BajaNomad - Raping of the land (and owners)

Raping of the land (and owners)

mcfez - 4-25-2011 at 08:32 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dAPuD7PJDI&feature=playe...

Woooosh - 4-25-2011 at 09:35 AM

I hope this group makes a YouTube video for Baja Norte too. Smart to do both Spanish and English versions. YouTube is the vehicle for increasing awareness of these land title and beach problems and for creating social change in Mexico.

elgatoloco - 4-25-2011 at 10:40 AM

Sad. :no:

bent-rim - 4-25-2011 at 10:54 AM

My wife and I spent a week in Cabo at a resort. We could have gone to Paris for a week for about the same amount of money. The disparity of the resorts and how the locals lived really bothered me. Never again. It's amazing to me how the Mexican's get F'ed over by the powers that be. That was a sad video to watch.

BajaNomad - 4-26-2011 at 07:53 AM

Skipjack Joe - 4-26-2011 at 09:13 AM

Really sad.

Destruction. I didn't think it would go so fast.

flyfishinPam - 4-26-2011 at 11:02 AM

I have had a big beef with this film since I first saw it. And I like Valentina I was also interviewed by her when she was making this film.

I announced the showing here that was in Loreto back in December or January I think. So I was able to see it for the first time in Spanish along with a full house, local Loretano audience, one of my kids and many UABCS students. I never spoke out then out of respect for Valentina but its been on my mente.

The movie although well done is totally depressing and defeatist. It offers no solutions other than "we're all f-ed" and "feel sorry for us"....and by the way donate to that NGO that will help the situation of these poor people. Depressing the hell out of the very people who the issue impacts most greatly is no way to motivate them to fight back, and this is the issue that I believe is most important.

We the people are being given a false sense that these doo gooder NGO's will be our salvation when in fact the opposite is true. Look who funded the film and who is promoting it you can see those "logotipos" and it may explain this alarming trend of the neutralization real momentum generating, grass roots people's movements. The ONLY movement that is having any affect albeit small, are the protests that have been taking place over La Palmilla. This was shown too briefly on this film. And its only happening because there's so little public playa left in Los Cabos. Its out of desperation now, all or nothing. Its not too late in my neck of the woods though or in many other places. So my communications to my friends, neighbors, compañeros is that only WE can get the job done ourselves. WE can be strong and our undiluted passion for our future will propel us forward against them, those that take land unconstitutionally.

Natalie Ann - 4-26-2011 at 11:08 AM

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
and a swinging hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
Put them in a tree museum
And they charged all the people
A dollar and a half just to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And they put up a parking lot
..................... Joni Mitchell, Big Yellow Taxi

nena

choyero - 4-26-2011 at 11:10 AM

The beef I had with the film, and I am not a golfer. Is the water usage issues to support the Golf courses. The film makers failed to mention that the water for the greens comes from desal plants that the golf courses paid for to build, operate and maintain.

flyfishinPam - 4-26-2011 at 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by choyero
The beef I had with the film, and I am not a golfer. Is the water usage issues to support the Golf courses. The film makers failed to mention that the water for the greens comes from desal plants that the golf courses paid for to build, operate and maintain.

Interestingly enough Valentina was the one who told me there were something like 47 approved permits to build golf courses in BCS. She was outraged. So was I. I wonder where that outrage went from the film....do not trust those who give grants to help your project, they tie your hands and they make you work towards imperialistic agendas.

slimshady - 4-26-2011 at 06:48 PM

Nothing wrong with building and developing. Don't realy care for the golf courses though. Too much water wasted and fertilizer runoff.

Barbarosa - 4-26-2011 at 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bent-rim
My wife and I spent a week in Cabo at a resort. We could have gone to Paris for a week for about the same amount of money. The disparity of the resorts and how the locals lived really bothered me. Never again. It's amazing to me how the Mexican's get F'ed over by the powers that be. That was a sad video to watch.

Sad that your Baja experience is Cabo. Baja is 1,050 miles long. Skip TJ and skip Cabo (for the obvious reasons delineated) and there's a vast glorious expanse to explore and enjoy. Hope you find the opportunity.

We've been down there numerous time. This time we concluded we've probably hit Cabo for the very last time. Like TJ, it's better skipped. But that still leaves us 1,000 glorious miles.

Here's hoping the people of Baja find a way to prevail over their land. Surely can't be trusted to us Gringos!

Barbarosa

Skipjack Joe - 4-26-2011 at 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam

Interestingly enough Valentina was the one who told me there were something like 47 approved permits to build golf courses in BCS. She was outraged. So was I. I wonder where that outrage went from the film....do not trust those who give grants to help your project, they tie your hands and they make you work towards imperialistic agendas.

What imperialistic agendas are you talking about?

The makers of this film have imperialistic agendas?

Their sin was that they made the situation seem hopeless?

flyfishinPam - 4-27-2011 at 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

What imperialistic agendas are you talking about?

The makers of this film have imperialistic agendas?

Their sin was that they made the situation seem hopeless?

If you felt that a situation was hopeless would you continue to fight? or give up? Yes, it is a sin to make people feel hopeless so they give up the fight and to neutralize anger that can be channeled into truly helping. The funders have imperialistic agendas not the film makers but accepting these funds ties one's hands. Even if the editing was done creatively and freely, that thought of securing funding from large foundations in the future still weighs heavily. I understand this is a subject that is not discussed and the reason is money, but there are some starting to open it up. I hate this situation more than most but we have to break the cycle and be open and self motivated if we are ever to move forward, peace.

edit to add:
"NGOs: In the Service of Imperialism by James Petras,, Dept. of Sociology, Binghamton University, NY" scroll down below the photos, story will be on the under
http://www.neue-einheit.com/frame/engindex1.htm
written 12 years ago with incredible applicable foresight

[Edited on 4-27-2011 by flyfishinPam]

mtgoat666 - 4-27-2011 at 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

What imperialistic agendas are you talking about?

The makers of this film have imperialistic agendas?

Their sin was that they made the situation seem hopeless?

typical rantings of a right wing nut living out of the mainstream long enough that your brain has atrophied and you now see conspiracies behind every rock.

you sound like ted kaczynski or david koresh.

do you and gnukid buy your drugs from same source??

[Edited on 4-27-2011 by mtgoat666]

TMW - 4-27-2011 at 03:55 PM

Goat you need to re-read what she said and try and understand it. This isn't a right wing or left wing problem it's a problem where people in power are taking over or they are selling out to the ones that are taking over. She wants the people affected to not feel it's hopeless but to fight it. The film where intended or not made it appear as a hopeless cause for the little guy or gal. Unfortunately those with money can often do as they please, you should know that.

flyfishinPam - 4-27-2011 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
....

Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins.

I speak of these things with first-hand knowledge and the dirt of experience under my fingernails. I live these struggles and I support my family, friends, neighbors and fellow citizens through this and I won't stop. peace.

mtgoat666 - 4-27-2011 at 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
....

name the imperialist donors that funded the subject movie.
me thinks you are an arm waving lunatic, but if you can name the funders, i will reconsider your diagnosis :lol:

Woooosh - 4-27-2011 at 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Goat you need to re-read what she said and try and understand it. This isn't a right wing or left wing problem it's a problem where people in power are taking over or they are selling out to the ones that are taking over. She wants the people affected to not feel it's hopeless but to fight it. The film where intended or not made it appear as a hopeless cause for the little guy or gal. Unfortunately those with money can often do as they please, you should know that.

The people only feel helpless because they don't know what the next step should be to get the solution they seek. No one does. Once PROFEPA, SEMARNAT, ZOFEMAT plus the PGJE and PGR all know about it and still do nothing- what's next? really. Only thing I can think of is finding individuals in those above-mentioned organizations who are like minded and willing to act on behalf of the people and the law.

flyfishinPam - 4-27-2011 at 07:29 PM

Señor Goat:

I don't know why I bother, but just look at their wordpress site:
sponsors that they listed-
http://www.fmcn.org/
http://conexionesinstitute.wordpress.com/
http://fasol-ac.org/
http://helmsleytrust.org/
http://www.conaculta.gob.mx/fpc_donativos.php
and a local NGO who does not disclose who their funders are but you can write them a note and ask them maybe they will tell you maybe not.

If you were to take the time and see the amount of competition there is for these grants and how constrictive they are you might understand where I am coming from, but you already have your opinion of me and what I am all about, without ever having met me or talked to me person to person.

And woosh, you may find like minded individuals who will truly understand your cause, like the beach building, but unfortunately they will have their hands tied. I contacted some NGO's in your area and told them of the situation of that building on the federal zone, pointed them to your video and nada. They can't do much, their boards won't let them move in a meaningful direction unfortunately. They will raise your hopes and always put you on hold, unfortunately you must continue your fight. The only way I can see is people getting together and fighting those causes that are important to them, communicating and networking in a true grass roots, unencumbered way and gaining momentum that gets the attention of the politicos who can drive those agencies you list. The government has a lot worse on its hands to think about but we all have to defend what is ours and we have to maintain the pressure if we are to make any progress. My "cause" is fisheries and jobs, yours is keeping that federal zone clear so your town can have a public beach. Don't give up! Good luck to ya.

Woosh this may help, we are starting to use this in our fight too:
http://www.starfishandspider.com/index.php?title=About_the_B...

Skipjack Joe - 4-27-2011 at 08:52 PM

As I understand it you feel that this film is designed to do the opposite of what it claims. The NGOS come up with this sort of thing in order to diffuse the change that they are advocating.

The argument goes that wealthy organizations who support development finance these NGOS in order to prevent those who are capable of stopping the development from doing just that (hence the "hopelessness" you think you see in the film).

Seems far fetched to me. Things are the opposite of what they seem. There are many who are attracted by that outlook in almost everything.

And those who are capable of making a difference? is the grass root movements?

Disagree with that as well. The native bajaenos are virtually powerless on their own. Alliances should be supported. You have a common goal despite what you think of their wealth and motives.

P.S I did read the article you provided the link to. Thank you for letting me understand better where you are coming from.

mtgoat666 - 4-28-2011 at 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
Señor Goat:

I don't know why I bother, but just look at their wordpress site:
sponsors that they listed-
http://www.fmcn.org/
http://conexionesinstitute.wordpress.com/
http://fasol-ac.org/
http://helmsleytrust.org/
http://www.conaculta.gob.mx/fpc_donativos.php
and a local NGO who does not disclose who their funders are but you can write them a note and ask them maybe they will tell you maybe not.

fishy pam:
i don't have desire to research each. please tell me which organizations have imperialist agenda. all or just a few?

mcfez - 4-28-2011 at 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
Nothing wrong with building and developing. Don't realy care for the golf courses though. Too much water wasted and fertilizer runoff.

I just bought a McDonald's franchise. Mind if I built it next door to you?

[Edited on 4-28-2011 by mcfez]

Woooosh - 4-28-2011 at 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam

Woosh this may help, we are starting to use this in our fight too:
http://www.starfishandspider.com/index.php?title=About_the_B...

I'm familiar with this social approach, but a starfish can't survive in polluted waters- let alone replicate it's independent limbs. If only it was that simple. I'll stick with producing a series of "educational YouTube videos" the starfish can use for impact once they are able to propagate.

Cypress - 4-28-2011 at 10:34 AM

Check out the song "Lochloosa" by J. J. Grey. Not Baja, but another place, equally precious.

ursidae69 - 4-29-2011 at 09:34 AM

Thanks for linking this video, that was not new news, but it is good to see the word getting out.

wessongroup - 4-29-2011 at 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
Nothing wrong with building and developing. Don't realy care for the golf courses though. Too much water wasted and fertilizer runoff.

I just bought a McDonald's franchise. Mind if I built it next door to you?

[Edited on 4-28-2011 by mcfez]

Woooosh - 4-29-2011 at 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
And woosh, you may find like minded individuals who will truly understand your cause, like the beach building, but unfortunately they will have their hands tied. I contacted some NGO's in your area and told them of the situation of that building on the federal zone, pointed them to your video and nada. They can't do much, their boards won't let them move in a meaningful direction unfortunately. They will raise your hopes and always put you on hold, unfortunately you must continue your fight. The only way I can see is people getting together and fighting those causes that are important to them, communicating and networking in a true grass roots, unencumbered way and gaining momentum that gets the attention of the politicos who can drive those agencies you list. The government has a lot worse on its hands to think about but we all have to defend what is ours and we have to maintain the pressure if we are to make any progress. My "cause" is fisheries and jobs, yours is keeping that federal zone clear so your town can have a public beach. Don't give up! Good luck to ya.

Hey Pam- appreciate all attempts to get land issues out in the open. A next step for me may be to take the advice of the FRAO office in Rosarito- to make it an expat issue. The last thing Rosarito needs is Americans with oceanfront homes complaining Mexicans steal their legal land concessions and build on the sand in front of them.

I figure the real estate market is already dead for now, so now may not be the time for the most impact to launch my issue in that forum. Can you imagine what any prospective Rosarito home buyer will say when they see the video of a guy coming out to beat an American retiree with a 2x4 for protecting the disabled beach access his family has the title to? Americans don't like that stuff much and it plays exactly to their worst fears for buying property in Mexico... corruption through inaction with a nod and a wink at the expense of expats.

flyfishinPam - 4-29-2011 at 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

well I would say your approach will be mighty affective. sounds as if this (you) could take-off in the right direction and grow like a cut off piece of a "starfish" (metaphor only) sitting on the right growth medium. that's the way man!

Cypress - 4-29-2011 at 01:17 PM

See J. J. Grey and listen to "Lochloosa". :biggrin: