BajaNomad

The Adventures of Juan Gringo...

EnsenadaDr - 2-26-2012 at 02:18 PM

I need a vote..how many of you would allow an expat access to his car in Mexico if he had advanced Alzheimers and still says he visits dead relatives on a weekly basis? He has already had one accident and got it taken away from him from the Mexican police but his friend says his car is all he has so he doesn't want to take it away from him...

[Edited on 2-26-2012 by EnsenadaDr]

Cypress - 2-26-2012 at 02:39 PM

:o I wouldn't want to ride with him.:no:

24baja - 2-26-2012 at 02:43 PM

I would definately contact his family members who should be aware of his status, this is a danger waiting to happen (get lost, killed etc)!!

Family Members..

EnsenadaDr - 2-26-2012 at 02:57 PM

The family members have asked for him to go back to the US but the guy refuses...
Quote:
Originally posted by 24baja
I would definately contact his family members who should be aware of his status, this is a danger waiting to happen (get lost, killed etc)!!

Mulegena - 2-26-2012 at 03:10 PM

I'm going to assume this is more than a rhetorical question, Doctor.

Therefore, I support you in this and know you will respond professionally within the letter of the law.

If there's some "grey" area in interpreting what you must do, then you'll consider the ethics of the situation which may be what you're mulling over right now. How to make a decision which will have great repercussions for many?

Your choice here, to me, is very clear: you'll act for the highest possible good for all concerned, your patient and the citizenry at large. You'll intercede on behalf of your patient in doing what is best as a responsible citizen who has enjoyed many years of driving privilege, not right, privilege.


You'll come to this task with professionalism, compassion and clarity.

vgabndo - 2-26-2012 at 03:13 PM

Is it a responsible thing to do to drive a car while distracted?
No, and the physical deterioration of his brain is clearly worse than a "distraction".

Does this man EVEN KNOW that he is accountable for his failure to keep his assumed agreement with his neighbors to not murder them while unconscious in his car? I would say: NO

Does ANYONE have a responsibility to hold others accountable whom they judge to be operating outside of integrity?

I say yes. It is in my enlightened self-interest to live in a world, among other things, free of the presence of such unnecessary danger.

Does this man have a right, written, spoken, or assumed, to endanger the lives of his neighbors even if he is unaware of it?

Of course not; especially if he is unaware of it.

To be killed by this man would be, in my view, much like being killed by the bullet of a man who had stood in your neighborhood and fired randomly in all directions for months without anyone doing anything about it. I wouldn't want to give up my life for his lamentable mental condition. And from my lofty perch along side the Big J in Heaven, :lol: I'd be peeed that his neighbors hadn't taken his gun away. Do we steal keys from drunks? HELL yes.

I just read Mulegena's beautiful reply above, which came as I was typing. I wouldn't want anyone to think I am unaware of the difference between what MUST be done, and the huge costs in compassion, understanding, and emotion that will be paid before this problem is resolved.
Fierce compassion is required to avoid adding tragedy to misfortune.

[Edited on 2-26-2012 by vgabndo]

Very good points..

EnsenadaDr - 2-26-2012 at 03:26 PM

I have tried to convince the person in charge to do the right thing...they feel it would be destroying what is left of the independence of the person. By the way, you write with clarity and profesionalism...
Quote:
Originally posted by Mulegena
I'm going to assume this is more than a rhetorical question, Doctor.

Therefore, I support you in this and know you will respond professionally within the letter of the law.

If there's some "grey" area in interpreting what you must do, then you'll consider the ethics of the situation which may be what you're mulling over right now. How to make a decision which will have great repercussions for many?

Your choice here, to me, is very clear: you'll act for the highest possible good for all concerned, your patient and the citizenry at large. You'll intercede on behalf of your patient in doing what is best as a responsible citizen who has enjoyed many years of driving privilege, not right, privilege.


You'll come to this task with professionalism, compassion and clarity.

bajaguy - 2-26-2012 at 03:47 PM

"In the US".....The Doctor of record can contact the state DMV and have a person's driving privilege revoked. Additionally, a competent Family Law Attorney can petition the court of jurisdiction to appoint a guardian who can sell, or remove the vehicle.

Don't know how that all shakes out in Baja/Mexico, however, if you are the Doctor of record, you might write the individual in charge who is allowing the person to drive and state in very strong terms that in your medical opinion, it is not safe for the person to continue to drive, and the individual in charge allowing the driving may be held accountable if injuries or damages result........

Also the family may want to contact a Mexican Attorney to see what steps can be taken to safeguard the individual.

Social Welfare in Mexico

Mulegena - 2-26-2012 at 05:02 PM

Is "the person in charge" legally responsible for your patient?
The operative here is "legal".
Has your patient an appointed legal guardian?

If so, you can make your professional report to that individual's guardian and government authorities, i.e. ministero publico and federal police who are in charge of the state highway.

If there is no legal guardian, it seems your task might be greater... or your hands might be tied,
but I think you can still act as a private citizen.

From what you expressed it would appear your patient is incompetent.

Are there laws in place in Mexico to protect an individual from himself?

A lot comes up here: Let me qualify this to state that I'm speaking only of my limited, personal experience and observations. I'd like to hear more about the in's and out's of this.

It seems to me this culture is oriented to the family and extended family unit. The family bears the weight of responsibility for care of its elders and incompetents. As I've observed, there is little in the way of public assistance for these people. My observation is the law generally won't assist an afflicted individual or his family-- or intervene, either, in the case of neglect or abuse.

I've also observed a tolerance towards non-nationals as well as long as the individual in question doesn't present a threat to a national citizen or the community at large. Towards the ex-pat community I observe a tolerance as well by the officialdom.

If you know the law, Doctor, and have encountered a disinterested superior in the chain of command, you have my sympathy. You've done your best professionally.

I do know that personal complaints about someone, national or non-national, can be lodged in the ministerial county seat. This is how you might still help the guy if your medical hands are tied.

As a private citizen you can notify the county ministerial official as a concerned county resident (not doctor) regarding the individual (whom you "observed driving irrationally", let's say) without compromising your patient/professional relationship.

Dave - 2-26-2012 at 08:08 PM

I say he should be allowed to drive between the hours of whenever.

I just need to know when.

TOO Funny...

EnsenadaDr - 2-26-2012 at 09:22 PM

Ha ha that was a good one Dave...
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I say he should be allowed to drive between the hours of whenever.

I just need to know when.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 09:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mulegena
Is "the person in charge" legally responsible for your patient?
The operative here is "legal".
Has your patient an appointed legal guardian?



He's not her patient....... No...and No.

Bajamatic - 2-27-2012 at 01:58 PM

not I