BajaNomad - American slain in botched Ajijic robbery

American slain in botched Ajijic robbery

Mengano - 11-30-2011 at 11:58 AM

A U.S. citizen was murdered in the carport of his Ajijic home during an attempted robbery Tuesday, November 29.

Stephen Christopher Kahr, 69, died almost instantly after being shot in the chest by an unknown assailant, according to Chapala Ministerio Publico (MP) agent Fernando Gutierrez Santillan.

Gutierrez told the Reporter that the shooting occurred as Kahr and his wife were unloading groceries from their car, parked on the street just outside their residence at Calle Donato Guerra on the corner of 16 de Septiembre.

Witnesses told authorities that a young man followed Kahr into the carport and attempted to snatch his wallet from his back pants pocket, while his wife was still gathering shopping bags from the car. When the victim swirled to resist the assault, the would-be robber fired his weapon straight on and then quickly escaped on foot, heading east on 16 de Septiembre.

The killer was described as a young, well-dressed Mexican of slender build, with a thin face and fair skin.

Gutierrez said that Chapala police officers arriving at the scene promptly spread out to comb the neighborhood, rounding up several suspects, none of whom matched the physical description of the perpetrator.

Meanwhile, the Chapala Red Cross responded to an emergency call placed at around 11:15 a.m. Paramedics who attended to Kahr said they applied advanced CPR techniques, but were unable to revive him due to the gravity of his gunshot wound.

The MP agent, along with his investigators and a state police unit, inspected and guarded the crime scene until a team from the Jalisco Forensics Institute arrived to gather evidence and remove Kahr’s body. The corpse was taken for an autopsy in Ocotlan around 3 p.m.

During the ordeal, police officers allowed several friends and neighbors to go inside the house to comfort Kahr’s stunned widow.

Gutierrez said investigators found the victim’s wallet on his person, indicating that the killer ran off empty-handed.

The MP official said the murder does not appear to be linked to organized crime groups involved in a growing number of shooting incidents that have plagued the north shore area since the start of the year. He speculated, however, that the fatal assault bears some similarities to a series of late-night home invasion robberies that have been denounced by foreign residents in recent weeks.

http://www.guadalajarareporter.com/news-mainmenu-82/lake-cha...

DENNIS - 11-30-2011 at 12:14 PM

Terrible. Sickening. I am so sorry.

Woooosh - 11-30-2011 at 01:05 PM

I don't get these "it happens everywhere replies" to any Baja crimes. Since when is Escondido a tourist destination? I have had THREE people murdered in my Rosarito Beach neighborhood in the past months. I have lived in a lot of places in the States- some fairly dangerous (BOS, NYC, DEN, SFO, SAN, LA, Long Beach and Memphis) but never had three murders in the exact area where I live before. And downtown Rosartio Beach IS a tourist destination. I don't get the apples to oranges comparisons all the time... because they compare nothing imho.

BajaNomad - 11-30-2011 at 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't get these "it happens everywhere replies" to any Baja crimes.

I believe the point being made was that Ajijic is closer to Mexico City than the southernmost tip of the Baja Peninsula (and separated by a vast body of water). Someone not familiar with this ex-pat destination in Jalisco might surmise that this has happened in Baja - which is not the case.

There are however ex-pat Baja residents that are watching news of - and are concerned about - violent crime against foreigners throughout the country.

[Edited on 11-30-2011 by BajaNomad]

JoeJustJoe - 11-30-2011 at 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
Closer to home

Good story Soulpatch. This just goes to show you that there is some sort of news blackout in Mexico about the dangers of living in the US and places like Escondido where they have some big bald white guy with crooked teeth running around trying to rape young teen girls!

Everybody in Mexico should be alerted to the dangers of Escondido and how it's even too dangerous to visit Escondido let alone live there. Escondido in fact is a very hostile city to Mexicans, espeically undocumented Mexicans, and Mexicans everywhere sure be made aware of that fact. ( thank God for the courts and Jerry Brown that make Escondido repeal their stupid laws they try to pass)

The story about murder of a US citizen in Ajijic is too far away from Baja to have any real interest. Where is Ajijic anyway? Isn't that in Jalisco or somewhere far away?

C'mon shouldn't the stories be a little closer to home?

That's like be being a reporter in Southern California, and because it's a slow news day.( no murders) You decide to cover a local story about some murder in Detroit.

From the Soulpatch link and the SDUT article:

The attacker was described by the girl as a white man in his 30s, bald, 6-foot-2 with a muscular build, crooked teeth and long blond arm hair. He was wearing a faded black T-shirt, black jeans and black work shoes. The girl told police he was in a 1990s-model station wagon-type vehicle that was white with a black stripe on the side.

cielo - 11-30-2011 at 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't get these "it happens everywhere replies" to any Baja crimes. Since when is Escondido a tourist destination? I have had THREE people murdered in my Rosarito Beach neighborhood in the past months. I have lived in a lot of places in the States- some fairly dangerous (BOS, NYC, DEN, SFO, SAN, LA, Long Beach and Memphis) but never had three murders in the exact area where I live before. And downtown Rosartio Beach IS a tourist destination. I don't get the apples to oranges comparisons all the time... because they compare nothing imho.

Out of curiosity, why do you continue to live there? I spend most of my time vacationing in Cabo, Todos Santos etc. I have no interest in being in Baja Norte.

DENNIS - 11-30-2011 at 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo
Out of curiosity, why do you continue to live there?

Can't just walk away from a large investment and there is little to no real estate market.
I'm in the same boat.

Woooosh - 11-30-2011 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo

Quote:

Out of curiosity, why do you continue to live there? I spend most of my time vacationing in Cabo, Todos Santos etc. I have no interest in being in Baja Norte.

I'm not on vacation. I live with my Mexican family in a nice Mexican neighborhood in a house I spent eight years planning and building. Why would I change any of that? Just because Baja has? If Mexicans can handle it, I can handle it. Kidnap attempts, carjacking, phone extortion, an extortion resulting in decapitation, and still one family member missing for over a year- so we've been through it all in the past four or five years. But so has every other Mexican family- we're not special and have not been singled out. Usually we are ahead of the news curve because we live in the middle of it and talk to our neighbors. The narco violence sucked for everyone and we hope El Chapo will restore the peace now that he has taken over Baja.

Islandbuilder - 11-30-2011 at 04:45 PM

I think that many of us our fear of being a crime victim is lower in our familiar community than it is in a place where we feel like outsiders. I am familiar enough with the community in which I live to know who, where and when to avoid. In the "big city" or any foreign country, I don't know enough to be able to act appropriately to be safe.
My brother in law has lived in San Jose, Costa Rica for over 35 years, in a quiet neighborhood. But he won't walk from his house to his can on the street without slipping a gun into his waist band and double locking the front door. He's not freaked out by fear, he's just being self reliant.
Many of us NOB are used to our personal safety being someone else's responsibility, and we make assumpitions that can lead to our injury. We are accustomed to assuming that because there's no warning sign or fence on the edge of a cliff, it must be safe to walk right to the edge. We assume we can walk down a sidewalk without watching our feet, because there are codes for steps and holes aren't allowed due to liability concerns.
We gringos have become pretty weak and foolish from all the coddling we are subject to.
Not that we should accept crime in our neighorhoods, whether that is in Escondido, Detroit or Ensenada, but we do need to be personally responsible and not leave that to someone else.
IMHO, that is.

Woooosh - 11-30-2011 at 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Islandbuilder
I think that many of us our fear of being a crime victim is lower in our familiar community than it is in a place where we feel like outsiders. I am familiar enough with the community in which I live to know who, where and when to avoid. In the "big city" or any foreign country, I don't know enough to be able to act appropriately to be safe.
My brother in law has lived in San Jose, Costa Rica for over 35 years, in a quiet neighborhood. But he won't walk from his house to his can on the street without slipping a gun into his waist band and double locking the front door. He's not freaked out by fear, he's just being self reliant.
Many of us NOB are used to our personal safety being someone else's responsibility, and we make assumpitions that can lead to our injury. We are accustomed to assuming that because there's no warning sign or fence on the edge of a cliff, it must be safe to walk right to the edge. We assume we can walk down a sidewalk without watching our feet, because there are codes for steps and holes aren't allowed due to liability concerns.
We gringos have become pretty weak and foolish from all the coddling we are subject to.
Not that we should accept crime in our neighorhoods, whether that is in Escondido, Detroit or Ensenada, but we do need to be personally responsible and not leave that to someone else.
IMHO, that is.

well said!

Bajahowodd - 11-30-2011 at 05:20 PM

Ajijic is most likely the single largest ex-pat community in Mexico. It has drawn folks from the US, Canada, and even UK for decades. Its draw has been associated with the fact that while it is far South of the border, it is near a major Mexican city that provides world class medical care, shopping, and an major international airport.

Ajijic is fundamentally a group of walled communities, and has long prided itself as being the un-Mexico.

On some level, unless the victim here was engaged in nefarious activities in and around Guadalajara, I would consider that there just might be some level of envy/rage within the local poverty stricken community that would cause someone to act out.

All that said, Given that Ajijic is on the mainland, just wondering why it is that Doug left this post on the main board, especially considerong the source of the post. Someone who obviously contributes nothing but negative stuff about Baja and Mexico. Just sayin'.............

cielo - 11-30-2011 at 05:25 PM

Quote:

The narco violence sucked for everyone and we hope El Chapo will restore the peace now that he has taken over Baja.

How can a drug lord restore peace? Do you think the Drug violence will ever end? If so, how? Some Mexicans think that once Calderon is done and if the declared war on the cartels ends that things will go back to how they were before Calderon was elected. The situation is heartbreaking to those of us Americans who love Mexico. I have a home in Cabo and love being there if Cabo turns into Rosarito it can sit there empty for all I care. Having to dodge stray bullets and worry about being kidnapped is not my idea of a relaxing vacation.

Mengano - 11-30-2011 at 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Islandbuilder
..but we do need to be personally responsible and not leave that to someone else.

In the news story above, where a 69-year old man was shot as he was unloading the groceries from his car in Mexico, what could he have legally and physically done to prevent his death? Remember that he is 69 and living in Mexico. He cannot legally carry a firearm and he has to go buy food to eat. As I see it, his only choice was to die on his patio.

This is not even an isolated incident. Most of these crimes against Americans are not reported or under reported. Last week in Puerto Vallara, 65-year old David W. Reitz III, was stabbed to death in his apartment.

http://www.guadalajarareporter.com/news-mainmenu-82/pacific-...

Last month 66-year old Robert Frey was murdered in Ensenada, and 65-year old Gary Barlow was murdered a few days later in the same town. Three Americans and a Canadian have been murdered so far this year in San Miguel De Allende. Look up the names of the victims: Peter Mudge - 85, Joseph Feuerborn - 80, Judith Zena Baylis - 64.

It's open season on Gringos and it is not even being reported. Instead, all you hear is whining from Prince Howard about negativity. Does anybody here think Bajahowodd cares about your well being? Does anybody here think Howard wants to make sure travelers get the information they need to make an informed decision? Howard does not want anybody here thinking for themselves, his job is to make sure no bad news gets discussed. He also thinks the only reason why Communism is not the predominant economic system in the world is that nobody has found the right leaders to make it work.

Mengano - 11-30-2011 at 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo
Some Mexicans think that once Calderon is done and if the declared war on the cartels ends that things will go back to how they were before Calderon was elected.

That is very possible. Mexico is a country founded on appeasement and co-opting rivals to gain peace. A totally corrupt peace. If that ever comes to pass, there will be a Cold War between the US and Mexico. In order for things to go back to how they were in Mexico, it would have to cease all cooperation with the US on stopping drug cartels. The Merida initiative would be a failure. US interests operating in Mexico that are monitoring the cartels and coordinating with Mexican authorities would get the boot. US spy drones would stop flying. Mexico would stop extraditing captured drug lords to the US. No information could be shared as it would be passed to the cartels immediately.

The US would give Mexico the cold shoulder and probably give Mexico the travel restrictions it deserves, instead of tippy-toeing around the issue.

Mexicans need to be careful what they wish for.

wessongroup - 11-30-2011 at 06:15 PM

Good stuff..

Islandbuilder - 11-30-2011 at 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mengano

Quote:

Originally posted by Islandbuilder
..but we do need to be personally responsible and not leave that to someone else.

A valid point. No matter how prepared we are, we can always be out gunned or have our security system defeated.
That doesn't mean that we don't do what we can to insure our safety. Nor does it mean that we don't become involved in our communities. Again, IMHO, walled compounds of wealthy gringos amidst the indigenous poor is more likely to be part of the problem than it is a solution.

RichBaja - 11-30-2011 at 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Islandbuilder
.. Again, IMHO, walled compounds of wealthy gringos amidst the indigenous poor is more likely to be part of the problem than it is a solution.

And your name is Islandbuilder?

Islandbuilder - 11-30-2011 at 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichBaja

Quote:

Originally posted by Islandbuilder
.. Again, IMHO, walled compounds of wealthy gringos amidst the indigenous poor is more likely to be part of the problem than it is a solution.

And your name is Islandbuilder?

ironical, ain't it?

Woooosh - 11-30-2011 at 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo
The narco violence sucked for everyone and we hope El Chapo will restore the peace now that he has taken over Baja.

Drugs and money have always moved through Mexico- under the surface. That's how El Chapo got to be a $Billionaire. That kind of money buys a lot of whatever it is you want, anywhere on earth. El Chapo bought what he needed in Mexico and has already moved on to Australia and Europe. The lingering turf war in our area will dwindle and the money, drugs and guns will go back to moving below the surface with the new players and pawns. It will cut the violence and restore tourism everywhere in Mexico. Mexico doesn't currently have the legal system to handle the bad guys they catch now- police, prosecutors, processes, judges or jailers. A truce for now is the best they can do. Only other option is extradite them all to the USA and make Mexico pay to incarcerate them there.

cielo - 12-1-2011 at 09:58 AM

[

The US would give Mexico the cold shoulder and probably give Mexico the travel restrictions it deserves, instead of tippy-toeing around the issue.

So what's your beef with Mexico? Is there absolutely nothing redeeming about the country and it's people? When is the last time you've been to Mexico? Are there absolutely no places in the entire country that are safe? I agree that alot of mainland Mexico is a mess and there are only a few tourist cities I still visit in there. Cancun, Playa & Akumal are still very popular with tourists and safe in my opinion. I spend 2-3 months in Cabo a year and aside from the events a couple of weeks ago there has been very little crime there against Americans or tourists. The fact is, statistically, that if you (yourself) were to spend a week long vacation in any of places I've mentioned you'd have a better chance of getting struck by lightning here in the States, in whatever city you live in. Does that mean you don't go outside when it rains?

I've done alot of research and I still feel that the tourist destinations I've mentioned are safe for tourists. That being said, if I feel like that's changing I will no longer go.

I'm just not sure it's fair to paint the entire country with the same brush. I agree it's naive for Americans to travel to Acapulco, Mexico City, Guadalajara, Monterrey, TJ, Rosarito, Ensenada or anywhere close to the border because we know those places are war zones now.

I feel as safe in San Jose del Cabo as I do at home in Houston. December 14th will mark the 2 year anniversay of my wife and 5 year old daughter being robbed at gunpoint and car jacked in broad daylight in the parking lot of Memorial City Mall. There are no cities on the face of the earth that are completely safe. chit happens everywhere.

Where do you live? Where do you vacation? If it's your position that it's not safe for Americans to visit countries where there's poverty and desperation than you might as well forget about travelling to most if not all tropical destinations in the Carribean and North America in general.

Mengano - 12-1-2011 at 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo
I spend 2-3 months in Cabo a year and aside from the events a couple of weeks ago there has been very little crime there against Americans or tourists.

and you know this based upon what empirical data?

http://noticabos.org/2011/11/14/detuvieron-a-frustrado-asalt...

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g152515-i84-k4858168-Sa...

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2208461.htm

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/05/18/canadian-tourist-bouabal...

http://colectivopericu.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/y-la-violenc...

http://www.secretariadoejecutivo.gob.mx/es/SecretariadoEjecu...

DENNIS - 12-1-2011 at 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo
[

So what's your beef with Mexico? Is there absolutely nothing redeeming about the country and it's people? When is the last time you've been to Mexico? Are there absolutely no places in the entire country that are safe?

Mexico, and other countries with continuing criminal enetrprises, are judged publically by their most egregious faults. Tourist attractions will be secondary, much to the chagrin of the tourism industry.
Look at Germany, for example; who, without being intimately familiar with the country, can even mention the word without thinking of genocide?
These things become unshakable flaws in the national character.

Mexico is shapeing her national identity without outside help., and as far as I'm concerned, if there's danger in Mexico, Mexico is a dangerous place. That evaluation won't be confined to the immediate scene of the crime.

sanquintinsince73 - 12-1-2011 at 11:33 AM

I believe that Mengano should be elevated to "Special Correspondent" status on "BajaNomad" for crime in Baja. The town crier of Baja crime...I like it.

"Los tentaculos del pulpo trancenden fronteras, compa"

Woooosh - 12-1-2011 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo
I agree it's naive for Americans to travel to Acapulco, Mexico City, Guadalajara, Monterrey, TJ, Rosarito, Ensenada or anywhere close to the border because we know those places are war zones now.

The "we know" part will get you in some trouble here because many nomads are in complete denial and the NOB press and local tourism boards have propped them up.

cielo - 12-1-2011 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mengano

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo
I spend 2-3 months in Cabo a year and aside from the events a couple of weeks ago there has been very little crime there against Americans or tourists.

Thanks for reiterating my point.

The first link is a story about 2 tourist who were robbed with a broken piece of scissors? This story was actually about the good work the police did finding the criminal and ended with the folowing quote (translated) " But the local police did an excellent job and caught the offender who attempted to steal and could not escape the long arm of the law". I actually saw this story posted on your blog and could help but chuckle. I'm suprised you haven't started posting stats for how many people get horrific, deadly sunburns while they're in Cabo.

The second link is a gas scam warning....Hilarious

The third link is about Americans who are scammed by local medical facilities. Not cool, I agree but no reason to fear Cabo. Also, the Gringo Gazette, a local paper in Cabo has done at least 10 stories exposing the exact clinics in question. Really not something the media is trying to bury....nice try though. Thank God no fraud ever occurs in the States!

Ok, the third link is valid. I have seen this all over the place on the internet. As I said, I've done research and all you and I can find is 5 or 6 instances from 2006 - 2010 within 4 vacation spots in Mexico it's doubtful you're going to be murdered on your vacation to Cancun, Playa, Cozumel, Akumal or Cabo. Again, you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning. Here are some other links you should post on your blog.....because you're so concerned for traveling Americans.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/150062

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,489030,00.html

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/body-of-american-touris...

http://www.masscops.com/f38/u-s-tourist-drugged-robbed-kille...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121834313494827509.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/26/earlyshow/main6142...

http://www.time.com/time/travel/article/0,31542,1992105,00.h...

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-12/justice/teen.tourist.kill...

Need I continue? If I relied only on "emperical data" like this I'd never leave the house. Again, chit happens everywhere.

The 5th link is a story about a peaceful demostrantion held by the "Women's associtation against violence towards women and Children" (google translate) that took place amongst Mexican residents who were protesting a rise in crime within the Mexican community. Specifically, sexual assaults against women and school children. The aim of the protest was to pressure the local government to allocate more of the budget to address crime within the Mexican community. Nothing to do with Americans or tourism but a very worthy cause I'm sure. Thank God there are no rapists or sex offenders in the States.

The 6th link is a graph on all crimes in Baja Sur. 18 murders out of 636,796 citizens is not an awful number. Again, how many of the 18 were AMERICAN TOURISTS? Maybe 1?
Newsflash! Where there are human beings, there is crime, murder and the like. This includes in any and all tourist destinations around the world. Most, if not all of these stats relate to Mexican on Mexican crime similar to your 5th link.

I don't dispute that Mexico is a mess right now and there are far more places to stay away from than there are to visit.

So anyway, you never answered my three simple questions. Where do you live and when's the last time you've been to Mexico, specifically Cabo, Cancun, Cozumel, Akumal, or Playa.
And, what's your beef with Mexico?

By the way, my wife and I spent black Friday at Memorial City mall where she was carjacked almost 2 years ago because we still have to buy gifts for Christmas.

toneart - 12-1-2011 at 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo
The narco violence sucked for everyone and we hope El Chapo will restore the peace now that he has taken over Baja.

Of course Mexico is dangerous! Always has been. Since the advent of the Cartel turf wars and the extreme gruesome violence it has gotten much worse.

With proper precautions, you/we will probably never become a victim. Or...maybe you/we will. Fear will not stop me from going; never has; never will. If I get capped...oh well! It has been a good life and is still worth the risk to go to Baja Sur.

Woooosh understands how the system works. Many of you will recall that I have been saying for years that this is how the violence will subside, eventually. Reprehensible? Yes! Immoral? Yes! Looks like the Sinaloa Cartel/Guzman is taking over the country. After Calderon is out of office, it will (as Wooosh says) "move below the surface".

Life goes on....or not! :light:

wessongroup - 12-1-2011 at 04:28 PM

Good one Tone...

Woooosh - 12-1-2011 at 04:50 PM

I agree with much of what has been written in this thread. Everyone has their own comfort zone for safety and are in different living/vacationing situations. You certainly need to keep your head up at all times. The shooting near me last weekend was at 3:30pm a hundred feet from parked USA cars and some American tourists and surfers enjoying the beach. How many of them were mentally ready for the gunshots and the murderers running past them? The locals know to dive over the seawall for cover. We heard the shots, took cover, saw the assassins running by and just noted the amount of time if took for the various response teams to arrive and watched what they did from a safe position. I was in my comfort zone as a resident, but I certainly wouldn't have been if I was a day tourist!

It has been a hassle the past five years or so. I am responsible for the safety of everyone in my home and I set some firm safety rules and we practice security drills at home and when driving. Ideal? Nope, but we don't have kids and can handle it. My Mexican family is 100% behind our pro-active approach. My American family thinks I'm nuts but for me it is just a part of this phase of my life. "You pays your money and you takes your chances. " I do think the security situation will get better rather soon but the world economy will be a drag on Rosarito tourism and real estate for a long time to come. It now has to compete with what are now dirt-cheap USA retirement locations...

It is very sad to drive through downtown Rosarito and see all the empty store windows with "se renta" signs. These were the small businesses that served the local Rosaritenses. Some closed because of Walmart- but others just moved to the newer shopping centers where the rents, I presume- are lower. It makes the economic blight of downtown Rosarito appear worse than it is. They should try to re-locate the " touristy stall-mall booths" into these empty storefronts and create some visible retail activity on the main drag. Business begets business. jmo.

[Edited on 12-1-2011 by Woooosh]

Bajahowodd - 12-1-2011 at 05:23 PM

"It's open season on Gringos and it is not even being reported. Instead, all you hear is whining from Prince Howard about negativity. Does anybody here think Bajahowodd cares about your well being? Does anybody here think Howard wants to make sure travelers get the information they need to make an informed decision? Howard does not want anybody here thinking for themselves, his job is to make sure no bad news gets discussed. He also thinks the only reason why Communism is not the predominant economic system in the world is that nobody has found the right leaders to make it work."

Inasmuch as I have no dog in this fight; inasmuch as I do not profit from a single visitor to Baja; inasmuch that unfortunately due to financial setbacks my dream of living in Baja has been put on hold,....I do spend the equivalent of approximately three months per year in Baja....

The silly comments about Communism appear to me to be nothing more than some mouth-breathing right wing nut who absolutely fails to see how the majority of the world's populace as it continues to grow, faces ever shrinking possibilities.

There has never been any large scale experiment in Communism. There have been a few insular and isolated attempts.

Folks need to understand that whatever that was under the Soviets, or Mao, was nothing more than a military dictatorship that they chose to claim itself as being Communism. Communism, as it was first proposed, was very democratic.

I have no idea if it can work on a large scale. But I take exception to anyone who seeks to throw Communism as an epithet, when it really doesn't apply.

I'm reminded of a quote I recently read from a "tea party" follower that said, "I'm perfectly willing to give up my liberties, so I can have freedom".

marooons prevail.

Since this marooonic program won't seemingly allow the word let's go with idiots.

[Edited on 12-2-2011 by Bajahowodd]

[Edited on 12-2-2011 by Bajahowodd]

BajaRat - 12-2-2011 at 10:32 AM

Desperation can bring out the worst in some. The best part of waking up is waking up. I could never imagine quitting the things I love because they were dangerous. Id have to quit the fire service, never go in the ocean, stay out of the sun, park the car,never step in to help someone in need, give up shellfish,skiing, surfing, flying, motorcycles, diving. Life without risk is not living. Ideally we take calculated risks, prepare the best we can for our endeavors. Not everyone's gonna make it. Depending where you live and what you do is going to require specific preparation. The less you do can limit your chance of success and potentially lead to disaster. Its a shame to have to take into consideration what another human being is capable of doing to you, but that is exactly what you must. Get creative, get educated and always be prepared to give it everything you've got.

Peace is internal. Don't rely on others to provide it for you.....

[Edited on 12-2-2011 by BajaRat]

bajabass - 12-2-2011 at 11:36 AM

Well stated Senor Ratone. Life is a calculated risk. Chose, and do it.

Yes!

toneart - 12-2-2011 at 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRat
Desperation can bring out the worst in some. The best part of waking up is waking up. I could never imagine quitting the things I love because they were dangerous. Id have to quit the fire service, never go in the ocean, stay out of the sun, park the car,never step in to help someone in need, give up shellfish,skiing, surfing, flying, motorcycles, diving. Life without risk is not living. Ideally we take calculated risks, prepare the best we can for our endeavors. Not everyone's gonna make it. Depending where you live and what you do is going to require specific preparation. The less you do can limit your chance of success and potentially lead to disaster. Its a shame to have to take into consideration what another human being is capable of doing to you, but that is exactly what you must. Get creative, get educated and always be prepared to give it everything you've got.

Peace is internal. Don't rely on others to provide it for you.....

[Edited on 12-2-2011 by BajaRat]

DENNIS - 12-2-2011 at 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Well stated Senor Ratone. Life is a calculated risk. Chose, and do it.

Are you serious?? It's only a calculated risk when nothing happens to you.
When sht does happen, who here will say, "Ohhh well...we took our chances knowing this could happen. Such is life."

No one, I'm guessing.

Me!

toneart - 12-2-2011 at 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Well stated Senor Ratone. Life is a calculated risk. Chose, and do it.

"With proper precautions, you/we will probably never become a victim. Or...maybe you/we will. Fear will not stop me from going; never has; never will. If I get capped...oh well! It has been a good life and is still worth the risk to go to Baja Sur." :cool:

bajabass - 12-2-2011 at 02:23 PM

I've made the mistakes, paid the prices, though reaped many more benifits, by doing what I felt was the right thing for me. Moving my life to Baja included. Come what may, we all have the choices to make. Again, chose, and do it.

BajaRat - 12-2-2011 at 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Well stated Senor Ratone. Life is a calculated risk. Chose, and do it.

Yes I'm serious Dennis. Come on my friend, you did that if you took a prescription this morning. Will I make it from El Rosario to Guerrero Negro on this tank of gas?I prefer not to be that poor compadre on the side of the road. Si or No............. :?:

BajaRat - 12-2-2011 at 06:52 PM

P.S. Happy travels, stay thirsty my friends,
and always get more ICE! :cool:

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by BajaRat]

Bajafun777 - 12-2-2011 at 07:52 PM

OK, I know it has been said a thousand times or more but when you use good common sense when traveling in Mexico or any foreign country your odds of staying safe are good. We never drive at night anymore but we do start our trips at 6:30am driving until about 4:30pm, only if we need a long day of travel. WE make numerous stops on the way for "walking it off travel time" for our backs and legs along with checking out roadside fruit stands. We use the toll road systems as much as possible, in other words if it is there we USE IT since the costs are cheap for good travel.
WE have traveled by truck, jeep from T.J. down to Cabo, from Nogales all the way down to Puerto Vallarte. Bus from Guadalajara to Puerto Vallarte after flying into Mexico City then catching a plane to Guadalajara, and taking plane to Cancun then renting a car and taking tour buses to all the things we wanted to see around that area. Have even taken the Baja Ferries from La Paz over to Topolobampo then drove over to Los Mochis for several days before driving back up to Nogales then home to Brawley, California.
We have traveled a lot in Mexico and yes we will travel even more in the years to come. Dangerous things can happen anywhere, however with common sense tactics hopefully you will have less chance of it happening to you no matter where you travel.
I refuse to be a prisoner of my mind worrying about things that could, should or will happen. We all know when bad thing happen they do not happen to you when you are really ready for it. Bad things happen in many different Countries including the "Good Old USA," so may God travel with you. Just have the "Need & Urge For More Mexico Time!" Take Care & Travel Safe---"No Hurry, No Worry, Just FUN" bajafun777

Personal Safety NOB

MrBillM - 12-2-2011 at 10:40 PM

Is best not expected of ANYONE else.

In our own cases it is entrusted to good judgement and the combined security of Beretta, Browning, Colt, Marlin, Mossberg, Rossi, Ruger, Taurus, Winchester and some like lesser names.

They have never disappointed.

Unlike Law-Enforcement.

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by MrBillM]

Santiago - 12-3-2011 at 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Is best not expected of ANYONE else.

In our own cases it is entrusted to good judgement and the combined security of Rossi......and some like lesser names.

They have never disappointed.

Unlike Law-Enforcement.

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by MrBillM]

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OK, I give up - how do you use one of the world's finest clarinets for personal protection??

!!

Bajahowodd - 12-3-2011 at 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
OK, I give up - how do you use one of the world's finest clarinets for personal protection??

He toots his own horn till the assailants die of boredom.

Sorry Bill, that was just sitting there waiting for a taker. :coolup:

Saying you are sorry to bill is going to bite you on your culo. :lol:

BajaRat - 12-3-2011 at 07:18 PM

He takes the pitch and hits it out of the park :bounce: