BajaNomad - Loreto Launch Ramp Fees

Loreto Launch Ramp Fees

bill erhardt - 6-30-2011 at 10:30 AM

Notices are posted at the Loreto launch ramp this morning in Spanish about the plan to start collecting fees for launching/retrieving boats. I stopped by the office of Arturo Susarrey, local API presidente, and picked up a copy of the attached notice in English. Arturo advised that beginning tomorrow, July 1, 2011, there will be an API representative on site at the launch ramp between 4:00 a.m. and noon to collect the fees.
Fees collected at the time of launching will include subsequent retrieval.
There is no plan to block access to the ramp when an API representation is not present.

Scan-1.jpg - 46kB

flyfishinPam - 6-30-2011 at 10:45 AM

I think this is an excessive fee! I am in the consejo de pesca as a boardmember of one of the active cooperativas and I will speak out against this.

I do believe that a fee should be charged but this is excessive. I think there should be a monthly pass or annual pass. I will explain that a fee this high should include secure parking, boat wash down, bathrooms, garbage cans, a well maintained launchramp, specific boat and trailer parking, etc. I am the voice of reason in these meetings at times, but I must admit that I haven't been able to attend the last several of their meetings due to the forum in Cabo last week, and a lot of tourism work and also the fact that they have too many freaking meetings.

I'll do what I can you know where I stand on this!

flyfishinPam - 6-30-2011 at 10:51 AM

I just thought further on this. I will submit a formal written complaint as an individual, a member of the sport fishing topurism sector, and of the productive commercial sector here in Loreto.

This is a good opportunity for users who will be impacted by this fee to voice your opinion. I will gather these ideas and write a complaint against the amount of this fee and the lack of services associated with it. I am coming from the fact that this is a fishing town and private boaters shouldn't be penalized by being visitors or users. So, lets hear it folks !

PS: I am expecting a lot of folks off today's plane so I'll be busy all this weekend but I will compose this letter early next week, and if ya want, Ill run it by ya'll first

Hook - 6-30-2011 at 11:01 AM

That does seem like a lot. Our privately owned ramp over here goes for 8.00US including in and out. And its not like they have a public source of funds to backstop them. But they do have the rest of the marina to defray launch fees.

What does the ramp at Puerto Escondido run?

[Edited on 6-30-2011 by Hook]

flyfishinPam - 6-30-2011 at 11:19 AM

I talked on the phone to the API office and asked about the 65.00 fee for "Federal Service boat Maritime". They intended to charge us local pangueros 65.00 per day (we were the federal service maritime boats) to use or keep pangas parked inside the marina. Obviously that would have caused the second Mexican Revolution so yesterday they met and came to an agreement of us paying 70 pesos per month. Sounds good to me but actually too good. I think there can be a better balance reached here.

I don't know the charge at PE anymore I am sure someone from there will chime in.

Back in 1992 the marina was built with federal money on a program called "con solidaridad" and it was "given to the people of Loreto". This is why the charge is outrageous because it is ours. The plaque explaining this is between the access road and the ramp, a lady sells coffee next to it and at times of extreme need it will serve as shade.

mtgoat666 - 6-30-2011 at 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
They intended to charge us local pangueros 65.00 per day (we were the federal service maritime boats) to use or keep pangas parked inside the marina. Obviously that would have caused the second Mexican Revolution so yesterday they met and came to an agreement of us paying 70 pesos per month.

so the "rich" gringos will provide pay fees to keep ramp maintained, trash collected,... while locals use ramp for pennies.

that is fair, sort of, depending on your POV. given that the income disparity between gringos and locals is large.

it does cost money to keep places open/maintained, and user fees are better than taxes

LaTijereta - 6-30-2011 at 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

There are a lot of "private" mexican boats that launch everyday..but more on Sundays.. It will be interesting to see how rates are determined and collected :rolleyes:

They got these signs up just in time for the "Fishing for the Mision" tournament next month.. That will allow everyone to have a memroable experiance that comes down to Loreto..

BTW.. That plaque "given to the people of Loreto", that Pam mentioned was removed by API last year as I recall.. kinda out of sight out of mind...

flyfishinPam - 6-30-2011 at 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaTijereta

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

There are a lot of "private" mexican boats that launch everyday..but more on Sundays.. It will be interesting to see how rates are determined and collected :rolleyes:

no it wasn't. the sign in front was replaced but go to it and read the plaque that sits at an angle above it, its written right there

Hook - 6-30-2011 at 03:47 PM

What is API?

beachbum1A - 6-30-2011 at 04:49 PM

We're talking pesos right? $129.00 or roughly $11 bucks.

bajario - 6-30-2011 at 05:33 PM

Like La Tijerita mentioned, it will make launching during the tourney in two weeks a nightmare. But still quite a bit cheaper than PE. Hopefully if this sticks it'll get the kinks worked out by tournament time. Like being able to buy the passes the day before. I prefer to not have to get up any earlier than I have to.

flyfishinPam - 7-1-2011 at 12:18 PM

I saw them collecting the fee this morning and things went pretty smoothly. They had about 15 people collecting the fee and checking paperwork. They weren't charging pangas that were working but they did close the access road to the dock just like when the cruise ship is here.

mtgoat666 - 7-1-2011 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajario
it will make launching during the tourney in two weeks a nightmare.

"nightmare" seems a bit dramatic. why would the fee cause a "nightmare" during launching?

LaTijereta - 7-1-2011 at 01:39 PM

Pam..

Have they mentioned anything about a monthly pass for "private boaters" to help streamline the process the morning?
They did back down on the "federal service boats", and gave them a monthly deal...

What is their description of a "federal service maritime boat" ?

DaliDali - 7-1-2011 at 02:00 PM

I am a resident and I don't have a problem paying a reasonable fee to use the launch ramp.
However I do find 129 pesos to be a bit much for what is offered.

Pangueros and local residents should be able to purchase a monthly pass for a reduced charge.
However.....that fee should be the same for ALL residents.

Cypress - 7-1-2011 at 02:12 PM

You got to pay to play!

And the money collected will pay for the collectors time.

Paula - 7-1-2011 at 04:27 PM

We are fine with paying a fee if it provides a job for a few collectors, and if some of the money goes to maintaining/improving the ramp facilities for boaters.

I hope our money is not used to build more barricades to fishermen for the benefit of the cruise ships.

I think the fee is high, maybe 100 pesos would be sufficient, and a nice round number would eliminate the need for making change, as change is so often hard to come by here.

DaliDali - 7-1-2011 at 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
What is API?

Administracion Portuaria Integral

Alan - 7-2-2011 at 10:42 AM

I can't believe I am actually agreeing with MG666 but I too feel user fees are better than taxes. I also agree that a round number such as $100 pesos would be much easier to collect and speed the process and they should establish an annual rate to provide a decal for locals and those who depend on the ramp for their livelyhood.

$10/day would not deter me from launching in Loreto, especially if that money was re-invested in improvements to the facility. As Loreto continues to grow their limited tax revenues could be better spent on the infrastructure that affects all of their citizens, not just those involved with the fishing industry (even though the majority of the town still benefits from it). Sportfishing and tourism has been the life blood of Loreto for many years and there is no reason they shouldn't continue to capitalize on it. This is revenue that will be raised in Loreto and will stay in Loreto, unlike the fishing license fees that they receive nothing from.

CJ - 7-2-2011 at 12:25 PM

A couple of things need to be understood. The foreign community in Loreto is not opposed to paying a fee to launch, most just think it would be better to charge the same amount to EVERYONE who uses the facilities.
I went down to the ramp this morning and what I witnessed was if you are a local Mexican there was no charge. Private boat or not it didn't matter. A local car mechanic launched, he wasn't approached for a fee. Although a local American launched and was asked to pay. This is blatant DISCRIMINATION It isn't the first time I have seen this in my twenty years in Loreto; but it is disturbing........."love it or leave it" you say, fine but it is things like this that pull the Mexican/Foreign community further apart. Things come and go in Mexico, this will too. The local people in charge just have to come up with a solution where ANYONE who uses the ramp pays the same fee and not feel as though you have more so you should pay more. That is the way it is done in Puerto Escondido, and there is no problem there.

[Edited on 7-2-2011 by CJ]

Paula - 7-2-2011 at 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CJ
A couple of things need to be understood. The foreign community in Loreto is not opposed to paying a fee to launch, most just think it would be better to charge the same amount to EVERYONE who uses the facilities.
I went down to the ramp this morning and what I witnessed was if you are a local Mexican there was no charge. Private boat or not it didn't matter. A local car mechanic launched, he wasn't approached for a fee. Although a local American launched and was asked to pay. This is blatant DISCRIMINATION It isn't the first time I have seen this in my twenty years in Loreto; but it is disturbing........."love it or leave it" you say, fine but it is things like this that pull the Mexican/Foreign community further apart. Things come and go in Mexico, this will too. The local people in charge just have to come up with a solution where ANYONE who uses the ramp pays the same fee and not feel as though you have more so you should pay more. That is the way it is done in Puerto Escondido, and there is no problem there.

[Edited on 7-2-2011 by CJ]

CJ, no one can speak for the foreign "community" in Loreto because we are all individuals with diverse opinions. I disagree that all should pay the same fee, and I favor a reduced fee for fishing captains. I also feel that I have no right to say what "the local people in charge" must do. I may not always like what they do, sometimes they may even hurt my feelings a little. And I also really don't like it when any foreigner professes to speak for the community. Nine times out of ten~~ they do NOT speak for me! :dudette:

CJ - 7-2-2011 at 02:32 PM

Paula, sorry to rock your ponga. For starters I'm speaking as a Mexican not a foreigner; and what I should have said was the foreigners I have talked with say they feel as though the fees should be the same for everyone. These are opinions of twenty or so local foreigner [fisherman] who launch their boats on a regular basis.

LaTijereta - 7-2-2011 at 02:39 PM

Where to start..
The marina was a gift to the people of Loreto, from the President of Mexico back in the 80’s, and was taken over by API a couple of years ago. While they have made improvements for the cruise ships that bring tourists onshore, they have shown little interest in developing the launch ramp and marina facilities for “private boaters” or “sport fishing charters” that share this small facility. The ramp was reworked a few years ago, but in a “half-ass” manner… The facilites… bathrooms, “photo-op” board to promote Loreto, fish cleaning, and parking lot none exist.
I do not see Arturo (in charge of collecting these fees) wanting to reinvest back into the facilities.. The monies will go into his pocket, and pay for a person(s) to collect the fees if this program persists in my own opinion.

As for the fees paid..
The “federal service maritime” boats where provided a “monthly” fee or pass, after questions where raised. The fee of $70 pesos, or $6.00 dollars, seems low for amount of wear and tear they would bring to the ramp. These I assume, are the “sport fishing & island charters” that launch out of the marina on a daily bases in the summer months. They do have to go through “commercial” registration, and pay additional fees for their licenses.. It remains to be seen how and when their fees will ever be collected by Arturo and API for their use of the marina..

The “private” boaters, both Mexican and Foreign, are being asked to pay $129 pesos each time they want to launch. Why could there not be a monthly fee for persons living in the Loreto area that may want to launch their boat multiple times in a month? It only seems fair, based on the deal offered the “sport fishing” boats. I see this bringing only further separation in Loreto, if a Mexican national is allowed to launch his/or her “private” boat” for no charges, and a Foreigner (either visiting or living next door in Loreto) is asked to pay monies to Arturo. I want to believe we are all Loretanos , when it comes to the Marine Park that surrounds Loreto we are all looked upon as “equals” when it comes to proof of residency in the Loreto area. I wonder how one man or organization (API) is allowed to change the rules over night?

In the end.. This program will fade as the summer storms come to Loreto, and fewer boats are seen going out. By fall there will be fewer boats brought down to Loreto, and hopefully some of the wounds will heal between the Loretanos who were charged to use a public ramp, and those who were not…

BTW.. With Loreto trying to get back on the map for a fishing destination this summer..They always bring these new rules/ programs out just as people are getting ready to bring their boats down to Baja after years of bad PR... :rolleyes:

monoloco - 7-2-2011 at 03:33 PM

It'a slippery slope when they start creating "gringo taxes" like this. If I used that ramp, I'd be asking about the legality of charging just foreigners for using it, should be the same for everybody.

flyfishinPam - 7-2-2011 at 03:57 PM

I think that the legality of this charge to local Loretanos, given the fact that the marina and ramp was a gift from President Salinas de Gortari, should be looked into. I am curious about where the collected fees will go and transparency of the accountability.

CJ as a Mexican citizen you should get involved in the meetings and voice your opinion and not just here. I have been very busy to attend the meetings that dealt with the fee so I'd appreciate if you can go to the meetings so that your voice may be heard you have the right as a citizen to attend and participate.

I am against discrimination but the fee for a private boat should be the same and charged no matter whose boat it is. The fee for working pangas is tricky because the use of the ramp is our access to the water that we live from and that we carry permits to work on, our fuente economica necessary to feed our families with is in jeopardy with an excessive fee, we know this and so do they that´s why an agreement was made. Private boats are being use for recreation not to feed the family of the boat owner but for fun and enjoyment, there's a big difference there ethically and in the eyes of Mexican law.

There's always the free beach launch in Colonia Zarogoza, one of the very few public accesses left here.

Paula - 7-2-2011 at 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CJ
Paula, sorry to rock your ponga. For starters I'm speaking as a Mexican not a foreigner; and what I should have said was the foreigners I have talked with say they feel as though the fees should be the same for everyone. These are opinions of twenty or so local foreigner [fisherman] who launch their boats on a regular basis.

That is a better way to put it CJ. And I might have said that I don't like any person to assume they speak for a community...

I agree that there is much wrong with this fee program. It was poorly installed with no lead time, no discussion among the LORETO community, and really no clear rules or enforcement. But I don't think it needs to divide the foreign and local populations because really neither population was consulted here. We are all in this together. And I think Tijereta may be right, it will just slip away. That said, I do see a need for the fee to be lower for service providers. And I am concerned that one office, or one officer has the power to make this call.

Fees

Merino - 7-2-2011 at 04:36 PM

For that kinda money get me a dedictaed parking spot , washdown area ,A fillet table under a Palapa with misters
and 25 cent beers .In all seriousness , for that kind of money the amenities need to be improved . This isn't Puerto Los Cabos and I don't want it to be. We also hire and utilize a local captian when he's available .Write the letter and prompt discussion -lets insist on a monthly or annual alternative fee .Maybe for that kinda money they can provide security and I can leave my boat in the water.I don't mind paying -judt seem excessive ..... :fire:

Pescador - 7-3-2011 at 07:35 AM

API-BCS controls all the ports and ramps in Baja California Sur, so if this one works then the whole thing will expand to the other ports even though they have been doing fine for years. The commercial landing have paid and that is one of their funding sources besides the Government. Hopefully we will not be seeing that up in Santa Rosalia or San Bruno anytime in the near future.
I fish most days of the week but it is to help my friend who makes a living off of the fish that he catches. So now we have a real conundrum, do we pay the Gringo recreation fee or the lower panga fee. One more of the challenges for a cross-cultural relation. How about Pam, does she pay the gringo fee even though she is a citizen or does her husband have to get the permit.
I would think they could have gotten pretty much the same results with asking for some support from some of the local boat owners, business operators, and the like, but no, they hit up the people who look wealthier and have more expensive looking boats.

flyfishinPam - 7-3-2011 at 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
API-BCS controls all the ports and ramps in Baja California Sur, so if this one works then the whole thing will expand to the other ports even though they have been doing fine for years. The commercial landing have paid and that is one of their funding sources besides the Government. Hopefully we will not be seeing that up in Santa Rosalia or San Bruno anytime in the near future.
I fish most days of the week but it is to help my friend who makes a living off of the fish that he catches. So now we have a real conundrum, do we pay the Gringo recreation fee or the lower panga fee. One more of the challenges for a cross-cultural relation. How about Pam, does she pay the gringo fee even though she is a citizen or does her husband have to get the permit.
I would think they could have gotten pretty much the same results with asking for some support from some of the local boat owners, business operators, and the like, but no, they hit up the people who look wealthier and have more expensive looking boats.

So far we haven't been hit up for money. I am exhausted right now, delayed start this morning wiht the weather and all. I am hoping to fish tomorrow and tuesday but may push that to tuesday and wednesday... I will find out about the next meeting I know there will be one and I predict this subject will come up. My one panga is registered under our cooperativa and my husband as a member and a captain. I am on the board of directors on the coop so I also sit on the consejo de pesca (commercial and sport fishing board). Although I will complain about the fee of 129 for the lack of services I will not hold my breath that it will be eliminated or changed, they've been proposing this to happen for years. However I will explain that a monthly or weekly pass should be an option, also that funds need to be accountable and stay local. Finally I will warn my compañeros that a "gringo tax" is only the start of much worse for us in the future, if we don't keep it in check we will all pay. Just to let you know, a lot of the captains do understand the need to keep the bureaucrats in check, and are not happy with how this has all gone down so far.

BTW I am told that at Puerto Escondido where they do have services the ramp fee is 177 pesos and all paperwork including insurance papers need to be presented to the singlar office to use the ramp.

Merino - 7-3-2011 at 11:21 AM

Pam , we've used the marina In Santa Rosalia and there is a small launch ramp nearby.It has all the amenities . Chilled pool , hottubs ,showers ,security ,parking Pemex,fresh water ,electrical hookups and I can keep my boat in the marina .....Its a great deal -you can even catch your bait inside the marina . I have a 20' CC and it's about $18-$20 a day. We still love Loreto as it is a very charming town .But compared to the services provided at Pto Escondido and Santa Rosalia -both run by Fonatur -The entities implementing this launch ramp fee are charging way too much for what there providing. Keep up the good work ,I know we will all be well represented . :fire:

Pescador - 7-4-2011 at 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Merino
Pam , we've used the marina In Santa Rosalia and there is a small launch ramp nearby.It has all the amenities . Chilled pool , hottubs ,showers ,security ,parking Pemex,fresh water ,electrical hookups and I can keep my boat in the marina .....Its a great deal -you can even catch your bait inside the marina . I have a 20' CC and it's about $18-$20 a day. We still love Loreto as it is a very charming town .But compared to the services provided at Pto Escondido and Santa Rosalia -both run by Fonatur -The entities implementing this launch ramp fee are charging way too much for what there providing. Keep up the good work ,I know we will all be well represented . :fire:

API-BCS has an office above the ferry terminal in Santa Rosalia and has the responsibility for the operation of the port. They have had the money to repair and fix the ramp in Santa Rosalia for some time but it has not happened since it was destroyed in Hurricane Jimena. They are also scheduled to dredge out the marina at San Bruno but we have not seen any sand or rocks moved as of yet. I think they saw a golden opportunity to add to the coffers in Loreto but still seems more of a "shoot from the hip" kind of action. I have paid that kind of money to launch at San Diego harbor but I get real restrooms, a launch ramp that works, a breakwater, and fresh water washdown.

EdZeranski - 7-5-2011 at 10:38 AM

Was it ever decided on why the fees in the first place? When I was there, Loreto, two weeks ago it was rumored because of local fishermen being unhappy with the lack of customers. They came up with the idea Americans were sneaking charters on their private boats via the internet...... rather than slack economy or fear of traveling. Anyway, just something I heard while in 'L' town.

EdZ KG6UTS :?:

Merino - 7-5-2011 at 04:49 PM

Ed , That's interesting , I heard the same thing from a long time panguero captian . In essence , he says that some American boats are offering to take gringos fishing -their own little charter service ,therefore they are cutting into the local pangueros slice of the pie and interfering with their ability to make a living . He thought one of the reasons that Americans were doing this was because of the high price of fuel.When I am in Loreto I go fishing with my immediate family and friends that made the trip with me and we even hire a local panguero to go out fishing with us. If they want to improve the facilities with the money thats one thing , but to all of a sudden start charging a launch fee with no discussion or explaination is a little Autocratic and resembles a "make the rules as we go " mentality.

Paula - 7-5-2011 at 08:09 PM

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2133699.htm

EdZeranski - 7-6-2011 at 08:56 AM

We now fish with Roberto Romero,"No Rookies!", from the Colonia and for years with his half brother Chincho until his death. I guess the depth of the economic slow down after several years fueled by the real estate balloon is hard for some folks to grasp.

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2133699.htm Thanks Paula!!

Well, if it really is to provide better services as the above article stated it would be good if the organization passed that info to more folks to clear the speculation. But....make the rules as you go does have a tradition.

Now the real issue...Whats the Dorado situation??? ~8^)

EdZ KG6UTS

Merino - 7-6-2011 at 09:14 AM

Paula , thanks for the post and information .If API and Arturo don't get the word out it fuels speculation as to why all of a sudden there are launch ramp fees . Personally 129 pesos isn't going to kill me , but I do appreciate "transparency" and information regarding the new fee.

Cypress - 7-6-2011 at 03:06 PM

Just another "Stick it to the Gringo" deal. :biggrin:

flyfishinPam - 7-13-2011 at 07:56 AM

while i'm signed on, i completed the english version of the letter and waiting for my google spanish translation to be cleaned up better than I can personalyly do it, i'll post it when its ready, hopefully it will not only address the community's concerns it will be part of a solution
happy fishing!

fish101 - 8-17-2011 at 02:41 PM

Well, its been nearly two months since API started charging the "Gringos" the 129 pesos Ramp Fee and no sign of any improvements being made. I have seen several people slip on the ramp recently, couldn't something be done here to assist those trying to launch or retrieve their boats. Pot holes at the approach to the ramp could also be filled in. Where is all the money going?? Anyone responsible for accountability? While we are stopped, trying to pay our fee and receiving the receipt, the panga owners are waved around allowing them to launch ahead of us..To be fair to all of us, they should wait in line as we have to. For all of us that live here the year around, wouldn't it be fair if we could get a monthly fee as well? The Mexican fishermen think we can afford to pay this fee, but when you pay the ramp fee, buy bait at 200 pesos, buy gas for the boat and catch one or two fish that day, its an expensive day on the water..Isn't discrimination illegal or doesn't anyone care anymore??