BajaNomad - The Mexican-American Boom: Births Overtake Immigration

The Mexican-American Boom: Births Overtake Immigration

vgabndo - 8-6-2011 at 05:00 PM

This link also makes available a huge amount of statistical information about being Mexican in America. The folks advocating a "Berlin Wall" between our countries would seem to have been flanked, so to speak.

http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=144

Bajahowodd - 8-6-2011 at 05:28 PM

Just seems to me that given the history of Mexico and the US, the combination of Mexican Pride and US Xenophobia combine to create a perfect storm that divides us.

Maybe I'm alone in this feeling. But, I really feel like the US and Mexico are more alike than different. I always looked forward to the day when Mexico and the Us were the same nation.

Maybe some of that feeling is simply because I spent the majority of my adult life living in the Southwest US, where Mexican culture abounded.

Unfortunately, current economic and political conditions appear to combine to drive the US and Mexico farther apart.

It pains me no end to see the walls and fortresses being erected on the US MX border, especially since there's nothing close to that on the US/ Canadian border. Is that because Canadians speak English? And they have a higher standard of living? And, they are, given current standards, white?

Lotsa folks are probably not aware of the fact that Canadians are second on the list of undocumented illegals in the US. Where's the outrage over that?

It makes me sick.

JESSE - 8-6-2011 at 08:18 PM

I always tell people:

What would you prefer? mexican immigrants, or muslim imigrants like in europe?

The fact is, the US needs immigrants, and in my humble opinion, they have ones that are christian, hard working, and dont complain much. They dont value those facts.

DENNIS - 8-6-2011 at 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The fact is, the US needs immigrants, and in my humble opinion, they have ones that are christian, hard working, and dont complain much. They dont value those facts.

Maybe it's the trash that follows the hard workers over the line that gives them a bad name.
I, for one, do not appreciate that. Never will.

JESSE - 8-6-2011 at 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The fact is, the US needs immigrants, and in my humble opinion, they have ones that are christian, hard working, and dont complain much. They dont value those facts.

Maybe it's the trash that follows the hard workers over the line that gives them a bad name.
I, for one, do not appreciate that. Never will.

What "trash" are you referring to?

drarroyo - 8-6-2011 at 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The fact is, the US needs immigrants, and in my humble opinion, they have ones that are christian, hard working, and dont complain much. They dont value those facts.

Maybe it's the trash that follows the hard workers over the line that gives them a bad name.
I, for one, do not appreciate that. Never will.

What "trash" are you referring to?

you know, like the trash that ends up going SOB!

DENNIS - 8-6-2011 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
What "trash" are you referring to?

Mexico's human garbage that crosses the border to slither into gangs and live on the edge of civilized humanity. Mara Salvatrucha trash and La Eme scum.
That's who I effing mean.
That you would ask is only another example of Mexico's selective blindness.

Diver - 8-6-2011 at 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The fact is, the US needs immigrants, and in my humble opinion, they have ones that are christian, hard working, and dont complain much. They dont value those facts.

We live in an agricultural area.
Checking the local paper;
60% of the birth anouncements are Mexican.
40% of the school kids are Mexican and half of them can't speak english.
Most of their parents speak no english; many are illegal.
Used to be 50% of the crime stats were Mexicans - lately it's 80%+.
Most get free health care and services from the WA gov.
The only 3 rapes in our area the past years were by Mexicans.
ALL of the meth dealers are Mexican.
Just saying ...... the situation is far from ideal.

DENNIS - 8-6-2011 at 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
They dont value those facts.

... the situation is far from ideal.

In spite of all that, "we" are still the problem in Jesse's eyes.

[I use "Jesse" as a generic name for Mexico]

tripledigitken - 8-6-2011 at 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
I always tell people:

What would you prefer? mexican immigrants, or muslim imigrants like in europe?

The fact is, the US needs immigrants, and in my humble opinion, they have ones that are christian, hard working, and dont complain much. They dont value those facts.

The issue is not so much where the immigrants come from, but rather the legality of their arrival. Will you think of me as a racist for that opinion?

Point of fact, my mother was a legal immigrant that came to this country, christian, hard working, and never complained. She never looked back to where she came from and loved this country.

BornFisher - 8-6-2011 at 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vgabndo
"This link also makes available a huge amount of statistical information about being Mexican in America. The folks advocating a "Berlin Wall" between our countries would seem to have been flanked, so to speak."

The "Berlin Wall" between our countries?? Oh didn`t you know? The Berlin Wall was to keep people IN East Berlin!! Our border is to keep people from the north, south, east and west from entering our country illegally! How can anyone compare the Berlin Wall to our borders?

[Edited on 8-7-2011 by BornFisher]

alofrisco - 8-6-2011 at 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The fact is, the US needs immigrants...

The number of unemployed persons in the US is 13.9 million and the unemployment rate is 9.1% in July. There are anonther 8.4 million who are employed only part time because their hours were cut back or are unable to find full time work. The internal growth in the US labor force -- not counting immigration -- is about 100,000 people per month. So the US has to create 100,000 new jobs each month just to hold the unemployment rate at 9.1% and keep those other 8.4 million people only partially employed.

So I would have to ask you straight up: Why does the US need immigrants? What will they do? How will the US benefit from an increase in the untrained labor supply?

Skipjack Joe - 8-7-2011 at 01:08 AM

Half Moon Bay is a town with a population of about 12,000 people. We're too small to have a hospital. Our only medical facility was a clinic which provided for the community.

We have a sizeable population of illegal immigrants who work the fields and nurseries on the coast. They were uninsured but the clinic felt morally obligated to provide them service and did, free of charge or at greatly reduced fees. 25% of the patients were treated free of charge with money that just wasn't there.

The clinic operated in the red for several years as several private donors tried to keep the it afloat. Finally in 2009 the clinic declared bankrupcy and abruptly closed it's doors to all former patients. We now have to travel to the large cities 'over the hill' for common cold visits or general checkups. I don't know how the illegals are coping.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-03-27/bay-area/17215110_1_nonprofit-clinic-medical-clinic-half-moon-bay

Our story is a microcosm of what's happening to the entire state of california. It's sinking and there is no way to right the ship. Mexican-Americans are now the largest block of voters in California and they have little interest in curbing illegal immigration. Because many are the descendants of illegal immigrants.

J.P. - 8-7-2011 at 09:48 AM

The goverment will do nothing to solve the Imigrant policy sooooooo it looks like the Mexican People are,having lived on the border primarly Texas and California most all of my life as far back as 30years you could see the Mexican influnce in the Vote. the local goverments began to change to predominate Mexican . Like Pappy said they are going to take it back without fireing a shot. :bounce:

Diver - 8-7-2011 at 10:54 AM

If all of the illegals and their children went home ..........

The US taxpayer burden on schools, clinics, hospitals, legal system, prisons and enforcement would all be decreased by a much more significant amount than the taxes lost by their leaving.

Farm and industrial labor-requiring industries will hire legal citizens and/or increase efficiency through machinery and other means as has led to our successes in the past.

Although the housing market would take an additional hit in the low-income sector, the increase in employment among the remaining citizens would help reduce this effect.

The strains on our clinics, hospitals, jails, schools, etc would be reduced to the point that budgets could be established at current or reduced funding levels with improved services for the remaining citizens.

But this of course, is all just fantasy as our gov will never seal our borders, send home the majority of illegals or stop existing illegals from procreating in the US and thereby obtaining citizenship.

Our future will be speaking spanish - it seems inevitable.

?? Hola Amigo ??

.

[Edited on 8-7-2011 by Diver]

SFandH - 8-7-2011 at 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
If all of the illegals and their children went home ..........

[Edited on 8-7-2011 by Diver]

Not arguing with what you said but keep in mind there are 312 million people in the US and an estimated 12 million illegals.

That's a bit less than 4% illegal, a bit more than 96% legal. Granted illegals use a disproportionate amount of social services because they are disproportionately poor, but it seems to me that the negative economic impact is frequently exaggerated.

I think things would be much the same in the vast majority of the US if all the illegals left.

drarroyo - 8-7-2011 at 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SFandH
I think things would be much the same in the vast majority of the US if all the illegals left.

How DARE you enter this board spouting reason.
This will be a great day to be a shareholder in Depends!! (and Pacifico re our favorite psycotic lush!) :lol:

JoeJustJoe - 8-7-2011 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Just seems to me that given the history of Mexico and the US, the combination of Mexican Pride and US Xenophobia combine to create a perfect storm that divides us.

Maybe I'm alone in this feeling. But, I really feel like the US and Mexico are more alike than different. I always looked forward to the day when Mexico and the Us were the same nation.

Maybe some of that feeling is simply because I spent the majority of my adult life living in the Southwest US, where Mexican culture abounded.

Unfortunately, current economic and political conditions appear to combine to drive the US and Mexico farther apart.

It pains me no end to see the walls and fortresses being erected on the US MX border, especially since there's nothing close to that on the US/ Canadian border. Is that because Canadians speak English? And they have a higher standard of living? And, they are, given current standards, white?

Lotsa folks are probably not aware of the fact that Canadians are second on the list of undocumented illegals in the US. Where's the outrage over that?

It makes me sick.

Wow really nice post Bajahowodd.

Yeah, it's all about "xenophobia" why Mexicans are treated like an ugly step-child compared to the English speaking white-skinned Canadian. Even Mexicans trucks are discriminated against compared to Canadian trucks and Canadian truck drivers that have been able to drive anywhere in the USA for years.

But it really doesn't matter what the xenophobes nativists think because Mexicans are going to soon be the majority in California and then later in other southwest states, another interesting statistic is children registered in school. Latino children lead by a wide margin, and those children all speak English, and if not US citizens will be.

Some comments on a few xenophobic posts in this thread. BTW whenever you get a threat like this. Xenophobia always rears it's ugly head. You would think because this is a Baja Forum, and we have many 'expats" here that there would be more respect for Mexico, Mexicans, and Mexican immigration, but sadly that's not always the case.
_________

Jesse what's wrong Muslims immigrating to the US? Jesse seems to say, "don't hate Mexicans, but it's OK to hate Muslims." That's just so wrong when the majority of Muslims are peace-loving people.
______________

Dennis points fingers at the so-called human garbage( Mexicans) that crosses the border, and wrongly points to the deadly street gang, " Mara Salvatrucha" is a Salvadoran gang, although they do reach out to other ethic heritages now.

What about all the human garbage from the US that always wants to hide out in Mexico after committing crimes in the US. They should ban movies like "Thelma and Louise" and other movies whose theme/goal is to escape to Mexico, because that's the real life criminals goal too. At least Mexico doesn't have the racist groups like the KKK, neo-N-zis skinheads, Minutemen, and the endless list of white nationalist Americans who dream of an all white country.
_____________________

Diver nice wet dream but Mexican immigrants, and undocumented Mexican immigrants aren't going home. Once the US economy picks up all kinds of immigration will pick up. Besides immigration, any kind of immigration has always been a net plus for America.

DENNIS - 8-7-2011 at 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Dennis points fingers at the so-called human garbage( Mexicans) that crosses the border, and wrongly points to the deadly street gang, " Mara Salvatrucha" is a Salvadoran gang, although they do reach out to other ethic heritages now.

The Salvadoran heritage of these scumballs is no more than a part of history. They recruit soldiers and the largest pool of available trash happens to be Mexican....and you know that.

wessongroup - 8-7-2011 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Half Moon Bay is a town with a population of about 12,000 people. We're too small to have a hospital. Our only medical facility was a clinic which provided for the community.

We have a sizeable population of illegal immigrants who work the fields and nurseries on the coast. They were uninsured but the clinic felt morally obligated to provide them service and did, free of charge or at greatly reduced fees. 25% of the patients were treated free of charge with money that just wasn't there.

The clinic operated in the red for several years as several private donors tried to keep the it afloat. Finally in 2009 the clinic declared bankrupcy and abruptly closed it's doors to all former patients. We now have to travel to the large cities 'over the hill' for common cold visits or general checkups. I don't know how the illegals are coping.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-03-27/bay-area/17215110_1_nonprofit-clinic-medical-clinic-half-moon-bay

Our story is a microcosm of what's happening to the entire state of california. It's sinking and there is no way to right the ship. Mexican-Americans are now the largest block of voters in California and they have little interest in curbing illegal immigration. Because many are the descendants of illegal immigrants.

Thanks... skipjack...I prefer "real time" reporting of what is really happening in communities that someone "lives" in..

As most, I have friends in different places in the United States and many other countries.. and find their thinking and experiences a far better "yard stick" to use on what's going on

Thanks agin for the insight in your location... it all helps...

wessongroup - 8-7-2011 at 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
What "trash" are you referring to?

Funny how that works.. :lol:

It pays to be birthin' them babies

Dave - 8-7-2011 at 12:49 PM

Down Mexico way, Mexican birthrates are rapidly decreasing while in the States it's the opposite.

Dare we wonder why? :rolleyes:

DENNIS - 8-7-2011 at 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Dare we wonder why? :rolleyes:

A rabbit is a rabbit....wherever they are.

Maybe this is why we need them

danaeb - 8-7-2011 at 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alofrisco

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The fact is, the US needs immigrants...

Anti-immigration laws prove to be counter-productive, harmful
McClatchy-Tribune News Service
Published: Thursday, Aug. 4, 2011 - 5:12 am

The following editorial appeared in the Miami Herald on Wednesday, Aug. 3:

If nothing else, the hard-line immigration laws passed by some states recently may once again demonstrate the wisdom of an adage: Be careful what you wish for.

From Arizona to California to Georgia, a host of moderates and conservatives are lamenting the harmful, counter-productive effects of these laws.

Mayor Paul Bridges of the small farming community of Uvalda, Ga., could have been speaking for counterparts all over the country last week when he pleaded with a Senate panel for passage of an immigration reform bill. The draconian law passed in Georgia in lieu of action by Congress, he said, "will only devastate our local economies."

Georgia's farm workers are in the crosshairs of a new law that gives local police expanded powers to enforce immigration laws, and also targets anyone who gives undocumented immigrants a helping hand. These workers are critical to the state's $6.5 billion agricultural economy, but many have chosen to look for work elsewhere. Though the law remains suspended due to a lawsuit, the Georgia Agribusiness Council reports that farms have already lost $300 million due to a lack of workers and healthy crops have been left to rot in the field.

"This law isn't immigration reform," the mayor complained. "This law is government intrusion of the worst kind. It threatens our economy. It threatens our way of life. And it simply makes no sense." And that's the sworn testimony of a self-described "conservative Republican mayor" from Georgia.

The persistent myth that Americans are eager to replace immigrant workers, legal or not, is proving to be just that - a myth. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports farmers are finding that "replacing immigrant workers with native-born workers isn't easy; many new workers leave after only a day or two."

The picture is much the same in urban jobs. A survey by the Georgia Restaurant Association reveals widespread worker shortages in the state's $14.1 billion restaurant industry since the new law was passed.

All the new state laws are under legal challenge and may yet be overturned, but that won't solve the problem. Until Congress comes up with a federal solution, more business losses and the lost revenue from taxes on immigrant wages will persist, hurting states and local communities. Reform should be a priority when Congress returns in September.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/08/04/3816355/anti-immigration-la...

Xenophobia and Canadians vs Mexicans

Skipjack Joe - 8-7-2011 at 01:09 PM

In Peru many were furious at being denied entry into the US repeatedly while their acquaintenances from England typically waited 6 months. Racism, as usual, became the rallying cry. The felt they were being descriminated.

But really the INS has been set up to simply protect the country and assure it's welfare.

It's like this:
There is a room full of coins. Everyone can take some for his needs but has to replenish it at a later date. If someone takes a large amount but returns a small amount then everyone has to chip in and make up the difference.

The INS is simply there to make sure that you can put in as much as you take out. Canadians posses the skills to do this. Most illegal Mexicans do not.

There are many non white minorities that have doors open to them. I'm thinking about the skilled high tech people from India that now dominate the work force in the silicon valley.

vgabndo - 8-7-2011 at 01:51 PM

Skipjack...when I went to high school in HMB the school was just full of kids whose parents were immigrants. You couldn't look left or right without running into an Italian or a Portuguese. The traditional "American" street fairs in those days were called a Chamorita or something like that. It is an old American tradition and I should know all about it...right?

I disagree with a couple of post above. There is nothing positive about a "Christian" immigrant. As it is, only about 16% of Americans can be described as NOT delusional based on deeply held beliefs in myths for which more than adequate duplicate-able evidence exists to destroy said myths.

This country is in collapse in part because it just isn't reasonable to expect a population to make the rational decisions required to help assure a decent future when WAY too many of the citizens are anxiously waiting for the end of the world at the hands of their "savior".

It is the fault of the very best and brightest of Americans that we have an illegal labor problem. This great country was founded on principles designed to protect the lives and PROPERTY of the rich deists who designed it. Big business and industry in those days didn't have to worry about keeping a cheap labor force happy, or filling crappy jobs that few people like to do. They OWNED their labor, and could even breed it and get more labor. They taught their labor to be Christians like themselves, and black African Americans today predominantly worship the god of the people who enslaved them!

Then along came the best and brightest of America under the non-Christian president Abraham Lincoln and made (acknowledging the contributions of "good" Christians) the despicable slave traders stop. There was HUGE cost to swing America away from a long held Christian tradition, but it brought the USA into the company of enlightened nations and created a market for cheap labor and immigrant labor to fill the void left by America's slaves.

That's the way I read my history, and I do read my history!

[Edited on 8-7-2011 by vgabndo]

jakecard - 8-7-2011 at 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
If all of the illegals and their children went home ..........

The US taxpayer burden on schools, clinics, hospitals, legal system, prisons and enforcement would all be decreased by a much more significant amount than the taxes lost by their leaving.

Farm and industrial labor-requiring industries will hire legal citizens and/or increase efficiency through machinery and other means as has led to our successes in the past.

Although the housing market would take an additional hit in the low-income sector, the increase in employment among the remaining citizens would help reduce this effect.

The strains on our clinics, hospitals, jails, schools, etc would be reduced to the point that budgets could be established at current or reduced funding levels with improved services for the remaining citizens.

But this of course, is all just fantasy as our gov will never seal our borders, send home the majority of illegals or stop existing illegals from procreating in the US and thereby obtaining citizenship.

Our future will be speaking spanish - it seems inevitable.

?? Hola Amigo ??

.

[Edited on 8-7-2011 by Diver]

Hello Diver!

Have you seen this? http://www.seiu.org/a/immigration/they-take-our-jobs-debunki...

Are they full of crap?

Can you cite a source to any of your claims?

Best,

Jake

DENNIS - 8-7-2011 at 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jakecard
Have you seen this? http://www.seiu.org/a/immigration/they-take-our-jobs-debunki...

Are they full of crap?

Maybe just a little...........

http://www.businessinsider.com/seiu-union-plan-to-destroy-jp...

Dave - 8-7-2011 at 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
In general, educated, successful Mexicans are more likely to be paying attention to their reproductive rate. And less likely to be migrating north.

I'll give you some of that. However, educated and successful Mexicans aren't alone responsible for the plummeting Mexican birth rate. Mexico's poor also realize there is ZERO benefit in having more children. I don't think you can say the same for their counterparts north of the border.

TMW - 8-8-2011 at 09:32 AM

Under Myth#3 SEIU should get there facts straight. Here is the leadoff headline on the Texas report. I think the last sentence says it all.

Undocumented Immigrants in Texas:
A Financial Analysis of the Impact to the State Budget and Economy
December 2006
This is the first time any state has done a comprehensive financial analysis of the impact of undocumented immigrants on a state's budget and economy, looking at gross state product, revenues generated, taxes paid and the cost of state services.

The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received. However, local governments bore the burden of $1.44 billion in uncompensated health care costs and local law enforcement costs not paid for by the state.

wessongroup - 8-8-2011 at 09:47 AM

"Could well be true. I'm out of touch with the U.S. tax and social services structures relative to children, but it has always astounded me that folks get social benefits for reproducing-- in a world where overpopulation is the primary problem, seems like it should be the other way around... "

Spot on ... Lencho

JoeJustJoe - 8-8-2011 at 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
In general, educated, successful Mexicans are more likely to be paying attention to their reproductive rate. And less likely to be migrating north.

It looks like Dave exposed the "Reconquista" conspiracy that tells every able-bodied Mexican north of the border regardless of citizenship or papers........ to go into the bedroom with your Mexican spouse and produce more Mexican babies in order to realize the Aztlan dream of slowly re-taking the Southwest US and doing so without firing a single shot.

Quick somebody get Dave a tin foil hat.

DENNIS - 8-8-2011 at 11:26 AM

If I told you what I want to do to Janet Murgia, I'd be banned for life. Maybe longer.

I shouldn't think that would be a problem

Dave - 8-8-2011 at 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
If I told you what I want to do to Janet Murgia, I'd be banned for life. Maybe longer.

Doesn't she work at Anthony's?

DENNIS - 8-8-2011 at 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
If I told you what I want to do to Janet Murgia, I'd be banned for life. Maybe longer.

Doesn't she work at Anthony's?

That's her mother. I'll say hello for you.

Dave - 8-8-2011 at 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
That's her mother. I'll say hello for you.

So, that makes Janet your sister?

Then I guess we're related.

MitchMan - 8-23-2011 at 01:24 PM

I wonder what the stats are in California and for the entirety of the USA for measuring the net financial cost or the net financial benefit of the illegals in this country, to this country. Aside from any purely cultural issues (and there are substantial such issues), the aforementioned question is, to me, a huge pivotal question when evaluating the immigration issue and its solutions. TW above provided some stats to that effect.

Going back and forth with inflamatory statements without objective support is a bit reckless.

Whatever the accurate comprehensive pertinent stats support (either net deteriment or net benefit), I think that you have to incorporate the economic benefit to this country of paying illegals less than what would be paid for the same labor to legal residents in the absence of any illegals present in this country. In other words, do the illegal Mexican immigrants, on balance, contribute more to our USA economy than they cost (or consume) in this country? That's an objective question that needs to be answered with objective facts, not opinions.

I think that once that question is accurately answered, some of us may have to rethink the issue.

wessongroup - 8-23-2011 at 02:12 PM

Good one Mitch ... as it is all about money.. in the end... so what's the number???

Cypress - 8-23-2011 at 02:38 PM

How 'bout a $538.3 billion tab to the US taxpayer annually. Info was found on national policy institute website among others.

sanquintinsince73 - 8-23-2011 at 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
What "trash" are you referring to?

Part of the trash that I think my friend Dennis forgot to mention is scum like the fella in this story.

Suspected Illegal Immigrant Faces Charges in Alleged Hit-And-Run Death of California Boy

Published August 23, 2011

| FoxNews.com

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Charges have been filed against an unlicensed driver and suspected illegal immigrant who allegedly killed a 4-year-old boy in a hit-and-run accident, the San Francisco Chronicle reports.

The newspaper reports that prosecutors in Sonoma County charged 22-year-old Marcos Lopez Garcia with felony hit-and-run, two misdemeanors and vehicular manslaughter, among other charges, in the Thursday death of Christopher "Buddy" Rowe of Santa Rosa.

Garcia had two prior arrests for driving without a license, according to the newspaper.

Christopher was reportedly killed on his way to soccer practice while crossing the street with his mother and two sisters, including the boy's twin.

"Little Buddy will be remembered as an energetic, curious, active young boy, who was also kind, compassionate and caring, especially with his twin sister," the family said in a written statement. "We will always remember his ever-present smile, beautiful steel-blue eyes and peace-loving nature.

"The man who stole Buddy's life from us will be one day free, but we will always carry the burden of losing him forever," the family said.

Garcia is being held in the Sonoma County Jail on a $500,000 bond.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/23/suspected-illegal-immig...

vgabndo - 8-23-2011 at 04:24 PM

...and those numbers, Wessongroup, are very important politically as well as financially. Counting on even non-partisan governmental organizations to give us the real, un-spun facts at this point, me thinks, is giving our public servants too much credit.

Maybe, to protect their trillion dollar investment in US paper, the communist Chinese will do a comprehensive study on the Mexican immigrant economic picture to back up their future requirements of the US in that area. Then we'd know. :fire:

JaraHurd - 8-26-2011 at 09:35 AM

Gotta jump in here for a brief moment.... I heard a statistic on the news (I know..I know..I know...silly me to trust the media..but...here it is..) that only about 60% of potential taxpayers in the US pay any Federal income tax at all. Hmmm.. How can this be? Well..if that is true (scary as hell....) or any where near true..we have a lot of WORTHLESS people living in this country and I seriously DOUBT they are Hispanic. What makes me say this?

Well... Having lived a substantial amount of my life (I am almost 50) in South Carolina and California...I would notice that while driving during my days off (which were normally NOT during weekends..) I would drive through neighborhoods in Charleston, South Carolina and now Los Angeles, California..I would see a lot of apparently able-bodied young (under 50...) people just lounging around..doing nothing, for days on end... .. and I gotta tell you...most of them are NOT Hispanic... yup..this has always peeed me off.

I was in boot camp at 17 doing stuff that most "Americans" will not do. I worked my way from the bottom (I can clean a toilet like no other...) to where I am now making a decent living. How the hell does the U.S government man its military? I have no idea because most young people today are NOT patriotic and will NOT serve their country. That is an absolute fact.

I look at what jobs young citizens of the U.S. will and won't do. It is scary. And they want to make a LOT of money to do minimal work. How the hell do they afford these fancy (and expensive) electronics that they love to play with...? I don't want to hear that illegals are taking jobs from American citizens. I think illegals simply work jobs that require work and those are jobs that U.S. citizens of any age will not do...

I don't know what the answers are..but...there is sure a lot of finger-pointing. I find the vast majority of illegal immigrants to be decent, hard-working people. It's a very tough issue. And all I know is... if the tables were reversed..and the USA was the poor country...I would cross that border illegally in a hot minute...

wessongroup - 8-26-2011 at 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
How 'bout a $538.3 billion tab to the US taxpayer annually. Info was found on national policy institute website among others.

Say isn't that around a half a TRILLION dollars... now that could add up to real money HUH !!!

But who's counting... well, just maybe the FED...

"Investors clamoring for the Fed to renew its quantitative-easing program heard no mention of it in Bernanke's much-anticipated Jackson Hole speech, the WSJ's Jon Hilsenrath says?

See them still buying Treasury.. and many going long bond .. the futures on 10 year T's is out over 130... just saying... :lol:

[Edited on 8-26-2011 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 8-26-2011 at 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MitchMan
I wonder what the stats are in California and for the entirety of the USA for measuring the net financial cost or the net financial benefit of the illegals in this country, to this country. Aside from any purely cultural issues (and there are substantial such issues), the aforementioned question is, to me, a huge pivotal question when evaluating the immigration issue and its solutions. TW above provided some stats to that effect.

Going back and forth with inflamatory statements without objective support is a bit reckless.

Whatever the accurate comprehensive pertinent stats support (either net deteriment or net benefit), I think that you have to incorporate the economic benefit to this country of paying illegals less than what would be paid for the same labor to legal residents in the absence of any illegals present in this country. In other words, do the illegal Mexican immigrants, on balance, contribute more to our USA economy than they cost (or consume) in this country? That's an objective question that needs to be answered with objective facts, not opinions.

I think that once that question is accurately answered, some of us may have to rethink the issue.

You'll never get accurate numbers especially from the anti-immigration crowd and think tanks like the supposedly independent "CIS" which is really a "white nationalist" front

see link below regarding CIS that's widely quoted)

http://www.splcenter.org/publications/the-nativist-lobby-thr...

Groups like CIS rarely if ever write about any tax revenue or benefits both legal and undocumented bring to this country.

The studies I have seen from both sides seem to show undocumented immigrants hurt local communities if they are concentrated in that community, and so undocumented immigration could be a net lost at the city and state level. However, when you look at it at the federal level. Immigration both legal and undocumented is a net plus because they are paying such things as social security, and most aren't hanging around to collect. And of course immigration of any kind has historically been a net positive in this country, despite the fact most immigrants to the USA have been demonized by the current xenophobic Americans at the time.

Again when you look at these type of immigration studies that tries to answer the question if immigrants especially Mexican undocumented immigrants help or hurt America at the federal, state, or city level. Look to see if they give the immigrants any credit at all, because even if the undocumented immigrant works under the table. He is still paying taxes indirectly, and many immigrants pay taxes directly too.

wessongroup - 8-26-2011 at 12:29 PM

Just couldn't resist a "shout out" huh JOe... :biggrin:

Seemed the original post quoted was devoid of any pandering... take it to OT..

Moderator assistant wessongroup ... :lol:

[Edited on 8-26-2011 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 8-26-2011 at 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
What "trash" are you referring to?

This is called talking out a broad paint brush and painting all undocumented Mexicans as drunk criminals that need to be deported back to Mexico.......the whole lot of them!

But if you ask me to respond to a negative portrayed story about an undocumented who killed an American while drunk.

I'd just say, "so what?" Every race or ethic group has their share of drunks who sometimes get behind the wheel and kill people including kids! There is no need to take the paint brush out and paint all immigrants documented or not with that paint brush. There are millions of Mexicans immigrants in the USA and many of them are undocumented, however it's safe to say 99 percent of them haven't killed anybody while drunk, and the vast majority of immigrants are hard working people trying to make a better life for themselves.

Cypress - 8-26-2011 at 02:31 PM

Quote:

I'd just say, "so what?" Every race or ethic group has their share of drunks who sometimes get behind the wheel and kill people including kids!

And???

Bajahowodd - 8-26-2011 at 03:11 PM

"The problem with today's economy is not immigrants; the problem is our broken immigration laws that allow big business to exploit workers who lack legal status, driving down wages for all workers. If every immigrant were required to get into the system, pay their dues, and become U.S. citizens, we could block big business' upper hand, eliminate the two-tiered workforce, and build a united labor movement that raises wages and living standards for all workers." This from the SEIU website page.

Seems that a far ranging assortment of interests groups have their own particular dog in this fight.

A primary reason that the US has not engaged in major reforms of the immigration laws and practices, is that no matter which party is in power in DC, business benefits from cheap labor and minimal or no benefits.

As far as the reference to the socio-economic status of the illegals that come here....well, if you were a Mexican of means, had a decent job, Etc., why would you risk your life to get NOB for a low wage job?

I noticed a story today about alleged cartel members torching a casino in Monterrey resulting in large scale loss of life.

So, Calderon, through an aide, puts out a blistering condemnation of the the US and its failure to do something about the demand for drugs.

So, let me see. The ruling class in Mexico is perfectly ok with not creating sufficient jobs in Mexico in order to keep their people on home soil, but have a major problem with US demand for drugs.

Seems to me that in both cases, NOB workers mailing money back home, and the cartels enriching themselves from vast drug profits, Mexico benefits.

I do have to agree with Joe about his observation about that hit and run guy, however. It could have been anyone. And if anyone would like to open that can of worms about providing drivers licenses to illegals, to ensure they learn how to drive properly and purchase insurance, be my guest.

[Edited on 8-26-2011 by Bajahowodd]

BajaGringo - 8-26-2011 at 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
How 'bout a $538.3 billion tab to the US taxpayer annually. Info was found on national policy institute website among others.

I agree that the US needs to secure the borders and enforce worker ID/SSN verification including heavy punishment for corporate abusers who have exploited the cheaper workforce. I also think they need to come up with some kind of manageable plan for those who are already in the country, working and part of the economy.

The $538.3 billion tab (based on what I read) was the cost for total services provided and did not credit the billions paid into the system via others SSN's, sales taxes, excise taxes at the pumps, permit fees, etc etc etc on top of what they pump into the economy in their local communities where they shop.

It is not a simple problem and the realistic answer will be just as complicated. I wish I knew what it was...

DENNIS - 8-26-2011 at 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
It is not a simple problem and the realistic answer will be just as complicated. I wish I knew what it was...

I think they should just have to buy us beer for the rest of our lives. :lol:

Well....you wanted simple.

JoeJustJoe - 8-26-2011 at 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JaraHurd
Gotta jump in here for a brief moment.... I heard a statistic on the news (I know..I know..I know...silly me to trust the media..but...here it is..) that only about 60% of potential taxpayers in the US pay any Federal income tax at all. Hmmm.. How can this be? Well..if that is true (scary as hell....) or any where near true..we have a lot of WORTHLESS people living in this country and I seriously DOUBT they are Hispanic. What makes me say this?

Well... Having lived a substantial amount of my life (I am almost 50) in South Carolina and California...I would notice that while driving during my days off (which were normally NOT during weekends..) I would drive through neighborhoods in Charleston, South Carolina and now Los Angeles, California..I would see a lot of apparently able-bodied young (under 50...) people just lounging around..doing nothing, for days on end... .. and I gotta tell you...most of them are NOT Hispanic... yup..this has always peeed me off.

I was in boot camp at 17 doing stuff that most "Americans" will not do. I worked my way from the bottom (I can clean a toilet like no other...) to where I am now making a decent living. How the hell does the U.S government man its military? I have no idea because most young people today are NOT patriotic and will NOT serve their country. That is an absolute fact.

I look at what jobs young citizens of the U.S. will and won't do. It is scary. And they want to make a LOT of money to do minimal work. How the hell do they afford these fancy (and expensive) electronics that they love to play with...? I don't want to hear that illegals are taking jobs from American citizens. I think illegals simply work jobs that require work and those are jobs that U.S. citizens of any age will not do...

I don't know what the answers are..but...there is sure a lot of finger-pointing. I find the vast majority of illegal immigrants to be decent, hard-working people. It's a very tough issue. And all I know is... if the tables were reversed..and the USA was the poor country...I would cross that border illegally in a hot minute...

Supposedly undocumented Mexicans take away jobs from hard working Americans who are willing to take any job including working on farms. Yeah right.

Now I'm not saying that Mexicans only do menial hard labor type jobs, because Mexicans do a wide range of work, and work in many industries in the US. However, many Mexican immigrants are willing to work in some of the most hard working menial back breaking industries like farm labor or meat packing industries.

In Alabama they have that mean-spirited unconstitutional new immigration law they are tying to get past the Federal courts that is even worst than Arizona's new immigration law that got it's teeth knocked out in the Federal courts, but still is in Federal courts.

Anyway just the threat of the new immigration law is hurting certain industries in Alabama, and is only a matter of time the new Alabama law becomes buried in court, and the immigrants return to Alabama because there is much demand for their work.

I really don't know states like Alabama and Arizona try to past such harsh new immigration laws, when it's obvious they are going to lose in court, and it's highly unlikely even if they win some of these court cases that they will be able keep immigrants out of their states when powerful industries demand lower cost workers, and have the ear of the politicians who do the bidding for them.
_____________________________________________

Immigration law already hurting farms

MONTGOMERY | Horticultural farm owner Bill Cook said he’s already having trouble finding the workers he needs before most of the state’s new law against illegal immigration takes effect.

Representatives of the Alabama Department of Agriculture, Alabama Farmer’s Federation and other groups that work with growers said some farmers have told them they’ve already lost half their workforce. The state doesn’t have official figures yet, however.

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20110808/news/11080978...

BajaGringo - 8-26-2011 at 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
It is not a simple problem and the realistic answer will be just as complicated. I wish I knew what it was...

I think they should just have to buy us beer for the rest of our lives. :lol:

Well....you wanted simple.

I love a bright mind that can come up with simple yet brilliant answers to complicated problems.

Salud my friend!