BajaNomad - Litter in San Felipe

Litter in San Felipe

sancho - 3-13-2012 at 10:29 AM

Off the SF site, hope it is credited correctly,
this last weekend's 250 race, and the litter
left by spectators, Gringo trash or otherwise,
not a good representation, but probably not
Baja Afficianado's
http://sanfelipe.com.mx/2012/03/13/and-now-to-clean-up-the-m...

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 10:49 AM

I have yet to see an event anywhere SOB that had sufficient trash cans. La Bufadora Mall is like that every weekend.

I have to ask myself what I would do with a handful of trash and no place to put it.

willardguy - 3-13-2012 at 11:06 AM

they should move the race to easter week and clean up only once :rolleyes:

Oddjob - 3-13-2012 at 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
Off the SF site, hope it is credited correctly,
this last weekend's 250 race, and the litter
left by spectators, Gringo trash or otherwise,
not a good representation, but probably not
Baja Afficianado's
http://sanfelipe.com.mx/2012/03/13/and-now-to-clean-up-the-m...

In my observations, the vast majority of the trash is left by the Mexican spectators.

surfer jim - 3-13-2012 at 11:09 AM

I don't recall ever seeing a trash can that wasn't overflowing...even the ones on the toll road where you know the have the money to empty them. On the good side, full ones keep dogs and crows happy.

Barry A. - 3-13-2012 at 11:24 AM

"pack it in/pack it out".

That's why portable plastic trash bags were invented! We NEVER leave our trash anywhere but in not-full trash containers, at the dump, or we take it home with us. PERIOD!!!!! Our family has done that FOREVER.

From my point of view there is NO excuse for littering!!!!!

People who leave their trash is where the term "poor _______ Trash" came from (you add the color of your skin in the blank).

It's a disgusting habit!!!!

Barry

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 11:31 AM

All cultures, or segments of a culture, don't share an equal amount of civic responsibility and pride. One man's land-fill is another mans rose garden.

Barry A. - 3-13-2012 at 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
All cultures, or segments of a culture, don't share an equal amount of civic responsibility and pride. One man's land-fill is another mans rose garden.

I suppose you are right, Dennis, but I will NEVER comprehend it---------"trash" freely blowing around or just "sitting there" just gives me a very sick feeling about Humans-------the only word I can come up with is "disgust"!!!

So, I fill my little plastic bag and try and go about my business feeling that AT LEAST I did "something". Makes ME feel better, anyway. And then I just forget about it as I have "done my thing". :lol:

Barry

sancho - 3-13-2012 at 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
"pack it in/pack it out".

No doubt a mandatory rule to conduct ones selve by,
but as pointed out, Mex locals do not view throwing
basura around as anything negative, more as
just a common occurance

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2012 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
All cultures, or segments of a culture, don't share an equal amount of civic responsibility and pride.

dennis:
i think people have similar amounts of pride and civic responsibility. you are mistaken to think that littering indicates they have no pride or responsibility. -- they just have different priorities and different sense of aesthetics, and different cultural practices and expectations

gringos used to be very filthy litter bugs -- greenies waged propaganda campaign on litterbugs and cured gringos of their filthy habits. greenies are great!

give a hoot, don't pollute!

Barry A. - 3-13-2012 at 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
All cultures, or segments of a culture, don't share an equal amount of civic responsibility and pride.

--------mostly correct, Goat, but there were a lot more folks than just "greenies" involved in that effort, and still are, as I can testify too. "Litter" has NEVER been a political issue that I am aware of. This Nation has made tremendous progress and it is noticable, at least in the areas where I have been (mostly in the West). However, when I now travel east of LA down into the desert (often) I notice that there seems to be a resurgence of the problem--------and that is a shame!!! Anza-Borrego Desert State Park itself is an exception, and looks great!!!! almost little free now. Makes me feel really good!!!

Barry

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
dennis:
i think people have similar amounts of pride and civic responsibility. you are mistaken to think that littering indicates they have no pride or responsibility. --

I didn't say anything like that. It's just that we have different interpretations of tolerable and intolerable littering.

Me, for instance....I'm a firm believer that you can't litter aluminum. In fact, throwing your empty beer cans on the side of the road is an enrichment to someone else. That Tecate can will be in his bag before the second bounce. :biggrin:

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2012 at 12:20 PM

dennis, this is what you said:

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
All cultures, or segments of a culture, don't share an equal amount of civic responsibility and pride. One man's land-fill is another mans rose garden.

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

gringos used to be very filthy litter bugs -- greenies waged propaganda campaign on litterbugs and cured gringos of their filthy habits. greenies are great!

Yeah??? Well, I sure don't want to offend anyone on the board, but those Greenies should follow around some of the French Canadians that visit Mexico. They can be the most ant-trash can people I've ever seen.

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
dennis, this is what you said:

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
All cultures, or segments of a culture, don't share an equal amount of civic responsibility and pride. One man's land-fill is another mans rose garden.

Yeah....I know what I said. I said people are different. Not everybody took Garbage 1A and 1B in college like you did.

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2012 at 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I'm a firm believer that you can't litter aluminum. In fact, throwing your empty beer cans on the side of the road is an enrichment to someone else. That Tecate can will be in his bag before the second bounce.

"firm believer?"

whatever!

maybe the mexican litterbug just is like you, takes pride in leaving his filthy litter for scavengers to pick through, eh?

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
maybe the mexican litterbug just is like you, takes pride in leaving his filthy litter for scavengers to pick through, eh?

Filthy litter?? My beer cans?? Shame on you and your elitist ways. There was one old man in Ensenada who followed me around for years catching my flying aluminum. He earned so much money that he branched off to other fields of commerce. Perhaps you've heard of him......Carlos Slim Helú??

surfer jim - 3-13-2012 at 12:59 PM

......that made me laugh....thanks Dennis. :spingrin:

desertcpl - 3-13-2012 at 01:04 PM

I really don't want to start a culture war here,

but like it was said in some above posts,, Mexicans are really terrble about leaving there trash, I seen it here in Yuma at the River, they could care less

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
but like it was said in some above posts,, Mexicans are really terrble about leaving there trash, I seen it here in Yuma at the River, they could care less

I agree. Some [not all] are. The younger, better educated folks are well aware of the proper methods of trash disposal and have a peer group to answer to.
That said.....one of life's great teachers has yet to enter the scene in Mexico....a cop with a big, fat ticket book for litterers. That will train a person's conscience in short order. Until that time, we just have to accept what it is.

One thing I refuse to do; when some in the expat community gather together to clean a beach after a Mexican holiday....they can count me out. I didn't come down here to be anybody's janitor....or moral example.

.

[Edited on 3-13-2012 by DENNIS]

J.P. - 3-13-2012 at 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
but like it was said in some above posts,, Mexicans are really terrble about leaving there trash, I seen it here in Yuma at the River, they could care less

One thing I refuse to do; when some in the expat community gather together to clean a beach after a Mexican holiday....they can count me out. I didn't come down here to be anybody's janitor....or moral example.

" AINT THAT THE TRUTH" :lol:

.

[Edited on 3-13-2012 by DENNIS]

trash

captkw - 3-13-2012 at 01:51 PM

hola,trash and butt's and beer cap's= bad new's,, but, who taught folk's to leave gosh darnn dieper's behind,,SICK !! pack it,,pack it out,,is that to much to teach your child ???? K&T :cool:

sancho - 3-13-2012 at 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Filthy litter?? My beer cans?? Shame on you and your elitist ways. There was one old man in Ensenada who followed me around for years catching my flying aluminum. He earned so much money that he branched off to other fields of commerce. Perhaps you've heard of him......Carlos Slim Helú??

From picking up D's beer cans to a Billionaire?
Where do I apply?

Mula - 3-13-2012 at 02:00 PM

I agree, I can tolerate about everything else - but those damn diapers!

Here in Lopez the litter pickers have been taking the plastic bottles lately, too.

And the metal and aluminum guys are always busy!

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho

From picking up D's beer cans to a Billionaire?
Where do I apply?

Just follow me. :lol:

desertcpl - 3-13-2012 at 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
but like it was said in some above posts,, Mexicans are really terrble about leaving there trash, I seen it here in Yuma at the River, they could care less

David K - 3-13-2012 at 03:39 PM

Quote:

I just saw the article using your link... and it does NOT say "Gringo trash".

In fact, if you ever witness an off road race in Baja where 'locals' come to watch... THEY leave all their garbage, beer bottles, and baby diapers in the desert. Gringos for the most part are good stewards of the region and pack out what they bring in (and more if they have room).

[Edited on 3-13-2012 by David K]

it takes a village (and villages that tolerate cranks)

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2012 at 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
but like it was said in some above posts,, Mexicans are really terrble about leaving there trash, I seen it here in Yuma at the River, they could care less

I totally agree with this statement, I think there was a discussion here on Nomads a few months back, about the beaches in down town San felipe, the expats was wanting other gringos to rally around the effort to clean up the beaches, and not only that was wanting donations for trash bags
I dont think so

both of you sound like you moved to mexico for cheap living, to take from community, and return nothing to community,... correct? :?:

waste not want not

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2012 at 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Gringos for the most part are good stewards of the region and pack out what they bring in (and more if they have room).

it takes a village!

give a hoot, don't pollute!

take only pictures, leave only footprints!

earth day every day!

what would nature do?

reduce, reuse, recycle!

Barry A. - 3-13-2012 at 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Gringos for the most part are good stewards of the region and pack out what they bring in (and more if they have room).

it takes a village!

give a hoot, don't pollute!

take only pictures, leave only footprints!

earth day every day!

what would nature do?

reduce, reuse, recycle!

All those are great, Goat, except the "what would nature do" one-------we all know what "nature" is capable of, and it ain't always pretty-------witness the tornados in the mid-west lately, or the volcanoes in Indonesia and the Phillipeans, or the tsunami's in the last few years--------THAT is what "nature" does sometimes, and almost everything in it's path is essentially destroyed or changed radically.

Lets leave that little "saying" out of the list. :light:

Barry

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
it takes a village!

give a hoot, don't pollute!

take only pictures, leave only footprints!

earth day every day!

what would nature do?

reduce, reuse, recycle!

I'll bet you have a Winnie The Pooh tattoo...doncha. :lol:

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2012 at 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
it takes a village!

give a hoot, don't pollute!

take only pictures, leave only footprints!

earth day every day!

what would nature do?

reduce, reuse, recycle!

I'll bet you have a Winnie The Pooh tattoo...doncha. :lol:

i don't, but if i did i would flaunt it! dennis, you sound like you insecure about your masculinity

DENNIS - 3-13-2012 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
i don't, but if i did i would flaunt it! dennis, you sound like you insecure about your masculinity

Nah...not a bit, but I'll leave the flaunting to you. I might even pay Fu to give you another Roto-Rooter session. Sounds like you're becoming impacted with yourself. :lol:

willardguy - 3-13-2012 at 04:46 PM

cant wait to hear from SF horns :rolleyes:

Here is how I desert camp...

Ken Cooke - 3-13-2012 at 05:01 PM

With a trash bag or two hanging from my tire carrier!

Barry A. - 3-13-2012 at 05:02 PM

You're a good man, Ken, despite what people say. :lol:

Barry

Latinos and Americans are good land use stewards

Ken Cooke - 3-13-2012 at 05:08 PM

Cohabuzo Junction campout

...before

...after

...Pole Line Road campout

...before

...after (notice the trash bags in use)

desertcpl - 3-13-2012 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
but like it was said in some above posts,, Mexicans are really terrble about leaving there trash, I seen it here in Yuma at the River, they could care less

both of you sound like you moved to mexico for cheap living, to take from community, and return nothing to community,... correct? :?:

actually I never had an opinion with you one way or the other

but now I can see why Dennis has issues with you, that is a butt head statement

willardguy - 3-13-2012 at 06:19 PM

okay. so the average mexican family brings a trash bag and packs it out. now what do they do with it?

rubencastillo - 3-13-2012 at 06:48 PM

Our group, friends,and family have been to many of the Baja race's We always haul out what we bring, plus more. I have taken extra trash bag's to hand out, help's a little. They need to Educate the local's that they dont have folk's picking up after them..I know the Score folk's are always reminding racers and pit crew's to pick up after them self's.. I for one try to let the fan's in our area pick up after them selfs, 90 percent our cool about it,,the others just play dumb,,thinking someone else will pick up for them,,Sorry for venting,,but were loseing the our clean Desert's,Oh

yea we haul our trash back to San Diego, Coustoms wont even open the bags.

willardguy - 3-13-2012 at 07:03 PM

but what about the family that doesnt get to go home to california and put it on the curb? the trash has to go somewhere

desertcpl - 3-13-2012 at 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rubencastillo
Our group, friends,and family have been to many of the Baja race's We always haul out what we bring, plus more. I have taken extra trash bag's to hand out, help's a little. They need to Educate the local's that they dont have folk's picking up after them..I know the Score folk's are always reminding racers and pit crew's to pick up after them self's.. I for one try to let the fan's in our area pick up after them selfs, 90 percent our cool about it,,the others just play dumb,,thinking someone else will pick up for them,,Sorry for venting,,but were loseing the our clean Desert's,Oh

yea we haul our trash back to San Diego, Coustoms wont even open the bags.

and this is cool, I am sure as Dennis says, as the younger generation is coming aboard with all these issues it will work for the better for every one,
I dont like picking up after people whether I am In Baja or here in Arizona, now pay me alot of money and I might change my mind LOL

Ken Cooke - 3-13-2012 at 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl

I dont like picking up after people whether I am In Baja or here in Arizona, now pay me alot of money and I might change my mind LOL

I have packed out glass and aluminum although there is no redemption monies for these materials here in California.

Barry A. - 3-13-2012 at 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl

I dont like picking up after people whether I am In Baja or here in Arizona, now pay me alot of money and I might change my mind LOL

I have packed out glass and aluminum although there is no redemption monies for these materials here in California.

Ken-------that is very strange------here in Redding, CA (the RedNeck right-wing capitol of the universe) everything is recycled and we do have a healthy "redemption" program for aluminum (tho mostly we just let the city program have the profits since they collect the recyclables-------we have 3 separate cans-------garbage, green waste, and recyclables, and have for years.

Barry

Ken Cooke - 3-13-2012 at 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl

I dont like picking up after people whether I am In Baja or here in Arizona, now pay me alot of money and I might change my mind LOL

I have packed out glass and aluminum although there is no redemption monies for these materials here in California.

When the recycling machine scans for a CA Redemption bar code on Mexican-produced cans and bottles, it doesn't find any. Therefore, no monies are paid out - unless someone takes the gas/aluminum in a large container in bulk to pay you with a coupon for it.

Barry A. - 3-13-2012 at 10:24 PM

Ken---------Here in Redding you can take a bag of alum. cans into the recycle center (state of the art), they weigh the bags, run them thru a machine as you watch, and pay you on the spot in cash -----no "bar codes" checked.

Barry

wilderone - 3-14-2012 at 09:03 AM

I was surprised to see someone (appeared to be official looking employee - not a trash scrounging individual) picking up trash along Mex 1 just south of the Abreojos turnoff. There were multiple plastic bags full of trash ready to be collected. I also thought, overall, Mex. 1 looked relatively litter free. Lots of "Don't Throw Trash", "Keep Your Highway Clean" signs. At the Scammons Lagoon camping area, there are three trash cans at every site - one for recyclables, one for organics and one for "other" trash. Maybe the message is finally starting to take hold. And particular events should plan for a clean-up crew afterward. What bothers me A LOT is the broken glass at every fire ring you come across. I cleaned up and brought broken glass home with me - from my secret Punta Prieta camping place - which is now glass free. One time US Customs took my trash sack because I told them I had bought and eaten oranges in Baja - they wanted the orange peels. Leave no trace.

BajaBlanca - 3-14-2012 at 09:22 AM

the mess left behind at these events is horrible and for sure, an extra fee should be collected to cover clean up costs.

The only way to change this is by example. If they see us carrying out our trash from public places, that is a good start.

My goal has been to work with the kids - they are the future of Mexico.

I found it very interesting that LITTER was such a major issue in the surey. i would have to agree totally about it being a priority for my chosen community.

David K - 3-14-2012 at 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
this was posted a few days ago on the San Felipe web site, about the trash from the races Baja 250

http://sanfelipe.com.mx/2012/03/13/and-now-to-clean-up-the-m...

Ummm, go to the first post in this thread... that is what is being discussed. The race was the San Felipe 250... as well.

mtgoat666 - 3-14-2012 at 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
the mess left behind at these events is horrible and for sure, an extra fee should be collected to cover clean up costs.

instead of (or in addition to) a cleaning fee, govt to require a bond be posted by race permittee, and bond only released after suitable cleanup documented. govt could cash in on bond if race promoter leaves trash all over the desert, causes road damage, causes erosion damage, etc.

the race is source of problem. the litterers would not be present if not for race

Barry A. - 3-14-2012 at 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
the mess left behind at these events is horrible and for sure, an extra fee should be collected to cover clean up costs.

Goat, goat, goat-------------sorta like drugs are the problem, not the users--------if there were no drugs, there would be no users/abusers. This type of thinking ALWAYS blows my mind.

The responsibility lies with the knotheads that litter, not the Race promoters.

Like, it's not the oceans fault that people drown in it-----it's the individuals fault that jump into it.

Arghhhhhhhhhh--------so frustrating!!!!!

barry

David K - 3-14-2012 at 10:08 AM

The races in Baja began in 1967, the mobs of people came later.

Litter would not be a problem if the people who bring it also take it away.

Don't you think getting people to stop throwing trash onto the ground anywhere at anytime is what matters?

sancho - 3-14-2012 at 10:26 AM

I have never joined a group of Gringos picking up
basura after a Mex Holiday, but when in SF at
a campground in town, I get the rake and clean he
beach as needed. I certainly don't consider 20 min
out of my day as JANITORIAL work. Quite the opposite.
I'll take it a step further, 'leave it cleaner than you found
it', regardless of the source of trash. I feel quility if I
don't, whether it's a lake in the Ca Sierras, or Baja,
I feel it's an obligation, a little concern for the places
I enjoy visiting. Foutunately I think MOST feel the
same

Barry A. - 3-14-2012 at 11:34 AM

I applaud you, Sancho------you hit the nail on the head!!

Barry

DENNIS - 3-14-2012 at 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
I have never joined a group of Gringos picking up
basura after a Mex Holiday, but when in SF at
a campground in town, I get the rake and clean he
beach as needed. I certainly don't consider 20 min
out of my day as JANITORIAL work.

Great. But, you don't approach the task as an act of Noblesse Oblige as I've seen done here. Most people I've seen in these efforts couldn't care less about the environment, but they do like to show they travel the moral highground and, after all, they are good stewards of the land and it's incumbent upon them to show these Mexicans how to treat the earth.

Coincidently...there is a beach-cleaning party being organized at this moment right here in PB and it's being tossed about on the Punta Banda Bulletin Board. Here is a couple of statements from one of the participants concerning the effort:

"As a little bit younger guy- I will continue to be a voice for a higher standard and set of values-- for everyone- not just Mexico"

"I would just like to see Mexico step up once in a while"

It's so nice to see saviors among the heathens. :fire:

Bajajorge - 3-14-2012 at 11:40 AM

For some reason people just don't know how to pick up after themselves. Even if there are no trash cans around they could put their trash in a bag and carry it away with them when they leave.

Another habit people have during the Baja 250 is driving with a total disregard for traffic regulations. I wonder if those race driver wannabees :fire:

would like it if I drove by their homes at 60-70mph. I'm surprised there was only one fatality on Hwy5 this race weekend.

Drive as fast and stupid as you'd like out in the desert, but please next year drive through residential areas with some courtesy and regard for local speed limits.

desertcpl - 3-14-2012 at 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajorge
For some reason people just don't know how to pick up after themselves. Even if there are no trash cans around they could put their trash in a bag and carry it away with them when they leave.

Another habit people have during the Baja 250 is driving with a total disregard for traffic regulations. I wonder if those race driver wannabees :fire:

I know its insane,, they all think they are in the race, I dont want to be on the road at all during these times

sancho - 3-14-2012 at 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
they do like to show they travel the moral highground and, after all, they are good stewards of the land and it's incumbent upon them to show these Mexicans how to treat the earth.

I know what you mean when deeds are done to strictly
to 'get noticed, get a pat on the back'. Heck D if you knew
me, you would realize I have no Moral Highground.
I would NEVER suggest to a Mex National how to
govern himself

mcfez - 3-14-2012 at 03:09 PM

Sorry for your wait willardguy !

SF has improved drastically over the last 8 years....with the trash issue. The Rotary Club and the Lions Club ....have been working with city officials as well as the Mexicali officials. The drive from Mexicali to San Felipe is clean up in a mega way. Cars, litter...some old structures...all removed. Trash receptacles were place randomly along the highway (which was a bad idea....never emptied).

The town and beaches are a mess after major events.The Baja 500.... Memorial Day ....Spring Break.....and a dozen other events that draws thousands of tourist. It is said that SF had zero vacancy the last during Memorial Day....Baja500 draws around 100,000 thousand folks from Ensenada to the San Felipe areas............EXPECT TRASH!

And here I go again.......
Who here has ever seen clean streets right after the Rose Bowl Parade? How bout the Macy's Parade of New York? Even seen a clean beach...say.... Huntington Beach right after the 4th of July? How bout all these cigarette butts that were in the gutters of the USA street and highways? Why do we have volunteer companies cleaning up sections of our highways...and it is still sort of bad in many sectors?

Photo of a trash heap on the Rose Parade route from a previous year
http://tiny.cc/s3k6aw

Each city needs improvement

Blow you mind away with this reading....
http://laist.com/2012/01/06/who_left_behind_more_trash_occup...

.........

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
cant wait to hear from SF horns :rolleyes:

[Edited on 3-14-2012 by mcfez]