BajaNomad - the "Baja Image Committee"

the "Baja Image Committee"

teadust - 6-16-2011 at 11:09 AM

"We can’t speak for all of Mexico, although we believe the violence in Mexico takes place in only 5 percent of the country, certainly not Baja."

—Expats Look to Improve Image of Baja

Woooosh - 6-16-2011 at 11:18 AM

And what do you expect propaganda to sound like? The world economy is in the chitter and Mexico thinks they are being unfairly picked on. The Baja real estate market isn't coming back in our lifetime. Tourism is a function of how people feel about their financial situations. Unless you are a vacation destination of the rich and famous- you will be left out.

[Edited on 6-16-2011 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 6-16-2011 at 11:38 AM

Woooosh.....what this committee of self-serving people don't know, they don't want to know. Believe me....I know.

jenny.navarrette - 6-16-2011 at 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by teadust
"We can’t speak for all of Mexico, although we believe the violence in Mexico takes place in only 5 percent of the country, certainly not Baja."

20% of the population of Mexico lives in a community were the homicide rate was greater than 25 per 100,000. The homicide rate in the US is 5 per 100,000.

40% of the population of Mexico lives in a community were the homicide rate was greater than 15 per 100,000, which is three time the homicide rate in the US.

80% of the population of Mexico lives in a community were the homicide rate was greater than the homicide rate in the US.

It is so easy to lie when nobody checks your numbers.

Dave - 6-16-2011 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
And what do you expect propaganda to sound like? The world economy is in the chitter and Mexico thinks they are being unfairly picked on. The Baja real estate market isn't coming back in our lifetime. Tourism is a function of how people feel about their financial situations. Unless you are a vacation destination of the rich and famous- you will be left out.

[Edited on 6-16-2011 by Woooosh]

I fail to understand why ex-pats would care about tourism. Most I talk with wish that tourists stayed away. Most of 'em want peace and quiet. I would also think that tourism would be a hindrance to the real estate market.

teadust - 6-16-2011 at 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jenny.navarrette

20% of the population of Mexico lives in a community were the homicide rate was greater than 25 per 100,000. The homicide rate in the US is 5 per 100,000.

40% of the population of Mexico lives in a community were the homicide rate was greater than 15 per 100,000, which is three time the homicide rate in the US.

80% of the population of Mexico lives in a community were the homicide rate was greater than the homicide rate in the US.

It is so easy to lie when nobody checks your numbers.

I concur, and am wondering where that chart originated? Was it published by U.S. organization, or one in Mexico? I'd like to learn more about the data used to produce that. Cheers.

DENNIS - 6-16-2011 at 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
I would also think that tourism would be a hindrance to the real estate market.

I believe there used to be something that could be called real estate tourism. Lots of visitors driving around looking for that special place to buy. That was long ago....in another time....before the melt-down.....seven or eight wars ago......seems like.

Woooosh - 6-16-2011 at 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

I would guess most of these people have a financial connection to economic growth here. People won't buy real estate in a place tourists won't visit. A lot of people bought more than one condo/house down here during the short-lived boom period as an investment. They are screwed on the second unit. The return of Tourism is a "warm fuzzy" that let's people know they are retiring in a safe, desirable location. So that's why they start there. If it's not perceived as safe for tourists, who will come down for real estate road shows to buy a place? Nada. That's the only way Baja real estate can attempt to command the top dollar they used to get- start with the return of Tourism. Ex-pats used to boast how they would avoid Rosarito Beach at all cost during spring break because it was so crazy and busy. Not any more.

Woooosh - 6-16-2011 at 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Woooosh.....what this committee of self-serving people don't know, they don't want to know. Believe me....I know.

They are so socially and financially vested in Baja's success that they can't think or see logically? They're just too close to the forest to see the trees- or maybe they are financially tapped-out and this is their best course of action to get the money they need to retire that their original investment plan in Baja didn't set them up for. Hard to figure why people would encourage others to pay too much for fried lobster, street parking and condos- unless they have something to gain from it themselves.

Woooosh - 6-16-2011 at 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
I would also think that tourism would be a hindrance to the real estate market.

Geesh- three in a row for me. We came down to Rosarito every Wednesday for several years scouting our house location. We actually ate out at more nice restaurants than we do now. So maybe you're right on that...

[Edited on 6-16-2011 by Woooosh]

JoeJustJoe - 6-16-2011 at 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by teadust

Quote:

I concur, and am wondering where that chart originated? Was it published by U.S. organization, or one in Mexico? I'd like to learn more about the data used to produce that. Cheers.

You concur but you have no idea where Jenny got the data or chart from?

It's just a chart that anybody could have made up and probably did!

I tried to trace some of the words from the chart using these words:

percentage of the mexican population living at or above a homicide rate,by year

Here is one think I was linked too. It's a right-wing hate blog that quotes racist people like Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, Tom Tancredo, and Michelle Malkin! Jenny is in good company here with those three xenophobe bozos and I won't ever say what I think of Malkin who still thinks it was a great idea to have internment camps for Japanese-Americans during World War II!

I'm not sure if Jenny actually got her chart from this blog, but Google lead me here, and keep in mind Jenny regularly does quote from known hate sites that have been deemed hate sites according the the Southern Poverty center. So be sure to check Jenny's facts whenever she puts anything up that you may have doubts about.

It's pretty clear to anybody that studies the facts knows the Mexican drug cartel violence is concentrated in relative few Mexican states, and the mass majority of those people killed are they themselves involved in illegal activities. I doubt too many gringos not involved in the drug trade have been found hanging from any bridges in Mexico. In fact I'm sure no gringo has been found hanging from a bridge.

Even if some of Jenny's statistics are correct like how she likes to quotes those homicide rates of 5 per 100,000 vs 25 per 100,000. This is virtually meaningless because in both cities there are some extremely safe areas, and some extremely dangerous areas. And who really cares if 20 more drug dealers and/or junkies died in one city compared to another city?

I for one will not let the tag team of Jenny and Woooosh scare me from visiting or living in Mexico.

From the American Conservative the hate blog that Jenny's quote lead me to:
_______________________________________

According to Lou Dobbs, “a third of the prison population in this country is estimated to be illegal aliens,” and Glenn Beck regularly warns of “an illegal alien crime wave.” Congressman Tom Tancredo insists, “The face of illegal immigration on our borders is one of murder, one of drug smuggling, one of vandalism for all the communities along the border, and one of infiltration of people coming into this country for purposes to do us great harm.” Michelle Malkin adds an even more terrifying note, calling our borders “open channels not only for illegal aliens and drug smugglers, but terrorists, too.” Even as far back as 2000, the highly regarded General Social Survey found that 73 percent of Americans believed that immigration caused higher crime rates, a level of concern considerably greater than fears about job losses or social unity.

[Edited on 6-16-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

jenny.navarrette - 6-16-2011 at 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by teadust
I concur, and am wondering where that chart originated? Was it published by U.S. organization, or one in Mexico? I'd like to learn more about the data used to produce that. Cheers.

The chart was created by a Mexican-American named Diego Valle-Jones. He has a blog on Mexican statistics. Here is a link to his blog article:

http://blog.diegovalle.net/2011/01/when-percentages-mislead....

Look like ol' JoeJustJoe just stepped on his pinger again.

JoeJustJoe - 6-16-2011 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jenny.navarrette

Quote:

So in other words Jenny who got your chart from some stupid blog that anybody could make up with their own personal agenda whatever that could be? There is no boss/editor on personal blogs to check the facts or the sources.

Why do you say Diego Valle-Jones is Mexican-American as if that brings him any credibility? I'm Mexican-American too but I don't see you quoting me Jenny unless it's something negative and you claim I have written it?

I looked at Diego's picture and Diego Valle-Jones looks white and effeminate looking. What did he do marry a gringo and take their last name? Maybe he got married in Mexico where they accept same sex-marriage, because I can't think of any other name how he got the Jones last name? In Mexico most Mexicans go by two surnames but they don't use a hyphen like that. Only married chicks do that. Oh well, nothing wrong with being gay, but I'd want to know a little bit more about Diego Valle-Jones agenda before I would accept anything he writes as fact.

But thanks for link Jenny, maybe some day you should start your own hate blog on Mexico.

Again Nomad members when Jenny posts something and doesn't link the source. Be sure to ask. I don't know how many times I have busted Jenny, and others like her when I later find out their are quoting a known dubious hate source like a right-wing hate think tank, or many hate blogs.

teadust - 6-16-2011 at 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
You concur but you have no idea where Jenny got the data or chart from?

Joe, I was concurring with the sentence "It is so easy to lie when nobody checks your numbers." That's why I asked where that chart and data derived from. No need to foam; I appreciate your efforts at research.

And that Diego Valle blog is interesting.

Bajahowodd - 6-16-2011 at 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
And what do you expect propaganda to sound like? The world economy is in the pooper and Mexico thinks they are being unfairly picked on. The Baja real estate market isn't coming back in our lifetime. Tourism is a function of how people feel about their financial situations. Unless you are a vacation destination of the rich and famous- you will be left out.

[Edited on 6-16-2011 by Woooosh]

Short-sighted Nimby-ism, methinks. Fact is that ex-pats benefit from a vigorous local economy, that really must include tourism.

Woooosh - 6-16-2011 at 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I for one will not let the tag team of Jenny and Woooosh scare me from visiting or living in Mexico.
[Edited on 6-16-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

I don't accept that premise, but I'd take that team over whomever it is you have.

You kinda lost me when you attacked the chart-yielding blogger's position based solely on his "white and effeminate" looks. You were on a roll for a while though... :saint:

Did you catch the other chart on the guy's site that showed the increase in Mexico's murder rate since the assault weapons ban expired? Another chart shows the percentage of guns being used in Mexico homicides. The charts cover 1998-mid2010.

http://blog.diegovalle.net/2010/09/how-expiration-of-assault...

[Edited on 6-16-2011 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 6-16-2011 at 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
They are so socially and financially vested in Baja's success that they can't think or see logically?

Self preservation is logical.
Hoooraaay for me and screw you. That's their premise.

Woooosh - 6-16-2011 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
They are so socially and financially vested in Baja's success that they can't think or see logically?

Self preservation is logical.
Hoooraaay for me and screw you. That's their premise.

and they have this Mexican gov't office backing them to boot...

DENNIS - 6-16-2011 at 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
and they have this Mexican gov't office backing them to boot...

They have nothing backing them other than some functionary from the Department of Tourism.
What these marooons don't realize is that Committees in Mexico are like demonstrations. They allow the aggreived to blow off steam and nothing ever happens.
This "committee" has been having puff meetings for a little while now and they don't even have a plan for their reason to exist.
Their adversary is the US press and what they want to do is silence them. They want to censor the US press for the sake of tourism.
They can't stop the crime, but they think they can stop the world from hearing about it.

You know all of this, Woooosh, only too well.

Gawddddam....a committee of freakin notzeess.

krafty - 6-16-2011 at 04:57 PM

Wonder if the new downtown parking meters were mentioned in their bid to promote tourism? a buck an hour. They must think this is Newport Beach instead of Rosarito. Think the timing on this one is a bit off.....

DENNIS - 6-16-2011 at 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by krafty
Wonder if the new downtown parking meters were mentioned in their bid to promote tourism? a buck an hour. They must think this is Newport Beach instead of Rosarito. Think the timing on this one is a bit off.....

True story, krafty. It's way more than minimum wage for a lot of humans.

"Oh, to be born a parking meter. My problems would be solved."
:saint:

marv sherrill - 6-16-2011 at 05:13 PM

Ah' yes lets quote Mark Twain - there are 3 types of lies - lies, damn lies and statistics!

Here are a few of mine (real stats...) that might lend a helping hand here -

Mexico has about 6000 violent crimes per year - the US has about 35,000, and Mexico's population is about 1/3 that of the US - US has over 10 X the death rate as does Mexico - Hmmmm
Ciudad Juarez accounts for 50 % of those deaths, leaving a mere 3000 for the rest of Mexico and Baja -(LA alone has about 680 violent deaths per year to put things into perspective)

Another note- 6000 vets in the US commit suicide per year.....

Why do I feel so much safer in Baja than here????

[Edited on 6-17-2011 by marv sherrill]

JoeJustJoe - 6-16-2011 at 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I for one will not let the tag team of Jenny and Woooosh scare me from visiting or living in Mexico.
[Edited on 6-16-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

I don't accept that premise, but I'd take that team over whomever it is you have.

You kinda lost me when you attacked the chart-yielding blogger's position based solely on his "white and effeminate" looks. You were on a roll for a while though... :saint:

I don't that I was attacking the white and effeminate looking blogger Diego Valle-Jones except that I was asking Jenny why should I be impressed just because he is Mexican-Americans, and I wanted to show another side. I expressed no opinion on Valle-Jones blog, except to say anybody could have a blog and put whatever they want on a blog. There is also the fact that often blogs are agenda driven, and I was wondering what Valle-Jone's agenda was.

Thanks to the link I think I found part of it. Diego Valle-Jones is obviously a right-wing effeminate gay gun nut! He certainly doesn't fit the profile, but then again gun nuts often over compensate for their lack of manhood by buying big guns like that's going to make up the difference.

Diego Valle-Jones, although it's a well written piece opinion article reeks of NRA talking points of not accepting blame of arming the Mexican drug cartels with assault weapons used in killing Mexican cops and other citizens.

It would be a waste of time to refute every word Valle-Jones but check out "Fact-Check" on this issue and it will be fairly obvious who is supplying these weapons to the cartels. ( here is a hint...it's the US)

What I haven't found are 'many' other articles of large shipments of assault type weapons coming in from places like North Korea, Russia, or even South America and arming the Mexican drug cartels. Almost all the articles show arms and weapons coming in from the United States, and operation "Fast & Furious" is yet another example on how the US guns shops along the border are supplying weapons to the Mexican drug cartels.

What happened to the "assault weapon" ban in the 90's is the firearm manufactures found a way around the ban, and many weapons not on the list were still sold. What another assault weapon ban needs to do is ban all types of assault weapons and the large clips that go with those weapons period.

Just pass the another law and ban "all" assault weapons and similar type weapons. We don't need those types of weapons in this country or Mexico because the only purpose for those weapons are for killing people in large numbers, and are favored by the drug cartels. At least make it harder for the gun manufactures to get around the bans. They could also put more teeth in the law and close the gun loopholes.

The fact is the NRA and the right-wing Republicans will never pass any kind of sensible gun-control legislation and instead sing the mantra, " Guns don't kill people, people do."

From Diego Valle-Jones blog:
______________________________

In response to the ban, firearm manufacturers quickly retooled their guns so that they didn't meet the law's definition of assault weapon, and most of the banned features don't strike as particularly important. For example, I bet most guns smuggled to Mexico are disassembled and so a stock of any kind would be removed. And I've never heard of a cartel shootout that involved bayonet mounts.

krafty - 6-16-2011 at 05:18 PM

I give them a month, Dennis, before they are all broken or screwed up with the wrong size coinage.

DENNIS - 6-16-2011 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marv sherrill
Mexico has about 6000 violent crimes per year -

Oh...c'mon, Marv. You have to be talking about the little town I live in. Where do you get these numbers?

DENNIS - 6-16-2011 at 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by krafty
I give them a month, Dennis, before they are all broken or screwed up with the wrong size coinage.

Cool-Hand Luke with a pipe cutter.

marv sherrill - 6-16-2011 at 06:13 PM

Dennis - check "The Catalist" - then just google around to substantiate the stats - I don't make this up - (Do you live in Cuidad Juarez?????)

DENNIS - 6-16-2011 at 06:20 PM

6000 violent crimes in a screwed up country of 110,000,000?? No freakin' way. I'll let someone else look it up.

jenny.navarrette - 6-16-2011 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marv sherrill
Mexico has about 6000 violent crimes per year - the US has about 35,000, and Mexico's population is about 1/3 that of the US

That's great news, Marv. I can't understand how those Mexicans got their statistics all screwed up. The ICESI ( a Mexican think tank) shows 218,329 violent crimes in Mexico in 2010:

HOMICIDIOS DEL ORDEN COMÚN (murders) = 34,763
LESIONES DOLOSAS (Intentional Injuries) = 169,208
VIOLACIÓN (rape) = 14,358

Here's the link to their data:
http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas...

http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas...

http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas...

I'm going to call them and tell them what a lousy job they did in compiling their statistics from the official government reports.

Do you think I should hold off on that while you recheck your data? Maybe we should have JoeJustJoe investigate this? After all, everybody at ICESI just might be white and gay... a sure sign their numbers are all wrong.

elgatoloco - 6-16-2011 at 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by krafty
I give them a month, Dennis, before they are all broken or screwed up with the wrong size coinage.

The 'meters' are the kind where you put in the money and get a receipt and take it back to your car. I know because last weekend I parked right in front of one and only noticed it when I returned to my vehicle after about an hour or so of walking and shopping and eating. No ticket. Lucky me. :saint:

JoeJustJoe - 6-16-2011 at 08:56 PM

Here is another reason why you should not trust the figures of Diego Valle-Jones the right-wing effeminate gun nut blogger who goes crazy with charts on Mexican violence and who Jenny often quotes from.

Diego Valle-Jones wrote this below that Woooosh quoted:
---------------------------------------

90% of the guns in Mexico come from the US: Of those traced, about 90% came from the US. The keyword being traced. This isn't all guns that were confiscated in Mexico, not even a random sample, but a highly biased one. For example, according to GAO, 25% percent of traced guns were assault weapons, while according to the Mexican government 50% of seized guns were assault weapons. So it would be mistaken to draw inferences about where the total percentage of guns come from. However, given that thousands of guns have been traced to the US, it would be correct to say that the United States is one of the main suppliers of guns to Mexico.
--------------------------------

JoeJustJoe refutes Diego here:

However in a number of places all over the internet there is a new story about the percentage of guns that the US supply. This time the percentage of all guns seized in Mexico that come to the USA is about 70 percent. It's not as high as the ninety percent figures in the past but these numbers are more accurate to refute because of the 29,284 firearms recovered by authorities. 15,131 of them were traced to the US, and another 5,373 were foreign guns that were shipped to the US and later delivered to Mexico, and another 8,780 were of unknown origin, but I would bet many of those weapons also had a US connection, but I can't say for sure.

I can't wait for Diego Valle-Jones and his ilk girls like Jenny and guys like Woooosh to refute these latest findings about the USA supplying arms to the Mexican drug cartels at least 70 percent strong:

Read about it here:
____________________________________

70% of Guns Seized in Mexico Come From US

(Newser) – A whopping 70% of guns seized in Mexico in 2009 and 2010 came from the United States, according to figures from the ATF. Of the 29,284 firearms recovered by authorities during that time, 15,131 were made in the US and another 5,373 were foreign guns that moved through the US to Mexico. The ATF, which submitted the guns to a US gun-tracing program, doesn’t know where the other 8,780 arms came from.

read the rest here:

http://www.newser.com/story/120986/70-of-guns-seized-in-mexi...

jenny.navarrette - 6-16-2011 at 09:14 PM

Joe's still wanking away with partial data.

Quote:

The report states that of 29,284 arms handed over for tracing by Mexican authorities in 2009-10, some 70 percent came from the US.

The ATF's statistic has been controversial since it was first cited two years ago. (At that time the number was even higher, at around 90 percent. It may have dropped now because more guns are getting traced today).

Nonetheless, it only accounts for guns seized in Mexico, and of those, the ones that the Mexican government submits for tracing.

“It is completely misleading. There is a huge population of guns that Mexicans confiscated that they don’t submit to trace to the ATF,” says Robert Farago, the managing editor of the website The Truth about Guns.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2011/0615/US-guns-fu...

Mexico submits the guns with American manufacturer's names for checking and does not submit all the AK-47's with no marking or Chinese markings.

JoeJustJoe - 6-16-2011 at 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Joe's still wanking away with partial data.

Quote:

Which guns are those Jenny the AK-47's shipped in from China to the USA and then are slipped over the border to the Mexican drug cartels?

That Christian Science Monitor article is very weak. The article seemed to only say the numbers are cherry picked, and very misleading, but it doesn't really go into detail why except to say there are many guns not submitted for testing. Well there are many reasons why many weapons weren't submitted for testing. For example the Mexicans didn't feel like sending them or didn't have the manpower to do so. When the AFT gets over 70 percent traced back to the US. It's very possible to extrapolate the non tested numbers and figure about 70 percent of those weapons come from the US too.

Let me take a page out of Jenny's play book and think logically. If I'm a Mexican drug cartel. Why wouldn't I buy the majority of the weapons from the US the country next door that has lax gun laws and sells weapons to anybody?

Oh if you're depending on that quote below that said," fully automatic machine guns aren't sold in Bob's gun store. "Well it's pretty easy to convert those assault weapons to fully automatic machine guns. and the grenades. You can't buy grenades in Arizona, but you can pick them up in the black market in Mexico that come from places like El Salvador. I understand there are many grenades left over from the Central American wars that were financed during the Reagan and Bush Senior days in the 80's. So in many ways the US does provide the Grenades to the Mexican drug cartels indirectly.
_____________________

From the Christian Science Monitor: ( not true)

Grenades and fully automatic machine guns are not sold at Bob’s gun store in Arizona,” Farago says. “This is a distraction technique. There is not an iron river of guns from [US] gun stores.” [Editor's note: The original version of this story misnamed the source of this quote.]

jenny.navarrette - 6-16-2011 at 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
The article seemed to only say the numbers are cherry picked, and very misleading, but it doesn't really go into detail why except to say there are many guns not submitted for testing. Well there are many reasons why many weapons weren't submitted for testing. For example the Mexicans didn't feel like sending them or didn't have the manpower to do so.

Hey Bozo, dont you ever get tired of playing the clown? You just make up crap and throw it out here to see it it sticks to the wall. You know nothing about what you talking about. Mexico does not send the guns to the ATF. They are evidence. They email an Excel spreadsheet with the manufacturer, model and serial number. It is the same spreadsheets they use for their own internal data. There is no extra work, and even if there was, it is just some clerk with a 6th grade education making $7 per day.

[wank]...[wank]....[wank]

JoeJustJoe - 6-16-2011 at 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jenny.navarrette

Quote:

Hey Girl just face facts. The majority of weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels come from the USA period. I don't know why it's so hard for you and your ilk to accept?

eTrace was the method I was thinking of. They didn't have the Spanish version out a few years ago, and was another reason why many of these weapons weren't submitted.

Now go to bed you wimp. I know you go to asleep at exactly 12 AM only to get up at 6 AM to do it all again.

Oh that 6th grade education. Wasn't it you who said Mexico is run by people with a 6th grade education? You need to have a little more respect for Mexicans, otherwise people here will just think you're racist.

[Edited on 6-17-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

luv2fish - 6-17-2011 at 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Quote:

Originally posted by jenny.navarrette

Quote:

We allready do......

jenny.navarrette - 6-17-2011 at 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by luv2fish

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
You need to have a little more respect for Mexicans, otherwise people here will just think you're racist.

We allready do......

Mexicans are a race? I always thought they were a nationality. How come Americans are not called the American race? Or Canadians the Canadian race?

Since you are obviously so up-to-date on all this, can you tell me what tribe this Mexican is?

Is she Maya? Cucapah? Please enlighten all of us.

wessongroup - 6-17-2011 at 09:21 AM

Spot on ... jenny

Inductive Reasoning

MrBillM - 6-17-2011 at 09:32 AM

Wanting to "Prove" their "Premise" that a majority of weapons are coming from U.S. Gun Dealers, the Mexicans aren't likely leaving out ANY weapons which "might" be traced to that source. THAT argument is ABSURD.

Of course, so is Joe.

There's no question that the numbers are being rigged. It's impossible to even get an accurate count of the TOTAL number of weapons the Government is seizing as they juggle those numbers to make their point.

In any case, it's a BIG "So What ?"

Since it is clear from the seizures, including Heavy Machine Guns, RPGs and Grenades, Explosives, etc, that the Cartels DO have more direct sources, they could just as well purchase their small arms from those sources at higher cost.

The reason that they buy what they do from U.S. dealers is simply economic. It's cheaper and the supply-lines are more secure. Remove that and they'll still buy whatever they need. There is no shortage of Cash-Flow in their enterprise.

BTW, I'd like to see Any "PROOF" that AK-47s (or M-16s) are being supplied by Those Border Dealers. THAT would put them in jail immediately if the buyers were not Class III purchasers and I haven't seen any evidence of Class III purchases going astray.

Woooosh - 6-17-2011 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Wanting to "Prove" their "Premise" that a majority of weapons are coming from U.S. Gun Dealers, the Mexicans aren't likely leaving out ANY weapons which "might" be traced to that source. THAT argument is ABSURD.

Of course, so is Joe.

There's no question that the numbers are being rigged. It's impossible to even get an accurate count of the TOTAL number of weapons the Government is seizing as they juggle those numbers to make their point.

In any case, it's a BIG "So What ?"

Since it is clear from the seizures, including Heavy Machine Guns, RPGs and Grenades, Explosives, etc, that the Cartels DO have more direct sources, they could just as well purchase their small arms from those sources at higher cost.

The reason that they buy what they do from U.S. dealers is simply economic. It's cheaper and the supply-lines are more secure. Remove that and they'll still buy whatever they need. There is no shortage of Cash-Flow in their enterprise.

BTW, I'd like to see Any "PROOF" that AK-47s (or M-16s) are being supplied by Those Border Dealers. THAT would put them in jail immediately if the buyers were not Class III purchasers and I haven't seen any evidence of Class III purchases going astray.

I would go a step further and suspect that Drugs, not cash are used to obtain guns in trades. Barter before cash.

JoeJustJoe - 6-17-2011 at 11:35 AM

Quote:

I wouldn't be too concerned about RPGs and Grenades, and Explosives. Not too many Mexicans are being killed by those types of weapons. Those type of weapons are more of a terrorist threat, because the fear factor is off the chart with Grenades. However, even these types of weapons can be traced to the US:

Mexican drug cartels' newest weapon: Cold War-era grenades made in U.S.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07...

Well according to many sources AK-47's and M-16's are being brought in the US and are being shipped to Mexico. Many of these types of weapons are first shipped in the US from places like China, and then simply driven over the border.

Here is one such case with the arrested and conviction of John Phillip Hernandez who was convicted of being part of a ring that smuggled at least 339 high-powered weapons including AK-47's and M-16 to the Mexican drug cartels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/us/15guns.html?_r=1&pa...

Americans need to face the fact that's it's America that is supplying the Mexican drug cartels with arms.

Purgings from Joe's <rear>

MrBillM - 6-17-2011 at 01:46 PM

Although a Lefty (or other) Newspaper article is not an authoritative source, the N.Y. (Communist Peoples Daily) Times article references "Semi-Automatic AK-47s which is a misnomer. The AK-47 Assault Rifle is a Select-Fire weapon.

Among the media, the AK-47 has become (incorrectly) a Generic (and ominous) term to frighten the masses. The rifles being sold are just other (albeit cheap and reliable) examples that fire ONCE with each trigger pull. I'd be happy to demonstrate the difference to Joe in a Free "personal training" session.

There are numerous semi-automatic "AK-style" or "AK-47 type" rifles (as more accurate spokesmen note), but they are NOT AK-47s. Just as my Semi-Automatic SKS-Rifles with a Gas-Operating system virtually identical to the AK ARE a DIFFERENT weapon.

And, the article references "AR-15" rifles which are also a semi-automatic weapon, NOT a Select-Fire M-16.

Other than their "Evil" appearance, those semi-automatic rifles are functionally no different than a multitude of other rifles which have been around since WWII.

[Edited on 6-17-2011 by MrBillM]

[Edited on 6-17-2011 by BajaNomad]

marv sherrill - 6-17-2011 at 04:23 PM

OOPS - sorry all - My stats were for violent crime related DEATHS - not all crimes - they are accurate as far as I can ascertain -

DENNIS - 6-17-2011 at 04:26 PM

Thanks, Marv. Still sounds low with Cd. Juarez in the mix.

jenny.navarrette - 6-17-2011 at 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marv sherrill
OOPS - sorry all - My stats were for violent crime related DEATHS - not all crimes - they are accurate as far as I can ascertain -

The government of Mexico's official reports show 12,383 murders for the first four months of 2011. At this rate there will be 37,000 murders in Mexico this year. That would produce a homicide rate of 33 per 100,000. The US has a homicide rate of 5 per 100,000.

Link to Mexico Crime Statistics

While Baja has only 2.8% of Mexico's population, it has 7% of Mexico's crimes, so far this year.

woody with a view - 6-17-2011 at 06:09 PM

we don't need no stinking committee.

Y WE GO..... :light:

Bajahowodd - 6-18-2011 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jenny.navarrette

Quote:

Originally posted by luv2fish

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
You need to have a little more respect for Mexicans, otherwise people here will just think you're racist.

We allready do......

Is she Maya? Cucapah? Please enlighten all of us.

If memory serves me, in my youth, Mexicans were considered to be caucasians. Around 1970, the census bureau decided to get cute and create additional categories that served to shift Mexicans to non-white status.

Obviously the indigenous population of Mexico, just like that of the US were always non-white. But unlike the United States, there was a huge intermingling of the population of Mexico, creating what the census folks would call "other".

However, by and large, and seemingly since the formation of the nation, it was, and is the European population that has run things.

DENNIS - 6-18-2011 at 04:18 PM

In Mexico, I believe it depends on the individual whether they want to be associated with the Mestizo or the Castillan side of the culture.
I've known ladies who hated the sun since it darkened the skin and they didn't want that "field hand glow."

Bajahowodd - 6-18-2011 at 04:53 PM

In addition, huge numbers of Americans, who don't travel, or at least not to Mexico, have a total misimpression of the Mexican ethnicity. Fundamentally, the workers who risked life and limb to cross the border for work are indigenous or Mestizo. So, if they were to travel to locations involved with commerce, government and the arts, such as Mexico City, Guadalajara, or Monterrey for instance, would be majorly surprised at the light skinned, light eyed folks that proliferate in those places.

It has been, for so long, a class issue.

bajabound2005 - 6-18-2011 at 09:28 PM

if you don't like it here, leave.