EnsenadaDr
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Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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The Adventures of Juan Gringo...
I need a vote..how many of you would allow an expat access to his car in Mexico if he had advanced Alzheimers and still says he visits dead relatives
on a weekly basis? He has already had one accident and got it taken away from him from the Mexican police but his friend says his car is all he has
so he doesn't want to take it away from him...
[Edited on 2-26-2012 by EnsenadaDr]
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
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Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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 I wouldn't want to ride with him.
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24baja
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Mood: Wishing we were in BOLA
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I would definately contact his family members who should be aware of his status, this is a danger waiting to happen (get lost, killed etc)!!
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Family Members..
The family members have asked for him to go back to the US but the guy refuses... | Quote: | Originally posted by 24baja
I would definately contact his family members who should be aware of his status, this is a danger waiting to happen (get lost, killed etc)!!
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Mulegena
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I'm going to assume this is more than a rhetorical question, Doctor.
Therefore, I support you in this and know you will respond professionally within the letter of the law.
If there's some "grey" area in interpreting what you must do, then you'll consider the ethics of the situation which may be what you're mulling over
right now. How to make a decision which will have great repercussions for many?
Your choice here, to me, is very clear: you'll act for the highest possible good for all concerned, your patient and the citizenry at large. You'll
intercede on behalf of your patient in doing what is best as a responsible citizen who has enjoyed many years of driving privilege, not right,
privilege.
You'll come to this task with professionalism, compassion and clarity.
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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vgabndo
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Is it a responsible thing to do to drive a car while distracted?
No, and the physical deterioration of his brain is clearly worse than a "distraction".
Does this man EVEN KNOW that he is accountable for his failure to keep his assumed agreement with his neighbors to not murder them while unconscious
in his car? I would say: NO
Does ANYONE have a responsibility to hold others accountable whom they judge to be operating outside of integrity?
I say yes. It is in my enlightened self-interest to live in a world, among other things, free of the presence of such unnecessary danger.
Does this man have a right, written, spoken, or assumed, to endanger the lives of his neighbors even if he is unaware of it?
Of course not; especially if he is unaware of it.
To be killed by this man would be, in my view, much like being killed by the bullet of a man who had stood in your neighborhood and fired randomly in
all directions for months without anyone doing anything about it. I wouldn't want to give up my life for his lamentable mental condition. And from
my lofty perch along side the Big J in Heaven,  I'd be peeed that his neighbors
hadn't taken his gun away. Do we steal keys from drunks? HELL yes.
I just read Mulegena's beautiful reply above, which came as I was typing. I wouldn't want anyone to think I am unaware of the difference between what
MUST be done, and the huge costs in compassion, understanding, and emotion that will be paid before this problem is resolved.
Fierce compassion is required to avoid adding tragedy to misfortune.
[Edited on 2-26-2012 by vgabndo]
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Very good points..
I have tried to convince the person in charge to do the right thing...they feel it would be destroying what is left of the independence of the person.
By the way, you write with clarity and profesionalism... | Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
I'm going to assume this is more than a rhetorical question, Doctor.
Therefore, I support you in this and know you will respond professionally within the letter of the law.
If there's some "grey" area in interpreting what you must do, then you'll consider the ethics of the situation which may be what you're mulling over
right now. How to make a decision which will have great repercussions for many?
Your choice here, to me, is very clear: you'll act for the highest possible good for all concerned, your patient and the citizenry at large. You'll
intercede on behalf of your patient in doing what is best as a responsible citizen who has enjoyed many years of driving privilege, not right,
privilege.
You'll come to this task with professionalism, compassion and clarity. |
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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"In the US".....The Doctor of record can contact the state DMV and have a person's driving privilege revoked. Additionally, a competent Family Law
Attorney can petition the court of jurisdiction to appoint a guardian who can sell, or remove the vehicle.
Don't know how that all shakes out in Baja/Mexico, however, if you are the Doctor of record, you might write the individual in charge who is allowing
the person to drive and state in very strong terms that in your medical opinion, it is not safe for the person to continue to drive, and the
individual in charge allowing the driving may be held accountable if injuries or damages result........
Also the family may want to contact a Mexican Attorney to see what steps can be taken to safeguard the individual.
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Mulegena
Super Nomad
Posts: 2412
Registered: 11-7-2006
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Social Welfare in Mexico
Is "the person in charge" legally responsible for your patient?
The operative here is "legal".
Has your patient an appointed legal guardian?
If so, you can make your professional report to that individual's guardian and government authorities, i.e. ministero publico and federal police who
are in charge of the state highway.
If there is no legal guardian, it seems your task might be greater... or your hands might be tied,
but I think you can still act as a private citizen.
From what you expressed it would appear your patient is incompetent.
Are there laws in place in Mexico to protect an individual from himself?
A lot comes up here: Let me qualify this to state that I'm speaking only of my limited, personal experience and observations. I'd like to hear more
about the in's and out's of this.
It seems to me this culture is oriented to the family and extended family unit. The family bears the weight of responsibility for care of its elders
and incompetents. As I've observed, there is little in the way of public assistance for these people. My observation is the law generally won't assist
an afflicted individual or his family-- or intervene, either, in the case of neglect or abuse.
I've also observed a tolerance towards non-nationals as well as long as the individual in question doesn't present a threat to a national citizen or
the community at large. Towards the ex-pat community I observe a tolerance as well by the officialdom.
If you know the law, Doctor, and have encountered a disinterested superior in the chain of command, you have my sympathy. You've done your best
professionally.
I do know that personal complaints about someone, national or non-national, can be lodged in the ministerial county seat. This is how you might still
help the guy if your medical hands are tied.
As a private citizen you can notify the county ministerial official as a concerned county resident (not doctor) regarding the individual (whom you
"observed driving irrationally", let's say) without compromising your patient/professional relationship.
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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I say he should be allowed to drive between the hours of whenever.
I just need to know when.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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TOO Funny...
Ha ha that was a good one Dave... | Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
I say he should be allowed to drive between the hours of whenever.
I just need to know when. |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
Is "the person in charge" legally responsible for your patient?
The operative here is "legal".
Has your patient an appointed legal guardian?
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He's not her patient....... No...and No.
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Bajamatic
Senior Nomad
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Registered: 8-31-2006
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not I
yuletide
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