BajaNomad - Young U.S. Citizens in Mexico Brave Risks for American Schools

Young U.S. Citizens in Mexico Brave Risks for American Schools

Gypsy Jan - 1-21-2012 at 03:23 PM

From the New York Times: http://tinyurl.com/73hxpo8

bajaguy - 1-21-2012 at 03:28 PM

Can't wait for the responses on this.......I'm getting the popcorn and Pacifico ready.

Iflyfish - 1-21-2012 at 03:32 PM

God bless them and their motivation to succeed. Mexico needs a generation of these people who are bilingual and bicultural.

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 1-21-2012 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
God bless them and their motivation to succeed. Mexico needs a generation of these people who are bilingual and bicultural.

Iflyfish

Maybe God should bless the taxpayers as well who support these educations. Did anyone ever say, "Thank You," for that?

Ateo - 1-21-2012 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Can't wait for the responses on this.......I'm getting the popcorn and Pacifico ready.

hilarious. :yes:

Now what????

bajaguy - 1-21-2012 at 04:21 PM

While I don't support the illegal activities of the parents, I do applaud the efforts of these kids to get a decent education....

However, I wonder what the backlash from this article will be from cash strapped school districts and overburdened taxpayers.

Will be interesting to sit in at the next Chula Vista School District board meeting...........

DianaT - 1-21-2012 at 04:44 PM

Been going on for a very long time----in Calexico, we had students from the other side of the border who paid to attend the public schools, those who "lived" with a relative on this side, those who were citizens but lived in Mexicali, some of the parents living on the other side had businesses on this side and paid taxes, most of the parents shopped a lot on this side----on and on.

At times the district would post someone at the border with a camera---that didn't last long.

As a teacher how many of the students who I knew were breaking the rules did I report, even when asked? ZERO

Yes, it will hit the The Sweetwater Union Highschool District Board Meeting and will be a big stink and then go away. Right now for that school board this is probably the least of their problems, or at least for some of the board menbers :lol:

[Edited on 1-21-2012 by DianaT]

paranewbi - 1-21-2012 at 04:48 PM

The premise of our educational system has to be that to do otherwise than educate our citizen children, no matter where they live, would create a larger burden and be much less beneficial to the country, down the line. These do not appear to be children deemed as illegal immigrants, but potential future citizens that live for differing reasons, close enough to invest the effort and participate in our countries education system.

Let me put this another way. I spend my Saturdays in visitation at Donovan State prison. One of the inmates I have come to form a relationship with, was released after 16 years of incarceration, this last year. While at his home two weeks ago, repairing a faulty door, I used my air compressor and finish nail gun. In wrapping up my tools while conversing with this ‘ex-con’, he marveled at my compressor and exclaimed, “That’s amazing, I’ve never seen on of those before”. I knew this was probably true because 16 years ago he was a young 20-year-old idiot who crossed the wrong line of law.

What I also realized, was that in 16 years of incarceration in a system that simply warehoused men with no potential growth opportunities, that system had turned out a 36-year-old idiot, with no beneficial attributes to society.

What will we do with Mexican educated citizens when they decide to exercise their right to live in this country, years from now? Oh, yea, clean our floors.

bajaguy - 1-21-2012 at 04:55 PM

Diane........

It's great that you were a teacher, and I appreciate that. My daughter is an elementary teacher........Teachers do great work.

But why should we subsidize "illegal" students?????

My kids are grown and gone, why do I still have to pay school taxes????

I hope the "stink" in the Chula Vista School District and other districts does not go away........be legal, save money, lower taxes.....what's wrong with that????

DENNIS - 1-21-2012 at 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Will be interesting to sit in at the next Chula Vista School District board meeting...........

This isn't anything new, Terry. It's been going on forever and everybody knows about it. I mean, it's hard to miss if you're around the border early in the morning or when school lets out. There are kids with school books crossing in droves.

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2012 at 05:02 PM

I have my daughter in the best school (secundaria: equivalent to Junior High School) in Ensenada. The English and Math programs are wonderful, and I can't say enough about private Mexican education....

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
From the New York Times: http://tinyurl.com/73hxpo8

Woooosh - 1-21-2012 at 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Will be interesting to sit in at the next Chula Vista School District board meeting...........

in droves and strapped with drugs.

American citizens living in TJ??

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2012 at 05:08 PM

I had a choice to go to medical school in TJ or Ensenada...I have spent an untold amount of money on gas and a considerable amount of time in the past six years driving the extra hour to Ensenada...Ensenada's rents are cheaper and no one in their right mind would raise a child in Tijuana...I drove the extra hour as well to work on the other side of the border to have my daughter raised in Ensenada. The author also states that American citizens are living in TJ?? I beg to differ...probably deported American citizens....no one would live in TJ by choice..JMHO....

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
From the New York Times: http://tinyurl.com/73hxpo8

DianaT - 1-21-2012 at 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Diane........

It's great that you were a teacher, and I appreciate that. My daughter is an elementary teacher........Teachers do great work.

But why should we subsidize "illegal" students?????

My kids are grown and gone, why do I still have to pay school taxes????

I hope the "stink" in the Chula Vista School District and other districts does not go away........be legal, save money, lower taxes.....what's wrong with that????

I guess I was just more concerned with working with my high school students than worrying about if they were legal or not. I guess I just never considered any of them "illegal"---they were just students.

In the argument over the tax issue, I often think that one thing is overlooked----the amount of US taxes the people from south of the border pay when they shop in the US. Also, many may rents for the right to use a US address. OK, that address may be a garage room, but the rent helps pay the property tax.

Just my opinion. When I taught in Honduras we used to joke about working illegally. The school could not afford to pay for us to be legal workers. But I still just felt like a teacher and not like an "illegal" person.

I sincerely doubt that any of this will change.

bajamigo - 1-21-2012 at 05:20 PM

During a recent fairly lengthy stay at UCSD Sulpizio, I spent a lot of time chatting with the well-paid nurses (none of whom, to the best of my knowledge, were ever deported). It was surprising how many of those norteños live in TJ by choice, not out of any perceived necessity. And a good friend in Rosarito, also American, commutes to his job at the Department of the Navy in Coronado; again, his choice.

DENNIS - 1-21-2012 at 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
I guess I just never considered any of them "illegal"---they were just students.

Ohhh...c'mon, Diane. That's like saying, "I never considered these things "deadly"----they're just bullets."

.

[Edited on 1-22-2012 by DENNIS]

These are the rules..

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2012 at 05:29 PM

When I first considered putting my daughter into a school across the border in Chula Vista many years ago, I spoke to the school Board in Chula Vista who told me that no matter what, if you didn't live in the states your child had to pay a few thousand dollars a year to go to school in the US if you lived in Mexico, even though I was paying taxes and working in the US...doesn't matter what taxes Mexicans pay when they come to the US and buy things...think about the 30% taxes that items are marked up in Mexico that Americans buy in Mexico. And I never heard of anyone renting a US address...its usually a long lost cousin 8 times removed doing a family favor.

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

living in Mexico...

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2012 at 05:31 PM

I am talking about living in TJ per se, not Rosarito, not even Otay Mesa Tijuana side...

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
During a recent fairly lengthy stay at UCSD Sulpizio, I spent a lot of time chatting with the well-paid nurses (none of whom, to the best of my knowledge, were ever deported). It was surprising how many of those norteños live in TJ by choice, not out of any perceived necessity. And a good friend in Rosarito, also American, commutes to his job at the Department of the Navy in Coronado; again, his choice.

DianaT - 1-21-2012 at 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
I guess I just never considered any of them "illegal"---they were just students.

Ohhh...c'mon, Diane. That's like saying, "I never considered these things "deadly"----they're just bullets."

.

[Edited on 1-22-2012 by DENNIS]

Dennis-- I believe that behavior and activities can be illegal, but people cannot be illegal. I think it is like labeling children born to single mothers illegitimate. IMHO, I don't think those labels should be attached to human beings.

DianaT - 1-21-2012 at 05:39 PM

Yes, there is a fee of several thousand dollars involved and some people pay it and many don't.

And yes, often the addresses are relatives or friends, but I know that in Calexico there were many garages turned into just a room and rented to more than one person---many of whom never even visited the room. The address was also good for a US Post Office Box. Usually the rent was very little, but it helped the family in the US maintain their place. Calexico had a huge post office box area for a town of its size.

I think my point about paying taxes was misunderstood. Yes, it makes no difference for qualifying for attending public school, but there still are a lot of taxes paid.

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
When I first considered putting my daughter into a school across the border in Chula Vista many years ago, I spoke to the school Board in Chula Vista who told me that no matter what, if you didn't live in the states your child had to pay a few thousand dollars a year to go to school in the US if you lived in Mexico, even though I was paying taxes and working in the US...doesn't matter what taxes Mexicans pay when they come to the US and buy things...think about the 30% taxes that items are marked up in Mexico that Americans buy in Mexico. And I never heard of anyone renting a US address...its usually a long lost cousin 8 times removed doing a family favor.

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

I agree..

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2012 at 05:40 PM

As a nurse working in the US in Chula Vista, frequently patients come in that are illegal...we look at them as patients, not criminals and NEVER report them to the INS...so I see where you are coming from Diane..although strangely enough they and their families are usually the most demanding....

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
I guess I just never considered any of them "illegal"---they were just students.

Ohhh...c'mon, Diane. That's like saying, "I never considered these things "deadly"----they're just bullets."

.

[Edited on 1-22-2012 by DENNIS]

DENNIS - 1-21-2012 at 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
IMHO, I don't think those labels should be attached to human beings.

We need labels in order to communicate, Diane, and your ideas are way too Orwellian for me. "New-Speak" is the premise that if a word doesn't exist........neither does the concept.
Sorry. This concept of "illegal" is a long way from disappearing.
There are, however, terms which might supplant the moniker, "illegal." Trespasser, invader, and interloper quickly come to mind. Illegal seems the more gentle of the bunch at this time.

David K - 1-21-2012 at 05:51 PM

As long as there is someone else's money to pay for them...!

The money has run out, what are you gonna do... ask the people who don't pay property taxes in your country to pay for your schools to keep teaching their kids?

It was pure foolishness to let it happen in the first place, and now instead of the people who belong here having good schools for their kids, California schools have become among the nations worst and NOBODY gets a good education anymore! Nobody... illegal or legal.

All for 'good intentions' and it's one world afterall... BS. If it is one world, then WHY is the U.S. the ONLY country that pays for everyone else BEFORE making sure their own are provided for???

Wake up America... Mexico won't pay for your illegal activity in Mexico, why should the U.S. pay for Mexican illegal activity in the U.S. ???

paranewbi - 1-21-2012 at 06:48 PM

"Martha’s destination, along with dozens of young friends — United States citizens all living in “TJ,” as they affectionately call their city — is a public high school eight miles away in Chula Vista, Calif., where they were born and where they still claim to live".

Ok, I had to read the article twice to make sure I did not misunderstand the content...If I did miss something, please corrrect me.

These are people who probably will eventually walk our streets LEGALLY one day. The 'illegal' aspect that some here seem stuck on is the money issues with respect to property taxes and the 'illegal' declaration of residence. Yet the tone seems to be one of 'Illegal' Immigrants permeating the discourse.

As 'LEGAL CITIZENS', you and I will live with these people being productive citizens (and maybe beholden to the gratitude of what treatment they received as a child) or non-productive (due to sub-standard provisions in education) in our midsts. What do we want? Lets answer that and then discuss the consequences of what we would not allow.

The quality of our education system is not dependant upon the quantity of the children. If that is the premise than lets eliminate the ones that don't show an apptitude of success or out right laziness....oh o, that's mostly the locals.

where they were born...

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2012 at 07:03 PM

Of course they are going to say that they were born there or risk being thrown out...why would anyone call Chula Vista AFFECTIONATELY their city?? These writers are so far away from the action they need to hang it up...There is no beauty in Chula Vista...the name sounds great...but its so full of cholos and redneck trailer parks..the beauty has died long ago....it certainly is NOT scenic....i would live in Mexico ANYWHERE than live in Chula Vista..even TJ..(in Playas of course...!!!)

Quote:

Originally posted by paranewbi
"Martha’s destination, along with dozens of young friends — United States citizens all living in “TJ,” as they affectionately call their city — is a public high school eight miles away in Chula Vista, Calif., where they were born and where they still claim to live".

Ok, I had to read the article twice to make sure I did not misunderstand the content...If I did miss something, please corrrect me.

These are people who probably will eventually walk our streets LEGALLY one day. The 'illegal' aspect that some here seem stuck on is the money issues with respect to property taxes and the 'illegal' declaration of residence. Yet the tone seems to be one of 'Illegal' Immigrants permeating the discourse.

As 'LEGAL CITIZENS', you and I will live with these people being productive citizens (and maybe beholden to the gratitude of what treatment they received as a child) or non-productive (due to sub-standard provisions in education) in our midsts. What do we want? Lets answer that and then discuss the consequences of what we would not allow.

The quality of our education system is not dependant upon the quantity of the children. If that is the premise than lets eliminate the ones that don't show an apptitude of success or out right laziness....oh o, that's mostly the locals.

DENNIS - 1-21-2012 at 07:06 PM

Chulajuana has a nice harbor.

paranewbi - 1-21-2012 at 07:27 PM

With all due respect Ensenada Dr., and that is sincere...For any of us to make suppositions as to truth in content of the authors...especially qualified by personal perceptions perhaps not shared (blight of chula vista and name calling)...is to disregard the ability to have discourse on the merits of the subject, i.e., the article itself.
I would ask that you take note of the passport held in the photo (ok possibly doctored (no offense), and the substance of escorting these individuals through a series of inspections for legal validity to enter our country...or is that not pallatable to you Dr.

norte - 1-21-2012 at 07:36 PM

"as a nurse"? are you a doctor as well? or is you experience in CV dated?

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
As a nurse working in the US in Chula Vista, frequently patients come in that are illegal...we look at them as patients, not criminals and NEVER report them to the INS...so I see where you are coming from Diane..although strangely enough they and their families are usually the most demanding....

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
I guess I just never considered any of them "illegal"---they were just students.

Ohhh...c'mon, Diane. That's like saying, "I never considered these things "deadly"----they're just bullets."

.

[Edited on 1-22-2012 by DENNIS]

DianaT - 1-21-2012 at 07:43 PM

OK, I had and have a label for them----students, young people seeking an education. Good for them!

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
IMHO, I don't think those labels should be attached to human beings.

Opinions...

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2012 at 07:51 PM

Sorry, Dennis did enlighten me...I didn't realize that Chula Vista had a beautiful harbor..as he told me...I just think Mexico has more natural beauty than some areas of the US....some of the story could be true..then again...it could have been "doctored"...I don't believe everything I hear...and students could be crossing with Mexican visas not necessarily passports and be attending said schools...I really feel I would need more information to believe 100% of the story..that's just how I feel, then again no one has to agree with me.

Quote:

Originally posted by paranewbi
With all due respect Ensenada Dr., and that is sincere...For any of us to make suppositions as to truth in content of the authors...especially qualified by personal perceptions perhaps not shared (blight of chula vista and name calling)...is to disregard the ability to have discourse on the merits of the subject, i.e., the article itself.
I would ask that you take note of the passport held in the photo (ok possibly doctored (no offense), and the substance of escorting these individuals through a series of inspections for legal validity to enter our country...or is that not pallatable to you Dr.

I am both...

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2012 at 07:56 PM

To add to my CV, (if you look at my Facebook page, it is there) I worked as a Hospital Supervisor in Hawaii as a nurse and have more than 15 years experience..

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
"as a nurse"? are you a doctor as well? or is you experience in CV dated?

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
I guess I just never considered any of them "illegal"---they were just students.

Ohhh...c'mon, Diane. That's like saying, "I never considered these things "deadly"----they're just bullets."

.

[Edited on 1-22-2012 by DENNIS]

DENNIS - 1-21-2012 at 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
then again no one has to agree with me.

I agree with you. :biggrin:

norte - 1-21-2012 at 08:16 PM

And now a doctor in Ensenada Educated in the US?..Your experience should help a lot here. and Cute, How are we supposed to know your facebook page.

>

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
To add to my CV, (if you look at my Facebook page, it is there) I worked as a Hospital Supervisor in Hawaii as a nurse and have more than 15 years experience..

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
"as a nurse"? are you a doctor as well? or is you experience in CV dated?

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
I guess I just never considered any of them "illegal"---they were just students.

Ohhh...c'mon, Diane. That's like saying, "I never considered these things "deadly"----they're just bullets."

.

[Edited on 1-22-2012 by DENNIS]

CV

EnsenadaDr - 1-21-2012 at 08:49 PM

What are your doubts and what are you having trouble believing?

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
And now a doctor in Ensenada Educated in the US?..Your experience should help a lot here. and Cute, How are we supposed to know your facebook page.

>

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
To add to my CV, (if you look at my Facebook page, it is there) I worked as a Hospital Supervisor in Hawaii as a nurse and have more than 15 years experience..

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
"as a nurse"? are you a doctor as well? or is you experience in CV dated?

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
I guess I just never considered any of them "illegal"---they were just students.

Ohhh...c'mon, Diane. That's like saying, "I never considered these things "deadly"----they're just bullets."

.

[Edited on 1-22-2012 by DENNIS]

DENNIS - 1-21-2012 at 08:54 PM

Schools in the states won't even allow students to cross the district line. Why should people from Mexico be allowed to do that?
Everything needs to be paid for. That is the cause of our economy problems today. Too many want everything for nothing.

.

[Edited on 1-22-2012 by DENNIS]

DENNIS - 1-21-2012 at 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
What are your doubts and what are you having trouble believing?

Hey Doc....check your U2U in a minute.

constitution?

akshadow - 1-21-2012 at 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
well, in my opinion, there should be a better way to control this situation since these kids are AMERICAN .... they should be allowed to study in chula vista somehow. the constitution guarantees every American the right to an education.

I don't believe the US Constitution guantees any such right.

Education is controlled by the states. Many state constitutions address the issue. But not the US Constitution.

akshadow - 1-21-2012 at 09:15 PM

Most school districts in the states will not allow students from another district to attend their schools. Property taxes are the usual source of school funding in the US and most tax payers do not want to pay any tax let alone property tax to support students from out of district.
Why would you expect tax payers in the border towns to want to pay to support out of district students?

BajaBlanca - 1-21-2012 at 09:33 PM

akshadow

I removed my comment cause it seems it ain't so !! I always believed the constitution guaranteed public education to every American...I learned just now that it ain't so.

mtgoat666 - 1-22-2012 at 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Schools in the states won't even allow students to cross the district line. Why should people from Mexico be allowed to do that?
Everything needs to be paid for. That is the cause of our economy problems today. Too many want everything for nothing.

actually, our economic problems are a result of a housing bubble burst and melt down of the financial system that held mortgages.

our deficit spending appears large, but is not cause of past/ongoing problem.

deficit looks bad, but will be cut significantly by a few years of moderate inflation.

it is the selfish that are trying to scare you into voting to gut medicare and soc security....

David K - 1-22-2012 at 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
California schools have become among the nations worst and NOBODY gets a good education anymore! Nobody... illegal or legal.

You can largely blame that on parenting, not the schools.
All due respect David, how about some empirical evidence to back up such a statement.
The worst educational systems are in the right to work states.
Go figure.
Give me something more than anecdotal horsepoo on this.

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE Frank... I grew up in San Diego County... K through 12 (Class of '76) and then Palomar College before getting sidetracked into irrigation back in 1980. The changes in how and what is taught to our children and then on prioroities for future citizens has been epic in near disaster... at least where my two kids went to school and yes, I had to teach them who the presidents were and about America's contributions to the free world.

By the time they finished middle school, they were convinced Martin Luther King was one of our president's and the best thing they could say about Thomas Jefferson is that he had slaves... great. Oh, do I talk about how they had to study the Muslim religion, but no longer could daily say the Pledge to the flag... with that terrible 'Under God' part in it!!!

Maybe in other California schools... with lots of home schooling, it is different... Just not here where my kids went (within 20 miles of where I went, 30 years earlier)!

Oh, and my son had an IEP... let me not get started on all the nonsense and meetings with staff I went through just to try and get him what the law said he was to get.. and he never did get... they always had excuses and made him start the process over each year, even though it was known what he needed... Yah Frank, I was there, and I did it all as best a single parent could... When you fight the teacher's union for the good of your children, they (at least here) make sure your kids loose, but still act like the kids come first.

At least now, many years later, my son has really come forward, is going to college, wants more out of life, and I am happy to see it. My daughter, too (now a mother) wants to get ahead and have better and it is great to see her thinking so well of the future. Those positive attitudes are not anything the public school system has given them, but instead on internal dynamics within them.

If any good can come of this: Support the School Voucher System that helps non-rich families transfer their kids to better schools, like the rich and political elites use!

DianaT - 1-22-2012 at 02:14 PM

David K
Because you and your children had a bad experience for possibly many reasons, how can that translate to:

"California schools have become among the nations worst and NOBODY gets a good education anymore! Nobody..."

I still hear from former students who graduated with honors from places like Harvard, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Boston College, etc. and Calexico is considered a low performing school district according to the "test" scores---- a totally different topic as to why.

But does that mean that every student in Calexico receives an education that qualifies them for such success? NO is does not. There are too many variables.

Some home schooled students receive excellent educations and some parents should be jailed for child abuse because of their awful attempts at home schooling.

One cannot paint with such a broad brush. Are there problems with the school system? Yes and there always will be. But the middle class and the overall success of this country has been a result of public education.

The voucher system would only give another break to the very wealthy who already can afford to send their children to private schools. The amount that any middle or working class person would receive as a voucher would not pay for private schools ---not even close.

And private schools are not necessarily better. Often some of their teachers are not certified and are very underpaid. One of the reasons they are often successful is because of the student's home environment--it makes a huge difference.

It is a shame your children had such a difficult time for whatever reasons.

BTW --- California used to be number 1 in funding for their public schools----they are way down on the list now. And yes, money can and does make a difference in things like class size, supplies, enrichment programs, etc.

But as soulpatch wrote, the opportunities are still there within the public system.

DianaT - 1-22-2012 at 04:23 PM

Soulpatch,

We both know that all those evil unions are what are destroying this country----it was those Robber Barons who built the middle class in this country---- :lol:

I also was on my own at 16. I managed to barely finish my last year of high school supporting myself with the Social Security I received from the death of my dad while living with my sister who was barely out of high school. What a dump we lived in. Actually, I did not attend school too often until they told me that if I missed one more day I would not graduate. :-)

It was not until later that I also started a long, very long journey seeking higher education. What was great was that the community colleges in those days were FREE. It took me 8 years to get through community college---one or two classes at a time and a couple of kids thrown in.

Higher education in California was available to everyone, and it is sad that the B movie actor started the trend of making higher education less available. John remembers when it cost him a $72.00 fee for each semester at UCLA.

But this, I guess is off-the topic---so to bring it back on topic, I am also a big supported of the Dream Act. YES. Education should be available to any student who has the motivation.

David K - 1-22-2012 at 05:00 PM

Yes Frank, I have moved my kids into different classes (it wasn't easy, the principle said no... until I went to the district supervisor (who was so impressed at my desires for my kids to get educated, gave me his home number to contact him if I was getting the run around any more). My daughter also went to the academy schools in the area when the standard public school was impossible to deal with anymore.

Yes, all public funded... as I said, I am not rich and could not afford private schools without allowing me to use the tax dollars taken from me to pay for them via vouchers. School choice is what will make excellent schools, not protectionism by unions over members.

Anyway, I gave my personal experience with my opinion (yes jdtrotter, I know all California schools aren't bad, I was just seriously frustrated with the politics and to hell with the kids as long as the teacher keeps her job attitude, I experienced).

Things seriously changed after the 70's... and while most probably get through and do fine, and sure higher number are left by the wayside... and yes lack of parent envolvement is the biggest failure for our kids...

As for funding for our schools... if we only had to educate the kids of taxpayers (citizens) and not everyone that shows up, maybe there would be enough money... What the heck happened to the California Lottery, that was supposed to boost money for schools? Is that what Jerry Brown is going to use to pay for foreign kids to go to college in California, while California kids have to pay or forget about it???

Crazy, just crazy... :rolleyes:

[Edited on 1-23-2012 by David K]

DianaT - 1-22-2012 at 05:05 PM

David K,

I guess you and your children are simply victims and may always be so. Very sad indeed.

[Edited on 1-23-2012 by DianaT]

JoeJustJoe - 1-22-2012 at 05:09 PM

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Originally posted by David K

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Originally posted by soulpatch

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Originally posted by David K
California schools have become among the nations worst and NOBODY gets a good education anymore! Nobody... illegal or legal.

I call BS!

The vast majority of kids still say the pledge including the line about God.

A kid would have to be pretty dumb to believe Martin Luther King was a US President, because I know schools wouldn't teach such falsehoods.

Now some conservative bigoted parents might hate the fact that schools their children go to learn anything about Martin Luther King.

It's doubtful the schools teach anything but the most basic tenets about the Muslim religion, and they would probably do so in world history high school courses, where they might briefly hear about the five pillars of Islams to contrast to what they already know about the 10 commandments.

At least your kids know a little about Thomas Jefferson David K. If your kids were in the right-wing God fearing Texas Schools districts. There is a chance they might not have heard about the most important Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, because the Texas school districts don't like Jefferson's deist views and want Jefferson replaces with Thomas Aquinas or John Calvin because their philosophical views are more in line with the Judeo-Christian thumpers views in Texas.

And if your kids grew up in Texas they would be taught sexual "ignorance" or rather "Abstinence" sex education. Abstinence sex education is the reason why so many teen girls get knocked up in Texas.

School Voucher Systems are unfair to poor parents that would still be forced to send them children to public schools, and the public schools would probably get less tax dollars if school voucher programs were available to rich and middle class parents.

Besides I don't want my tax dollars to go to private religious schools that teach kids about Jesus. They could learn about Jesus in their church.

rts551 - 1-22-2012 at 05:12 PM

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Originally posted by David K

Yes, all public funded... as I said, I am not rich and could not afford private schools without allowing me to use the tax dollars taken from me to pay for them via vouchers. School choice is what will make excellent schools, not protectionism by unions over members

[Edited on 1-23-2012 by David K]

Aren't the schools funded out of local property taxes? Don't you have to have property to have those $ "taken" from you? If you are a renter I supposed the $ are taken from someone else? State subsidies come from income taxes but the assumes you have reported income. Seems to me school was pretty economical in your case.

David K - 1-22-2012 at 05:14 PM

Property taxes are the source, and since my monthly rent is how my landlord pays the school taxes, I have been paying as much as any other resident here.

rts551 - 1-22-2012 at 05:32 PM

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Originally posted by David K
Property taxes are the source, and since my monthly rent is how my landlord pays the school taxes, I have been paying as much as any other resident here.

Seems to me that you were quite the beneficiary of other people's taxes then.

And you landlord probably thinks they are his taxes as well.

Enough said. we are getting off topic except to the extent that the funding for your children was not too much different from the ones crossing the border.

[Edited on 1-23-2012 by rts551]

Ateo - 1-22-2012 at 05:44 PM

I just asked my 8 year old daughter, "was Martin Luther King a president?". Her response, "no".

Case closed.

Just kidding. Complicated issue here....

As far as the "under god", it was added in 1954. It's not as old school as everyone thinks.

Sorry to go even more off topic.

David K - 1-22-2012 at 08:05 PM

Yes I know... and it was good enough for me in the 60's to love my country enough and have some pride in America instead of blaming us for all the world's ills and pollution (the Soviet East Block was far dirtier). Then the recent lie about man caused global warming as a way to punish America further when we do so much good in the world to care for others... really pitiful. Now, we are talking about forcing the Canadians to not help America with the Keystone pipeline and let them build it directly west to sell straight to Red China... and this is a shovel-ready project with 20,000 direct new jobs and 100,000 indirect jobs. Shame shame on the politicians hurting Americans.

Ateo - 1-22-2012 at 08:18 PM

DK: Global warming is real. I was skeptical at first, but evidence has changed my mind.

EnsenadaDr - 1-23-2012 at 08:42 AM

The article is clear, American citizens, then why are they living in Mexico?? Were their parents deported? Or if the parents are legit, then why don't they send their kids to a good private school in Mexico...they could save themselves a hassle and the education would be just as good if not superior, because the kids would be learning Spanish and English grammar concurrently.,,,

bajaguy - 1-23-2012 at 09:04 AM

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Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
The article is clear, American citizens, then why are they living in Mexico?? Were their parents deported? Or if the parents are legit, then why don't they send their kids to a good private school in Mexico...they could save themselves a hassle and the education would be just as good if not superior, because the kids would be learning Spanish and English grammar concurrently.,,,

American citizens living in Mexico, going to school (illegally) in the US.....avoiding taxes and spreading the tax burden to all of us who are legal......but I guess that is acceptable to many.

Those of us who do the right thing get penalized due to the actions of those who don' follow the rules or the law............
but again, that is acceptable to many.....

[Edited on 1-23-2012 by bajaguy]

David K - 1-23-2012 at 09:11 AM

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Originally posted by ateo
DK: Global warming is real. I was skeptical at first, but evidence has changed my mind.

I see the evidence in Baja on the coast that proves to me there isn't any sea level change (effective) having gone to the same coastline for 40 years. Sure, erosion happens and the coast changes, but the actual height of the water is not higher (by any more than a cigarette length). In photos of Concepcion Bay (rock not sand), the old road splashed in high tide water near El Coyote in 1966... and it still just splashed in high tide water in 2007... The cluster of palms on the beach, are still on the beach, and not underwater... etc. etc.

As for temperatures, weather changes, it has for millions of years... long before factories and cars... just because the winters or summers are not the same as they were when we grew up is no gauge. Who's to say that the weather now isn't normal and when we grew up (with more air pollution) it wasn't abnormal?

I can think of better things to worry about than this 'sky is falling' hysteria of global warming... which has been turned into a money making scheme by out-of-work polliticians and 3rd world countries to suck more dinero from the good 'ol USA.

In the 70's, it was believed that we were entering a new Ice Age, and their were ideas floated on how to intesify the sunlight reaching earth! Cooling didn't scare enough people... so they went with 'warming' and falsified data and showed scary movies to school kids... great.

[Edited on 1-23-2012 by David K]

TMW - 1-23-2012 at 11:06 AM

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Originally posted by rts551

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Only a portion is from local property taxes. The state gives each scholl district an amount per student based on various factors. The money comes from various sources property taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, lottery tickets etc. Over half of the CA budget goes to fund schools.

paranewbi - 1-23-2012 at 11:40 AM

"In 1931, the Southern California community of Lemon Grove served as the unlikely stage for a dramatic and significant civil rights court case. A group of Mexican and Mexican-American parents and their children won a major victory in the battle against school segregation and the notion of separate but equal facilities. The case, now commonly referred to as the Lemon Grove Incident, was the nation's first recognized court-ordered school desegregation case. The Lemon Grove parents' efforts and legal struggles involved more than 70 children of Mexican descent who were summarily directed by their school principal to attend a hastily constructed, two-room segregated school, the "caballeriza," the barn, which was situated in the "Mexican side of town." The Lemon Grove case is not well known and one could surmise that its most distinguishing characteristic is its obscurity. Similar to the post World War II landmark "Mendez v. Westminster" case, the Lemon Grove matter could be deemed an item of "neglected" history not only because of the public's ignorance of it, but also because of its absence from the public school curriculum. As with "Lemon Grove" and "Mendez," many important historical events pertaining to the Mexican-American experience are not taught in the public schools. Moreover, the Lemon Grove case, albeit an item of unheralded history that has yet to be incorporated into the school curriculum, is a momentous and symbolic historical civil rights event that is one of countless and unique historical, political, and sociological elements that constitute the Mexican-American experience."

"One of the most famous cases, Mendez v. Westminster School District, was a 1945 lawsuit filed by Mexican families in Orange County against the local school district. The case led to the banning of segregated schools in California.

The federal judge in the case ruled in 1946 that the separate-but-equal doctrine of the time did not apply to Mexican-Americans because they were not an identifiable racial group. However, sending them to separate schools based on their national origin violated the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees equal protection to all citizens."

"The disturbing thing is that despite Brown v. Board, Latino children are more segregated today than they were in 1954," said Espinosa, citing a recent Harvard University study. The segregation is not forced, he said, but based on the high number of Latinos who live in poor neighborhoods."

So…. Let’s extrapolate the arguments based on contribution of a financial nature qualifies a student to attend school in the community (i.e. payment of property taxes gives rise to rights).
In the poorer neighborhoods of San Diego where the property tax base is much less and therefore contributions are much less, then is the conclusion drawn that those students should only get what they pay for? Or is it that ANY contribution gives rise to a claim of equal access to the better school? Or is it the issue of transiting a border…if we can take the article at face value in stating these kids are US citizens.