BajaNomad - San Quintin Church

San Quintin Church

soccerscotty21 - 5-19-2011 at 08:47 AM

This might be sort of a reach, but I have heard that there is an LDS (mormon) church in either San Quintin or Lazaro Card##as. Anyone who is very familiar with the area know exactly where it is? Thanks.

Hi Soccerscotty21

Gypsy Jan - 5-19-2011 at 10:32 AM

According to the news release from the LDS website, they are planning to build a temple in Tijuana, but there is no info about a temple in San Quintin.

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/tijuana/

soccerscotty21 - 5-19-2011 at 11:03 AM

Yes, good news about the temple in TJ. that's awesome. There are hundreds of church buildings in mexico, several in the Baja. The temple is a place of worship for a larger geographic location, different types of services and work is performed there. Most Mormons only go to the temple every month or sometimes less often depending on how close it is. In smaller geographic locations are meetinghouses where weekly Sunday services are held. I am sure in the Baja most of these meetinghouses are small and you might not even know it was a church if you were driving past. According to the church website there is a meetinghouse risk on the transpeninsular highway in San Quentin, but then the map shows Lazaro Card##as. So i'm just trying to see if anyone has actually been there or at least noticed it when driving past. Thanks.

David K - 5-19-2011 at 07:18 PM

There are the Morman polygamist colonies in Mexico just as there are in Utah and Arizona...

I recall one near Colonia Guerrero, just north of San Quintin...

Okay, I just checked my books... In the 1970 Auto. Club guide to Baja Norte, page 27:

0.0 Colonia Guerrero

1.0 Turnoff to Colonia Mormona, and a good approach route to the sea. Look for strange windmills easily spotted from the main road, marking the location of the Mormon colony.

11.7 Valle de San Quintin. This growing village contains a PEMEX district station on the northwest side and , surprisingly, a pool hall.

15.4 Signed turnoff top Bahia de San Quintin's bayside accomodations (Ernesto's Motel and Old Mill Motel).

irenemm - 5-19-2011 at 09:22 PM

There is no Mormon Colony any more. they left in the late 80's.
It was just about 2 miles south of Vicente Guerrero in ej zarahemla. It was just over the hill from Vicente Guerrero. When you leave San Quintin for the North it will be on the west side of the road. It is now a Christian colony. It is called IDT most of the people are from Northern California.
The Mormons went to settle in Cancun when most of them left here. They had the biggest colony in Chihuahua . They were not welcome in Cancun so they returned to just Chihuahua. At one time discovery channel did a program about them and here in this town. One brother killed the other to be the leader here.
When i first moved here 3 of the ladies from there would come over here to sell butter, cheese and cakes. We did at that time buy them for the Restaurant. They all had the same husband. He had 10 wifes then and 77 kids. I talked to him once when he was in town. Not really my kind of person. But his wifes were really nice ladies. But real Mormons not really because they would drink coffee with me. Not allowed no caffeine.
there are still a few Mormons here with just 1 wife. I have never heard of a Mormon Temple here not even in the 80's.

soccerscotty21 - 5-19-2011 at 10:00 PM

Yeah its probably nothing big. its likely only a group of 20 or so people who get together, possibly in a rented out building. A lot of small meetinghouses are like this. You would probably have to be a memeber/ex-member to know where it is. Hopefully we will get lucky and find it this sunday. Thanks for all your help.

irenemm - 5-19-2011 at 10:14 PM

let me check with my daughter and see if she knows. Her friend from elementary school married a Mormon.
email me
posadadondiego@yahoo.com

Irene

David K - 5-20-2011 at 07:40 AM

Irene, that is an awesome update of Colonia Mormona history... thank you!

irenemm - 5-20-2011 at 09:14 PM

soccerscotty21,
Just to let you know they do have a Church/Temple in EJ Zarahemla. There are still many Mormons in the Area. I was told you can not miss it as you drive in and many people over there speak english. But you should have no problem to find it.
@David lots of history over the hill from here. Still a few families with a few spare wifes. But like before. All the people I new from there are gone and they were such nice ladies.

drive careful and enjoy the adventure

David K - 5-21-2011 at 07:25 AM

Any of the 'strange' windmills still there?

baronvonbob - 5-21-2011 at 11:00 AM

I just went down and looked, there is an LDS Brass plaque on a large building at the South end of Lazaro Card##as, right at the City Limits on the East side of the street, next to an orange colored sea food restaurant.

Doug/Vamonos - 5-22-2011 at 08:29 AM

Correct. I've noticed it a couple times as I drove past. Doesn't look like a church but you will see the typical plaque.

bajamedic - 5-22-2011 at 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Any of the 'strange' windmills still there?

Sorry I am out of the loop, but strange windmills? JH

David K - 5-22-2011 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamedic

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Any of the 'strange' windmills still there?

Sorry I am out of the loop, but strange windmills? JH

It is what the Auto Club guide of 1970 said (see my post above, and here again):

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
There are the Morman polygamist colonies in Mexico just as there are in Utah and Arizona...

I recall one near Colonia Guerrero, just north of San Quintin...

Okay, I just checked my books... In the 1970 Auto. Club guide to Baja Norte, page 27:

0.0 Colonia Guerrero

1.0 Turnoff to Colonia Mormona, and a good approach route to the sea. Look for strange windmills easily spotted from the main road, marking the location of the Mormon colony.

11.7 Valle de San Quintin. This growing village contains a PEMEX district station on the northwest side and , surprisingly, a pool hall.

15.4 Signed turnoff top Bahia de San Quintin's bayside accomodations (Ernesto's Motel and Old Mill Motel).

BajaGringo - 5-22-2011 at 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baronvonbob
I just went down and looked, there is an LDS Brass plaque on a large building at the South end of Lazaro Card##as, right at the City Limits on the East side of the street, next to an orange colored sea food restaurant.

They recently fixed up the place but I have never actually seen what appears to be anybody having services there???

That seafood place is actually quite good and gives you a lot of food for the money...

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-22-2011 at 11:08 AM

Day of Vengeance

Ervil had too much time to think and plot while he was locked up, and shortly after he was released, he published a new fire-and-brimstone essay called "Hour of Crisis - Day of Vengeance."

Written in pompous-sounding King James English, the tract was barely coherent. Only after the Firstborners read and reread it were they able to eke out its meaning. It was essentially a list of demands on the Firstborn church. Among other things, he demanded that the congregation fork over their tithes directly to him, according to Bradlee and Van Atta.
"It is a criminal offense, punishable by death, for an enlightened people to pay tithes and offerings to thieves and robbers (and other fundamentalist leaders), Ervil wrote. "The sword of vengeance (will) hang over the heads of all those who should fail to hear the word of the Lord. Willful failure to comply with (the book's) minimum requirements constitutes the crime of rebellion against God."
In other words, anyone who didn't pay dues to Ervil should die.
While Ervil was in prison, his mother wrote him that he "should not be in jail, but in a mental hospital," and from his latest diatribe, it certainly appeared that Ervil was suffering from delusions of grandeur.
His ultimatum was met by a wall of silence, and Ervil decided the apostates must be punished. He told his followers that he'd had yet another revelation: they must destroy Los Molinos.
The day after Christmas, he sent his footsoldiers across the border into Baja under cover of night, bearing firebombs and assault weapons. As some 30 Firstborn families gathered around their wood-burning stoves or tucked their children into bed, a pickup truck and a Fiat turned onto the dirt road leading to the quiet farming commune, cut their headlights, and slowed to a crawl. The temperatures hovered near freezing that night, and smoke rose from the chimneys of the cozy homes into the dark blue sky.
The peaceful tableau was shattered by a Molotov c-cktail crashing through the window of the town's largest house, according to Anderson. Within seconds, the wood-framed house was engulfed in fire. The occupants ran outside, and in the confusion that followed, Ervil's thugs sprayed bullets over the people racing to form a water brigade, their figures silhouetted against the dancing orange flames.
The assailants barreled through the settlement throwing more firebombs into homes as they made their way toward their primary target: Verlan's abode. The Firstborn leader wasn't home, but his wife Charlotte and six of their children were. When they saw the truck with five armed men in the back making an erratic beeline for their house, they ran to hide in a dark orchard while the men shot up their house and set it on fire.
The 20-minute onslaught left two men dead, 13 people wounded, and Ervil spitting mad because his brother was still alive.

Total World Domination

Ervil's plans kept getting bigger. After taking over Los Molinos, he wanted to take over the governments of Mexico and the United States, and eventually rule the world.
He decided to finance his bid for total world domination by killing his religious rivals and stealing their business.
At this point, the Lamb of God church consisted largely of his Ervil's wives and progeny. But there were also enough outsiders to keep the baby propagation going, and like an ancient king, Ervil controlled the "romantic" liaisons in his realm. He had first dibs on the females, arranged marriages between subjects, and gave away his daughters to men he wanted to cement relationships with or reward for good behavior.
The ever-expanding clan moved to Utah, where Ervil dropped in on the patriarchs of other polygamous tribes and demanded they give him 10% of their earnings... or die. The patriarchs told him to get lost.
Meanwhile, back in Los Molinos, the Firstborn families were sleeping with guns by their sides and had organized patrols to watch their property. Verlan was living in a safe house in San Diego.
Ervil had moles firmly planted amid the Firstborners who reported back to him on these activities. But some of these people started getting nervous after the raid. One of them was Noemi Zarate, a plural wife of one of Ervil's close associates. Noemi got a bad case of loose lips and complained about the violence, threatening to tell the police the location of Ervil's whereabouts. With the full blessing of Noemi's husband, Ervil decided to shut her up once and for all, and dispatched one of his wives, Vonda White, to assassinate her, Anderson writes.
The two women had known each other for years, so it wasn't hard for Vonda to convince Noemi to go for a spin in her car on a chilly January evening in 1975. They drove to a canyon in the foothills of the rugged San Pedro (Martir) Mountains. In that dark canyon, Vonda pumped the mother of five full of bullets before she could beg for mercy. Another of Ervil's wives, Yolanda Rios - who would herself be murdered a decade later - helped Vonda dig a shallow grave among the creosote bushes, into which they dumped Noemi's body. It has never been found. "You don't know how pleased the Lord is that that traitor is dead!" Ervil rejoiced when he heard the news.

irenemm - 5-22-2011 at 06:32 PM

Oh never hear all that. I just know what happened in EJ Zarahemla.

soccerscotty21 did you find the Church in Zarahemla?

David K - 5-22-2011 at 06:45 PM

Irene, about the windmills (see above)?

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-22-2011 at 06:58 PM

Irene, it happened many long years ago in Ejido Zarahemla when it was called Colonia Los Molinos because of the homemade windmills the polygamist built. Unfortunately my brother Eddie was one of those involved with Ervil LeBaron and helped commit the bloodshed at the colony with several others. Eddie was subsequently murdered several years later by the son of my mother Anna Mae and Ervil LeBaron and our half-brother Heber LeBaron who is now doing life in prison in Texas. Back then the Colony was administered by Alma LeBaron Sr. one of Ervil LeBaron’s brothers. If you ask them they will tell you about what happened. I went to them for aid and comfort back when I was a homeless kid in the late 60’s but once they found out my mother was Anna Mae they chased me away causing me to go to the beach down the road and become a clam digger.

irenemm - 5-22-2011 at 07:11 PM

Oh I never new it was called Los Molinos.
I can not remember the guy in charge in the 80 his last name was Jones his first name I am hot sure. I have a story about him maybe some time if you stop by. He was here maybe about 4 or so years ago. He wants to claim all the hill because he said it is the EJ and it is his. My husband told him go for it. said he was to old to start it now.
I knew there was a shoot out there but when you said Los Molinos I thought maybe south pass Card##as when the Restaurant was. But knew that was Sr. Vela's and never hear about the Mormons there.
I am sorry you had to go through so many things as a child. Some things make us much stronger people. I hope it make you stronger.
Please stop by sometime and see me. I would like to meet you. Just all of next month I will be gone. On my own adventure.

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-22-2011 at 07:19 PM

Irene I will be down in October for Mama Espinoza's birthday. Thanks for the invite.
David

BajaGringo - 5-22-2011 at 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irenemm
...Just all of next month I will be gone. On my own adventure.

Taking a burro with you???

:lol:

irenemm - 5-23-2011 at 06:32 PM

@ David I will be gone part of Oct. to Guadalajara for 2 weeks.

@ gingo. It might feel like it just 2 teenager. cross country trip for graduation gift

What history

John M - 5-23-2011 at 08:33 PM

Quite a story David E.

Thanks for sharing the horrid details of it all.

John M

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-24-2011 at 03:55 AM

John I pulled that from the link below. That link has all the horrid details of Ervil LeBaron the EVIL Scum-bag!

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classic...

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-24-2011 at 03:57 AM

Ok Irene! I will be coming down every now and again so we'll meet one of these days.

soccerscotty21 - 5-30-2011 at 10:31 AM

Wow that lebaron story is intense. Those people were obviously horrible people who were in no way affiliated with the actual mormon (LDS) church, but they were offshoots. Mormons don't practice polygamy at all and anyone that does is excommunicated from the church. Anyways, Irene sorry for not stopping by, we ended up staying further south in order to be closer to bola. I am pretty sure i know where the church is now, because i saw a sign for the area ej. zarahembla. Zarahemla is an ancient city from the book of mormon, so i am assuming the mormon colony is out there and possibly the meetinghouse for the real church (not the offshoots) anyways, next time we go down we will have to check it out. thanks for all your help.

irenemm - 5-30-2011 at 02:35 PM

soccerscotty21
I know they are not real Mormons. We had very good friends in Utah when I was a kid.
That Ej has some Mormons still living there and a large group of Christians from Lodi, CA.
Your welcome hope to see you sometime
enjoy the adventure and drive safely

Bob53 - 8-28-2014 at 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamedic

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Any of the 'strange' windmills still there?

Sorry I am out of the loop, but strange windmills? JH

It is what the Auto Club guide of 1970 said (see my post above, and here again):

Quote:

I took this picture of the so called strange windmill back in 1983 on my way to camp on the beach near Ej Zarahemla.

[Edited on 8-29-2014 by BajaNomad]

David K - 8-28-2014 at 05:41 PM

Oh way cool! Thank you Bob!

Bob53 - 8-28-2014 at 05:44 PM

You're quite welcome! Better late than never. lol

[Edited on 8-29-2014 by Bob53]

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-29-2014 at 05:54 AM

I remember those windmills from my youth. They used plywood as the blades to turn them to bring up the water. From my recollection the water brought up from the wells was slightly salty.

chuckie - 8-29-2014 at 06:53 AM

I believe Heber LeBaron is now incarcerated at the Max Security prison in Florence Colorado. I saw a small article about a church he had started there. Since becoming acquainted with Msgt Mar-ston, I have read a number of books on the subject of the Ervil LeBaron cult. Fascinating, tragic and brutal. David was fortunate to have left.

luv2fish - 8-29-2014 at 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
I believe Heber LeBaron is now incarcerated at the Max Security prison in Florence Colorado. I saw a small article about a church he had started there. Since becoming acquainted with Msgt Mar-ston, I have read a number of books on the subject of the Ervil LeBaron cult. Fascinating, tragic and brutal. David was fortunate to have left.

This thing just came up again the otter day. Funny I was thinking about all the bad things they put the innocent young lil investigator through. Todo se paga...

http://www.vice.com/vice-news/the-mexican-mormon-war-part-1

Cliffy - 8-29-2014 at 05:46 PM

"Under the Banner of Heaven" interesting book on Mormons.