BajaNomad - Not a Condemnation. An Education.

Not a Condemnation. An Education.

bajacalifornian - 2-24-2011 at 03:59 PM

On shares of fuel, from a Mexican Gas Station . . .

Stop your vehicle with your driver window (or passenger window) next to the pump meter you are selecting.

Ask not, for such things as: "Fill it up", . . . or, "Lleno por favor", . . . or , "ah . . . fifty, no, ah . . . five-hundred pesos", or hold out three different colored bills with different feel & size and say, "Please put this much in".

If it is fuel you are requesting, you can ask in two different ways.

Learn to divide your vehicle fuel capacity by four. Think of this as, "I most closely want 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 or a full tanks worth".

If you prefer to order in known values in dollar or pesos, you can do that too. You'll need to do some math.

If you need to carry the values on a pocket computer, you can do that too. But, keep it simple.

PROFECO (the Federal Bureau of Consumer Interests) is the agency going about Mexico, measuring fuel drawn from the test pump in liters, a 20 liter test commonly. PROFECO pumps fuel from the test pump into a vessel. They first push the "liter" (or more accurately the "Ingrese volumen") select button, and pump their fuel.

Learn your car's fuel tank in liters per one quarter tank. My Ford van (small V8) is 20/40/60/or 80 liters if empty (twenty liters per 1/4 tank).

Learn the math, & order in liters.

Examples:

You have fifty U.S. dollars or five hundred pesos or you want about 1/4 tanks worth . . . say to run around town. Order 20 liters.
Or, you are headed south out of San Quintin. You stop at the Pemex with the bold welcome to the San Quintin Valley sign painted on the boundary wall, near the topes and Federal Police.

You want to fill it up. You know the number of quarters you need to fill up (of course in liters). Order more than you need if you like. All that happens is the tank fills, the pump stops as does the meter. Same as PROFECO does it.

On the other hand, if requested in pesos or a fill up, amount is entered on the keypad. The computer has selection of two Mexican legal paths, for dispensation.

P.S. On minutia.
Yes, a Gallon is 3.785 Liters. Figure yours at 4 liters per gallon.
Yes, the dollar/peso value varies. Carry pesos.
Yes, on nozzle flows, full flow is best (unlike a hospital).
Yes, know your boat for sure. (Perhaps, 580 liters for fill up. More the merrier.)
Yes, 20 liters is the least you can order & yes, you can order 23 or 69 liters.

In general, the best way to order fuel in any gas station in Mexico is in multiples of 20 liters.

Below the number pad are two buttons. The "X" or crossed cigarette is "Para Anular". Like an annulment. Cancels an incorrect entry and ****idad (continue), enter the correct data. The repetitive circle is the "volumen" or liter button. Your attendant will first push the spinning circle button, then enter the number of liters to be dispensed.

mtgoat666 - 2-24-2011 at 04:20 PM

sure is easier to just ask the gas jockey to fill it up.

Bajahowodd - 2-24-2011 at 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
sure is easier to just ask the gas jockey to fill it up.

Yep.

Reminds me. I can recall one fill up in La Paz that was self-serve. What's that all about? Only place I ever stopped where I had to go to the attendant window and pay in advance, then pump my own. I kinda got the feeling that Mexico was like the Spanish-speaking version of New Jersey. :lol:

DENNIS - 2-24-2011 at 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Reminds me. I can recall one fill up in La Paz that was self-serve. What's that all about? Only place I ever stopped where I had to go to the attendant window and pay in advance, then pump my own. I kinda got the feeling that Mexico was like the Spanish-speaking version of New Jersey. :lol:

I thought all of them up north were like that.

Marc - 2-24-2011 at 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
sure is easier to just ask the gas jockey to fill it up.

Come to think of it; the only time I ever came across a self serv pemex in Baja was on the way to S. Felipe. I actually could not figure out the process and had to go to the office for help.

surfer jim - 2-24-2011 at 07:18 PM

BC......tell the truth.......Did you used to work at the IRS or the DMV....?

bajacalifornian - 2-24-2011 at 07:31 PM

I did neither.

krafty - 2-24-2011 at 07:33 PM

Actually, NJ is one of the only states left that will not let you serve yourself, at least that was still the case a couple of years ago.

mulegemichael - 2-24-2011 at 07:35 PM

lleno con magna...no mas

surfdoc - 2-24-2011 at 09:35 PM

El Rosario, my last trip down was self serve.. No problem..
Oregon is wierd, I was yelled at for trying to pump my own... Serious No No..

karmatourer - 2-24-2011 at 09:37 PM

Was that statewide,or just on the NJ Turnpike or GardenState Parkway?
I remember it on the pike.

Quote:

Originally posted by krafty
Actually, NJ is one of the only states left that will not let you serve yourself, at least that was still the case a couple of years ago.

CaboRon - 2-24-2011 at 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by krafty
Actually, NJ is one of the only states left that will not let you serve yourself, at least that was still the case a couple of years ago.

In Oregon you are not allowed to pump your own gas. There is an attendant. This was instituted to create jobs. More than ten thousand jobs have been created this way.

krafty - 2-24-2011 at 10:19 PM

all over NJ as I recall

mcfez - 2-24-2011 at 10:24 PM

Just on the news wire tonight...price of gas will hit $4.00 by March 15th

This ought to help the Baja tourist trade intensely

Dave - 2-24-2011 at 11:25 PM

Anyone who thinks there is a magical formula to minimize chances of fraud at a Pemex station is dreaming. In those stations owned and staffed by honest folks, you'll get an honest pour. In stations that are dishonest...you won't. If offered the chance to compare stations near each other the one that's busy should be your first and best clue.

dtutko1 - 2-25-2011 at 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Anyone who thinks there is a magical formula to minimize chances of fraud at a Pemex station is dreaming. In those stations owned and staffed by honest folks, you'll get an honest pour. In stations that are dishonest...you won't. If offered the chance to compare stations near each other the one that's busy should be your first and best clue.

I agree Dave, the PROFECO can be bought. A 10% cheat, which would be hard to detect w/o scale is big #'s, hundreds of thousands of dollars/year at high volume stations. My gas gauge is not totally linier (sp) so measuring my purchase w/it would be meaningless. Stations in La Paz advertise w/large signs "litros complete", so what does that say?. A Previous post in the Baja Western Onion had a gringo going around the area and buying a metered litre. The results were off as much as 18%.

dtutko1 - 2-25-2011 at 06:58 AM

The same station may have some pumps more accurate than others. when approaching a pemex avoid the lane you are directed to if possible and get in the lane w/the locals.

monoloco - 2-25-2011 at 07:00 AM

Don, the only one around here that I'll go to is the one north of Todos Santos, the other two (owned by the same guy) manage to put 23 liters in a 19 liter container.

Cypress - 2-25-2011 at 07:00 AM

If you don't like/trust PEMEX just do business with the other guys. :biggrin:

Pompano - 2-25-2011 at 11:28 AM

Libya just stopped exporting oil today. So it goes.

dtutko1 - 2-25-2011 at 12:17 PM

My Canadian oil stocks are shooting up as I write. And those dividends! :yes:

durrelllrobert - 2-25-2011 at 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtutko1
The same station may have some pumps more accurate than others. when approaching a pemex avoid the lane you are directed to if possible and get in the lane w/the locals.

yes, and make sure the pump you go to starts at all cerros

Pompano - 2-25-2011 at 01:40 PM

$5 per gallon will seem cheap 5 years from now, unless we do..SOMETHING...ANYTHING.

Is anyone running the country? It seems void of any leadership.

Wyoming, SE Montana, & North Dakota have a zillion barrels of oil locked in saturated shale..just below the surface.

Tick tock..tick tock..tick tock

What would you suggest we do?

Dave - 2-25-2011 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Unlocking shale only pays if oil prices are high.

People have the mistaken impression that oil produced in the U.S. will be cheaper than what the Saudi's charge.

Cheap oil is gone...long gone.

Cypress - 2-25-2011 at 02:13 PM

Quote:

Instead of all the solar power, wind power and ethanol boondoggles, they/WE!!! ought to be extending the natural gas piplines to all areas fo the country. Ethanol? Leadership? Jeez! A joke, but not a funny one.

Bajahowodd - 2-25-2011 at 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Unlocking shale only pays if oil prices are high.

People have the mistaken impression that oil produced in the U.S. will be cheaper than what the Saudi's charge.

Cheap oil is gone...long gone.

You are so right! Pining for cheap gas ain't gonna get anywhere. As it stands today, the US is still third in the world in crude production, behind Russia and Saudi Arabia.

Fact is that so long as many folks in the US feel the need to drive gas guzzling vehicles, the price of fuel is just going to keep rising.

tripledigitken - 2-25-2011 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Unlocking shale only pays if oil prices are high.

People have the mistaken impression that oil produced in the U.S. will be cheaper than what the Saudi's charge.

Cheap oil is gone...long gone.

What to do you say?

Oil prices are high!!

Do what Canada is doing. Shale oil in Alberta is produced at less than $25/barrel.

Our leaders seem to want us to have lines at the pumps and gas at $4 gal.

mcfez - 2-25-2011 at 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress

Quote:

Yeah....could had been done with the billions spent on the wars...

Politics.

monoloco - 2-25-2011 at 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress

Quote:

Cypress, solar power is no boondoggle if done correctly, I live comfortably on solar power and there are lots of people in the states living in net-zero homes that rely on solar to achieve that level of efficiency.

Bajahowodd - 2-25-2011 at 05:04 PM

I'll grant that ethanol IS a boondoggle. Using corn just doesn't produce the optimum yield of power. The US ethanol program accomplishes two things. Number one, it enriches corporate farmers. Number two, it drives up the cost of virtually all comestibles. They are projecting food inflation at between 4-5% this year. Much of it due to the diversion of corn to fuel.

But to all you shale groupies, do you have any idea how destructive to the environment that process is?

Unless and until folks are willing to do their fair share of conserving, which includes buying into energy efficient transportation technologies, there is just no way prices are going anywhere but up.

Cypress - 2-25-2011 at 05:16 PM

monoloco, Yep, all you need is sunshine......

Pompano - 2-25-2011 at 09:15 PM

Shale oil is good ..and was good...to go for when it was $30 a barrel.

Yes, $30 a barrel would have been profitable.

What is it now...over $100?...and some think it will go to $200.

What do I suggest we do?...get our own oil up out of the damn ground and use it. No debate..just action.

Cypress - 2-26-2011 at 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Shale oil is good .....get our own oil up out of the damn ground and use it. No debate..just action.

We're gonna have to. It would also provide job opportunities for a lot of people. These rising fuel costs will lead to inflation at a rate we haven't seen in a generation.

MitchMan - 2-26-2011 at 08:35 AM

When I think of the prices of a barrel of oil over the last 10 years, it has fluctuated wildly from $40 to $147. That couldn't possibly reflect the cost to pump it out of the ground. Apparently, since the price of oil is now related to the commodity type of futures market (meaning barrels of oil are "marketized" in a futures market). So now we have speculation involved in the price of oil, this taken together with the fact that the biggest producers are in a cartel that can exercise monopolistic pricing, well, my point is that the price of oil is based on squeezing the highest price out of consumers, and the current market can do that really, really well.

The relationship of the cost to produce oil and the price that can be squeezed out of us consumers has been severed. Therefore, the price can/will/is being adjusted to yield the highest price and profit and such price is based on a world wide market price. So, if someone finds oil in their back yard and can pump it out at a cost of $30 per barrel today, that barrel of oil will have a price of $98 because that is today's world price of a barrel of oil. Don't be shocked. Many things are priced really high for products that are cheap to actually produce. Ever pay $300 to $450 an hour for legal services? $6,000 fee to a heart surgeon for a 4hour surgery? $350 to your CPA for doing a simple 1040 itemized deduction federal and state income tax return? $175+ for a ticket to see a rock concert or to see a professional basketball game? Pay $200 for a Windows operating system?

Personally, I'd like to see we Americans get wise and mature and buy smaller vehicles and insist much more on optimizing better mileage vehicles. Unfortunately, it seems that in certain circles within our culture that we have falsely equated 'freedom' with the insistance of the right to buy giant gas guzzling vehicles if we want to.

It would be great if we could all think in terms of economical usage of energy at each and every opportunity, constantly, whether you are rich or poor or in between. It's logical. Also, I have heard of some really impressive stats on the aggregate beneficial effect to our trade deficit, the economy and dependence on foreign oil by switching to cars that get an average of 10 miles per gallon more than the current country's average, of being more vigilant on use of electricity in our homes and businesses, not to mention actively pursuing alternate forms of energy.

What can one person do today to materially affect the situation? Nothing. To materially and beneficially affect the damaging magnitude of our dependence on oil requires an aggregate cultural change in thinking. That will affect our aggregate behavior relating to economizing our individual use of energy, what vehicles we buy and use, maybe even relate to whom we vote for and could then be reflected in politics, and then hopefully be reflected in our economy and maybe even laws that help conform to the aggregate willingness to conserve.

[Edited on 2-26-2011 by MitchMan]

bajalou - 2-26-2011 at 09:39 AM

Back to the original post - ordering in liters vs "Fill up" or peso amount.

I've been thinking about this for a couple days and have yet to see how this helps. If you are relying on the pump's measuring system and cost computation then please show me how it makes a difference on how you order.

Making sure the pump is zeroed and that you get the correct change are things to watch, but you have no control over the internal workings of the pump.

dtutko1 - 2-26-2011 at 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
$5 per gallon will seem cheap 5 years from now, unless we do..SOMETHING...ANYTHING.

Is anyone running the country? It seems void of any leadership.

Wyoming, SE Montana, & North Dakota have a zillion barrels of oil locked in saturated shale..just below the surface.

What should we do? How about use less. Be the leaders in the world on energy effeciency. Live within our means. Set up a commission to find out how our oil got under their land. there's no single solution. Outlaw ethanol from foodstuffs, use switchgrass. Implement T. Boone Pickens plan and others. Make it our national imperative. Jimmy Carter was right about energy. It's the moral equivelent of war! The oil and utility co's are, for the most part, not part of the solution, but you can be!

Unlocking shale only pays if oil prices are high.

People have the mistaken impression that oil produced in the U.S. will be cheaper than what the Saudi's charge.

Cheap oil is gone...long gone.

Pompano - 2-26-2011 at 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Back to the original post - ordering in liters vs "Fill up" or peso amount.

I've been thinking about this for a couple days and have yet to see how this helps. If you are relying on the pump's measuring system and cost computation then please show me how it makes a difference on how you order.

Making sure the pump is zeroed and that you get the correct change are things to watch, but you have no control over the internal workings of the pump.

durrelllrobert - 2-26-2011 at 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Shale oil is good get our own oil up out of the damn ground and use it. No debate..just action.

THE US overnment has been in the oil shale business for almost 100 years, in case you didn't know:
The Naval Petroleum and Oil Shale Reserves (NPOSR) has a storied history beginning with its inception in 1912 during the Taft Administration, to the 1998 sale of its supergiant Elk Hills oil field (Naval Petroleum Reserve No. 1) to Occidental Petroleum under the Clinton Administration. The infamous Teapot Dome scandal in the 1920s during the Harding Administration may perhaps be the nadir in this storied history, but for the remainder of its almost-100 year history, the Reserves stood well managed to serve the Nation during times of both peace and war.

In response to the 1973 Arab oil embargo, the United States opened the Reserves to full production in 1976. Since that time, petroleum sales produced net revenues of $22 billion to the U.S. Treasury. The sale of the Elk Hills field in 1998 to Occidental Petroleum netted an additional $3.65 billion.

Today, three of the four original Petroleum Reserves (NPR-1, NPR-2, and NPR-4) have been sold or transferred to the Department of the Interior. The only remaining oil reserve managed by the Department of Energy is the Teapot Dome field (NPR-3) in Casper, Wyoming, which is now a stripper field that also serves as an oilfield technology testing center (Rocky Mountain Oilfield Testing Center).

In addition to the oil reserves, the Government also held oil shale lands in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming (NOSRs). During the early 1980s, the NOSRs were opened to oil shale development. After a brief hectic period, most oil shale development was abandoned because of a collapse in world oil prices from a high point of $40 per barrel in early 1980 to a low of $15 per barrel by 1989. Subsequently, the Government eventually transferred its NOSRs to BLM and an American Indian tribe.

Today's high oil prices have once again renewed interest in oil shale and other unconventional strategic fuels development. Even though the NPOSR no longer controls the NOSRs, its unique experience in oil shale technology led Congress - as part of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 - to designate the Petroleum Reserves program as the lead office to coordinate the creation and implementation of a commercial strategic fuel (oil shale and tar sands) development program for the United States.

bajalou - 2-26-2011 at 01:43 PM

The Navy operated a oil shale plant near Rifle CO in the 40s. I toured it with my high school class in around 48 or 49. Don't know when it closed. Believe it was experimental to determine ways/costs of extraction. This was way before the big time development in the 80s.

Terry28 - 2-26-2011 at 01:49 PM

Boy, did this thread go south in a hurry!!

Barry A. - 2-26-2011 at 03:05 PM

I find this discussion fascinating, and educational.

Barry

woody with a view - 2-26-2011 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I'll grant that ethanol IS a boondoggle. Using corn just doesn't produce the optimum yield of power. The US ethanol program accomplishes two things. Number one, it enriches corporate farmers. Number two, it drives up the cost of virtually all comestibles. They are projecting food inflation at between 4-5% this year. Much of it due to the diversion of corn to fuel.

But to all you shale groupies, do you have any idea how destructive to the environment that process is?

Unless and until folks are willing to do their fair share of conserving, which includes buying into energy efficient transportation technologies, there is just no way prices are going anywhere but up.

howODD,

http://hauntingthelibrary.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/you-could...

here are your tree huggers at work. they don't want the US to be at the front in the next century as it relates to energy self sufficiency. do your fellow gringo (naturalized, or otherwise!) a favor and stop fighting our efforts to exist in a world where we were born into!

edit: i'm not retired on a pension. i'm still 20 years away form that wet dream. i don't expect to receive social security, so i would expect my representative government would not want to bury me for being a "bad" american....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

watch until :39 seconds. this is WAR! and it is at our doorstep!

[Edited on 2-26-2011 by woody with a view]

bajacalifornian - 2-26-2011 at 05:10 PM

The post is boringly clear. Mulegemichael will pay for Christmas this year with fuel savings. Those heavily laden with American ways and means are not expected to grasp what happens in another man's country.

Here in Mexico, students on fixed income know how to order. Fuel jocks working the pumps know how to order. Even aristocrats in Monterrey, N. L. understand the workings of Mexico, and know how to order.

bajalou - 2-26-2011 at 05:25 PM

For those of us that don't have your wisdom, please explain to me how a savings can be made if you're using the readings on the pump. I sincerely would like to know. I've lived in Baja for over 15 years and would welcome a way to save.

Bajahowodd - 2-26-2011 at 05:32 PM

Kinda funny, in a way, Woody. Sound bites and other clips can be used to project any agenda.

My personal feeling is that this nation CAN become energy independent. But there are several obsatacles in the way. Manong the biggest are the big oil folks.

Ecology freaks may attempt to make stands against certain projects. But, that doesn't mean that they are not for self-sustanence for this country. My feeling is that just like any other issue, there are better and worse ways to go about achieving the goals.

Gawd. I'm sure there are a large number of folks on this forum that lived through the first oil shock, when cars linned up on odd and even days to buy fuel.

At the end of the day, after several years of massive sales of small, fuel efficient vehicles, this country reverted to its profligate ways.

Hey! All you folks who NEED to drive gas guzzling vehicles, be they RVs of giant pickups, if you can be cool with the idea that it'll cost you a hundred bucks or more for a fill up, that will get you a couple of hundred miles, good for you. It's a "free country", do what you wish.

Unless and until folks are willing to do their fair share of conserving, which includes buying into energy efficient transportation technologies, there is just no way prices are going anywhere but up.

Probably one of the most overriding factor in the Middle East uprising today, is that, while maybe not our actual government, but certainly big oil, with a tacit approval, has raped these lands of their resources, often at an abhorrent discount.

woody with a view - 2-26-2011 at 05:40 PM

raped, as in payed top dollar to the head of said country. maybe now when head gets removed, the peons will prosper.

not my fault either way, but i suspect when an iron fist in the middle east is removed, chaos will ensue.

at least in my lifetime..... and that is what's important to me.

djh - 2-26-2011 at 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
No debate..just action.

Well . . . that's debate-able ! :lol:

Kidding, amigo, but if the BN community is in anyway representative of the larger population . . . EVERYthing is debatable !

That's one of the great reasons WHY we fish ! ! ! Or as my brother, Bruce, who got me started fly fishing when I was a teenager, used to say "Its not that fishing is so important, its just that everything else is so LESS important."

Bro. Bruce is a wise man

bajacalifornian - 2-27-2011 at 09:14 AM

Hey bajalou. The answer lies in archives of the Spanish language, related to a term LST. In a search of PROFECO, LST & fueling in Mexico, the only clue I have found follows & in no way satisfies either of us:

"The pumps are calibrated by computer, an example you ask 100 or 200 pesos the pump does not give you the amount in LST (you get less).
But as the buckets of Prophethood are 20 LST protects the computer and gives you the exact LST 20 so you always have to be ordered in multiples of 20. Requests 20, 40, 60 as your tank."

Sorry. Best I can do.

bajalou - 2-27-2011 at 10:16 AM

Thanks for the effort.

TMW - 2-27-2011 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Kinda funny, in a way, Woody. Sound bites and other clips can be used to project any agenda.

My personal feeling is that this nation CAN become energy independent. But there are several obsatacles in the way. Manong the biggest are the big oil folks.

Ecology freaks may attempt to make stands against certain projects. But, that doesn't mean that they are not for self-sustanence for this country. My feeling is that just like any other issue, there are better and worse ways to go about achieving the goals.

Gawd. I'm sure there are a large number of folks on this forum that lived through the first oil shock, when cars linned up on odd and even days to buy fuel.

At the end of the day, after several years of massive sales of small, fuel efficient vehicles, this country reverted to its profligate ways.

Hey! All you folks who NEED to drive gas guzzling vehicles, be they RVs of giant pickups, if you can be cool with the idea that it'll cost you a hundred bucks or more for a fill up, that will get you a couple of hundred miles, good for you. It's a "free country", do what you wish.

Unless and until folks are willing to do their fair share of conserving, which includes buying into energy efficient transportation technologies, there is just no way prices are going anywhere but up.

Probably one of the most overriding factor in the Middle East uprising today, is that, while maybe not our actual government, but certainly big oil, with a tacit approval, has raped these lands of their resources, often at an abhorrent discount.

Big oil and the power companies will build and own the solar systems and wind farms as they are the only ones with the cash to do it. If they don't do the start ups then they will buy it from who does start it. Everyone likes to bash the oil companies because when gas goes up you feel it immediately at the pump. But except for a few times in our North American history (mid-70s, 08 and now) gas prices have remained pretty stable and never did they reach the cost most other countries pay.

Cars and trucks do get better milage today, especially cars.

monoloco - 2-27-2011 at 11:30 AM

Quote:

Big oil and the power companies will build and own the solar systems and wind farms as they are the only ones with the cash to do it.

Before they do they will have to cut deals with companies like Goldman Sachs who have already acquired most of the prime locations:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38956835/ns/us_news-environment/

Spearo - 2-27-2011 at 12:41 PM

socialize the risk, privatize the profits

its the american way!

Bajahowodd - 2-27-2011 at 04:33 PM

TW:
Cars and trucks do get better milage today, especially cars.

Any idea how much better it could have been by now, if it wasn't for the combination of Big Oil and American drivers' sense of entitlement?

As I mentioned in a prior post, this country moved dramatically toward smaller, more fuel efficient cars when there was a fuel shortage. Unfortunately, when the crisis eased, so did our resolve.

Anyone who has been to Europe, for example, where fuel prices have historically been high, will have noticed that there is a wide array of very small cars, along with very efficient public transportation, and inter-city (and country) high speed rail.

I have to believe that we have and are missing a golden opportunity right now, where so many folks are grousing about the debt, while so many folks are unemployed, or underemployed. Just looking to Ike and the Interstate Highway system began in the 50's. We ought to suck it up, invest as much as we can, and have a massive project to build efficient rail.

I am constantly reminded on the Los Angeles West side and the traffic gridlock that has persisted for years. They could have built a Wilshire corridor subway to Santa Monica years ago and be miles ahead! (pun intended)

TMW - 2-28-2011 at 09:17 AM

I don't disagree with what you say. Our public transportation is not good and mostly from shortsighted politicians. Yes trucks especially could be better at gas mileage. I think cars are in pretty good shape and are pushing the limit in milage. High gas prices will move people to drive less as in 08 and to buy smaller better mileage vehicles.

gnukid - 2-28-2011 at 09:53 AM

Fill up early in the morning, you'll get a much better deal.

castaway$ - 2-28-2011 at 12:09 PM

WOW I never new it could be so complicated to buy gas, I always show them the money or tell em to fill it, it ain't rocket science.

Barry A. - 2-28-2011 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
TW:
Cars and trucks do get better milage today, especially cars.

Any idea how much better it could have been by now, if it wasn't for the combination of Big Oil and American drivers' sense of entitlement?

As I mentioned in a prior post, this country moved dramatically toward smaller, more fuel efficient cars when there was a fuel shortage. Unfortunately, when the crisis eased, so did our resolve.

Anyone who has been to Europe, for example, where fuel prices have historically been high, will have noticed that there is a wide array of very small cars, along with very efficient public transportation, and inter-city (and country) high speed rail.

I have to believe that we have and are missing a golden opportunity right now, where so many folks are grousing about the debt, while so many folks are unemployed, or underemployed. Just looking to Ike and the Interstate Highway system began in the 50's. We ought to suck it up, invest as much as we can, and have a massive project to build efficient rail.

I am constantly reminded on the Los Angeles West side and the traffic gridlock that has persisted for years. They could have built a Wilshire corridor subway to Santa Monica years ago and be miles ahead! (pun intended)

It has always amazed me that my long ago sold 1989 Crysler Le Baron consistantly got 36 to 38 mpg on the road, but nothing I have today can match that, or even come close. ('97 Camry gets 28 mpg)

Go figure????

Barry

Bajahowodd - 2-28-2011 at 03:36 PM

You sure about that Barry? Did you only drive that Chrylser downhill with a tail wind?? :lol:

Just sayin'.....http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/noframes/5343.shtml

bajacalifornian - 2-28-2011 at 03:48 PM

Results are in. Scores are posted below:

mtgoat666, Bajahowodd, castaway$

-sure is easier to just ask the gas jockey to fill it up.
-I always show them the money or tell em to fill it
-Yep.
You all get pass to the next year. Makes the system work.

mulegemichael Got the essence of a Chicken Dinner, knows his subject well . . .
-lleno con magna...no mas

soulpatch
-get a more accurate volume.
Listened well in class.

-Anyone who thinks there is a magical formula to minimize chances of fraud at a Pemex station is dreaming. In those stations owned and staffed by honest folks, you'll get an honest pour. In stations that are dishonest...you won't. If offered the chance to compare stations near each other the one that's busy should be your first and best clue.
Any Baja loving Fhoax out there?
(Similarly in America, different retailers sell similar products at different prices [dishonest, Not a Condemnation post]).

dtutko1 Excellent. One to be underscored.
-a gringo going around the area and buying a metered liter. The results were off as much as 18%.

monoloco
-manage to put 23 liters in a 19 liter container.
The thesis, in 10 words or less.

Cypress
-If you don't like/trust PEMEX just do business with the other guys.
Winner of the Bob Hope traveling trophy.

bajalou
-I've been thinking about this for a couple days and have yet to see how this helps. If you are relying on the pump's measuring system and cost computation then please show me how it makes a difference on how you order.
Please see monoloco above.

Barry A. - 2-28-2011 at 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
You sure about that Barry? Did you only drive that Chrylser downhill with a tail wind?? :lol:

Just sayin'.....http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/noframes/5343.shtml

Positive!!!!! I had the 4 dr le Baron for 5 years, it was a 4-banger gas, automatic, and yes, it consistently got 38 mpg on the highway at 65 mph. Don't care what any body says, or any report on paper, I know what it got, over and over again. If I drove it at 55 it would get 40mpg on a level freeway (like I-5 thru the central valley). If it had not been so tinny I would have hung onto it. Very noisy car!!!

I have never understood why the newer cars don't do better but I do have bigger engines in them. My '89 Isuzu Trooper (4-banger stickshift) got 26 mpg for a couple of years, and then settled back to average 21 mpg in it's later years. My '94 F-250 stick shift gets a solid 10 mpg, no matter what. Yikes!!!!!

Barry

Woooosh - 2-28-2011 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
If you don't like/trust PEMEX just do business with the other guys. :biggrin:

LOL. At least you can pick your stations (usually). I'm not smart enough to do it the other way. I usually just ask for 300 pesos of red. They clear the pump screen and show me it's zeroed out. Then they pump that amount in pesos. Hopefully they will wash my windshield and check the tires, for which I give the attendant a shiny gold ten peso coin. Does it have to harder?

Bajahowodd - 2-28-2011 at 05:14 PM

I suppose that for folks doing local driving such as Kate and Woooosh, it makes sense to buy less than a fill up. But, for so many of the Nomads, who are driving long distances, up and down the peninsula, it has to be lleno, lest one rolls to a stop in the middle of nowhere.

Cypress - 2-28-2011 at 05:18 PM

Zero it out and fill 'er up.

Barry A. - 2-28-2011 at 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Zero it out and fill 'er up.

I think that is pronounced, "feel 'er up", Cypress, at least that is the way my wife tells me I always pronounce it. Strange, the attendent always laughs at me, and my wife always sinks down and trys to hide.

barry

Cypress - 2-28-2011 at 05:53 PM

Barry A., :lol:

TMW - 3-1-2011 at 09:34 AM

I had an 87 Le Baron 4 cyclinder but never got anywhere near 30mpg, mid 20s mostly.

bajalou - 3-1-2011 at 11:00 AM

I have a 4 cyl 99 Nissan Altima 99 that regularly gets 36-40 mph on the highway at 60-70mph and 30+ around town.

Barry A. - 3-1-2011 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I had an 87 Le Baron 4 cyclinder but never got anywhere near 30mpg, mid 20s mostly.

Ours had the Mitsubishi 4-cyl engine (I think), but maybe they all did then??????? It was a 4-dr fastback. It was a phenomenal gas-saver, but a tin can, and it drove me nuts. NOW, I wish I still had it, and I could live with the tinny noise. :light:

I sold it to a College kid, and she is STILL driving it.

Barry

TMW - 3-1-2011 at 05:00 PM

Mine had a digital speedometer and a voice that told you all kind of things like the door is not shut or the windshield fluid is low, but not which one the front or the rear window one. Everytime it spoke I thought of the James Gardner TV show where he was a detective and he once had a loaner car while his was being fixed and it talked to him. At the end of the show he started ripping out all the wires under hood he was so mad at it.

Bajahowodd - 3-1-2011 at 05:09 PM

You talking 'bout James Garner- Rockford?

As for Barry's complaint about the tinny feel and sound, well alot of that has to do with the weight of the vehicle. Kinda brings to mind what Boeing has been trying to do with their 787 Dreamliner, using composite material to lighten the plane. Maybe the auto industry should be lookiong into the same technology.

TMW - 3-1-2011 at 05:12 PM

Right the Rockford Files, that's it. Thanks