BajaNomad - Sardine Massacre in Bay of Mulege

Sardine Massacre in Bay of Mulege

Pompano - 12-17-2011 at 08:09 AM

Que Lastima!

Well, it was too good to last. Last night there were over 5-6 large commercial seiners raping the Sea of Cortez in front of Mulege. (Yeah, raping...I'm a little peeed off, so excuse my language)

The huge schools of sardinas, like the one shown above, in the waters off Mulege lately drew these money-minded boats...and they made many lifts of many tons of sardines ...all night long.

Hold capacities are from 20 to 115 tons and total capacities are from 60 to 140 tons or more. Side boards are carried to make deep deck-loads possible and are frequently used by the smaller boats but seldom by the larger ones. To be conservative - say 100 tons X 5 = 500 tons of sardines destroyed and gone in one night!

The amount of fish wasted will be unbelievable. The deciimation of food for the game fish is a crime. All to be ground up as 'fish meal pellets'...christ!

"Sardines" are named after the Mediterranean island of Sardinia, around which they were once abundant. I think they should be renamed "Comida de puerco - Pig Pellets" because of this irresponsible, greedy, and uncontrolled action.

These 4-5 sardines will be the 'school' that is left from this destruction...and then they too will be gone..forever. The Sea of Cortez might as well have a wake for it's inhabitants. Way to go, Mexico...really smart way to fatten up pigs, cattle and chickens.

Just when the fishing was getting good, again. Carumba!! Might as well sell the ^%@# boat...or become a land-lubber when in Baja. Panama's fishing will be a welcome relief.

(edit to correct number of boats that was reported to me...my bad, but I like to be factual.)

[Edited on 12-17-2011 by Pompano]

Pompano - 12-17-2011 at 08:37 AM

This reminds me of 1987 or '88, will have to check the dates on my photos...when 35 Japanese purse seiners got permission to net yellowfin tuna between San Marcos and Tortuga...they wiped out the entire years run. Made a few fishermen so mad, we thought a couple purse seiners might get sunk...by accident of course. I have videos of the nets being so clogged with 20-40 lb tuna the winches could not handle the weight. Great news, eh?

[Edited on 12-17-2011 by Pompano]

Russ - 12-17-2011 at 08:42 AM

I share your your frustration and feeling of helplessness. Bahia Concepcion my a$$! Now mostly Bahia Mueretos. You'd imagine with with such a beautiful name the Government would go to extreme measures to preserve and enhance the fish stocks there. NOT ! :fire:

Pompano - 12-17-2011 at 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ
I share your your frustration and feeling of helplessness. Bahia Concepcion my a$$! Now mostly Bahia Mueretos. You'd imagine with with such a beautiful name the Government would go to extreme measures to preserve and enhance the fish stocks there. NOT ! :fire:

Hell yes, Russ. I believe the Bay was declared a maritime park sometime after WWII..?? (like the one near Loreto..HAH!)

To press home a point...when one went diving or snorkling anywhere in the Bahia de Concepcion...when your ears were underwater...it was a symphony of crackling, grunts, and other sounds of shellfish, fish, and whatever.

Now it's total silence....like a graveyard. Damn rapists.

What a waste of time it was for us who cared enough to make 3 separate trips to complain to the government...once to Ensenada and twice to La Paz. They glad-handed us...saw us out the door....and forgot about us.

Cypress - 12-17-2011 at 08:57 AM

Pompano, Between the local gill-netters and the big purse-seiners, there's not much hope for the fisheries to recover. That purse boat is riding very low in the water, must be filled to capacity.

Number one reason why my fishing is now in US waters. The fisheries are managed. Most species are holding their own and some are actually on the increase. Dealing with the rules and regs can be a pain, but it's worth it.

captkw - 12-17-2011 at 09:00 AM

I have pic ,my girlfreind took from behind me.. santapaic beach that had one truck on it,,we sat in the road and drank a six back before a car came by and drove around us,,,then,, the shrimper's would come into the bay a set the hook for the night and would trade HUGE shrimp for my play boy mags or even a baseball hat that had anything gringo on it then (1977) the bay still had life,,sadly no more and now ya gotta pay to camp,,sh-t !! but ya know,,it beat's the hell outta L.a. ,,S.F. sacamento, or any else in,the lower 48 for a winter hangout,,I think the local boy's have finally relized you cant keep rapeing the ocean,,cus now they/we cant catch sh-t..will it come back,,I cant say,,but I shure the F--k hope so..K&T

[Edited on 12-17-2011 by captkw]

Pompano - 12-17-2011 at 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Pompano, Between the local gill-netters and the big purse-seiners, there's not much hope for the fisheries to recover. That purse boat is riding very low in the water, must be filled to capacity.

You have it right, my friend. I fished herring, reds, and dog salmon for 3 years in and out of Bristol Bay, Alaska...obeying the rules and my conscious...made lots of honestly-gained money. But that fishery was well-managed and kept healthy by an enforced authority. You kept your vhf radio on constantly ..or you missed Game&Fish and/or Coast Guard warning of a shut-down or severe weather. If you were so stupid as to continue fishing in the event of shut-down, the very least you would lose was your boat and catch.

A nation built on laws cannot exist with enforcement of those laws..

Russ - 12-17-2011 at 09:14 AM

Last night I saw 3 shrimpers & 2 seiners working but this morning with the binos I counted 4 shrimpers and 7 seiners. Now only 3 seiners anchored this side of Mulege the rest have either headed North or went into the Bay to anchor up.
Yesterday a local vendor borrowed a boat and went out to one of the shrimpers to get some shrimp & halibut and reported that the shrimper only got 60 kilos during the nights work. Not enough to break even and makes the point that our shrimp stock are gone.

captkw - 12-17-2011 at 09:28 AM

Hola,,, bob and susan,,ummm I feel stupid to ask,,but where is mulege bay??? I used to run my livingston out of punta chivato to tortugo and then run down to playa escondeto for dinner with friend's..and never had a chart..running in a small fiberglass caterman,,, wind or direction is NO proplem..is that considerd out infront of the light house (el farro)?? I think I might need a noaa chart here,, LOL....

Pompano - 12-17-2011 at 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw
Hola,,, bob and susan,,ummm I feel stupid to ask,,but where is mulege bay??? I used to run my livingston out of punta chivato to tortugo and then run down to playa escondeto for dinner with friend's..and never had a chart..running in a small fiberglass caterman,,, wind or direction is NO proplem..is that considerd out infront of the light house (el farro)?? I think I might need a noaa chart here,, LOL....

captkw....perhaps I can help you. 'Bay of Mulege' is defined on some charts as that area of ocean from offshore Pta. Chivato to Pt. Conception.

I don't know if these charts are 'official' or not...but what is in Baja??

Ken Bondy - 12-17-2011 at 09:54 AM

That is so depressing.

BajaGringo - 12-17-2011 at 09:56 AM

So sorry Roger...

KaceyJ - 12-17-2011 at 10:05 AM

"A nation built on laws cannot exist with enforcement of those laws.. "

Unfortunately , Mexico is not a nation of laws , it's dog eat dog. Law in mexico is enforced when it suits them.

What a shame to see this happening again. The only thing I can think of is to get it documented and then turn up negative environmental media publicity about the matter.

I don't think people in general realize that conception bay is a large part of the sea of cortez which is one of the major fish nurseries of the world.

Being raped to fill the bolsas of the tuna pen owners.

pompano

captkw - 12-17-2011 at 10:14 AM

OH..ok, I never heard that before...I will craw back to my cave and keep pedeling my alternator for power....some times at night I wish I had a 50 cal. and do some target pratice out on the water :fire:

chumlee57 - 12-17-2011 at 10:16 AM

This activity is brutal. litterally putting the kabash on potentially good fishing befor it can start. Common sense from the food chain concept. Not sure of other areas up & down the cortez, but Chivato / Mulege area, serious pressure. Very much a shame.

Sweetwater - 12-17-2011 at 10:23 AM

It's too bad there is no way to Monkey Wrench an activity like those commercial boats. If there is no enforcement/regulations to prevent over harvests, the resources will surely suffer. And it's always the locals who depend on those resources who pay the price without any of the benefit......

DianaT - 12-17-2011 at 10:32 AM

Sad, very sad. :no:

bacquito - 12-17-2011 at 10:55 AM

Greed!

Santiago - 12-17-2011 at 11:19 AM

In discussing this last night with some of my baja buddies one of the, uh, how do I say this....'less stable' guys quipped; "Why not just trade with the Zetas? Quiet, secure and unfettered routes north in exchange for enforcing current regs. I mean, the drugs are coming anyway, why not trade that for a vibrant fishery?"

The rest of us spit-took (or is it 'spit-taked?) our single malt but then it got kinda quiet as we realized that this just might work.

wessongroup - 12-17-2011 at 11:58 AM

Maybe they can introduce an Asian Carp ... which does well in sea water...

Russ - 12-17-2011 at 12:51 PM

4 trawlers in sight now. a single smaller one anchored inside and 3 larger ones anchored about 5 miles out.

scouter - 12-17-2011 at 01:32 PM

This is so sad , unfortunately the mex gov controls ocean gardens and most all the fishery in there country , this crap has been going on for years , some one needs to reach out to sea shepherds maybe they could do something, when I had my boat in Loreto years ago there was a guy Mike McGettigan / sea watch ( good guy) with a group of volunteers working to save the mantas he was successful in slowing this down but his funding was limited and so he slowed down , this really disappoints me to no end... I don't understand why they don't work the pacific side I helped a friend take his boat to Cabo last month and the bait in the water from Cedro's south was abundant and there was no signs of any commercial fishing, we saw lots of shrimpers but they were mostly idle or traveling we tracked them at night and they never dragged any of the normal fishing spots.
real bummer when the fish and sea life is gone so will be the rest of there economy along the water front

Spearo - 12-17-2011 at 01:57 PM

What a shame. Probably just being ground into fish meal.

You won't have big fish without little fish.

Growing up in Florida, the inshore mullet netting used to decimate the fishing in the Everglades. They finally banned the practice and the size and number of tarpon, redfish and snook shot up immediately. The ocean can and will heal itself if we would get our boot off its neck.

Cypress - 12-17-2011 at 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spearo
What a shame. Probably just being ground into fish meal.

You won't have big fish without little fish.

Growing up in Florida, the inshore mullet netting used to decimate the fishing in the Everglades. They finally banned the practice and the size and number of tarpon, redfish and snook shot up immediately. The ocean can and will heal itself if we would get our boot off its neck.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-17-2011 at 04:13 PM

Pomp:
I know that you know that this has been going on for many years.

The Fishing will be real good next year!!

Vince - 12-17-2011 at 04:40 PM

Over harvesting of sardines is just another example of how the Mexican Federal Govt. has lost control of it's resources. Conception Bay is the result. Remember when it used to be pristine with pompano, hatchet clams and whales and rooster fish? Mostly gone now. With a little enforcement these species would have endured. The modern day Mexican kids never experienced that abundance.

vivaloha - 12-19-2011 at 06:14 AM

it stinks when these greedy bastards rape nature for profit...
the shrimpers really destroy the ocean too...
these fish companies have no shame
sad state of affairs...

Pompano - 12-19-2011 at 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
Maybe they can introduce an Asian Carp ... which does well in sea water...

Hola wessongroup, I know you well enough from your past posts to realize that you're a good person and mean well for Baja and the environment. But introducing an invasive species like the Asian Carp could only aggravate our current fishery decline.

All four of the Asian carps that are established in the United States spread quickly after introduction, became very abundant, and hurt native fishes either by damaging habitats or by consuming vast amounts of food. Common and grass carps destroy habitat and reduce water quality for native fishes by uprooting or consuming aquatic vegetation.

Bighead and silver carps are large filter-feeders that compete with larval fishes, paddlefish, bigmouth buffalo, and freshwater mollusks (clams). In addition, boaters have been injured by silver carp because they commonly jump out of the water and into or over boats in response to outboard motors. Black carp, which consume almost exclusively mussels and snails, may further threaten the State's already imperiled native freshwater mussels should they become established.

A very good intention,wessongroup, just the wrong fish.

Now...if only walleyes could survive in saltwater, eh?

mtgoat666 - 12-19-2011 at 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ
4 trawlers in sight now. a single smaller one anchored inside and 3 larger ones anchored about 5 miles out.

those are not trawlers. they are seiners. same boat can do both types of fishing, just need to switch equipment, but the boats in your picture are set up for seining

re sardines, they are a migratory boom and bust fish that is not particularly endangered in SOC or Pacific. i don't see these particular instance as an overfishing, when looked at on large scale, even though the locals may have narrower local view and see this as doom. do some reading on the fish, the fish will recover, and the predators that follow sardines will move onto where the sardines are more numerous.

i note a tendency for nomads to jump on all commercial seines and trawls as indication of the end of the world.

p.s. skeet's logic is nonsense.

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by mtgoat666]

mtgoat666 - 12-19-2011 at 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sweetwater
It's too bad there is no way to Monkey Wrench an activity like those commercial boats. If there is no enforcement/regulations to prevent over harvests, the resources will surely suffer. And it's always the locals who depend on those resources who pay the price without any of the benefit......

who says there is no enforcement?

you have no idea if there is enforcement, but seem quick to recommend sabotage of fishermen's equipment.

Pompano - 12-19-2011 at 07:22 AM

Actually, there are two distinctive types of seiners...the ones on Russ's photos are 'purse' seiners as opposed to 'Danish' seiners. Purse seiners have further categories...a lot depends on what tightening mechanism is used..a horizontal drum or a more vertical block and tackle-type winch. The power block is the more effective and easier to handle...

Properly used to accomplish it's devastating goal...a purse seiner with expert set-boat handlers will capture an entire school of sardines in one set...of course they still have to separate the by-catch, like certain Nomads.

tick-tock...tick-tock

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by Pompano]

pompano

captkw - 12-19-2011 at 08:08 AM

good morning,do you know if they use turtle exculder's or anything of the sort......speaking of turtle's, just a few year's ago before they built the crap (my deff.) from san jose to cabo we would camp on the beach's and around xmas Ive had olive's (big) come up on the beach and lay eggs right near my camp..THat was cool and in the morn they would leave 3or so pile's of sand to keep the seagul's confused.. nat geo out side my tent.. and dinner was only a coulpe a cast's away and that was on a slow day!! Keith & lil tasha :cool:

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by captkw]

wessongroup - 12-19-2011 at 08:10 AM

Just throwing in a one liner, about how not to choose a particular species ... Pomp ... that asian crap thingy is NO joke, as you bring out ... as well as the fishing pressure being applied to the Sea of Cortez... but, I certainly don't have to tell you and all the others that have and do fish in the Sea of Cortez .... in some cases over half a century ...

Agree that effective game management is something which is necessary along with a citizenry population who supports it ... it has been proven to work .. not perfect in all cases but, it does work ..

Would also say I find it very encouraging that most all we hear from on this topic at BN's have such strong appreciation and respect for the outdoors and the wildlife... be it Baja or Alaska ... That can only help ..... plus ya got a few here who pick up stray dogs and cats .. guess they are Baja wildlife too ... Nice folks here

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by wessongroup]

Russ - 12-19-2011 at 09:05 AM

I do understand about fish stocks and the cycles they go through. However I believe if the stock of one fish become to low to maintain itself the recovery is a maybe. Look how long the sardines took to recover in Calif. and the blue fin tuna in most of the oceans are a big question mark. Yes some of us are in panic mode with what we see as a depleted resource. While others have a different view of things. But, I believe that all will agree (I hope) there is a need to conserve and enhance our oceans resources. I like the idea of selectively closing all fishing in small areas while that area recovers to support a manageable fishing industry and rotating areas as farmers have learned to do with crops. Mexico does have laws and programs on the books but corruption and lack of enforcement is still a major hurtle to be over come. IMHO

watizname - 12-19-2011 at 12:13 PM

Good management is the answer. Halibut and White Seabass stocks along the So. Cal. coast have increased dramatically in the last few years, since the implimentation of netting regulations, size and bag limits. For years, a legal 22 inch halibut was a rarity, and white seabass were almost a lost legend, whispered about around the docks, and tackle shops. Now around the islands you can get nice 15/20 lb halibut, and some of the white seabass bites are epic. Mexico needs enforcement of it's regs. This is a real bummer. Not only will the modern day Mexican kids not see the past abundance, neither will our kids and grandkids. :fire:

Sweetwater - 12-19-2011 at 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

who says there is no enforcement?

you have no idea if there is enforcement, but seem quick to recommend sabotage of fishermen's equipment.

Text

Your ignorance is showing.....No where do I suggest sabotage....

And there has been no evidence of enforcement demonstrated either....

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by Sweetwater]

LancairDriver - 12-19-2011 at 04:16 PM

Watch a new series called "Big Shrimpin" on the Gulf of Mexico on the History channel if you would like a first hand view of the raping of the oceans that goes on every day worldwide. Every drag they pull up and discard more fish than shrimp to the tune of thousands of pounds per boat. I'm surprised the boats allow the filming of this, and of course no mention of the by catch is ever made. I personally know fishermen on draggers here in Oregon who routinely pull up a net full of the wrong kind of fish they are after and dump as much as 8000 lbs. in one pull.

Islandbuilder - 12-19-2011 at 04:52 PM

Draggers, bottom draggers particularly, have a huge impact on the entire marine environment. Dragging in the Bering Sea has destroyed crab stocks, and plowed the bottom into a benthic version of a WWI battle field.

Do any of you know how licenses are managed in MX? Is it limited entry, or wide open? Are there IFQ's or is it wide open?

Some of you lament the loss of the old ways, but what I'm reading about and seeing is that there is a ton more environmental oversight now then there was 20 or 30 years ago.

When the Japanese fished the SOC to a standstill in the 1980's, I think that they reduced stocks almost to the limit of their ability to recover. If (big if) those stocks have now recovered (reports of greatly improved sport fishing seem to make that at least a possibility) perhaps a limited and controlled commercial fishery can be sustained.

BTW, the term "Money Wrench" means sabotage, perhaps you didn't know that Sweetwater?

Not too comfortable with the branding of these commercial guys as greedy, they're just doing their job and supporting their families the best they know how. They may be taking more than they should, or they may be well within the terms of their permits (if they have any), and no one ashore would be able to tell. Catching your sport limit, or a bit more, every day, for the entire season, can also be termed "greedy", it's a bit too subjective to have any merit, IMHO.

Sweetwater - 12-19-2011 at 05:52 PM

I know very well what Monkey Wrench means..........now read the rest of my statement....maybe read it several times out loud.......while looking in the mirror....so that you understand what was actually said vs the accusation you propagate......

Islandbuilder - 12-19-2011 at 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sweetwater
I know very well what Monkey Wrench means..........now read the rest of my statement....maybe read it several times out loud.......while looking in the mirror....so that you understand what was actually said vs the accusation you propagate......

Cool.

A measuring contest! Since I'm well past 14 I don't think I need to play

It might be a good idea, since more than one of us is mis-understanding your intent, that you re-state your point using different words.

All I can come up with is that you're differentiating Monkey Wrenching fishing activities, and the boats themselves? That is too subtle a difference to justify your defensiveness, again, IMHO.

Sweetwater - 12-19-2011 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Islandbuilder

Quote:

Cool.

A measuring contest! Since I'm well past 14 I don't think I need to play

It's too bad that you're not still the innocent 14 yo that I'm sure you were....and I've learned not to argue with folks like you with any words......because your mind is closed and you've passed judgement within yourself......and I'm sure it wasn't you who stopped to make sure my friend and I were OK in the middle of nowhere with a flat tire.....I'd guess you'd just drive by and wave......... :tumble:

mulegemichael - 12-19-2011 at 07:26 PM

hey dennis!.....isn't it cool that some other guys have picked up the baton???

Islandbuilder - 12-19-2011 at 07:27 PM

Sweetwater, amigo. I don't mean to argue, and I doubt I've ever passed someone in need and not stopped to help, just like I assume that you do as well.

I just didn't understand your statement as I guess you intended it, and asked for clarification. I may be too dense to get it, or your words may not be as clear as you think they are, but, in the interest of advancing the conversation I needed to better understand what you were trying to say.

That's all....no indictment, no personal slams, no assumptions about your latent or blatant goodness, just saying I don't see how "Monkey Wrenching" means anything other than physical sabotage.

Either clarify it, or don't, but don't get so worked up over someone not understanding.

I've participated enough in this hijack, sorry, so I'll re-take my seat on the sidelines.

Islandbuilder - 12-19-2011 at 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mulegemichael
hey dennis!.....isn't it cool that some other guys have picked up the baton???

I always try and take the heavy end, just to be a good helper! :saint:

mulegemichael - 12-19-2011 at 07:34 PM

on this forum, usually both ends of the baton are heavy....good luck.

Islandbuilder - 12-19-2011 at 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mulegemichael
on this forum, usually both ends of the baton are heavy....good luck.

Heavy, OK.

Sticky, not OK.

mtgoat666 - 12-20-2011 at 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Islandbuilder

Quote:

Cool.

A measuring contest! Since I'm well past 14 I don't think I need to play

not much difference between wanting to see sabotage and recommending sabotage and committing sabotage.

mtgoat666 - 12-20-2011 at 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sweetwater
No where do I suggest sabotage....

Quote:

Originally posted by Sweetwater
It's too bad there is no way to Monkey Wrench an activity like those commercial boats.

[Edited on 12-20-2011 by mtgoat666]

Russ - 12-20-2011 at 07:52 AM

"Monkey Wrench"
I'm not saying I'd condone it but when the fisheries, commercial, government and sports interest, are not getting results and yet all agree something needs to be done you'll see the hard core zealots from all sides taking action that may not be lawful.
Sometimes that's what gets the ball rolling. Good or bad?

[Edited on 12-20-2011 by Russ]

MitchMan - 12-26-2011 at 12:07 PM

Greed is wanting more than you need, more than you deserve, and wanting and pursuing the acqusition of something that really doesn't belong to you.... and then there is also the profit motive.

The other thing about greed is that it is often a significant part of human nature and it is everwhere. So, what to do?

Regulate appropriately and enforce those regulations rigorously and persistently. If that isn't done, then those who are greedy, clever and who have the means will prevail. It is really that simple.

If Mexico doesn't have the will to enforce its regulations, then all will eventually be lost.

[Edited on 12-26-2011 by MitchMan]

Cypress - 12-26-2011 at 12:19 PM

Right now I'm fishing in the marsh country of LA/MS, catching plenty of fish. Red fish, speckled trout, with a few fresh water catfish on the trot line, 15 lbs. and 5 lbs. last night. Didn't re-bait it, got more fish than a family can eat already. Bragging? You bet! The fish are there because of regulations and enforcement. Too bad the powers that be in Baja lack the will/guts to save the fisheries in the Sea of Cortez.

Bob and Susan - 12-26-2011 at 12:44 PM

on the DAY this thread started tis fisherman did't have ANY trouble filling the boat

the fish are out there you just need to go fishing

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