words with the unarmed, so I won't. geeesh.

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 1-28-2011 at 04:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I thought attribution to a source was customary. That's all.


But not necessary. [Diogenes the Cynic]

woody with a view - 1-28-2011 at 04:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jaygarcia
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Now if you want to know what's racist it's Whooosh talking about " philosophy of "manana" and how Mexicans only peek out their windows and don't march in the streets.


I'm not following your logic here. Mexicans are not a race, they are a nationality. This woman is a Mexican:



You seem to be conflating entirely different issues.


those are men's calves/feet. i've seen them at the bars on revolucion...

[Edited on 1-28-2011 by woody with a view]

JoeJustJoe - 1-28-2011 at 04:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
Thanks Just Joe-the fact that Woooosh told a story of killing school age children-was that a rumor? This is how they start. Then you have the usual suspects chiming in, 2 mentioning they haven't been here in over 5 years...gee, I wonder why? People like you scaring the crap out of everyone.......wish you would stop-do you want to quote me crime stats in, say, New Orleans or Miami-? Sure they are horrific. Follow the normal sanity guidelines and you'll be ok, just sayin'......and as far as the "leak" you make it sound as if the whole ocean is polluted because of it-in so ca. there was a leak every other day in Dana Point-of course it does not make it right but you are once again sounding the alarm-and my dolphins are still here.


Yes shame on Whooosh posing rumors about drug cartels retaliating against little elementary children. Shame on the "AFN" and Maggie Madness too posting crank calls as news!

Whooosh who cares what the Catholic Church says about "Exorcism" and the fight against drug cartels. How is that different from the right-wing Evangelicals in the US fighting for the soul of America by waging a war against same-sex marriage? I would only be concerned if the Mexican Government enlisted Catholics Priests in the "war on drugs" and believed the Priests could win the war by the use of exorcist practices. I know a few ex and current "Nomad" members that need the help of these priests that know how to expel their inner demons.

Whooosh manana. :fire:

Now Jay Garcia,aka Fulano when did I say Mexicans were a race? They should call it a race. My birth Certificate says under race "white" and my parents are Caucasian. That's almost an insult for Latinos, but yes right now being Mexican is a ethnicity or heritage.

Woody it's racist logic. But the logic here is since Mexicans aren't a race then how can it be racist? You see the same logic used by racist when they are degrading Muslims. They say how can it be racist if being Muslim is only a religion? It doesn't really matter it you attack someones ethic heritage or religion. It's still a racial attack against certain kind of people.

BTW Fulano I saw a good write up on you in the "Rodrigo Playground." Wow are you really that sick?

http://rodrigoplayground.blogspot.com/



[Edited on 1-29-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 05:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
Thanks Just Joe-the fact that Woooosh told a story of killing school age children-was that a rumor? This is how they start. Then you have the usual suspects chiming in, 2 mentioning they haven't been here in over 5 years...gee, I wonder why? People like you scaring the crap out of everyone.......wish you would stop-do you want to quote me crime stats in, say, New Orleans or Miami-? Sure they are horrific. Follow the normal sanity guidelines and you'll be ok, just sayin'......and as far as the "leak" you make it sound as if the whole ocean is polluted because of it-in so ca. there was a leak every other day in Dana Point-of course it does not make it right but you are once again sounding the alarm-and my dolphins are still here.


Yes shame on Whooosh posing rumors about drug cartels retaliating against little elementary children. Shame on the "AFN" and Maggie Madness too posting crank calls as news!

Whooosh who cares what the Catholic Church says about "Exorcism" and the fight against drug cartels. How is that different from the right-wing Evangelicals in the US fighting for the soul of America by wages a war against same-sex marriage? I would only be concerned if the Mexican Government enlisted Catholics Priests in the "war on drugs" and believed the Priests could win the war by the use of exorcist practices. I know a few ex and current "Nomad" members that need the help of these priests that know how to expel their inner demons.

Whooosh manana. :fire:

Now Jay Garcia,aka Fulano when did I say Mexicans were a race? They should call it a race. My birth Certificate says under race "white" and my parents are Caucasian. That's almost an insult for Latinos, but yes right now being Mexican is a ethnicity or heritage.

Woody it's racist logic. But the logic here is since Mexicans aren't a race then how can it be racist? You see the same logic used by racist when they are degrading Muslims. They say how can it be racist if being Muslim is only a religion? It doesn't really matter it you attack someones ethic heritage or religion. It's still a racial attack against certain kind of people.

BTW Fulano I saw a good write up on you in the "Rodrigo Playground." Wow are you really that sick?

http://rodrigoplayground.blogspot.com/

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by JoeJustJoe]


Hey Joe. The difference is the USA is a super power and Mexico is a third-world country. When the religious right in the USA spouts off, Americans knows their influence is limited and constrained by laws. When the Mexican church speaks to Mexicans, they believe it. They are used to excuses for everywhere. On the gay rights thing- isn't it interesting Rosarito's Hugo Torres rolled out the welcome wagon for gays as an untapped tourism income source and look how far that went once the word got out. Everyone in the GOM, and the Mexican Catholic Church of course- came down on it hard and quashed it. Super power-vs- third world. It is what it is.

krafty - 1-28-2011 at 05:17 PM

No I am not insane, Woosh-on this post you said Narcos threaten to kill school age children-do not buy into this bs and spread the fear. What do you get out of that, and do you accomplish anything? There is enough crazy talk going on without you adding fuel to the fire

DENNIS - 1-28-2011 at 05:20 PM

Woooosh......Why???

Bajahowodd - 1-28-2011 at 05:26 PM

A few observations-

On a personal note and although I don't know him, I have a huge amount of simpatico for Wooosh in that if I had the same set of circumstances and opportunities, I would have also doubled-down on a beachfront home in Baja. It has to be unnerving to sit there and witness the past few years,

Second, regarding the Catholic church, whose influence actually has been waning in Mexico recently, although the alternative seems to be the fundamentaist, evangelical Christian types ( choose your poison), in my opinion, so much of the Mexican culture; much of what attracts so many of us to Baja and Mexico is the influence of the Catholic church. I'm talking about what encourages a humble, welcoming, and hard working culture.

An interesting contrast would be the same church in Europe. The difference is that Europeans endured not only two world wars, but a partitioning of their land, with an atheist driven political movement that imbued itself into the culture. Today's Europe finds very low rates of church attendance, especially among those who grew up after the second war. Seems to me that Mexico is an exemplar of what Europe was pre WWI.

I kinda wonder how much less attractive Mexico may be to the NOB folks were it not for the pervasive influence of the Catholic church.

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 05:31 PM

no. You said I told a story about the killing of school children. That is simply not true. An once you post a lie- the rest of your posts mean nothing.

The people of Rosarito lived in fear that day for their children and the AFN, Frontera and others were right to report it. You would have dropped your kid off at that school and hoped for the best? The people of Rosarito have seen the hanging bodies off the PeMex bridge, they know what the cartels are capable of and Rosarito is becoming more active for the cartels, not less. The people hide in their houses in fear today while the Military patrols the streets of Rosarito. The police are trusted by no one, especially not by the Military. Drive through Rosarito on what should be a busy weekend and my case is made. Not even the Rosaritenses are out and about... "It's too hot" they say. I live here with the people, not in a gated community. My neighbors are doctors, school teachers as well as narcos and I know what is going on here all too well. I do feel badly for the Mexican people but it's up to them to fix it. I'm just making sure the truth is out there for those who choose to read it. After all, the Gringo Gazette got run out of town for telling the truth and no one has dared to replace it- well, except Maggie perhaps.

JoeJustJoe - 1-28-2011 at 05:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
Thanks Just Joe-the fact that Woooosh told a story of killing school age children-was that a rumor? This is how they start. Then you have the usual suspects chiming in, 2 mentioning they haven't been here in over 5 years...gee, I wonder why? People like you scaring the crap out of everyone.......wish you would stop-do you want to quote me crime stats in, say, New Orleans or Miami-? Sure they are horrific. Follow the normal sanity guidelines and you'll be ok, just sayin'......and as far as the "leak" you make it sound as if the whole ocean is polluted because of it-in so ca. there was a leak every other day in Dana Point-of course it does not make it right but you are once again sounding the alarm-and my dolphins are still here.


Yes shame on Whooosh posing rumors about drug cartels retaliating against little elementary children. Shame on the "AFN" and Maggie Madness too posting crank calls as news!

Whooosh who cares what the Catholic Church says about "Exorcism" and the fight against drug cartels. How is that different from the right-wing Evangelicals in the US fighting for the soul of America by wages a war against same-sex marriage? I would only be concerned if the Mexican Government enlisted Catholics Priests in the "war on drugs" and believed the Priests could win the war by the use of exorcist practices. I know a few ex and current "Nomad" members that need the help of these priests that know how to expel their inner demons.

Whooosh manana. :fire:

Now Jay Garcia,aka Fulano when did I say Mexicans were a race? They should call it a race. My birth Certificate says under race "white" and my parents are Caucasian. That's almost an insult for Latinos, but yes right now being Mexican is a ethnicity or heritage.

Woody it's racist logic. But the logic here is since Mexicans aren't a race then how can it be racist? You see the same logic used by racist when they are degrading Muslims. They say how can it be racist if being Muslim is only a religion? It doesn't really matter it you attack someones ethic heritage or religion. It's still a racial attack against certain kind of people.

BTW Fulano I saw a good write up on you in the "Rodrigo Playground." Wow are you really that sick?

http://rodrigoplayground.blogspot.com/

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by JoeJustJoe]


Hey Joe. The difference is the USA is a super power and Mexico is a third-world country. When the religious right in the USA spouts off, Americans knows their influence is limited and constrained by laws. When the Mexican church speaks to Mexicans, they believe it. They are used to excuses for everywhere. On the gay rights thing- isn't it interesting Rosarito's Hugo Torres rolled out the welcome wagon for gays as an untapped tourism income source and look how far that went once the word got out. Everyone in the GOM, and the Mexican Catholic Church of course- came down on it hard and quashed it. Super power-vs- third world. It is what it is.


Jesus Christ I hate it when I hear Americans refer to Mexico as a 3rd world country. Mexico is not a 3rd world country and shouldn't be compared to some poor African country. Mexico does have some 3rd world elements to it, but so does the US, and Mexico is still a very poor country, but not when you compare it to other Latin American countries. Mexico is an emerging market and has a first world economy when you look at it's GNP where it's ranked in the top 15, and it's stock market has performed better for years especially during the dark day of the Bush administration.

But I think I know what you mean and the Catholic church has a great influence over Mexico but don't make the mistake and think all or most Mexican care what the Catholic church say. Mexico is more progressive now than the USA in social issues like same-sex marriage, and "zones of tolerance" thought out Mexico. Gay bars were popping up all over Tijuana turning the downturn in the economy on both sides of the border. ( I don't think those bars attracked the gays on the US side, but it has the potential too.)

You should also beware how much influence the the religious right has over the GOP and there is little difference between the Tea Party" and the Religious right in America. It's all about going backward and living in the dark ages for many in the Mexican catholic church and the religious right in America that also has great influence over one major political party the GOP. The Catholic church owns the PAN party in Mexico.



[Edited on 1-29-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 05:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Woooosh......Why???

OK Joe- second world, certainly no first world super-power. Can we compromise of third-rate then, instead of third-world? :P

Why what Dennis? If you are talking about cultural differences- the answer is circumstance. The American Revolution created a USA free of the influences and oppression of England and built itself in just 200 years to be the worlds super-power. The Mexican Revolution embedded the corrupt ways of the Spanish and the people have never been able to free themselves from that. Very simplistic- but it's night and day. Now they are paying for their complacency.

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 1-28-2011 at 05:43 PM

Woooosh... think he means you know WHO.. :lol::lol:

and I agree on your take of Mexico's problems ... past, current and future.... at this time...

Woooosh coming home from the store... :lol::lol:



[Edited on 1-29-2011 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 1-28-2011 at 05:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Woooosh......Why???

OK Joe- second world, certainly no first world super-power. :P

Why what Dennis? If you are talking about cultural differences- the answer is circumstance. The American Revolution created a USA free of the influences and oppression of England and built itself in just 200 years to be the worlds super-power. The Mexican Revolution embedded the corrupt ways of the Spanish and the people have never been able to free themselves from that. Very simplistic- but it's night and day. Now they are paying for their complacency.

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by Woooosh]



That's not what Dennis means. Dennis feels there is only a certain type of "Nomad" member that should be here, and certain kinds of members should be discouraged or even kicked out of the "Nomad" site. Well I'm glad most members don't think they are so self righteous that someone like a Just Joe can't post here.

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 05:59 PM

Dennis will tell me what he means. He is one person, with one name- and I can wait... unless you are speaking for him now too Joe.

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 06:12 PM

tic tic tic

DENNIS - 1-28-2011 at 06:14 PM

Woooosh......You KNOW why. Jizz Joe thinks he know why, but he doesn't know squat....about me or anything else. He wallows in pimp mentality.

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 06:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Woooosh......You KNOW why. Jizz Joe thinks he know why, but he doesn't know squat....about me or anything else. He wallows in pimp mentality.

Well, they do what they do. I should know better than to engage in mischief with these multi- personality trolls, but the people of Egypt have (for today) inspired me to challenge the ugly obstacles to change within Mexico.

DENNIS - 1-28-2011 at 06:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
I should know better than to engage in mischief with these multi- personality trolls,


And....that's the WHY. I knew you knew.

elgatoloco - 1-28-2011 at 06:36 PM

Thanks woosh. I appreciate the level headed viewpoint. My family has had a house in Baja Norte for 50 years. We all still go down, just not as much, and we are always vigilant. It has been a few years since I had the oppurtunity or desire to hand make a map for friends on how to get to Puerto Nuevo or La Fonda or elsewhere, these days if someone is up for the adventure they can ride along with me and I know it will be good times. Things are not the same but once you get on the porch overlooking the ocean with a cold beverage in hand it's still glorius. Keep on keeping on.

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 07:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by elgatoloco
Thanks woosh. I appreciate the level headed viewpoint. My family has had a house in Baja Norte for 50 years. We all still go down, just not as much, and we are always vigilant. It has been a few years since I had the oppurtunity or desire to hand make a map for friends on how to get to Puerto Nuevo or La Fonda or elsewhere, these days if someone is up for the adventure they can ride along with me and I know it will be good times. Things are not the same but once you get on the porch overlooking the ocean with a cold beverage in hand it's still glorius. Keep on keeping on.

Thanks. I do hope Mexico get's this under control so we can have nothing to gripe about but warm beer and clouds at sunset. My Yankee friends with kids have stopped coming down entirely. My family NOB got to see the Baja I wanted them to see. They all truly loved it, but are not in a hurry to return. My family from Torreon now comes here to stay more often for some reason. My old surf buds still don't give a day trip visit here a second thought. Everyone has their own comfort levels but it is all very sad for everyone. The narcos had no right to steal the lives of the Mexican people. None. It must be hard to have 50 years invested in Mexico and see recent events take the hopes of a whole generation away though.

elgatoloco - 1-28-2011 at 07:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by elgatoloco
Thanks woosh. I appreciate the level headed viewpoint. My family has had a house in Baja Norte for 50 years. We all still go down, just not as much, and we are always vigilant. It has been a few years since I had the oppurtunity or desire to hand make a map for friends on how to get to Puerto Nuevo or La Fonda or elsewhere, these days if someone is up for the adventure they can ride along with me and I know it will be good times. Things are not the same but once you get on the porch overlooking the ocean with a cold beverage in hand it's still glorius. Keep on keeping on.

Thanks. I do hope Mexico get's this under control so we can have nothing to gripe about but warm beer and clouds at sunset. My Yankee friends with kids have stopped coming down entirely. My family NOB got to see the Baja I wanted them to see. They all truly loved it, but are not in a hurry to return. My family from Torreon now comes here to stay more often for some reason. My old surf buds still don't give a day trip visit here a second thought. Everyone has their own comfort levels but it is all very sad for everyone. The narcos had no right to steal the lives of the Mexican people. None. It must be hard to have 50 years invested in Mexico and see recent events take the hopes of a whole generation away though.


We feel badly for the Mexican people who own the taco stands,restaurants,mercados and the like that we have frequented over the years. We still get to head home at the end of the weekend. We always thought we would lose the house to the ocean as it sits 20 feet above the sand. It's still there and we will we still enjoy it. It is different though. My folks bought the place for all of $1,200.00 for gosh sakes. We consider ourselves to be very very fortunate for all the great experiences over the last five decades. Hopefully we can continue.

JoeJustJoe - 1-28-2011 at 07:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Woooosh......You KNOW why. Jizz Joe thinks he know why, but he doesn't know squat....about me or anything else. He wallows in pimp mentality.

Well, they do what they do. I should know better than to engage in mischief with these multi- personality trolls, but the people of Egypt have (for today) inspired me to challenge the ugly obstacles to change within Mexico.


I'll have you know I only use one handle here, and it's Joe, Just Joe. It's you Woooosh who engages in multi-personality trolls and I have called you out for it too. But you seem to only care about # number 1. You will never go to bat for someone else. Lessons from your grandfather I suppose.

Dennis is a self-righteous blowhard who once threatened to quit the site if I was allowed to still post. Well I'm still here, and Dennis hasn't carried through on his promise of depriving other Nomad members of his presence and posts. Since I been here Dennis has been flinging false allegations about me starting with that I'm Mexicorn and ending my name is Garcia who thinks like a pimp. Lucky I'm in a good mood today, and don't feel like insulting anybody back today.


Whooosh Mexicans aren't hiding in their houses out of fear of the Mexican cartels. You yourself admitted again that you don't feel Mexico is that dangerous and it's within your comfort zone. Make up your mind?

Whooosh wrote:
--
Gringo Gazette got run out of town for telling the truth and no one has dared to replace it- well, except Maggie perhaps.
----

I'm having trouble respecting your views if you held the "Gringo Gazette" in high regard. Thank God they ran that crazy women out of town! Maggie isn't too far behind her in the insane department, and the degree of "alarmist" stories. But I still like Maggie and have a thing for her.

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

DENNIS - 1-28-2011 at 07:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
But I still like Maggie and have a thing for her.



I like her too, but I'll stop short of having a "thing" for her. Maybe you could get her a job at Adelita's. :lol::lol:

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 08:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
But I still like Maggie and have a thing for her.


I like her too, but I'll stop short of having a "thing" for her. Maybe you could get her a job at Adelita's. :lol::lol:

Magge's da bomb. You should try the recipes she throws in once in a while. She is the sole source of Rosarito news in English and it takes a lot to do that day after day with all the haters after her. I've never met her, but we have a mutual friend who makes sure we play nice together. :)

Is there no end to the word twisting this Jizz Joe does? I have not said I feel Mexico is safe now, just that the current level of crime is within my own comfort level. We've been through two kidnap attempts, a stolen truck and an armed carjack attempt- and I'm still not out of my comfort zone here. I'm a Ct Yankee, and a revolutionary family... not sure I know how to run and too old to die young anyways. And there I go playing with the rabid troll again... I do know better, but calling Joe out on his lies and distortions is just so easy.

I'm not a tourist visiting San Diego from Kansas who reads "Baja Beckons- It's safe and it's close" and thinks he'll just pile the family into the rental car and head down here for some lobster. That's the people I worry about- the ones who don't know to be vigilant and watch their backs. The only way tourists can determine their own comfort level is to have access to the truth. It's that simple.


[Edited on 1-29-2011 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 1-28-2011 at 10:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
The leak has been fixed-I just think your negativity does not help ANYTHING

Hey Krafty- Rosarito Norte to Playas is closed for yet another week. They are telling people to not even touch the sand now. Yup- all fixed. This is a Public Serice Announcement only- nothing negative intended. If you and Joe are both Mexicans you can go clamming. (Non Mexicans aren't permitted to take clams or shellfish). If not build a sand castle and pour your "cold beverage" on yourself as a disinfectant. :P

http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Noticias/28012...

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by Woooosh]

JoeJustJoe - 1-29-2011 at 02:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
But I still like Maggie and have a thing for her.


I like her too, but I'll stop short of having a "thing" for her. Maybe you could get her a job at Adelita's. :lol::lol:

Magge's da bomb. You should try the recipes she throws in once in a while. She is the sole source of Rosarito news in English and it takes a lot to do that day after day with all the haters after her. I've never met her, but we have a mutual friend who makes sure we play nice together. :)

Is there no end to the word twisting this Jizz Joe does? I have not said I feel Mexico is safe now, just that the current level of crime is within my own comfort level. We've been through two kidnap attempts, a stolen truck and an armed carjack attempt- and I'm still not out of my comfort zone here. I'm a Ct Yankee, and a revolutionary family... not sure I know how to run and too old to die young anyways. And there I go playing with the rabid troll again... I do know better, but calling Joe out on his lies and distortions is just so easy.

I'm not a tourist visiting San Diego from Kansas who reads "Baja Beckons- It's safe and it's close" and thinks he'll just pile the family into the rental car and head down here for some lobster. That's the people I worry about- the ones who don't know to be vigilant and watch their backs. The only way tourists can determine their own comfort level is to have access to the truth. It's that simple.


[Edited on 1-29-2011 by Woooosh]


Oh excuse me for misunderstanding you Woooosh and I doubt anybody could fault me because it's a little confusing. Because on one hand you're in hysterics about the danger in Mexico or rather the Baja area, but at the same time you are personally not scared.

So let me get this straight Woooosh Your only concern for the blind tourists from places like Kansas who come to Baja to eat a nice lobster dinner and see a few sights, but are oblivious to the dead bodies all over the Baja area along with a few bodies hanging from bridges. Damn news blackouts not letting Dorothy and toto see the dangers of cartel violence! Oh yeah you're also concerned of the Mexican locals in the grips over fear of cartel violence and spend their days peaking out the window and not daring to go outside.

But you Whooosh are some type of tough guy in the mold of Mr Bill, and you are a Ct Yankee from a revolutionary family who has faced kidnappings, stolen trucks, and even armed carjackings, but they could do the worst to you, and you still aren't out of your comfort zone?

Damn Whooosh you sound like you're ready to take on the drug cartels at high noon at the Mexican O.K. Corral. Bring Them On!

My feats of facing danger pale in comparison. Lets see a little over a year ago two Rothweilers attacked me and my little Terrier/ Poodle mix, but we fought them off till help came. Could you believe the dog's own didn't even say he was sorry? I got him in big trouble. I had three cars stolen in my life time, and once my daughter's ex boyfriend now a convicted felon for attempted murder wanted to see my daughter in the middle of the night, and he tried to exchange insults with me, and when my insults were better he wanted to engage me, but before that could happen the cops came and took him away. Later the next day I found his weapon he threw away that could have dented my head pretty good, and now even a liberal like me has a gun now.

Rarely do things happen to me when I visit Mexico. After hearing all these war stories about Mexico. I often tell myself how did I manage to make it back alive or without incident? These stories tend to instill fear in others, but when you are actually in Mexico. It's not scary at all. It's the same as it's always been.

Things happen everywhere, and when I visit Mexico I don't see fear on anybody's face. Life goes on. Most people in the US have heard of the cartel violence, and most keep away from the Baja area, because of he few stories they heard. There is no need to shock them over and over again about the same type of stories about drug cartel violence.

wessongroup - 1-29-2011 at 09:09 AM

JOe, not understanding.... NOW there is something of an understatement....

And JOe, ya don't live there.... so any "thoughts" you may have about crime in Rosarito is a little removed from reality...

As for me, and the City of Rosarito... lived the last year in El Pescador and used Rosarito all the time for auto repair, and for shopping for food... was in traffic by McDonalds when some guy was offed, cars pulled up blocked his movement, then a guy gets out and "click bang".... was sitting about 150 yards from where they shot the new commander of the police for Rosarito Municipality ... last year with AK-47s .. they just peeled out going south and then jumped on RD 2000 to get back to TJ as quickly as possible... aaahhhhh they never caught the two guys... then new Commander was given a nice "salute" on his way out... two dug busts plus a bust on smuggling people too... right where we were living, I could watch divers going for "packages" in the morning going which would be going North... to Popotola along with the people.. after 8 or 9 months ... the bi-weekly visits by the truck load of troops with body armor and with rifles "locked and loaded".. stopped.. and then we had permanent walk through's on a daily basis .....

And, I wasn't scared once the whole time spent in Baja... it, "life" in Baja... has always has been a hard ... Baja is beautiful, but, like the bougainvillea .... with thorns ... well at least for the past 60 years or so that I'm aware of....

And JOe, it's not all that hard... try a little harder..

Woooosh - 1-29-2011 at 10:41 AM

I didn't know Joe wasn't living down here either Wiley. I don't know how people living far away can judge and question what you and I see with our eyes. Don't blame Joe for not knowing the current situation. There is no way to find out the truth unless we (and Maggie) tell it. I think most people find it hard to believe people like you and me would stay here if things are really this bad. You Wiley were wise to not dive into buying a house here last year and are now headed back north. But for me, I made the decision to live out my life and die here before the violence came. Thankfully we built a very secure cement block house and our large Mexican family is always present. We don't stand out as non-Mexicans and the local cholos know we "are not alone" as they say down here.

And yes Joe, I am actually going to die here although my CT Yankee family hopes it is from natural causes. When we built this house in Rosarito, I interred the ashes of my parents in the pool fountains because they loved the Mexico they saw here in 1995, the Puerto Nuevo lobster dinners and putzing around the artisan shops of Popotla in Rosarito. They would still be happy I live here now with our big Mexican family around me, but sad for us at the same time. We all thought I was ahead of the curve and that Rosarito would grow and thrive. I did too until 2008 or so. I din't put all my eggs in one basket so I still have a home stateside, but home is where your family and the love is- not necessarily where you feel safe.

I won't kid you, my Mexican family was not all that supportive at first. Like most Mexicans they were tired of fighting a system stacked against them. They watch me fight for the beach for their people, and for access for the disabled and at fist were critical that I was just throwing my money away. But now they see it differently. I overheard my sister-in-law telling a neighbor how much joy she got watching the disabled people use the beach we fight to protect. I think they understand this CT Yankee gabacho now and are proud of what the whole family is doing to make one aspect of Rosarito better for everyone- even with all the bad things happening around us. So I am here, in my comfort zone and not leaving- even after I am dust in the wind.

Why do you hate that so much?

krafty - 1-29-2011 at 10:42 AM

thanks for the heads up Woooosh re: the water-and I will stay away from the clams for awhile.

Woooosh - 1-29-2011 at 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
thanks for the heads up Woooosh re: the water-and I will stay away from the clams for awhile.

Ok Krafty- Didn't mean to thrash on you so hard and let's both not feed the trolls going forward. :)

The clams are still fine if you cook them completely. I usually stuff and bake a dozen or so every Saturday. Sometimes I get them from Popotla, but ofter the neighbors will dig some out front of the house for me.

Woooosh Baked Clams: (CT Yankee style)

one pound bacon, one large yellow onion and three large Jalapenos- all chopped fine. Fry the bacon, onions and pepper until soft. Put the clams in the freezer a half hour or so- they will open a bit on their own. Open the clams with a knife, cutting through the muscles. Rinse them carefully of sand while still in the opened shell. Removed all the clam meat and muscle and reserve the clam juice. Chop the clam meat. Take the bacon mixture out of the pan, add four tablespoons of butter and fry the clams in the butter/bacon fat. Once the clams are cooked add the bacon, onion and pepper mix back into the clams. Add the clam juice, one beaten egg, and a teaspoon of Old Bay. Toast a couple English Muffins and then put them in a food processor to make bread crumbs. Mix the crumbs into the other ingredients. Scoop the mixture into the half clam shells and wrap each one in foil. Bake for 30 minutes at 350.

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by Woooosh]

krafty - 1-29-2011 at 11:18 AM

Boy that sounds delish-will try it-I grew up on the GreatSouth Bay in New York and we used to go dig steamers a couple times a week-we would have a bucket full in about 2 minutes-I fear those days are gone-do you ever buy them at Commercial or Vinces? I always have a concern as to how long they have been hanging around-

JoeJustJoe - 1-29-2011 at 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
JOe, not understanding.... NOW there is something of an understatement....

And JOe, ya don't live there.... so any "thoughts" you may have about crime in Rosarito is a little removed from reality...

As for me, and the City of Rosarito... lived the last year in El Pescador and used Rosarito all the time for auto repair, and for shopping for food... was in traffic by McDonalds when some guy was offed, cars pulled up blocked his movement, then a guy gets out and "click bang".... was sitting about 150 yards from where they shot the new commander of the police for Rosarito Municipality ... last year with AK-47s .. they just peeled out going south and then jumped on RD 2000 to get back to TJ as quickly as possible... aaahhhhh they never caught the two guys... then new Commander was given a nice "salute" on his way out... two dug busts plus a bust on smuggling people too... right where we were living, I could watch divers going for "packages" in the morning going which would be going North... to Popotola along with the people.. after 8 or 9 months ... the bi-weekly visits by the truck load of troops with body armor and with rifles "locked and loaded".. stopped.. and then we had permanent walk through's on a daily basis .....

And, I wasn't scared once the whole time spent in Baja... it, "life" in Baja... has always has been a hard ... Baja is beautiful, but, like the bougainvillea .... with thorns ... well at least for the past 60 years or so that I'm aware of....

And JOe, it's not all that hard... try a little harder..


I use to rent a place in Rosarito Beach, but we weren't using it enough, and when my kids reached their teen years we got rid of the place, and there were a few other reasons.

But since then I have been going to Tijuana for years after work, and I hang out in the worst areas of the city, and I walk around likes Tijuana is Disneyland. In fact during the Rhon's rein I use to see gringos get shaken down for bribes all the time, and just use to walk by shaking my head.

I don't buy the part that Whooosh is just concerned for others. Whooosh doesn't even defend fellow Nomad members who come under attack online from his Friend Fulano. Maggie for weeks was upset at Whooosh for not defending her against Baja members who bashed her here.

My feelings if it's that bad living in Baja for Whooosh, Maggie, and a few others is move back to the USA. It's that simple. Otherwise I think they are just whining hypocrites.

Mexico is not that dangerous for the average Mexican or American expats.

Woooosh - 1-29-2011 at 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
Boy that sounds delish-will try it-I grew up on the GreatSouth Bay in New York and we used to go dig steamers a couple times a week-we would have a bucket full in about 2 minutes-I fear those days are gone-do you ever buy them at Commercial or Vinces? I always have a concern as to how long they have been hanging around-

I used to buy at Vince's and no doubt they are fresh. But why pay retail? Venture down to the sand at Popotla and get them fresh and cheap. The fisherman clean the fish and lay them out on tables, along with the clams, abalone and few "monstros" (king crab). You need to be early to get the big King Crabs ($5!!) - I'm usually too late...

Yeah, we used to clam on the CT shore too. Steamers, Quohogs, Cherry Stones and razor clams while always being careful not to step on a horseshoe crab. We always ate the cherry stones raw with a little horseradish and ketchup. What I really miss are the whole belly fried clams that you need the steamers for. Can't find those soft-shelled clams here.

Woooosh - 1-29-2011 at 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
JOe, not understanding.... NOW there is something of an understatement....

And JOe, ya don't live there.... so any "thoughts" you may have about crime in Rosarito is a little removed from reality...

As for me, and the City of Rosarito... lived the last year in El Pescador and used Rosarito all the time for auto repair, and for shopping for food... was in traffic by McDonalds when some guy was offed, cars pulled up blocked his movement, then a guy gets out and "click bang".... was sitting about 150 yards from where they shot the new commander of the police for Rosarito Municipality ... last year with AK-47s .. they just peeled out going south and then jumped on RD 2000 to get back to TJ as quickly as possible... aaahhhhh they never caught the two guys... then new Commander was given a nice "salute" on his way out... two dug busts plus a bust on smuggling people too... right where we were living, I could watch divers going for "packages" in the morning going which would be going North... to Popotola along with the people.. after 8 or 9 months ... the bi-weekly visits by the truck load of troops with body armor and with rifles "locked and loaded".. stopped.. and then we had permanent walk through's on a daily basis .....

And, I wasn't scared once the whole time spent in Baja... it, "life" in Baja... has always has been a hard ... Baja is beautiful, but, like the bougainvillea .... with thorns ... well at least for the past 60 years or so that I'm aware of....

And JOe, it's not all that hard... try a little harder..


I use to rent a place in Rosarito Beach, but we weren't using it enough, and when my kids reached their teen years we got rid of the place, and there were a few other reasons.

But since then I have been going to Tijuana for years after work, and I hang out in the worst areas of the city, and I walk around likes Tijuana is Disneyland. In fact during the Rhon's rein I use to see gringos get shaken down for bribes all the time, and just use to walk by shaking my head.

I don't buy the part that Whooosh is just concerned for others. Whooosh doesn't even defend fellow Nomad members who come under attack online from his Friend Fulano. Maggie for weeks was upset at Whooosh for not defending her against Baja members who bashed her here.

My feelings if it's that bad living in Baja for Whooosh, Maggie, and a few others is move back to the USA. It's that simple. Otherwise I think they are just whining hypocrites.

Mexico is not that dangerous for the average Mexican or American expats.


Seems like your meds are doing better today. Welcome back. My last post says it all... home is where your family is, not where you feel safe. I'm backed into a corner I designed on my own. Would I do it again today. nope.

It did take Maggie a while to understand I felt she didn't need my help defending herself. She is one tough cookie and was doing battle with Nomads years before I came along. Bloggers are out there in their own world imho. BajaNomads is a community message board, it is much more civil, and I use different rules. I really like the variety of Fulano's posts but too many people post comments there as "anonymous" and I don't pay attention to what people say if they don't want their name on it. It's hard to tell who is who over there- let alone stick your neck out for someone. Bloggers choose which comments they put up- so you are never 100% sure you have the whole story and you could easily fall into a troll-trap.

JoeJustJoe - 1-29-2011 at 04:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
JOe, not understanding.... NOW there is something of an understatement....

And JOe, ya don't live there.... so any "thoughts" you may have about crime in Rosarito is a little removed from reality...

As for me, and the City of Rosarito... lived the last year in El Pescador and used Rosarito all the time for auto repair, and for shopping for food... was in traffic by McDonalds when some guy was offed, cars pulled up blocked his movement, then a guy gets out and "click bang".... was sitting about 150 yards from where they shot the new commander of the police for Rosarito Municipality ... last year with AK-47s .. they just peeled out going south and then jumped on RD 2000 to get back to TJ as quickly as possible... aaahhhhh they never caught the two guys... then new Commander was given a nice "salute" on his way out... two dug busts plus a bust on smuggling people too... right where we were living, I could watch divers going for "packages" in the morning going which would be going North... to Popotola along with the people.. after 8 or 9 months ... the bi-weekly visits by the truck load of troops with body armor and with rifles "locked and loaded".. stopped.. and then we had permanent walk through's on a daily basis .....

And, I wasn't scared once the whole time spent in Baja... it, "life" in Baja... has always has been a hard ... Baja is beautiful, but, like the bougainvillea .... with thorns ... well at least for the past 60 years or so that I'm aware of....

And JOe, it's not all that hard... try a little harder..


I use to rent a place in Rosarito Beach, but we weren't using it enough, and when my kids reached their teen years we got rid of the place, and there were a few other reasons.

But since then I have been going to Tijuana for years after work, and I hang out in the worst areas of the city, and I walk around likes Tijuana is Disneyland. In fact during the Rhon's rein I use to see gringos get shaken down for bribes all the time, and just use to walk by shaking my head.

I don't buy the part that Whooosh is just concerned for others. Whooosh doesn't even defend fellow Nomad members who come under attack online from his Friend Fulano. Maggie for weeks was upset at Whooosh for not defending her against Baja members who bashed her here.

My feelings if it's that bad living in Baja for Whooosh, Maggie, and a few others is move back to the USA. It's that simple. Otherwise I think they are just whining hypocrites.

Mexico is not that dangerous for the average Mexican or American expats.


Seems like your meds are doing better today. Welcome back. My last post says it all... home is where your family is, not where you feel safe. I'm backed into a corner I designed on my own. Would I do it again today. nope.

It did take Maggie a while to understand I felt she didn't need my help defending herself. She is one tough cookie and was doing battle with Nomads years before I came along. Bloggers are out there in their own world imho. BajaNomads is a community message board, it is much more civil, and I use different rules. I really like the variety of Fulano's posts but too many people post comments there as "anonymous" and I don't pay attention to what people say if they don't want their name on it. It's hard to tell who is who over there- let alone stick your neck out for someone. Bloggers choose which comments they put up- so you are never 100% sure you have the whole story and you could easily fall into a troll-trap.


Maggie can take care of herself and she swears like a drunken sailor. But she is banned from this site, and she was looking for you Whooosh for a little support from the arrows of current Nomad members, but you were nowhere to be found Whooosh. Not that you owe Maggie anything, but I understood her frustrations about you.....her friend. Later she forgave you when you apologized.

I don't have a problem with Maggie because she is posting what she really believes, although I consider her an "Alarmist." and probably frustrated in other parts of her life.

I do have problems with your other friend Whooosh. Fulano's blog is pure hate. It's anti-Mexico, anti-Mexican, anti-Muslim, and anti-Baja Nomad. The guy spends his waking hours searching the internet about violent stories about Mexico in a vain attempt to keep others from traveling to Mexico. Now I could see covering stories in the Baja area, but this guy looks for stories even a thousand miles away, and then puts then in the blog to increase the so-called level of danger. That would be like me having a blog covering San Diego, and reporting all violence in San Diego, and even including muggings from NYC, Detroit, Compton and all the cities with violence.

It's nothing but bash bash bash! Then you have the non stop racism on that blog. Where you'll see statement like Mexico is a country run by people with a 6th grade education, and then some ex banned Nomad members chime in with the really KKK type racist posts, and then here comes Whooosh legitimizing that blog with well thought out comments about the current situation in Mexico.

Then there is the non stop attacks on Nomad members. Having opinions on others is fine, even if it's a negative opinion, but the 'outing' of personal information goes beyond pale, but it doesn't seem to bother Whooosh in the least.

Whooosh do you know what a hate site is? In case you don't take a look at this one "Vanguard" news. Guess what? They sometimes even have interesting stories, but it's a hate site, and deserves no support.

http://www.vnnforum.com/index.php?s=850753e482f403618b63d153...

[Edited on 1-29-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

wessongroup - 1-29-2011 at 04:16 PM

Maggie is ok in my book, has provided me with factual information on a number of occasions...

Just don't know where she gets the time... to write all ....

captkw - 1-29-2011 at 06:01 PM

CLAM"S,#$%^&&^% did sombody say CLAM"S I like the pink one's!! 00ppss! I better sit down the tequila double ooopppss' that's pink taco's