BajaNomad - Charlie Rose interviews President Calderon

Charlie Rose interviews President Calderon

Iflyfish - 5-30-2011 at 10:22 AM

Very interesting and thoughtful interview:

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11664

His vision of the future of Mexico is very compelling and fits with my perception of Mexico's new prosperity after spending time on the mainland.

Iflyfish

drarroyo - 5-30-2011 at 12:21 PM

excellent
salut

REALLY!

baja1943 - 5-30-2011 at 02:08 PM

http://www.time.com/magazine/article/0,9171,868097,00.html

Iflyfish - 5-30-2011 at 02:25 PM

The changes I see in Baja are also striking. I am paricularly impressed with the availability of consumer goods and construction, Walmart, Home Depot, Costco etc. and lots of people shopping in them. This has changed dramaticaly in the 45 years I have been traveling mainland Mexico and Baja.

On the mainland I witnessed scores of upscale, by Mexican standards, housing developments and international commercial interests. On the mainland too I saw a much wider range of consumer goods and big box stores i.e. Costco, Home Depot etc. that were packed with shoppers.

Mexico is indeed poised for a major spurt of development with international corporations locating in the country.

The one hinderance to all of this is of course the pitched battle that is going on with the narcotrafficantes. I appreciated Calderon's analysis of the role of US arms in the problem and his openess to legalization of drugs in the US, which he sees as probably lowering prices and having a negative affect on the war that is currently raging. His analysis is that this would not be a good policy for Mexico, which is primarily a producer with the majority of its production being consumed in the USofA.

This is the first time I have seen an indepth interview with Calderon, who is a very thoughtful person as is Charlie Rose.

Iflyfish

JESSE - 5-30-2011 at 02:39 PM

Thank god he only has one year left.

drarroyo - 5-30-2011 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Thank god he only has one year left.

yea ... 'cause there's SO many better alternatives waiting in the wings.
wake up

gnukid - 5-30-2011 at 04:53 PM

Keeping in mind that Charlie Rose meets privately with people such as Calderon, he attends Bohemian Grove events together with them and his friends. Friendly softball chats that promote an agreed on storyline is not journalism, it's call propaganda and likely has nothing to do with reality as much as a programmed message. In this case you are seeing and hearing a repeated message, which is "integration" is the only option for North America to solve the problems that are orchestrated.

With the money, time and energy going into the promoting this storyline, you'd think they could have at least used some facts, but no, Calderon threw around some numbers claiming that the Per Person Purchasing Power is comparable to an income of $15k annual income, or that actual annual income average is $10k these are mentioned as two statistics demonstrating the strength of the Mexican economy.

Other facts in question are that Mexico's violence is due to weapons sales on the border and that it's drug trade is due to USA's appetite.

Conversely, it's Mexico's independence from the USA that is it's economic strength and lack of support for the USA military industrial complex which further reduces it waste of resources.

Calfornia crime is largely a component of Mexican immigrants with foreign Nationals making up a large portion of prison populations, and most unsolved murders have Mexican nationals named as suspects who are on the run in Mexico, though not extraditable due to the USA's capital punishment program which Mexico does not support.

It should not be hard to see this interview for what it is and what it isn't. It's a promotion for integration of North America which is not based in facts or truth, but does touch on emotional points.

Pretty much need to broaden your sources of facts, outside of Charlie Rose and Calderon in order to open a reasonable discussion about Mexico.

[Edited on 5-30-2011 by gnukid]

JESSE - 5-30-2011 at 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drarroyo

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Thank god he only has one year left.

yea ... 'cause there's SO many better alternatives waiting in the wings.
wake up

Calderon has been a complete and utter DISASTER for this nation, and yes, theres a lot of better alternatives waiting in the wings.

I can't wait until we rid ourselves of this pathetic presidente we have.

drarroyo - 5-30-2011 at 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by drarroyo

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Thank god he only has one year left.

yea ... 'cause there's SO many better alternatives waiting in the wings.
wake up

I don't believe that for a second.
You sound like the rest of the understandably jaded older generation.
This is about laying groundwork for a generation yet to be conceived (sp)
Stick to cooking up animals vato. :lol:

JESSE - 5-30-2011 at 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drarroyo

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by drarroyo

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Thank god he only has one year left.

yea ... 'cause there's SO many better alternatives waiting in the wings.
wake up

I am 37, and what groundwork are you talking about? its been 11 years since the PAN took power, and they are still laying groundwork? thats pathetic!!

Calderon has done absolutely nothing to get this country in the direction it needs. Starting a war on drugs supporting one cartel and fighting the others, thinking that when HIS cartel won the violence would end?? what has he done to end the monopolistic practices of Slim? Azcarraga? Salinas? Saba? Maseca? etc etc etc?? wheres the labor reform? the social security reform? the justice reform? why is Garcia Luna still head of the federal police after so many failures and suspicions of corruption?? why do federal loans and programs only seem to benefit friends of PAN members? why is he still cozy with labor leader (cancer to this nation) Elba Esther Gordillo?

The president has failed, and he has failed almost at everything, the only thing he has left is to blame others, but HE IS the president, we voted for him, and he hasnt delivered, so move out, get out of the way, and lets see if we can find someone to do the job he couldnt do.

DENNIS - 5-30-2011 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
its been 11 years since the PAN took power, and they are still laying groundwork? thats pathetic!!

Calderon has done absolutely nothing to get this country in the direction it needs. Starting a war on drugs supporting one cartel and fighting the others, thinking that when HIS cartel won the violence would end?? what has he done to end the monopolistic practices of Slim? Azcarraga? Salinas? Saba? Maseca? etc etc etc?? wheres the labor reform? the social security reform? the justice reform? why is Garcia Luna still head of the federal police after so many failures and suspicions of corruption?? why do federal loans and programs only seem to benefit friends of PAN members? why is he still cozy with labor leader (cancer to this nation) Elba Esther Gordillo?

The president has failed, and he has failed almost at everything, the only thing he has left is to blame others, but HE IS the president, we voted for him, and he hasnt delivered, so move out, get out of the way, and lets see if we can find someone to do the job he couldnt do.

One of, if not the most insightful posts I've ever seen on this site. Thanks, Jesse.

drarroyo - 5-30-2011 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
[
Calderon has been a complete and utter DISASTER for this nation, and yes, theres a lot of better alternatives waiting in the wings.

I can't wait until we rid ourselves of this pathetic presidente we have.

you're sounding like american youth wanting instant gratification!
I think a lot may have got lost in translation?
This is LONG TERM stuff here.
I thought you were early 30's (good genes? :lol

JESSE - 5-30-2011 at 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drarroyo

Quote:

you're sounding like american youth wanting instant gratification!
I think a lot may have got lost in translation?
This is LONG TERM stuff here.
I thought you were early 30's (good genes? :lol

Nope, my previous generation waited for 70 yrs and did nothing, i am not about to sit and wait for the "LONG TERM" like you suggest and waste another 70yrs. I want results, and if a politician can't provide them, then get out!!!

bajatravelergeorge - 5-30-2011 at 08:15 PM

IMO, Calderon just wants it to cost the cartels more money to buy off judges, police, generals, etc. That extra money gets pumped into the economy, which is taxed, which then increases the revenue for him to spend, and line his pockets with. Heaven forbid if the demand went away. If there's no war, there's no reason for the cartels to spend more to bribe the officials.

It won't matter who you put into power, they will all do the same thing. Its the smart business decision to make, and make no mistake about it, this is a business. He just wants his piece of the pie, and he has an army to help him get it.

Hook - 5-30-2011 at 08:43 PM

Jesse, the man asked you about better alternatives to Calderon and his plans. How much longer are you going to dance around that question, with all the things Calderon didnt do?

Tell us about your new love of the PRI. Or maybe the rebirth of AMLO? The Communist Workers Party?

BTW, which cartel is it that you feel Calderon favors? I've asked you this before and you've just ignored the question. Let's hear it, finally.

JESSE - 5-30-2011 at 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Jesse, the man asked you about better alternatives to Calderon and his plans. How much longer are you going to dance around that question, with all the things Calderon didnt do?

Tell us about your new love of the PRI. Or maybe the rebirth of AMLO? The Communist Workers Party?

BTW, which cartel is it that you feel Calderon favors? I've asked you this before and you've just ignored the question. Let's hear it, finally.

Fact is, Calderon has failed, the PAN has failed, and it has become a bad copy of the PRI. I am not happy at all that as a lifelong supporter of the PAN, I am completely disappointed with the way they have handled things. Now having said that, I am not happy at all as well about having to look at the PRI or the PRD for an improvement. But theres no other choice, I can’t keep supporting a government that has failed to live up to expectations. The PRI has Peña Nieto, and you can say anything about the man, but fact is that his successor is 30pts ahead of the nearest rival, that is a huge lead. You can’t be a bad politician and have such a commanding lead over your rivals, the man has the support of his voters, so he is on to something. The PRD has two choices, if it goes with Lopez Obrador, they are dead, if they nominate Marcelo Ebrard, they have a chance, Marcelo is one of the few serious and respected politicians in the PRD, and could win the presidential election. I am willing to go with either Peña Nieto or Ebrard, but I am punishing the PAN this coming election.

Theres been a long suspicion that Calderon favors the Sinaloa cartel, theres plenty of info in the matter, its up to you to decide. I personally think theres some truth to the accusations.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1269068...

http://neglectedwar.com/blog/archives/3797

JESSE - 5-30-2011 at 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drarroyo

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
**************************

**********************

HAHAHA yea the responses to the Rose interview have been fact laden. 'cause Jesse & Paul have the inside scoop! now THAT's funny.

Mexico is a huge place. You should get out more and see what's happening to this nation (albeit slowly, but that's how it rolls SOB yo)
besos

40,000 murders, innocent women and children getting killed more often, violence slowly but steadily growing all over the place, cartels getting stronger and more violent, tourism going down the drain, companies don't want to invest here anymore, corruption is up, the rich still have their monopolies.

Yeah, its a great and beautiful nation where the PAN has taken us.

[Edited on 5-31-2011 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 5-31-2011 at 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
my previous generation waited for 70 yrs and did nothing, i am not about to sit and wait for the "LONG TERM" like you suggest and waste another 70yrs. I want results, and if a politician can't provide them, then get out!!!

guns and butter!

Iflyfish - 5-31-2011 at 07:18 AM

I very much appreciate the perspectives offered here.

I too have grave worries about the "War on Drugs" that is being waged in the USofA. It is clear to me that the real game changer would be legalization of drugs in the USofA and deal with the aftermath with medical intervention and social stigma which have worked with tobacco. Drug use will not go away. Dealing with it at the consumption end offers in my opinion the best hope.

I appreciate your perspectives Jesse, gnukid and others who have posted. This dialogue provides us, who are not Mexicans, with a broader view of how politics are seen in Mexico. These are dynamic issues and must be viewed in context.

I still maintain that the economy of Mexico has improved significantly and that the future is very bright for manufacturing and the development of a middle class. I have seen this with my own eyes and baja1943's post expands my mainland observations by providing statistics related to Baja.

I have over time expressed grave concerns about the possibility of Mexico becoming a failed state. The consequences of this would have a profound impact on all of the Americas. What I have not been clear about is the impressive prosperity I saw on my last trip to the mainland and Baja. The "take home" for me from all of this is that there coexists both a major war in Mexico and a growing prosperity. I think both are true. How much this is a result of NAFTA, world trade or government policy is not resolved in my mind. The attention to the highway infrastructure of the Calderon administration and the support of international manufacturing may be the single most important contributions of the Calderon administration. I have not seen much evidence of a change in the Napoleanic code, court proceedings or corruption in Mexico. I may be wrong in this as I do not live in Mexico and am only a guest when I visit.

We missed by less than an hour the seige of Morelia on our way to the Monarch reserves so I also have personal experience with the reality of the war in Mexico. The deaths, kidnappings and such are very real indeed. Again I think that the US changing it's drug laws will have the biggest affect on this horrible situation.

Iflyfish

DavidE - 5-31-2011 at 11:30 AM

Godamnit!

Screw the sicarios killing each other. It's extortionists, kidnappers, carjackers, protection rackets, and organized crime sanctioning neighborhood FRANCHISES for criminals that is hurting honest citizens. How would you like to be freakin' awakened at midnight by a knock on your door by a group of thugs that announce that for say a thousand pesos mensual your home would be free of breakins, and home invasions?

You guys are fixated on godammned drugs! Drugs are but a COMPONENT of the misery down here. Not a key, not a foundations, merely another brick in the wall.

Legalized drugs will do Z-E-R-O to reduce the crime rate against citizens, get it through your skull that the end of prohibition did Z-E-R-O to end the mafia in the USA.

Caleron is trying his best to thwart organized crime not just "Drug Cartels". Thugs have cops quaking in their boots an they refuse to respond to normal emergency calls.

Damn it must be nice to sit in another country and pontificate about what is wrong in another. Try living HERE and not THERE. I mean LIVE, for months and years not just a week's vacation.

Thank You For The Cahnce To Rant.

JESSE - 5-31-2011 at 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Godamnit!

Screw the sicarios killing each other. It's extortionists, kidnappers, carjackers, protection rackets, and organized crime sanctioning neighborhood FRANCHISES for criminals that is hurting honest citizens. How would you like to be freakin' awakened at midnight by a knock on your door by a group of thugs that announce that for say a thousand pesos mensual your home would be free of breakins, and home invasions?

You guys are fixated on godammned drugs! Drugs are but a COMPONENT of the misery down here. Not a key, not a foundations, merely another brick in the wall.

Legalized drugs will do Z-E-R-O to reduce the crime rate against citizens, get it through your skull that the end of prohibition did Z-E-R-O to end the mafia in the USA.

Caleron is trying his best to thwart organized crime not just "Drug Cartels". Thugs have cops quaking in their boots an they refuse to respond to normal emergency calls.

Damn it must be nice to sit in another country and pontificate about what is wrong in another. Try living HERE and not THERE. I mean LIVE, for months and years not just a week's vacation.

Thank You For The Cahnce To Rant.

The main power behind the drug cartels are the HUGE amounts of cash they use to corrupt and buy guns, and only drugs can provide that cash flow. Legalizing drugs would ABSOLUTELY take away their cash flow, wich could not be replaced by gambling, kidnapping, etc etc

Without drugs, the cartels would be much weaker,and much more easy to deal with.

Bajahowodd - 5-31-2011 at 01:09 PM

Random thoughts:

Did not the PRD come "this" close to winning that last presidential election?

Are not both the PRD and PRI fundamentally democratic socialist parties, with the PRD running a bit to the left of PRI?

Is PAN really the only right leaning party in Mexico?

Didn't Calderon get a masters degree from Harvard?

We already kinda know what those Ivy League guys have done running the US.

Did not Calderon's predecessor Fox actually take that first swing at the hornet's nest with his bat? I refer to the cartels.

Supposing that as a small businesman, Jesse would support a right of center, business oriented party, seems to me that much of why the Calderon era is left wanting, is the simple fact that PAN has not been able to gain a majority in either house of the Mexican congress.

In my opinion, and with a somewhat limited perspective, it would seem to me that any supposed cozying between the right of center president and a national labor leader would reflect more negatively on labor.

CortezBlue - 5-31-2011 at 01:46 PM

Quote:

Didn't Calderon get a masters degree from Harvard?

We already kinda know what those Ivy League guys have done running the US.

I don't think Obama was an Ivy League guy :lol:

JoeJustJoe - 5-31-2011 at 01:56 PM

Quote:

Wrong!

How can you say, Drugs are but a COMPONENT of the misery?' Drugs are the driving force of the Mexican drug cartels, and drugs are the bread and butter. All the other things the drug cartels are involved in extortionists, kidnappers, carjackers, protection rackets...and other vices all pale in comparison of the kind of money illicit drugs bring to the Mexican drug cartels.

If Mexico legalized or decriminalized the illegal drugs it would deal a serious blow to the Mexico drug cartel businesses just like it hurt Al Capone and the Mafia when they ended Prohibition in the 30's and it radically decreased his Mafia's annual income. It wasn't the FBI and Eliot Ness that dealt serious blows the the Mafia. It was the end of Prohibition that weakened the Mafia and all the bloodshed of the era.

Sure the drug cartels could do other criminal actives but things like kidnapping are time consuming and depending on who you kidnap the income isn't that great.

The only thing not working is the Mexico/US "war on drugs" and really the USA needs to work on the "demand" side and the American citizen's insatiable appetite for illicit drugs which has the Mexican drug cartels falling all over themselves trying to serve the demand of junkies from America. It doesn't help either that the USA is supplying the Mexican drug cartels with all those weapons and limitless amount of cash from buying drugs.
-------------------------

From Wikipedia The Mafia during Prohibition

By the 1920s The United States and the provinces within Canada had adopted prohibition (a law forbidding the sale of alcohol).[1] It was during that era that North America gave birth to some of the largest crime syndicates, most vicious criminals, and mafia leaders. Al Capone, Bugs Moran, Johnny Torrio, The Purple Gang, and Peter Licavoli became household names.[2] For the Mafia and the gangsters, prohibition meant employment, easy money, good times, shiny new cars, and new suits.[3] The tainted money, prostitution, loan sharking, bookmarking, extortion and other criminal rackets paled in comparison to the intake from bootlegging.[4] Prohibition created an atmosphere that allowed crime to fester, an atmosphere which the mafia exploited.

[Edited on 5-31-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

GrOUper-GAr - 5-31-2011 at 02:49 PM

Quote:

10 years ago, It was hard to find in Baja. Now, you see it even in remote campos, small towns, and non-border cities.
For areas basically forced to police themselves,

Meth is a game changer. (& with it comes its Tw!sted LogiC & whack criminal FaLLout).

To call THIS drug, "just another brick in the wall", is a total understatement.

CortezBlue - 5-31-2011 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

If Mexico legalized or decriminalized the illegal drugs it would deal a serious blow to the Mexico drug cartel businesses just like it hurt Al Capone and the Mafia when they ended Prohibition in the 30's and it radically decreased his Mafia's annual income. It wasn't the FBI and Eliot Ness that dealt serious blows the the Mafia. It was the end of Prohibition that weakened the Mafia and all the bloodshed of the era.

Mexico decriminalized drugs a few years ago.

The problem is the USA, if you look at the supply and demand model.

As long as there is a demand someone will try to supply it.

motoged - 5-31-2011 at 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue

Quote:

Didn't Calderon get a masters degree from Harvard?
We already kinda know what those Ivy League guys have done running the US.

I don't think Obama was an Ivy League guy :lol:

He must have been referring to George Dubya....sh#t-faced and snorting lines while working on his degree....THAT guy !!! :lol:

DENNIS - 5-31-2011 at 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue
Mexico decriminalized drugs a few years ago.

I always thought that was more "lip service" than anything else. Never heard anything more about it. If there actually is something to it, I doubt Joe Tourist will ever know about it.

Anyway....it's Mexico, a foolish place to believe anything.

Bajahowodd - 5-31-2011 at 03:31 PM

"After growing up in Morelia, Calderón moved to Mexico City, where he received a bachelor's degree in law from the Escuela Libre de Derecho. Later, he received a master's degree in economics from the Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México (ITAM) and a Master of Public Administration in 2000 from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University." -wiki

'nuff said.

Iflyfish - 5-31-2011 at 05:42 PM

I am sickened to my core about the killing, kidnapping, torture and terror caused by the Cartels. I love Mexico and have traveled for over 45 years through out the Republic. I am heartsick to see this country that I love degraded and the population living in fear of these psycho and sociopaths who work for the Cartels. I do not live in Mexico and so am not living on a daily basis with the sort of terror that you must live with. I have not had to move from my home in the face of this sort of horror.

I care deeply about the fact that there are places that I love that I can no longer visit. I considered retiring in Mexico. I have family that I love in Mexico. Mexico is a part of me.

Listening to Calderon discussing the situation with Charlie Rose raised for me two very important issues. One is that there is an increased prosperity in Mexico and there is a bright future for Mexico developing a middle class and I saw that with my own eyes. Secondly I missed the siege of Morelia by less than an hour and saw first hand some of the devistation caused by this one battle with La Familia. This is not a matter of idle speculation on my part. I have family in Mexico.

What I gathered from Calderon's comments was that he was open to legalization of drugs in the USofA, not in Mexico. I too question the wisdom of legalization in Mexico with out legalization in the USofA, the largest consumer of illicit drugs and the major source of revenue and weapons for the Cartels.

I can understand the outrage toward the Cartels and also why my comments may be seen as pontificating from afar. I do however live in the USofA and believe that our side of the border needs desperately to change its drug laws so that the problem of addiction can be dealt with via medical intervention and social stigma. In my opinion this offers the best hope to undermine the Cartels in Mexico.

The end of Prohibition did not ELIMINATE the Mafia, it did however weaken it significantly and many in the business put their money into legitimate enterprises including the manufacture and sale of alcohol i.e. the Kennedy Family etc. There is a huge amount of cash in Mexico that currently needs to be laundered that could be invested in legitimate enterprise and contribute to the overall economy of that great country.

Drugs and criminals will not go away. I do however believe that the enterprise named the "War on Drugs" is a total failure that underlies much of the problem that we see. Sometimes the solution becomes the problem. I believe that this is the case with the "War on Drugs".

The USofA did not enforce a death penalty for kidnapping till after the high profile Lindberg case and I would also advocate for such a penalty in Mexico. This law greatly reduced the incidence of kidnapping in the USofA.

The legal system in Mexico must also be overhauled in my opinion if real justice is to become part of the fabric of the country. I believe what Calderon says about this is spot on. There are however entrenched and powerful interests that mitigate against such reform. The old system is rife with corruption and will be difficult to change.

There are no simple solutions to these issues and that is clear. It is also clear to this writer that the "War on Drugs" is a very expensive failure.

The Colombians used Death Squads may be repeating itself in Mexico. This is a two edged sword but is one idea that is at times supported by some on this board. Once the Dogs of War are released it is never clear who they will bite.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/03/evidence-of-extrajudic...

Again I believe that the only approach that has a chance of changing the paradigm is legalization of drugs in the USofA.

Iflyfish