BajaNomad - Anyone hear this one yet?

Anyone hear this one yet?

BajaWarrior - 4-13-2011 at 10:29 PM

Mexican Sailors Board San Diego-Based Dive Boat

Incident Happened Near Mexico's Coronado Islands

POSTED: 6:12 pm PDT April 13, 2011
UPDATED: 7:09 pm PDT April 13, 2011

SAN DIEGO -- An afternoon cruise turned into a hostile situation for dozens of people over the weekend when Mexican sailors with machine guns boarded a San Diego-based dive boat.
The incident happened on Sunday off the Coronado Islands resulted in a two hour standoff. Thought it was an extreme adventure, it was one that passengers on the charter boat did not sign up for.
"Probably a few of them were nervous because of the guns but overall, I think they were all right," said the boat's captain Spencer Salmon.

Salmon was leading a group of 38 passengers who completed three dives flawlessly off the Coronado Islands on Sunday.The Horizon charter boat was positioned just to the north of the southernmost island in Mexico's Coronado Islands.
Two Mexican naval ships approached the Horizon. A 180-foot Mexican battleship was standing guard several hundred feet to the northeast, while a 25-foot cutter came right up next to the Horizon. Six members of the Mexican Navy armed with assault weapons boarded the American boat, as the passengers were ordered to the boat's rear deck for what turned out to be an agonizing wait. On deck, passengers with young children grew more nervous as the delay dragged on.
The passengers were detained for two hours and then forced to leave Mexican waters.
Salmon admitted the situation became heated with a Mexican Navy commander wanted to see a Mexican diving permit.
"I've never heard of one but [I'm] happy to look into it and figure an answer out," said Salmon.
On Wednesday, Salmon went to the Mexican consulate downtown for a meeting with authorities from both countries.
All parties said they're seeking a solution that will prevent the same thing from happening again.

[Edited on 4-14-2011 by BajaWarrior]

baja829 - 4-13-2011 at 10:32 PM

Isn't there a Mexican Navy Base on the Coronado Islands? Maybe they got too close???

Dave - 4-14-2011 at 07:46 AM

The Coronado Islands are Mexican soil which means the Mexican Navy can do whatever it wants.

[Edited on 4-14-2011 by Dave]

TMW - 4-14-2011 at 07:57 AM

["A 180-foot Mexican battleship was standing guard several hundred feet to the northeast"]

I would love to see a 180 foot battleship. Was it made by Tonka?

baronvonbob - 4-14-2011 at 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
["A 180-foot Mexican battleship was standing guard several hundred feet to the northeast"]

I would love to see a 180 foot battleship. Was it made by Tonka?

Just like, " Master and Commander"

Bajaboy - 4-14-2011 at 08:20 AM

Saw this on the news last night and didn't understand the uproar. The boat was in Mexican waters and the Mexican Navy boarded the ship and asked for papers.

Mexican waters

akshadow - 4-14-2011 at 08:32 AM

I agree if in Mexican waters should expect to be boarded!

Did the captain have proper permits to do business in Mexico?
Did passengers have approval to enter the country?

Why do we think Mexico should treat us differently than the US should treat them?

baronvonbob - 4-14-2011 at 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by akshadow
I agree if in Mexican waters should expect to be boarded!

Did the captain have proper permits to do business in Mexico?
Did passengers have approval to enter the country?

Why do we think Mexico should treat us differently than the US should treat them?

Gee I cannot count the times I have been stopped of of Long beach by the Game Warden checking for my fishing license, whats the difference???? I have watched the Military check Mexican Clam Diggers for Pismo clams that are too small.

An experienced Dive Boat operator that plys Mexican waters is supposed to be bersed on Mexican requirements, is that not what you are paying for? Any long range boat heading into Mexican Waters makes sure you have th proper licenses before they leave Port!!!!

KASHEYDOG - 4-14-2011 at 08:51 AM

Let's see if I understand this correctly. :?:

An American boat is in Mexican waters and is stopped by Mexican authorities for an inspection. OK.... :?:

... So what's your point.. :?:

Wonder what would have happened had that same Mexican boat ventured a couple of miles farther north, say like up to the Imperial Beach pier or maybe around the Hotel Del Coronado and the US Naval Amphibious base where the Seal Teams are trained??

Do you think it would have been stopped and boarded likewise??

I too, don't understand the big too doo.....

Why do so many Americans think they can do anything they want anywhere in the world and are not subject to the laws of that country ???

[Edited on 4-14-11 by KASHEYDOG]

It's about $$$

bajaguy - 4-14-2011 at 08:56 AM

More of the US press and their yellow journalism regarding Mexico......Anything negative that they can print regarding Mexico helps keep US tourists and US tourist dollars in the US

KASHEYDOG - 4-14-2011 at 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
More of the US press and their yellow journalism regarding Mexico......Anything negative that they can print regarding Mexico helps keep US tourists and US tourist dollars in the US

Got that right, Terry ..

...

Also the lack of respect for authority, property and each other that is so prevalent in our society today.. :fire:

[Edited on 4-14-11 by KASHEYDOG]

wilderone - 4-14-2011 at 09:13 AM

Two hours is way excessive for such an inspection on that type of boat, with children on board. That's an act of aggression. The captain either had required documents or not. "Six members of the Mexican Navy armed with assault weapons boarded the American boat." I'm sure there are plenty of boats that go out there, private and commercial - is this standard procedure? If they were too close to the military base, they should have just been told, possibly issued a citation and told to leave. When you have a Mexican fishing license, you don't have an implied concomitant visa ("approval to enter the country"). But I don't believe you need an individual license to dive if you're not spearfishing, unless it's in a marine park or natural preserve. I agree that boarding vessels and checking documents is allowed, but just do the job. Excessive detention could be considered an arrest.

KASHEYDOG - 4-14-2011 at 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Two hours is way excessive for such an inspection on that type of boat, with children on board. That's an act of aggression. The captain either had required documents or not. "Six members of the Mexican Navy armed with assault weapons boarded the American boat." I'm sure there are plenty of boats that go out there, private and commercial - is this standard procedure? If they were too close to the military base, they should have just been told, possibly issued a citation and told to leave. When you have a Mexican fishing license, you don't have an implied concomitant visa ("approval to enter the country"). But I don't believe you need an individual license to dive if you're not spearfishing, unless it's in a marine park or natural preserve. I agree that boarding vessels and checking documents is allowed, but just do the job. Excessive detention could be considered an arrest.

Sorry, but I really don't think OUR standards ( laws )apply in Mexico. After all it is a " sovereign country " and correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always heard things got done a little slower there. ..

At least that's been my experience.. :lol:

Let's not forget the age old rule given me by my Master many years ago. He said, "Grasshopper", ""when in Rome do as the Romans do".. :smug:

[Edited on 4-14-11 by KASHEYDOG]

Jim/Liisa - 4-14-2011 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baronvonbob

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
["A 180-foot Mexican battleship was standing guard several hundred feet to the northeast"]

I would love to see a 180 foot battleship. Was it made by Tonka?

Just like, " Master and Commander"

Be nice now, you should see the size of one of there Aircraft Carriers.

DENNIS - 4-14-2011 at 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baronvonbob
Gee I cannot count the times I have been stopped of of Long beach by the Game Warden checking for my fishing license, whats the difference????

Assault weapons, for one thing. Folks here who don't see the excessivness of the incident are born victims.
Are there any Americans left who have it in themselves to be indignant when the situation calls for it? Certainly doesn't seem to be any here.

Woooosh - 4-14-2011 at 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Saw this on the news last night and didn't understand the uproar. The boat was in Mexican waters and the Mexican Navy boarded the ship and asked for papers.

The Coronado Islands are being used to stage the panga human smuggling rings. Even the Desert Angels are putting emergency supplies on them because the pollos are being stranded there. Fair game imho.

preston - 4-14-2011 at 12:38 PM

I assume all those who have no problem with this also have no problem with the Arizona law (which is a watered down version of the Federal law) that says a police officer can demand "papers" from a person who is detained as part of law enforcement action.

Any real difference?

Papers please!

DENNIS - 4-14-2011 at 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by preston
I assume all those who have no problem with this also have no problem with the Arizona law (which is a watered down version of the Federal law) that says a police officer can demand "papers" from a person who is detained as part of law enforcement action.

I have no [less than no] problem with the procedures in Arizona although I do have problems with ham-handed armed assaults on a sport boat in the name of license verification.

baronvonbob - 4-14-2011 at 01:10 PM

Quote:

I have no [less than no] problem with the procedures in Arizona although I do have problems with ham-handed armed assaults on a sport boat in the name of license verification.

Does that mean you have a license to stand nekkid on your deck in Punta Banda?????

mtgoat666 - 4-14-2011 at 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Two hours is way excessive for such an inspection on that type of boat, with children on board. That's an act of aggression.

I disagree! the 2 hours is indication that the dive operator had no papers (was running an illegal business) and/or was mouthing off to the Mexicans.

And children are tougher than parents, children probably handled it better than parents.

mtgoat666 - 4-14-2011 at 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
I have had rangers up here treat me like a dirt bag criminal multiple times. Must be that finite amount of authority thing.

or perhaps you are.

DENNIS - 4-14-2011 at 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baronvonbob
Does that mean you have a license to stand nekkid on your deck in Punta Banda?????

Not only a license, but an obligation as well. I'm on contract with the cruise ship tour buses who are on contract with the Chamber of Commerce to promote a carefree image of the area. :biggrin:

DENNIS - 4-14-2011 at 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
I disagree! the 2 hours is indication that the dive operator had no papers (was running an illegal business) and/or was mouthing off to the Mexicans.

Baseless assumptions. Bad for your image.

desertcpl - 4-14-2011 at 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by baronvonbob
Does that mean you have a license to stand nekkid on your deck in Punta Banda?????

Not only a license, but an obligation as well. I'm on contract with the cruise ship tour buses who are on contract with the Chamber of Commerce to promote a carefree image of the area. :biggrin:

watch out Dennis you could be arrested for having a DEAD weapon in your possession

[Edited on 4-14-2011 by desertcpl]

DENNIS - 4-14-2011 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
watch out Dennis you could be arrested for having a DEAD weapon in your possecsion

I might argue that it was concealed. :lol:

KASHEYDOG - 4-14-2011 at 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
watch out Dennis you could be arrested for having a DEAD weapon in your possecsion

I might argue that it was concealed. :lol:

You forgot "not loaded" too , Dennis.. :lol:

DENNIS - 4-14-2011 at 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KASHEYDOG
You forgot "not loaded" too , Dennis.. :lol:

Thanks Dick. I didn't really forget. :lol:

shari - 4-14-2011 at 07:50 PM

It took us 2 years to get the all proper boat permits to take people scuba diving...yes you need special boat permits and if they dive in mexican waters, they should have all the paperwork...just like we have to have. It kinda bugs me to see the big american dive boats diving here with no permits at all...sheesh...when we who live here have to go through the wringer to get permits.

grizzlyfsh95 - 4-15-2011 at 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
I have had rangers up here treat me like a dirt bag criminal multiple times. Must be that finite amount of authority thing.

or perhaps you are.

Yes! You found me out you empty peebag. :light:

Oh, pleeeeze come out with your personal philosophy when you need one of us!
Huh?
:lol:

bajaguy - 4-15-2011 at 11:11 AM

You guys make me laugh till my sides hurt.

The dive boat was in Mexican waters, and was boarded by the Mexican Navy.......the Navy can do what they want, carry whatever weapons they want and take as much time as they need.......

Quit trying to apply American logic to anything that happens in Mexico.

baronvonbob - 4-15-2011 at 11:23 AM

Quote:

Quit trying to apply American logic to anything that happens in Mexico.

I find this interesting!
AMERICAN LOGIC :lol:

preston - 4-15-2011 at 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
It took us 2 years to get the all proper boat permits to take people scuba diving...yes you need special boat permits and if they dive in mexican waters, they should have all the paperwork...just like we have to have. It kinda bugs me to see the big american dive boats diving here with no permits at all...sheesh...when we who live here have to go through the wringer to get permits.

Shari:

You hit a nail right on the head. This is EXACTLY why Mexico is a poor country and will always remain a 3rd world country ... the lack of economic freedom. Now many will say that "yes, but Mexicans are happy with less". To this I say "NONSENSE, YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT". People want the freedom to pursue their dreams ... whether it be a dive boat operation, small tienda or whatever. I would agree that most Mexicans have "accepted" their lot in life, but they still have the same dreams and hopes that all peopples want.

The Mexican government crushes those dream with their corruption and "regulations". And if someone belives that government regulations actually help the people, they are smoking some serious weed.

DENNIS - 4-15-2011 at 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by preston
Now many will say that "yes, but Mexicans are happy with less".

I don't know anyone who would say such a foolish thing.

preston - 4-15-2011 at 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by preston
Now many will say that "yes, but Mexicans are happy with less".

I don't know anyone who would say such a foolish thing.

Can't recall exactly when and where that I've heard it ... but I have heard it on this site. People tend to romantacize about how happy Mexicans are in their small villages ... ignoring the crappy roads, crappy schools, crappy etc. and a government that systematically screws them.

But don't get me wrong. I love visiting and exploring Baja and other parts of Mexico. But I would never consider living there, raising a family and running a business (even though I am 1/3 owner of a business in Mexico City). And that's why 15 Million Mexicans live in the USA ... and another 15 Million WANT to live in the USA (IMHO).

DENNIS - 4-15-2011 at 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by preston
Can't recall exactly when and where that I've heard it ... but I have heard it on this site. People tend to romantacize about how happy Mexicans are in their small villages ... ignoring the crappy roads, crappy schools, crappy etc. and a government that systematically screws them.

Sometimes they do. You're right, but there are a lot of folks on this board that won't allow them to get away with such crap.
I get a feeling you arn't a big fan of the dusty side of Mexico. In fact, I doubt you like much of anything about the place.
That's OK as far as I'm concerned. There's a lot I don't like as well, but I try to avoid the class distinctions. They just make me a lesser person than I already am.

preston - 4-15-2011 at 02:16 PM

Quote:

If you mean the corruption and the government bullchit by the "dusty side", you are correct. I try to avoid it (or move through it) as fast as possible so I can enjoy what I like best about Baja and Mexico:

1) The natural beauty of the country and all it has to offer.
2) The honest (to me), friendly hardworking people such as the Panga driver I hire for $200 per day or the restaurant owner who serves a great meal .... neither of whom pay taxes on the money they earn or legally employ their workers.

I don't see peole through a "class distinction" prism. I respect honest, hard working people and despise those who exploit me or explot and suppress those hardworking, honest people (no matter what the color of their skin or citizenship or economic status). I'm an equal opportunity "despiser" (if that is even a word).

preston - 4-15-2011 at 02:20 PM

And oh by the way ... I hire illegal aliens (Mexicans) to help me with my yard work. I pay them $10 per hour cash with a $10 bonus if they work hard (IMO) along with lunch. I respect those who put in a honest days effort just like the gringoes who work for me in the USA.

bajabass - 4-15-2011 at 03:37 PM

I have been checked for papers three times in the last 8 years or so fishing out of La Salina. I always carry the boat papers, fishing licence, and up till a few years ago, my boat permit. The Marines in that area have always been very stern, but polite pros with me. BUT, all my papers were in order, no guns, no drugs. :saint:

I'd like to hear the whole story, but that may never happen :rolleyes:

Preston, you have to hire illegals for your yard work, because ain't no gringo kids around that know how to put in a hard days work!!!

preston - 4-15-2011 at 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
I have been checked for papers three times in the last 8 years or so fishing out of La Salina. I always carry the boat papers, fishing licence, and up till a few years ago, my boat permit. The Marines in that area have always been very stern, but polite pros with me. BUT, all my papers were in order, no guns, no drugs. :saint:

I'd like to hear the whole story, but that may never happen :rolleyes:

Preston, you have to hire illegals for your yard work, because ain't no gringo kids around that know how to put in a hard days work!!!

Absolutely correct. I cannot get ANY gringo kids to put in a hard days work. I have no respect for those lazy good for nothing kids. I respect the hard working illegals. As I said, I'm an equal opportunity despiser.

mike odell - 4-15-2011 at 04:30 PM

peeTON,
You arrogant burrohat, you are freakin clueless about the interworkings of how
bidness gets done in Baja. I've a lot of experience in Baja business, ALWAY'S paid
taxes, and have Always paid my Employees fairly, over and above, IMMS etc, etc,
This is true of the rest of the business people in my area.
Your peeheaded comments about how you paid a Pangero the princely sum
of 200 bucks sucks big time. He burned up gas, probably put you on fish that
you Farmed, listened to your sunburned nasty muttered comments in English,
Then helped your seasick, green butt get back on the beach, cleaned up vomit
on his panga, for probably little tip. How do I arrive at this?
You were quite proud to state, that you hire Undocumented workers in the States
for 10 bucks per hour with a FREE LUNCH and maybe a 10 buck day bonus if
they give BUWWNA a good 8 or 10, while he sits in his wicker rocker, sippin
his mint julep in the shade.
You are some of the worst Attitude carrying POS, that I've read on this respected
board. You need not ever drive the dusty road to my place.You would find a most
unwelcome greeting.

:fire:

preston - 4-15-2011 at 05:12 PM

Ahhhh .... I'm trying to figure out what quote best fits your post:

"Name calling is the last refuge of the out-argued"

or

"The very last refuge of an idiot is to call another a derogatory name"

What quote do you think describes your post best?

mike odell - 4-15-2011 at 08:35 PM

OK, I won't call ya more names than you deserve , you walkin, talkin, despicablle,
piece of beach waste, Clean nuf for ya? Get you back to your hole under the
rock where you live, Have a sheety day hosehead, arrogant dog. Thats my response
and my final comment , go forth and go away. Mike O'Dell, is my name, and I am
alway's around here and easy to find! BRING IT!

preston - 4-18-2011 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike odell
OK, I won't call ya more names than you deserve , you walkin, talkin, despicablle,
piece of beach waste, Clean nuf for ya? Get you back to your hole under the
rock where you live, Have a sheety day hosehead, arrogant dog. Thats my response
and my final comment , go forth and go away. Mike O'Dell, is my name, and I am
alway's around here and easy to find! BRING IT!

Mike:

So, let me get this straight. You add to your name calling and then you try to pick a physical fight with me!! I haven't been in a physical fight since I was in 7th or 8th grade ... some 40 years ago. Since you seem to be the fighting kind of guy, I suspect that you could probobly beat me up .... so I'll pass on your offer to fight you.

BTW: would you mind explaining to me what an "undocumented" person is? If I drive without a license or insurance am I an "undocumented driver" or am I driving illegally? If I fish without a license am I an "undocumented fisherman" or fishing illegally? If my business can't provide a customer a factura in Mexico am I an "undocumented business" or am I an illegal business?

Would appreciate the clarification.

Have a nice day.

Marc - 4-18-2011 at 09:47 PM

I f i was diving from a boat in Mexican waters I would have a fishing license and a visa.