BajaNomad - Mexican Nationals discriminated against in Baja?

Mexican Nationals discriminated against in Baja?

Ken Cooke - 9-16-2011 at 08:53 PM

Feliz Dia de la Independencia...

I was shocked at this article about discrimination AGAINST Mexicans in Baja. One of the reasons I travel in Baja is to not deal with those who routinely discriminate against me. So, I found this article disheartening.

http://www.afntijuana.info/informacion_general/3660_discrimi...

English-version

Carlos Valdez Branches, tijuanense tourist, denounced that she was victim of an attitude of discrimination on the part of the manager of a denominated hotel “Alfonsina´s”, located in the bay of Gonzaga San Luis in the municipality of Cove, when went along with its family to the place to spend the weekend.

According to the version of Valdez Branches, the past 3 of September went in company of other 16 people, relatives and friendly, to the recreational space to spend a weekend; when arriving at the place one went with the manager to ask for the rent of some rooms, to which the employee responded: “All are Mexican”.

“I need to know if they are Mexican because they throw much water, they do not consume in the restaurant and they leave much cochinero” said the one in charge to him of the business, in a whole that the paseante described like “tyrant”, when it asked the reasons for the questioning, and after which the aforesaid one moved away leaving it with the word in the mouth.

Moments before asking for the origin of the possible clients, the employee recognized that there were two rooms available in the hotel, nevertheless, these were denied to the knowledge that were Mexican.

“Peculiarly” he said the affected one, the person also discriminated who them “was Mexican”.
She emphasized that when leaving the premises along with their family, among them people of the third age, went towards a powerboat where the workers commented, when some knew the happened thing, that type of situations discriminatorias on the part of the hotel personnel was continuous.

The majority of those who stay itself in that place is of North American origin, showed Valdez Branches, reason why it was sorry that a preferential treatment exists towards the same connacionales that their visitors deal with contemptuous way.

“What she bothered to me more she is that he was a Mexican (who discriminates) and have preference by people of another nationality; one is going to pay what the hotel… what pain that in Mexico occurs this type of situations here” referred, with annoyance costs.

The Secretariat of Tourism of the government of the state of frequent way invites to the bajacalifornianos “to be tourist in its state” and to visit the different municipalities from the state as well as the establishments that supposedly are for taking care of the same Mexicans.

TIJUANA BC 12 DE SEPTIEMBRE DE 2011 (AFN).- Carlos Valdez Ramos, turista tijuanense, denunció que fue víctima de una actitud de discriminación por parte del gerente de un hotel denominado "Alfonsina´s", ubicado en la bahía de San Luis Gonzaga en el municipio de Ensenada, cuando fue junto con su familia al lugar para pasar el fin de semana.

Conforme a la versión de Valdez Ramos, el pasado 3 de septiembre se dirigió en compañía de otras 16 personas, familiares y amigos, al espacio recreativo para pasar un fin de semana; al llegar al lugar se dirigió con el gerente para solicitar la renta de algunas habitaciones, a lo que el empleado respondió: "¿Todos son mexicanos?".

"Necesito saber si son mexicanos porque tiran mucha agua, no consumen en el restaurante y dejan mucho cochinero” le dijo el encargado del negocio, en un todo que el paseante calificó como "déspota", cuando preguntó los motivos del cuestionamiento, y tras lo que el susodicho se alejó dejándolo con la palabra en la boca.

Momentos antes de preguntar por el origen de los posibles clientes, el empleado reconoció que había dos habitaciones disponibles en el hotel, sin embargo, éstas fueron negadas al saber que eran mexicanos.

“Curiosamente” dijo el afectado, la persona que los discriminó “también era mexicano”.
Destacó que al salir del local junto con su familia, entre ellos personas de la tercera edad, se dirigieron hacia una gasolinera donde los trabajadores comentaron, cuando algunos supieron lo sucedido, que ese tipo de situaciones discriminatorias por parte del personal hotelero eran continuas.

La mayoría de quienes se hospedan en ese lugar son de origen norteamericano, manifestó Valdez Ramos, por lo que lamentó que exista un trato preferencial hacia los mismos connacionales que tratan de manera despectiva a sus visitantes.

“Lo que más me molestó es que fue un mexicano (quien discrimina) y tienen preferencia por gente de otra nacionalidad; uno va a pagar lo que cuesta el hotel… qué pena que aquí en México se den este tipo de situaciones” refirió, con molestia.

La Secretaría de Turismo del gobierno del estado de manera frecuente invita a los bajacalifornianos a “ser turistas en su estado” y a visitar los diferentes municipios del estado así como los establecimientos que supuestamente están para atender a los mismos mexicanos.

David K - 9-17-2011 at 07:38 AM

Ken, the manager of Alfonsina's (Antonio) has descriminated agains Americans (white ones) as well! If you read back on Nomad long enough you will hear how gringos arrived at Alfonsina's only to be told by Antonio that there were no rooms available. In some cases, (after Antonio sees you are not a jerk, perhaps) rooms will magically become vacant.

I am not saying it is right, (it isn't)... I am just saying that Alfonsina's sometimes 'plays a game' with potential guests in order to weed out ones that might be too noisey, messy, rude, whatever.

I suggest you arrive, meet the staff, sit down and order drinks, and after chilling down having driven several bumpy miles to get there, inquire about the rooms.

woody with a view - 9-17-2011 at 07:50 AM

or just boycott the jerk!

DENNIS - 9-17-2011 at 07:55 AM

Ramos = Branches :lol:

Doncha just love Google Translate

KurtG - 9-17-2011 at 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Ken, the manager of Alfonsina's (Antonio) has descriminated agains Americans (white ones) as well! If you read back on Nomad long enough you will hear how gringos arrived at Alfonsina's only to be told by Antonio that there were no rooms available. In some cases, (after Antonio sees you are not a jerk, perhaps) rooms will magically become vacant.

I am not saying it is right, (it isn't)... I am just saying that Alfonsina's sometimes 'plays a game' with potential guests in order to weed out ones that might be too noisey, messy, rude, whatever.

I suggest you arrive, meet the staff, sit down and order drinks, and after chilling down having driven several bumpy miles to get there, inquire about the rooms.

I can't imagine that Kathy and I appeared rude or noisey but he played that game with us last year. When I then suggested to Kathy that we continue on to Papa's and if necessary pitch our tent there Antonio suddenly had a room for us. He quoted a rate and I offered $10 less which he accepted. After that he was very cordial and we had a nice dinner there and breakfast as well. Seems to be a little routine that he has going.

Supply and Demand

JoeJSalman - 9-17-2011 at 09:37 AM

I haven't been to Alfonsinas in a few years, but we were treated well. The number of rooms available and the number of guests who want to rent those rooms creates a situation where the manager is in a position to choose what he feels will be the best-behaved guests. I suppose that their empirical experience results in some stereotypical choices.

David K - 9-17-2011 at 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KurtG

Quote:

Now Kurt, you look every bit to be a wild and crazy party animal!

Here you only need to touch my truck to make the bumper curl (as I point out your powers of destruction)!:

akshadow - 9-17-2011 at 10:14 AM

maybe the problem was 17 people and two rooms?

David K - 9-17-2011 at 10:19 AM

Alfonsina's motel is bigger than that!

Here is a pretty good guide to Gonzaga Bay and what's there from the late Carlos Fiesta's BajaExpo.com site: http://www.bajaexpo.com/cities/gonzaga.htm

akshadow - 9-17-2011 at 10:27 AM

The article said there were two rooms available at that time.
"Moments before asking for the origin of the possible clients, the employee recognized that there were two rooms available in the hotel, "

Oddjob - 9-17-2011 at 10:27 AM

You don't know how many rooms were available. If there were only two rooms for seventeen guests you can't blame Antonio for not wanting to rent to them.

JESSE - 9-17-2011 at 10:52 AM

They shouldn't be playing ANY games, or conducting any type of selection to see wich guests are better than others, thats just plain wrong, a BIG no no. Either your open and have rooms, or you don't.

David K - 9-17-2011 at 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by akshadow
The article said there were two rooms available at that time.
"Moments before asking for the origin of the possible clients, the employee recognized that there were two rooms available in the hotel, "

OK... well for others reading this... it is a 10 room motel, plus they have the older rooms next to the kitchen and a public shower.

Here is the 2 story motel on the left... and the restaurant/ bar on the right:

The beach in front of Alfonsina's:

JESSE - 9-17-2011 at 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oddjob

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
They shouldn't be playing ANY games, or conducting any type of selection to see wich guests are better than others, thats just plain wrong, a BIG no no. Either your open and have rooms, or you don't.

So does the same go for you at your restaurant?

Yes and i am very proud of that. I once told the former BCS governor that he couldn't do certain things at our place ( he wanted me to kick out some customers because he wanted to have fun with his friends) because we consider ourselves a family restaurant. That was the only time i ever saw him at my place and off course i lost a lot of his business. Just the other night a whole bunch of hard core mexican bikers came in for dinner, they didnt look friendy at all, but as long as they respect the other customers, they have a right to be treated like everyone else.

JESSE - 9-17-2011 at 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oddjob
You don't know how many rooms were available. If there were only two rooms for seventeen guests you can't blame Antonio for not wanting to rent to them.

Thats not the problem, he has the right to deny them the rooms because 17 is too many people for 2 rooms. But there is a big problem when they use, race, nationality, or gender in order to confirm or deny you service. Theres strict laws against that in Mexico.

David K - 9-17-2011 at 11:25 AM

Good for you Jesse!

woody with a view - 9-17-2011 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Thats not the problem, he has the right to deny them the rooms because 17 is too many people for 2 rooms. But there is a big problem when they use, race, nationality, or gender in order to confirm or deny you service. Theres strict laws against that in Mexico.

same as NOB. it's called a capitalistic democracy. lately tho, it seems that the vocal minority (didn't get a room) dictates to the masses.... maybe the 17 should have accepted the fact that there were only 2 rooms. maybe if they wanted to sleep on the floor, times the number of guests, divided by 2 per room (8x a room rate?) they should have told that to our racist bidness man who could have structured his prices acordingly, bought the offended neighbor guests a margarita, and be called innovative?

my guess is Sr Alphonsino is just playing games with the people who go out that way, to the (nearly) only game in town? visitors arrive expecting to be treated like a normal paying customer and this yahoo wants to compensate by playing games? it's one of these two scenario's. sucks if you are stuck in the sand out front without a room......

stay elsewhere. better yet, order drinks and dinner at the restraunt and when this guy says, "no rooms" just get up and leave. hopefully, he'll count on his finger and toes how much bidness he's kicking down the road....

but prolly not.

[Edited on 9-17-2011 by woody with a view]

DENNIS - 9-17-2011 at 12:13 PM

Maybe this guy needs a dose of discrimination....a la Cd. Constitución.

Ken Cooke - 9-17-2011 at 02:21 PM

No discriminating against such a HANDSOME SPANISH-SPEAKING Baja traveler! :yes:

Woooosh - 9-17-2011 at 02:37 PM

Quote:

Depend who is cleaning up after them I guess...

CP - 9-17-2011 at 02:37 PM

Quote:

Just the other night a whole bunch of hard core mexican bikers came in for dinner, they didnt look friendy at all, but as long as they respect the other customers, they have a right to be treated like everyone else.

A whole bunch of hard core bikers of any nationality dining at the upscale and lovely Tres Virgenes makes an intesting picture.
:lol:

DENNIS - 9-17-2011 at 02:39 PM

Had to be the La Paz chapter of the Solo Angeles. Nice guys.
Did they use utensils or did they just lay their faces in the plate?

TMW - 9-17-2011 at 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
No discriminating against such a HANDSOME SPANISH-SPEAKING Baja traveler! :yes:

Why would anyone rent a room to this guy? He drives a Jeep, need I say more.

My T-Shirt is in Español

Ken Cooke - 9-17-2011 at 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
No discriminating against such a HANDSOME SPANISH-SPEAKING Baja traveler! :yes:

Why would anyone rent a room to this guy? He drives a Jeep, need I say more.

Just looking at my T-shirt, ANYONE in Latin America would recognize that I am a worldly traveler of Anthony Bourdain-calibre!

Woooosh - 9-17-2011 at 10:27 PM

Every Hotel or Restaurant or Bar has the right to refuse service. It's just not a smart business practice.

David K - 9-17-2011 at 11:35 PM

I am not sure if Ken should be wearing a shirt from an event in Colombia anywhere in Latin America

David K - 9-17-2011 at 11:38 PM

I mean, it is like you are asking for problems!

Ken knows that he is already being profiled in Mexico, as it is!

JESSE - 9-18-2011 at 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
No discriminating against such a HANDSOME SPANISH-SPEAKING Baja traveler! :yes:

Why would anyone rent a room to this guy? He drives a Jeep, need I say more.

Yet he drinks Perrier :lol:

Ken Cooke - 9-18-2011 at 06:23 AM

Only H20 in the desert, amigos! :yes:

Good sense and good business

JoeJSalman - 9-19-2011 at 09:52 AM

I've never known a small businessman in Baja or elsewhere who wasn't interested in making all he could and made his decisions weighing risk against profit. If that businessman doesn't feel comfortable dealing with a person or group, it should be his decision to make. If he offends too many people, he'll lose business. That is the way that it should be.

norte - 9-19-2011 at 10:18 AM

I notice the merchants enjoying free B&B/campground/housing/hotels advertizing on this board have not chimed in. Seems you would have good input.

Von - 9-19-2011 at 10:22 AM

When 16 mexicans show up for just two rooms i too would be scared lol! im Mexican, what do you expect the few that ruin it for the rest of us give us a bad rep. Nobody wants us, oh well no big deal. Get over it! Thats how it is unless you have lots of $$$ to show off lol! Have fun boycott them i will!

CortezBlue - 9-19-2011 at 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Feliz Dia de la Independencia...

I was shocked at this article about discrimination AGAINST Mexicans in Baja. One of the reasons I travel in Baja is to not deal with those who routinely discriminate against me. So, I found this article disheartening.

http://www.afntijuana.info/informacion_general/3660_discrimi...

English-version

Carlos Valdez Branches, tijuanense tourist, denounced that she was victim of an attitude of discrimination on the part of the manager of a denominated hotel “Alfonsina´s”, located in the bay of Gonzaga San Luis in the municipality of Cove, when went along with its family to the place to spend the weekend.

According to the version of Valdez Branches, the past 3 of September went in company of other 16 people, relatives and friendly, to the recreational space to spend a weekend; when arriving at the place one went with the manager to ask for the rent of some rooms, to which the employee responded: “All are Mexican”.

“I need to know if they are Mexican because they throw much water, they do not consume in the restaurant and they leave much cochinero” said the one in charge to him of the business, in a whole that the paseante described like “tyrant”, when it asked the reasons for the questioning, and after which the aforesaid one moved away leaving it with the word in the mouth.

Moments before asking for the origin of the possible clients, the employee recognized that there were two rooms available in the hotel, nevertheless, these were denied to the knowledge that were Mexican.

“Peculiarly” he said the affected one, the person also discriminated who them “was Mexican”.
She emphasized that when leaving the premises along with their family, among them people of the third age, went towards a powerboat where the workers commented, when some knew the happened thing, that type of situations discriminatorias on the part of the hotel personnel was continuous.

The majority of those who stay itself in that place is of North American origin, showed Valdez Branches, reason why it was sorry that a preferential treatment exists towards the same connacionales that their visitors deal with contemptuous way.

“What she bothered to me more she is that he was a Mexican (who discriminates) and have preference by people of another nationality; one is going to pay what the hotel… what pain that in Mexico occurs this type of situations here” referred, with annoyance costs.

The Secretariat of Tourism of the government of the state of frequent way invites to the bajacalifornianos “to be tourist in its state” and to visit the different municipalities from the state as well as the establishments that supposedly are for taking care of the same Mexicans.

TIJUANA BC 12 DE SEPTIEMBRE DE 2011 (AFN).- Carlos Valdez Ramos, turista tijuanense, denunció que fue víctima de una actitud de discriminación por parte del gerente de un hotel denominado "Alfonsina´s", ubicado en la bahía de San Luis Gonzaga en el municipio de Ensenada, cuando fue junto con su familia al lugar para pasar el fin de semana.

Conforme a la versión de Valdez Ramos, el pasado 3 de septiembre se dirigió en compañía de otras 16 personas, familiares y amigos, al espacio recreativo para pasar un fin de semana; al llegar al lugar se dirigió con el gerente para solicitar la renta de algunas habitaciones, a lo que el empleado respondió: "¿Todos son mexicanos?".

"Necesito saber si son mexicanos porque tiran mucha agua, no consumen en el restaurante y dejan mucho cochinero” le dijo el encargado del negocio, en un todo que el paseante calificó como "déspota", cuando preguntó los motivos del cuestionamiento, y tras lo que el susodicho se alejó dejándolo con la palabra en la boca.

Momentos antes de preguntar por el origen de los posibles clientes, el empleado reconoció que había dos habitaciones disponibles en el hotel, sin embargo, éstas fueron negadas al saber que eran mexicanos.

“Curiosamente” dijo el afectado, la persona que los discriminó “también era mexicano”.
Destacó que al salir del local junto con su familia, entre ellos personas de la tercera edad, se dirigieron hacia una gasolinera donde los trabajadores comentaron, cuando algunos supieron lo sucedido, que ese tipo de situaciones discriminatorias por parte del personal hotelero eran continuas.

La mayoría de quienes se hospedan en ese lugar son de origen norteamericano, manifestó Valdez Ramos, por lo que lamentó que exista un trato preferencial hacia los mismos connacionales que tratan de manera despectiva a sus visitantes.

“Lo que más me molestó es que fue un mexicano (quien discrimina) y tienen preferencia por gente de otra nacionalidad; uno va a pagar lo que cuesta el hotel… qué pena que aquí en México se den este tipo de situaciones” refirió, con molestia.

La Secretaría de Turismo del gobierno del estado de manera frecuente invita a los bajacalifornianos a “ser turistas en su estado” y a visitar los diferentes municipios del estado así como los establecimientos que supuestamente están para atender a los mismos mexicanos.

Right wrong or otherwise, you ain't in Kansas no more Dorthy.

This is part of the freedoms that everyone talks about by getting out of the USA and going to Baja.

They have the freedom to do what they want because it is their country and nothing changes fast.

I have permanent residency in Mexico and it is more difficult for me to fly from the US to Mexico than it is for you.

I have to enter the Mexican Line and show my Mexican paperwork and my US paperwork, and I am a resident.

But it is part of their process and they have the right to do so.

Bottom line, you either accept it or stop taking your Jeep to Baja.

[Edited on 9-19-2011 by CortezBlue]

JESSE - 9-19-2011 at 10:30 AM

I don't thing many here are getting it. The hotel has all the right in the world to deny them service, or simply say "theres no rooms available" even if there are. What they can't do is to first ask if they are Mexican, American, Canadian, Gay, Straight, Jewish, Women, Men, and THEN deny them service.

You don't play games with that, simply say theres no rooms available, but don't play games and deny them service because they are any of the above, THEN its discrimination.

DENNIS - 9-19-2011 at 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
I don't thing many here are getting it. The hotel has all the right in the world to deny them service, or simply say "theres no rooms available" even if there are.

Well...I think I do get it. "It" is not a matter of rights...it's a matter of decency. If the guy is going to be an indecent a-hole just because he has a right to be, he needs some serious boycott attention.

JESSE - 9-19-2011 at 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
I don't thing many here are getting it. The hotel has all the right in the world to deny them service, or simply say "theres no rooms available" even if there are.

Well, he can legally be an a-hole, and the market can decide if they boycott him. But if the allegations are true, then its illegal and subject to an investigation and fine. If they catch you denying service based on gender or ethncity your screwed.

DENNIS - 9-19-2011 at 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
If they catch you denying service based on gender or ethncity your screwed.

In that case, I apologize to all concerned if I ever had the nasty thought that we were getting special attention for DWG....Driving While Gringo. :lol:

Jes kiddin', Jesse. I see your point and do agree with you.
Still...a boycott might be fun....a muscle flexing excercise, so to speak.....kinda like bringing those ICBMs out of their silo regularly to give them air.

greengoes - 9-19-2011 at 01:31 PM

I have seen locals check into high-end hotels and proceed to fire up their BBQ's on the friggin balconies rather than eat out. If he wants to avoid this more power to him. Question him when all potential customers act on a civilized level.

J.P. - 9-19-2011 at 05:31 PM

I know a Gringo Hotel operator in Baja Sur that says he prefers the local vacitioning crowd over the gringo crowd, he claims the locals spend more and are less trouble.

Oddjob - 9-19-2011 at 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.
I know a Gringo Hotel operator in Baja Sur that says he prefers the local vacitioning crowd over the gringo crowd, he claims the locals spend more and are less trouble.

You are dreaming.

CortezBlue - 9-19-2011 at 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
I don't thing many here are getting it. The hotel has all the right in the world to deny them service, or simply say "theres no rooms available" even if there are.

I love it when all of you folks talk about how they wish baja would never change become Americanized, and yet you are the ones talking "boycott"

Boy coating to change Baja to make it have equality.

Let's be honest in today's environment in Mexico you have to have people interested in traveling in order to have a boycott.

So make up your mind, take Baja as it is or boycott it, but you can't have it both ways

DENNIS - 9-19-2011 at 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue
So make up your mind, take Baja as it is or boycott it, but you can't have it both ways

There's good reason to believe that it had an effect on Cd. Constitución and if taking unethical purveyors is part of accepting Baja as it is, you can have that part. I enjoy seeing the place from a standing position rather than bent over.

Ken Cooke - 9-19-2011 at 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue
I have permanent residency in Mexico and it is more difficult for me to fly from the US to Mexico than it is for you.

I have to enter the Mexican Line and show my Mexican paperwork and my US paperwork, and I am a resident.

But it is part of their process and they have the right to do so.

Bottom line, you either accept it or stop taking your Jeep to Baja.

[Edited on 9-19-2011 by CortezBlue]

My Wife and I happen to provide COLOMBIAN paperwork for her US Residency. So, what's going on in Ciudad Constitucion???

[Edited on 9-20-2011 by Ken Cooke]

DENNIS - 9-20-2011 at 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
So, what's going on in Ciudad Constitucion???

How soon you forget, Ken. Doncha remember a while back the thread and efforts to fight back against rampant police street extortion?
Letting the merchants know they were being bypassed because of the crime?
All of a sudden, it stopped...relatively anyway. Had the pressure not been applied, they never would have stopped. These cops were not the types of guys who would turn there backs on free money without a strong reason.

Ken Cooke - 9-20-2011 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
So, what's going on in Ciudad Constitucion???

Did any impartial group track the effects of this informal boycott?

DENNIS - 9-20-2011 at 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Did any impartial group track the effects of this informal boycott?

Yes. The Organization of American States positioned a monitor at each intersection and audited every police officer's bank acount.
When the street cops were promised stringent justice in the World Court, they ammended their ways.
Charges are pending.

Play like you are broke - that's an act my wife is used to!

Ken Cooke - 9-20-2011 at 05:58 PM

I stopped in Cd. Constitucion twice...in 2001. I would have refused to pay the $$$ if I were asked to pay up.

The last time I was stopped in Tijuana - for having tinted windows, I simply refused to pay $$$.

The last time I was stopped in Mexicali for towing with a 4WD tow strap, I refused to pay $$$.

DENNIS - 9-20-2011 at 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
I stopped in Cd. Constitucion twice...in 2001. I would have refused to pay the $$$ if I were asked to pay up.

The last time I was stopped in Tijuana - for having tinted windows, I simply refused to pay $$$.

The last time I was stopped in Mexicali for towing with a 4WD tow strap, I refused to pay $$$.

OK...we get it. You keep breaking the law, then you refuse to pay. Very impressive.
Just say "NO."

You'll be getting a phone call from the World Court. :lol:

BREAKING THE LAW!!

Ken Cooke - 9-20-2011 at 07:47 PM