BajaNomad

mysterious air strip

4x4abc - 3-16-2012 at 04:39 PM

now here is a question for you Baja buffs: saw it on an older map some years ago and when Google Earth became available I checked it out.
Yes, there is an air strip high up in the Sierra la Asamblea. Who put it there? When and why?

http://www.baja101.com/Baja-GPS/airstrip.kmz

airstrip.jpg - 49kB

Fernweh - 3-16-2012 at 05:07 PM

Harald,

as per Google Earth the strip measures about 865' of length.

That is quiet short for a runway at a +4000' elevation. The elevation difference between both strip ends is about 36'.

The terrain start to rise up approx. 1 mile away from the end of "runway 21" (downhill runway)

Too short for me to fly in there:o

Karl

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2012 at 05:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 4x4abc
Yes, there is an air strip high up in the Sierra la Asamblea. Who put it there? When and why?


same aliens that gave us all implants!

Barry A. - 3-16-2012 at 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by 4x4abc
Yes, there is an air strip high up in the Sierra la Asamblea. Who put it there? When and why?


same aliens that gave us all implants!


I suspect the Goat is speaking from experience.

Barry

woody with a view - 3-16-2012 at 06:16 PM

rockerfellers or kennedys. either way, it's old money, er cartel!

4x4abc - 3-16-2012 at 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fernweh
Harald,

as per Google Earth the strip measures about 865' of length.

That is quiet short for a runway at a +4000' elevation. The elevation difference between both strip ends is about 36'.

The terrain start to rise up approx. 1 mile away from the end of "runway 21" (downhill runway)

Too short for me to fly in there:o

Karl


Karl,

too short to fly in or not - someone went through the pain of creating this thing (bulldozer etc?) who and why?

David K - 3-16-2012 at 07:56 PM

What's interesting is that there is no road leading up to it... It looks like a mission trail, but on top of a mountain with no connection up or down?

Have you seen the DC-3 wreck on Cerro La Gobernadora... just northeast of El Crucero, near the top?

dtbushpilot - 3-16-2012 at 08:10 PM

It would be "sporty" but doable in a bush plane, C180, C185, maybe even a 206. It would be a piece of cake in a super cub or similar plane.....assuming it was somewhat maintained.

Bob H - 3-16-2012 at 10:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
What's interesting is that there is no road leading up to it... It looks like a mission trail, but on top of a mountain with no connection up or down?

Have you seen the DC-3 wreck on Cerro La Gobernadora... just northeast of El Crucero, near the top?


This air strip looks like a drop off place for a helicopter transfer of drugs! Very efficient and clandestine for this type of activity. A small plane lands, unloads to a helicopter, etc.

[Edited on 3-17-2012 by Bob H]

larryC - 3-17-2012 at 07:57 AM

When I was researching a planned trip to Salsipuedes canyon years ago I talked to Fransisco Munoz about that airstrip. He said it was an illegal strip used to drop off big horn sheep hunters, probably back in the 50's and 60's.
Larry

4x4abc - 3-17-2012 at 08:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
What's interesting is that there is no road leading up to it... It looks like a mission trail, but on top of a mountain with no connection up or down?

Have you seen the DC-3 wreck on Cerro La Gobernadora... just northeast of El Crucero, near the top?


Haven't seen the DC-3 - never heard about it. Do you have a fixed point?

capt. mike - 3-17-2012 at 10:02 AM

i like Larry's idea. Munoz would have known.

a Storch with big tires could have done it easily and with a load of hunters.

David K - 3-17-2012 at 10:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 4x4abc
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
What's interesting is that there is no road leading up to it... It looks like a mission trail, but on top of a mountain with no connection up or down?

Have you seen the DC-3 wreck on Cerro La Gobernadora... just northeast of El Crucero, near the top?


Haven't seen the DC-3 - never heard about it. Do you have a fixed point?


In 2004, I posted a reply to TW about Erle Stanley Gardner's book chapter on the lost mission of Santa Ysabel... Erle describes its location in relation to the DC-3 wreck... So, thanks to Nomad Search, here is the location (provided by BillB, who hiked up to it):

The DC-3 plane wreck that the chapter starts out talking about is on Cerro la Gobernadora (just northeast of El Crucero). GPS at the wreck is: 29°17.33'/ 114°06.57'

[Edited on 10-15-2019 by David K]

David K - 3-17-2012 at 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
When I was researching a planned trip to Salsipuedes canyon years ago I talked to Fransisco Munoz about that airstrip. He said it was an illegal strip used to drop off big horn sheep hunters, probably back in the 50's and 60's.
Larry


Very cool detail! Thanks Larry!

willardguy - 3-17-2012 at 10:31 AM

are there any photo's of the dc-3?

David K - 3-17-2012 at 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
are there any photo's of the dc-3?


BillB sent them to me, so I need to search and try and find them.

They were posted on Nomad, but this site lost many years of photos posted that were hosted on Nomad (one reason why I use Photobucket now)... Doug says he can get them back, but he has been saying that for years... and it is old stuff, so how many look back at old posts?

mtgoat666 - 3-17-2012 at 10:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by 4x4abc
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
What's interesting is that there is no road leading up to it... It looks like a mission trail, but on top of a mountain with no connection up or down?

Have you seen the DC-3 wreck on Cerro La Gobernadora... just northeast of El Crucero, near the top?


Haven't seen the DC-3 - never heard about it. Do you have a fixed point?


In 2004, I posted a reply to TW about Erle Stanley Gardner's book chapter on the lost mission of Santa Ysabel... Erle describes its location in relation to the DC-3 wreck... So, thanks to Nomad Search, here is the location (provided by BillB, who hiked up to it):

The DC-3 plane wreck that the chapter starts out talking about is on Cerro la Gobernadora (just northeast of El Crucero). GPS at the wreck is: 2917.33'/ 11406.57'


corrected nomenclature for those coords is 29 17.33' -114 06.57' (dk: you forgot that you need to say negative long when citing coords in mexico)

but nothing visible in google earth at that location

David K - 3-17-2012 at 12:44 PM

Goat, most of us know that we are in the Western Hemisphere and a W or - sign must go along with the numbers on Google Earth.

I have not been able to yet find the DC-3 wreck photos from BillB... I do remember that there wasn't much left... The wreck is near the top on the eastern slope face, from my memory.

The GPS waypoing might be NAD27 and needs to be converted to WGS84 for Google Earth. When/ if I find the photos or the wreck on GE, I will post it here...

Udo - 3-17-2012 at 02:44 PM

The DC-3 is at the army base in Ensenada. It currently has a yellow tail.

David K - 3-17-2012 at 04:36 PM









[Edited on 3-17-2012 by David K]

2012

David K - 3-17-2012 at 05:18 PM

Here are 4 Google Earth images showing the DC-3 site, and the mystery airstrip is added for relationship in the first image... as well as Yubay, El Crucero, Mision de Calamajue:








David K - 3-17-2012 at 05:20 PM

The rancho is about 3 miles from the DC-3 site.

Barry A. - 3-17-2012 at 05:27 PM

David--------this "Rancho"----is it active, and accessible by 4-wheel vehicle??? I think this is a new one on me, this "rancho"---I don't remember ever hearing about it before.

Who reported this rancho, and when? (do you know?)

Barry

David K - 3-17-2012 at 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
David--------this "Rancho"----is it active, and accessible by 4-wheel vehicle??? I think this is a new one on me, this "rancho"---I don't remember ever hearing about it before.

Who reported this rancho, and when? (do you know?)

Barry


The rancho has been therse at least since 2001... I drove on his road to a locked gate (which was many miles before the ranch)... BillB parked at the gate and waited until the owner showed up, who invited him on in. The ranch is near the headwater to Salsipuedes... a short side road goes right to the Salsipuedes arroyo. Another faint road goes along the El Camino Real route to Yubay, but turns south to go to Desengao and meets the Yubay road. The Auto Club even has his road on their map... Guess he finally stopped locking the gate?! I think it is called Rancho San Luis.



The rancho road meets Hwy. 1 where the old L.A. Bay road crosses it... both roads come in like a V meeting at Mex. 1.

[Edited on 3-18-2012 by David K]

TMW - 3-17-2012 at 05:44 PM

The old guy that lived in LA Bay that was always looking for gold mentions in one of his last chapters in his book about the ranch and about the son of the owner. I can't find my copy of the book or I would be more specific.

David K - 3-17-2012 at 05:47 PM

Barry, here is my trip report from Nov. 2002 on that ranch road:

Baja Weekend Part 3:

Sal Si Puedes, NOT!

While at Beach Bob's, we discussed exploring Baja. He told me of a neighbor and friend who wanted to go into Sal Si Puedes canyon, north of L.A. Bay. This was the palm-lined canyon made famous in Erle Stanley Gardner's 1961 'Hovering Over Baja'. Sal Si Puedes translates to 'Get Out If You Can'! To Erle and others it meant Get 'IN', if you can! Earlier this year I emailed with a Baja explorer who did get to Sal Si Puedes from Highway One. I told Beach Bob to tell his friend. I even had the GPS data for the ranch on the mountain above the canyon and the canyon's headwater. I decided to visit the ranch and see the top of Sal Si Puedes.

About 8 miles north of the L.A. Bay highway junction with Highway One, the old L.A. Bay road crosses the highway, going to the southeast. At this same point, a newer road was graded and reached Highway One going off to the northeast (GPS NAD27 N2909.59' W11408.63').

It was a smooth, easy climb up the long slope. The Baja 1000 parallel road is crossed 1.3 mi. from Hwy.1. A corral and new well is passed 3.2 mi. beyond that crossing. The road gets a little bumpy as it winds through some boulders at the foot of the mountain. Then, around another bend, my heart sunk... a locked gate! I was 7.1 miles from Highway One and 2/3 the way to the ranch and Sal Si Puedes. BUMMER!!! I climbed the boulder-covered hill to scan the area. I could see the mountain next to Tinaja de Yubay, about 6 miles to the south-east and the road (I wanted to drive) climb further up the mountain. The gate is at 2912.75'/ 11403.19', elev. 2,600' (that's a 1,100' climb from Highway One). I drove back a couple miles and stopped to hike around a bit and found lots of quartz.

I got back to Highway One and turned north. At El Crucero (2914.30'/ 11409.28'), the race pit vehicles were gone, but a rancher's truck was there... driving through a new gate. If this is ever locked, the old road from San Felipe, Gonzaga, and Calamajue Canyon would be closed at its southern end! I spoke with the man, and he said his new ranch house was nearby and his ranch was also called El Crucero. I showed him a photo of the original El Crucero taken in the late 1960's. I expressed my concern for all the new fences along Highway One and gates over roads. He said his gate would not be locked. But, if it was, one could get to Calamajue by going 6.5 miles north to the water truck access road built for Highway One's construction at 2917.52'/ 11414.30'. I mentioned my attempt at reaching Sal Si Puedes was cut short by such a gate. The ranch at the end of that road is called San Luis, he said. Baja was once known as the land with 'hardly any fences'... That too, is changing.

Barry A. - 3-17-2012 at 05:49 PM

Interesting, David. This area is slowly being opened up, it would seem. There are now so many reported roads that I could probably spend a couple of weeks in that area exploring and poking around. That area has always fascinated me since reading the Earle Stanley Gardner's book on the area.

Thanks, David--------excellent stuff!!!!

Barry

David K - 3-17-2012 at 05:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
The old guy that lived in LA Bay that was always looking for gold mentions in one of his last chapters in his book about the ranch and about the son of the owner. I can't find my copy of the book or I would be more specific.



TMW - 3-17-2012 at 06:18 PM

That's it. Chapter 30 is where Hill talks about the ranch and the son etc.

David K - 3-17-2012 at 07:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
That's it. Chapter 30 is where Hill talks about the ranch and the son etc.


Just re-read it... maybe San Luis? Herman is purposely vague on his details... for good reason! He did say he was north and west of Yubay... so that fits.

larryC - 3-18-2012 at 07:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Barry, here is my trip report from Nov. 2002 on that ranch road:

Baja Weekend Part 3:

Sal Si Puedes, NOT!

While at Beach Bob's, we discussed exploring Baja. He told me of a neighbor and friend who wanted to go into Sal Si Puedes canyon, north of L.A. Bay. This was the palm-lined canyon made famous in Erle Stanley Gardner's 1961 'Hovering Over Baja'. Sal Si Puedes translates to 'Get Out If You Can'! To Erle and others it meant Get 'IN', if you can! Earlier this year I emailed with a Baja explorer who did get to Sal Si Puedes from Highway One. I told Beach Bob to tell his friend. I even had the GPS data for the ranch on the mountain above the canyon and the canyon's headwater. I decided to visit the ranch and see the top of Sal Si Puedes.

About 8 miles north of the L.A. Bay highway junction with Highway One, the old L.A. Bay road crosses the highway, going to the southeast. At this same point, a newer road was graded and reached Highway One going off to the northeast (GPS NAD27 N2909.59' W11408.63').

It was a smooth, easy climb up the long slope. The Baja 1000 parallel road is crossed 1.3 mi. from Hwy.1. A corral and new well is passed 3.2 mi. beyond that crossing. The road gets a little bumpy as it winds through some boulders at the foot of the mountain. Then, around another bend, my heart sunk... a locked gate! I was 7.1 miles from Highway One and 2/3 the way to the ranch and Sal Si Puedes. BUMMER!!! I climbed the boulder-covered hill to scan the area. I could see the mountain next to Tinaja de Yubay, about 6 miles to the south-east and the road (I wanted to drive) climb further up the mountain. The gate is at 2912.75'/ 11403.19', elev. 2,600' (that's a 1,100' climb from Highway One). I drove back a couple miles and stopped to hike around a bit and found lots of quartz.

I got back to Highway One and turned north. At El Crucero (2914.30'/ 11409.28'), the race pit vehicles were gone, but a rancher's truck was there... driving through a new gate. If this is ever locked, the old road from San Felipe, Gonzaga, and Calamajue Canyon would be closed at its southern end! I spoke with the man, and he said his new ranch house was nearby and his ranch was also called El Crucero. I showed him a photo of the original El Crucero taken in the late 1960's. I expressed my concern for all the new fences along Highway One and gates over roads. He said his gate would not be locked. But, if it was, one could get to Calamajue by going 6.5 miles north to the water truck access road built for Highway One's construction at 2917.52'/ 11414.30'. I mentioned my attempt at reaching Sal Si Puedes was cut short by such a gate. The ranch at the end of that road is called San Luis, he said. Baja was once known as the land with 'hardly any fences'... That too, is changing.


That's funny, I am the neighbor/freind of beach Bobs that was interested in salsipuedes canyon. I did make the trip up there and spent 4 nights in the canyon. saw lots of big horn sheep, running water, and no sign what so ever that anyone had ever been there. Of course people have been in there but not too often. I'll try to find my fotos of the trip and post them.
Larry

Barry A. - 3-18-2012 at 08:54 AM

Larry----------Did you go to the canyon Sal Si Puedes the same way David K tried to go??? (via the Rancho road) And if so, were the gates not a problem for you??

Thanks, Barry

Ah Ha-----I see LarryC has started his own thread answering my questions, so disregard my above questions.

Thanks Larry.

[Edited on 3-18-2012 by Barry A.]

larryC - 3-18-2012 at 09:14 AM

Barry
I have been up to those ranchos 3 or 4 times. The gate has never been locked but usually closed. I go through and then close the gate behind me. Realy beautiful place up there, huge granite boulders similar to Catavina area and lots of Blue palms. Also a natural spring and lots of trees. I have heard that there are indian petroglyphs but I have not found them. Maybe next trip

willardguy - 3-18-2012 at 09:46 AM

are you the same larry that was in the discoverbaja article about hiking up to the san juan mine?

CortezBlue - 3-18-2012 at 09:59 AM

Perhaps they had a fashion show and it was the runway they used to run the models up and down?:lol::lol::lol:

David K - 3-18-2012 at 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
are you the same larry that was in the discoverbaja article about hiking up to the san juan mine?


That was a great article, April, 2009 by Carolina Espinoza...

http://www.discoverbaja.com/pdf/apr09.pdf


I have been wanting to get up there for years... The tramline remains, terminal, Las Flores railroad line I have seen... but not the gold/silver mine itself.

[Edited on 3-19-2012 by David K]

David K - 3-18-2012 at 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
same larry?


Larry will have to tell you, but here is that 3 page article... a big reason I join Discover Baja Travel Club is their great quarterly newsletters,...







The ghost town of Las Flores, south of Bahia de los Angeles (only the jailhouse/ gold vault remains standing, built by Dick Daggett) is where the ore was processed and poured into ingots. The railroad engine on display in town, was originally at Las Flores and brought the ore to town from the base of the mountain that San Juan sits on top of. You can see the mine tunnel opening on Google Earth.

larryC - 3-18-2012 at 03:35 PM

Willard,
Yes that was me, what a great trip, I am anxious to go again. Maybe we could drum up some interest here to organize another trip? I found a guide that says he can provide mules and guides for a trip.
Larry

willardguy - 3-18-2012 at 03:55 PM

could you or david pin the san juan mine area on the google map? is it close to the tinaja yubay area? and what the heck is a tinaja?

larryC - 3-18-2012 at 04:34 PM

The san Juan mine is actually closer to San Borja, but quite a hike from there. You can also access the mine the way we went which was up through the Las Flores area, even a worse hike. David will have to show you the GE pictures, the GE coordinates are N 28 42 38.55 by W 113 34 28.50
Hope this helps.
Larry
A Tinaja is a water hole.

willardguy - 3-18-2012 at 04:37 PM

larry, whats the deal with the mules, are they necessary?

larryC - 3-18-2012 at 04:42 PM

Theree is no water up there, no food, and no hotel to sleep in, so you have to carry everything you need in with you. On top of that to get there is almost straight up for about 6 hours. I wasn't blessed with a hikers body so I need all the help I can get. Pack animals are worth their weight in gold up there.

David K - 3-18-2012 at 04:47 PM

Yah, Larry... a few years ago Neal Johns and others started to drive to San Juan from the road to San Gregorio (from San Borja). They only didn't go all the way because one got a flat in a bad place, and they were running low on time (they had arranged with Jose at San Borja for a mule trip to El Aguaje on the Golfo Camino Real)... Photos at http://vivabaja.com/neal

So is it no longer possible to drive a Toyota or Jeep to San Juan, if you know?

I will repost the Google Earth images of San Juan and the Las Flores railroad line.

willardguy - 3-18-2012 at 04:47 PM

gotcha. ah,umm, can,t wait to see the pictures!:rolleyes:

Las Flores & San Juan Mine Railroad (1895-1910)

David K - 3-18-2012 at 05:00 PM

The railroad line runs 5.4 miles from the ruins of Las Flores (south of Bahia de los Angeles) to the bottom of El Terminal canyon where a cable bucket tram line brought the ore down from the San Juan mines high atop the sierra.

Here is the railroad bed at Las Flores heading south...




========================================================

Here is the railroad bed near the terminal (south end)...




=======================================================

As the railroad approaches the terminal platform, the line is elevated via this ...




=========================================================

Here is the terminal platform where Dr. Abraham Vasquez ('Doc' of Camp Gecko) shows me where giant wheels were once mounted at the bottom of the cable tram line. Here the ore was dumped into train cars for the trip north to Las Flores where the ore was processed...




======================================================

Doc and I pose by one of the tram tower timbers as we hike up the canyon...




======================================================

One of the ore buckets that litter the canyon bottom (the good stuff has already been removed and some is on display at the museum in Bahia de los Angeles...




=========================================================


In 2003 my daughter and I went back for another look...



========================================================

GPS and Mileage Notes (map datum NAD27 Mex.)

0.0 Camp Gecko Driveway (4.1 mi. so. of pavement/ town): 2853.96', 11331.85'

5.7 The old Las Flores jail is 0.3 mi. to right.

8.1 Top of long grade, a poor road continues ahead (2846.98', 11332.00'). Main road to Punta San Francisquito bends left.

11.1 Park where railroad crosses, now going from south to north, uphill. Platform at 2844.73', 11332.54' a short walk north from the road.

The auto road continues a short distance ahead to the trail going up Terminal Canyon to the San Juan mines. Before the cable tramline, pack animals brought the ore down the mountain.

===========================================================

The museum of Bahia de los Angeles... on the outside, to the right, is a display of the railroad and ore tram bucket system... In front of the town plaza is the locomotive that was left at Las Flores and an ore car that came from the smaller gauge train line up at San Juan...




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Years ago, at Las Flores...



Erle Stanley Gardner, 1966.



From Marv Patchen's 'Baja Adventures' (1970's photo)



Railroad map from this book...





Rail bed, looking south 2009.



Looking north, 2009.



The railroad bed, just west of the Las Flores jail...



2002 notes:



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Map for reference.... stars placed by Las Flores and San Juan mines, terminal platform noted with arrow. Mileages from Las Flores (east of jail house on graded road) to the junction with the road that continues uphill to the terminal (2.4)... and then 3.0 on to the terminal on the minor road (overgrown brush will scratch vehicle).

It should be noted that the original topo map is incorrect with the placement of the graded road south of Las Flores (I doctored the map to correct its location), and in naming Arroyo el Terminal: It is labled at the next arroyo south of where it really is! Too faint to see in this reproduction...

Google Earth allows you to see the railroad line route as it circles at the terminal, otherwise hidden by vegetation on the ground... next!


Terminal Platform at south end of railroad.

Here ore buckets came down the mountainside using a cable tram (see L.A. Bay museum for display).





Here's a look at the mountain the ore came down from... Originally using mules, then the cable tram bucket system.



Here is the San Juan Mine, on the top of the 4,200' mountain where gold and silver was extracted... there were other mines, as well... A tiny railroad line went from here to the top of Terminal Canyon where the ore buckets were loaded.



Tiny railroad line in the San Juan Valley... elev. 3,836'



Here's the top of the cable tram line route...



From the bottom of the tramline, the Las Flores Railroad took the ore to Las Flores for processing into ingots...

Here is where the San Francisquito road makes a bend, 2.4 miles from Las Flores and the road and railroad to the terminal:



Here is near Las Flores at the north end of the railroad line:




Now, about that 'road' up to Las Flores... I recall that Larry said it was pretty well gone, after reviewing previous posts.

[Edited on 3-19-2012 by David K]

Neal Johns - 3-18-2012 at 10:00 PM

About that road to Los Flores (San Juan) mine....

The reason we stopped was my friend in a 4Runner was handicapped (no useful legs) and we had a little trouble with a tire that rolled off a rim. We got about 2/3 of the way up and the road was still passable. I had my pop-top camper on my Tacoma. A little brushy the first half mile.

Time for a Jeep to try it! Ken?

At Mission San Borja, drive straight through the compound, up a short rocky hill to go along the left side of Arroyo San Borja for 0.3 miles where the road goes right and crosses the arroyo and climbs up to the mesa/airport. At the far end of the airport, take the left fork SE toward San Gregorio. About seven miles from the Mission the road goes over some white soil (probably an old spring) and for sharp eyes there is an old stone wall corral on the left. This is the area of San Juan (Rancho). The faint road to the mine is on the right side of the corral and goes NE away from the road which continues to Rancho San Gregorio and Rancho Nuevo (about a mile further).

San Juan corral [640x480].jpg - 48kB

Barry A. - 3-19-2012 at 08:16 AM

Wow, David and Neal--------once again you both have outdone yourselves and provided the most meaningful information available, it would seem. THIS is the reason I have joined this board, and remain with it.

Many thanks.

Barry

Udo - 3-19-2012 at 08:24 AM

Most gracious thanks for the information, David & Neal.
I think David must have Google Earth professional. That's some great detail.

David K - 3-19-2012 at 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
could you or david pin the san juan mine area on the google map? is it close to the tinaja yubay area? and what the heck is a tinaja?


A tinaja is a place where water can be found... not a spring, but a pool that is protected from the sun and lasts for long periods after the last rain or flash flood. Sometimes the water is under the sand, and you have to dig for it... That is sometimes called a coyote well, as animals can smell the water just below the sand and did to it. Tinaja de Yubay is perhaps the most famous in Baja. Neal Johns has some great photos there: http://vivabaja.com/neal2 after a wet season and it was really full.

Another one is Tinaja de Santa Maria, just south of Valle la Bocana on the Golfo Camino Real between Santa Gertrudis and San Borja... a 4WD can drive to it... Both times I went, the water was below ground, but you could see the coyote holes. Arthur North camped there in 1906 and wrote about it in his 'Camp and Camino in Lower California' c1910.

Here is a Google Earth image from up high to show San Juan, Las Flores, San Borja, etc....




Yes, Gulfo is supposed to be Golfo!

[Edited on 3-19-2012 by David K]

larryC - 3-19-2012 at 01:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Yah, Larry... a few years ago Neal Johns and others started to drive to San Juan from the road to San Gregorio (from San Borja). They only didn't go all the way because one got a flat in a bad place, and they were running low on time (they had arranged with Jose at San Borja for a mule trip to El Aguaje on the Golfo Camino Real)... Photos at http://vivabaja.com/neal

So is it no longer possible to drive a Toyota or Jeep to San Juan, if you know?

I will repost the Google Earth images of San Juan and the Las Flores railroad line.


The flat tire may not be the only reason they didn't go all the way. If they had kept going they might have found other obsticlals. I tried on a quad in April '03 and after alot of hunting and pecking we got as far as the base of the mountain where the road peters out. Walked from there (found the old road bed in several places along the way) up to the rock buiding but not knowing what the layout of the mine was and running out of time we turned around and headed back to san Borja and didn't get back till after dark.




This is as far as we got on the quads



Along the way ther are some pretty good sized bareel cactus,



and some pretty flowers



at the top of the trail you come to this stone building, not sure what its function was but Carolina calls it the "foremans" or "asseyors" building.



Francisco Munoz told me he landed his plane up here at the mine once. I walked the meadow and measured it with my gps. It is flat, no rocks, and is almost 1200' long. Any adventurous pilots out there? I'll go up with you on the second trip.

I walked to El Aguaje last year with Rafael from Rancho San Gregorio. He has reopened the ranch, built a ranch house and some private rooms. He serves meals at the rancho. We walked from there to Aguaje, about 2 hours, there is a family there now doing some farming. Can't find my pics right now.

[Edited on 3-19-2012 by larryC]

willardguy - 3-19-2012 at 02:25 PM

I found this article dated 2010 about a canadian company sniffing around our mine.About Cronus:
Cronus Resources Inc. is a publicly traded exploration company guided by an experienced management team
with proven track records of financial, business and technical success. With a focus on the acquisition,
exploration and development of mineral projects in Latin America, the Company has consolidated a large land
package surrounding the historical high‐grade San Juan Mine in Baja, Mexico.

David K - 3-19-2012 at 02:28 PM

willardguy, on Google Earth you can see a new mine being developed between L.A. Bay and San Borja... north of San Juan... way past the Las Tinajitas petro site in Arroyo Grande (next valley north of San Borja).

[Edited on 3-19-2012 by David K]

Barry A. - 3-19-2012 at 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
I found this article dated 2010 about a canadian company sniffing around our mine.About Cronus:
Cronus Resources Inc. is a publicly traded exploration company guided by an experienced management team
with proven track records of financial, business and technical success. With a focus on the acquisition,
exploration and development of mineral projects in Latin America, the Company has consolidated a large land
package surrounding the historical high‐grade San Juan Mine in Baja, Mexico.


Ah Ha!!!! Very interesting!!! What do you bet the road to the San Juan mine becomes more accessible soon. Those acquisition companies normally don't mess around, but they can be patient, and keep projects on the shelves for a long time.

Barry

David K - 3-19-2012 at 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
Francisco Munoz told me he landed his plane up here at the mine once. I walked the meadow and measured it with my gps. It is flat, no rocks, and is almost 1200' long. Any adventurous pilots out there? I'll go up with you on the second trip.

I walked to El Aguaje last year with Rafael from Rancho San Gregorio. He has reopened the ranch, built a ranch house and some private rooms. He serves meals at the rancho. We walked from there to Aguaje, about 2 hours, there is a family there now doing some farming. Can't find my pics right now.


That is a famous Francisco Muoz landing site, indeed!

The following photos I posted for you on Apr. 18, 2011... here one more time for newbies.. a look at Baja with 50 years seperating them:

SAN GREGORIO 2001 & ~1951 compare.

In 2001:



50 years earlier:



2001:



50 years earlier:



Very special to connect with Baja's past!


The 1950's photos are from Howard Gulick, author of the Lower California Guidebook. See his entire collection: http://libraries.ucsd.edu/speccoll/baja/gulick/index.html

willardguy - 3-19-2012 at 02:40 PM

so that is a before and after photo of the same building?

Ateo - 3-19-2012 at 03:03 PM

nice before and after's............

willardguy - 3-19-2012 at 03:08 PM

so those photos are of san gregorio and the way to get there is thru san borja and las flores valley with the mine and railroad stuff is on the other side of the mtn range? and who's the guy wearing the white ball cap?

David K - 3-19-2012 at 07:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
so those photos are of san gregorio and the way to get there is thru san borja and las flores valley with the mine and railroad stuff is on the other side of the mtn range? and who's the guy wearing the white ball cap?


Yes, San Gregorio is at the end of the road south then southeast from San Borja, then a 1/4 mile hike on the Golfo Camino Real to the ranch house (note that the adobe sits on cut blocks of rock... this is mission-era construction).

The hat is actually tan, a Hunter (irrigation) hat I am wearing.

Here is a photo of Amo Pescar and me on the Camino Real between the road end and San Gregorio... Neal & Marian Johns and my son Chris was also along then (almost 11 years ago):


Neal Johns - 3-19-2012 at 10:07 PM

larryC,
Thanks for the info on the San Juan road near the top, we never counted on getting all the way, a line on Google Earth is not a guarantee of a passable road. Your info is greatly appreciated!
Neal



Looking back toward abandoned Rancho San Juan from near Rancho San Gregorio/Nuevo:

San Juan from Rancho NuevoX.jpg - 50kB

David K - 3-20-2012 at 09:44 AM

Here is my photo the same direction as Neal's. It is taken from the Golfo Camino Real near Rancho San Gregorio looking west-northwest. See Amo Pescar's camper? It is at the end of the auto road, coming from San Borja to San Gregorio.



David K - 3-20-2012 at 09:49 AM

This pickup never left... It was not far from Amo Pescar's in the above photo...



[Edited on 3-20-2012 by David K]

willardguy - 3-20-2012 at 11:02 AM

so is this old truck on the way to the old ranch house?

David K - 3-20-2012 at 11:06 AM

Yes, in the cactus... that was in 2001. I can't recall if it was along the road or the foot trail just beyond the parking area at the end of the road in 2001.

Tioloco - 9-6-2019 at 06:11 PM

Cool old thread. Any new info on this area?

David K - 9-6-2019 at 06:50 PM

Which area?
I did go to the railroad line and terminal again in 2017. See Trip #1 report.
The San Gregorio area has an eco resort but not much talk about it for a few years.

larryC - 9-7-2019 at 08:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Which area?
I did go to the railroad line and terminal again in 2017. See Trip #1 report.
The San Gregorio area has an eco resort but not much talk about it for a few years.


ECO resort? When I was up the Rafael said they did rehab for alcohol and drug problem people. That would be one rough eco resort. I really like what he did with new ranch house. I haven't been back up there for 7 or 8 years. Thanks Tio for bringing this old thread back I had completely forgotten about it.

David K - 9-7-2019 at 08:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Which area?
I did go to the railroad line and terminal again in 2017. See Trip #1 report.
The San Gregorio area has an eco resort but not much talk about it for a few years.


ECO resort? When I was up the Rafael said they did rehab for alcohol and drug problem people. That would be one rough eco resort. I really like what he did with new ranch house. I haven't been back up there for 7 or 8 years. Thanks Tio for bringing this old thread back I had completely forgotten about it.



The Eco Resort is called 'El Canto de la Tierra' and while their website is offline, there are fresh posts on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elcantodelatierra/

More From the Internet:
Rancho San Gregorio is a picturesque and historic ranch located in a canyon on the western slope of the Peninsular Ranges on the Baja California peninsula, approximately eight miles southeast of the Mission San Borja de Adac.

ALSO:
https://vermilionseainstitute.org/rancho-san-gregorio/

The “Vaquero” Experience (available February & March):

Every February and March, members of the Villavicencio family arrive at Rancho San Gregorio to drive the cattle, by horseback, up the mountains into the desert mesas. An “all hands on deck” effort, participants in this heritage practice help the family to brand the cattle, milk and make cheese, and camp alongside fellow vaqueros under the stars while listening to the old family stories. Visitors from all walks of life are welcome to join this meaningful experience.

Costs: $30 pp/per night and includes food. Travel is on your own or carpooling may be available. Email Meghann McDonald at meg@vsfs.org for more details. Please include desired travel dates and number of participants.

For more information about visiting Rancho San Gregorio or about bringing a group of your own, email us at info@vsi.deepdivedylan.io and visit our Start Your Own Field Course page.


Two years ago, Paulina posted a photo of it on their Facebook page:




ElCantodelaTierra.jpg - 141kB

larryC - 9-7-2019 at 08:46 AM

I guess the term "resort" can mean anything you want it to.

David K - 9-7-2019 at 08:49 AM

That is why I added the qualifier "Eco" to it, lol! That makes ex-hippies and Millenials both happy! :biggrin:

AKgringo - 9-7-2019 at 09:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
I guess the term "resort" can mean anything you want it to.


I "resort" to sleeping in my car quite often!

Tioloco - 9-7-2019 at 02:52 PM

Does anyone know current conditions at the "resort"?

larryC - 9-7-2019 at 04:33 PM

They had internet up there and I used to have Rafaels email but I can't find it right now. If I do find it I'll post it here.

larryC - 9-7-2019 at 04:35 PM

Here it is: Rafael Galvan Villavicencio
iridologo@hotmail.com
Send him an email and see what happens.

advrider - 9-7-2019 at 04:58 PM

So it is in the area South of San Borja? Looks interesting...

wessongroup - 9-7-2019 at 05:37 PM

Thanks to all ... :):)

Tioloco - 9-7-2019 at 07:40 PM

Thank you, Larry

Tioloco - 9-7-2019 at 07:44 PM

I believe at some point there were supposed to be horse or donkey assisted camping trips up into the mountain from there. Been interested in doing that there for years. Anybody have any experience with that?

David K - 9-7-2019 at 08:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by advrider  
So it is in the area South of San Borja? Looks interesting...

Southeast, end of the road. See photos of the original ranch earlier in this thread.



[Edited on 9-8-2019 by David K]

Archie - 9-7-2019 at 09:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
I believe at some point there were supposed to be horse or donkey assisted camping trips up into the mountain from there. Been interested in doing that there for years. Anybody have any experience with that?


Every year we do at least two, or three trips monitoring bighorn sheep in that area. We have professional guides and permits for bura deer and california quail hunting in ejido and private lands.

It's a very demanding experience, since there are no roads, water and shade, but you get to see the real baja, and share time with real vaqueros.

If interested, U2U me.

greta

pacificobob - 9-8-2019 at 07:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by capt. mike  
i like Larry's idea. Munoz would have known.

a Storch with big tires could have done it easily and with a load of hunters.

lots of aircraft can operate out of 800 feet/4k msl

AKgringo - 9-8-2019 at 08:25 AM

Alaska bush pilots fly into strips like that all the time. That is one of the reasons that the Anchorage office of the NTSB is such a busy place!

I have been fortunate enough to have flown in some remarkable STOL craft, such as Maule M5 on tundra tires, and De Haviland Beavers on wheels, skis, and floats!

larryC - 9-8-2019 at 08:34 AM

That particular strip has been abandoned for so long that I would think a prudent pilot would want to walk it first before attempting a landing. I'm not a pilot so just saying.
I did walk the flat area up at the San Juan mine and measured it with my gps, it is flat no rocks, bushes or holes and is a little over 1200' long. The southern end drops off into a canyon so no mountains to try to fly over or around on take off.

[Edited on 9-8-2019 by larryC]

David K - 10-15-2019 at 03:25 PM

The DC-3 crash site on Google Earth is on the first page of this thread.

Feathers - 10-15-2019 at 03:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by 4x4abc
Yes, there is an air strip high up in the Sierra la Asamblea. Who put it there? When and why?


same aliens that gave us all implants!


I suspect the Goat is speaking from experience.

Barry


lol... I just spit tequila out my nose! Hurt so good!!! :lol:

Paulina - 10-24-2019 at 08:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Cool old thread. Any new info on this area?


I spent the day today with Betty and Guillermo Villavicencio, of Rancho San Gregorio. I showed Betty the photos David had posted back in 2012 of Rancho Viejo. She pointed out her husband Memo's three Tíos in one photo. Rancho Viejo was built by his great grandfather. Their family lived in that ranch until about 28 years ago, she guessed. I asked her why they left. She said it just got too hard to carry all the supplies on their backs up the canyon.



Guillermo was born in this house.



The old truck that never left was Memo's grandfather's truck, the first truck ever on the ranch. Memo is seen in the following photo sitting on the passenger side. Photos taken 2019.





Rancho Viejo is a wonderful step back in history. Rancho San Gregorio remains a working cattle ranch today. I'm the second from the left in this photo, taken during the round up in March 2019









I am in love with this ranch and the time I'm blessed to be there with the Villavicencio family.

P>*)))>{




David K - 10-25-2019 at 06:39 AM

Paulina, Did the accommodations business there (New San Gregorio) end or is it seasonal? https://www.elcantodelatierra.org.mx/ (the last update was 2012).
From the webpage:
"We at Rancho San Gregorio welcome all to come experience life at the rancho and can accommodate groups of up to 30 people. However, more infrastructure, community education, and the time and presence of caring individuals are needed to fully realize our vision of a balanced, interdependent, harmonic community. Come experience life at the rancho and see how these principles may guide you in your endeavors to improve your own community. We welcome your contributions, ideas, and skills and hope that your heart will also find a home here as ours have."

Thanks for the new photos.
Neal Johns took Amo Pescar, my son Christopher, and me there in 2001. It was abandoned and there was no New San Gregorio (yet) just some lineman shacks at the end of the road.
Curious about the comment of bringing supplies on their back (to Old San Gregorio)... no more mules?


wilderone - 10-25-2019 at 07:42 AM

Love the photos. Lucky you!

Paulina - 10-25-2019 at 10:39 AM

David,
My understanding is that "El Canto de la Tierra", is Rafael Galvan Villavicencio's portion of Rancho San Gregorio. He is a naturista iridologo, a holistic health doctor. Meghann McDonald is the educational coordinator for El Canto as well as the Vermilion Sea Institute in Bahia de Los Angeles. Information as to what's offered at either of those two locations should go through Meghann. I noted that contact info is available on the site you posted. For those who use Facebook, you can find "Vermilion Sea Institute" as well as "El Canto de la Tierra" and make contact there.

The "lineman shacks" you mention are houses that belong to Guillermo, his brothers and mother. The houses are in use when the family is working the ranch/cows.

Regarding carrying supplies to Rancho Viejo, yes, they had mules to help do the hauling, but I can imagine to chore it was to make that trek.

P>*)))>{


Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Paulina, Did the accommodations business there (New San Gregorio) end or is it seasonal? https://www.elcantodelatierra.org.mx/ (the last update was 2012).
From the webpage:
"We at Rancho San Gregorio welcome all to come experience life at the rancho and can accommodate groups of up to 30 people. However, more infrastructure, community education, and the time and presence of caring individuals are needed to fully realize our vision of a balanced, interdependent, harmonic community. Come experience life at the rancho and see how these principles may guide you in your endeavors to improve your own community. We welcome your contributions, ideas, and skills and hope that your heart will also find a home here as ours have."

Thanks for the new photos.
Neal Johns took Amo Pescar, my son Christopher, and me there in 2001. It was abandoned and there was no New San Gregorio (yet) just some lineman shacks at the end of the road.
Curious about the comment of bringing supplies on their back (to Old San Gregorio)... no more mules?


David K - 10-25-2019 at 12:05 PM

Right... well if you ever get an update on the "eco-resort" there, please share that.
As for the old or original San Gregorio, it was 1/4 mile trail hike up from the end of the auto road... Besides the adobe on stone-block ranch house, there are big terraced planting fields near the house and large fruit trees in the gully next to the house (included a guava and a citrus tree, I recall).

This was so interesting, you should put it in its own thread rather than in one about airfields! :light:

Paulina - 10-25-2019 at 02:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Right... well if you ever get an update on the "eco-resort" there, please share that.
As for the old or original San Gregorio, it was 1/4 mile trail hike up from the end of the auto road... Besides the adobe on stone-block ranch house, there are big terraced planting fields near the house and large fruit trees in the gully next to the house (included a guava and a citrus tree, I recall).

This was so interesting, you should put it in its own thread rather than in one about airfields! :light:


I was answering a few questions, that's why my replies are on this thread. I'm having dinner with Guillermo and Betty tonight. I'll ask if they mind if I make a new thread. I really don't know much about the goings on at Rafael's part of the ranch. That should come from the source of contact, Meghann.



P>*)))>{

VermilionSeaInstitute - 10-25-2019 at 08:15 PM

Hi all! So fun to see our Rancho San Gregorio coming up on the ol' Baja Nomad forums! We do have lots of goings on there, but you're very right - none of those have made it to that old website. Coincidentally, but brother and I were just talking about bringing that website up to speed!

Vermilion Sea Institute is the US nonprofit (501(c)3) that supports operations at the Vermilion Sea Field Station in Bahia de los Angeles and also at Rancho San Gregorio in the beautiful Vizacaino Desert (about 40 minutes past Mission San Borja). El Canto de la Tiera is our Mexican nonprofit (Asociacion Civil) to which all of these are responsible.

We have many ongoing projects at the Ranch. Ecotourism, holistic wellness, ethnobotany, cultural experiences are some of these. We also have graduate courses that visit every year to practice biological field methods.

If anyone is interested in visiting or learning more, please shoot me an email... mmcdonald@vermilionseainstitute.org

Thanks Paulina, for sharing your experiences and for letting me know that we made a mention in Baja Nomads :)

Salud,
Meghann

David K - 10-26-2019 at 07:02 AM

Thank you Meghann,
When you update the website or Facebook page, please let us know. I think a few would like to know if there are accommodations and meals available there, as once described. It certainly is tucked back in there and along the Golfo Camino Real, too! Do you take people up to the San Juan Mine and village site, too?

just let me know when!

VermilionSeaInstitute - 10-27-2019 at 11:02 AM

Sure thing, yes, we're available to accept visitors and provide meals and lodging. It's $30 per person per night. Just shoot me an email to arrange dates.

We don't plan regular excursions to San Juan mines, but do have other excursions available. San Juan Mines are better accessed from Bahia de los Angeles. There's no direct route between Rancho San Gregorio and Bahia other than through San Borja and the main highway.


[Edited on 10-27-2019 by VermilionSeaInstitute]

David K - 10-27-2019 at 05:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by VermilionSeaInstitute  
Sure thing, yes, we're available to accept visitors and provide meals and lodging. It's $30 per person per night. Just shoot me an email to arrange dates.

We don't plan regular excursions to San Juan mines, but do have other excursions available. San Juan Mines are better accessed from Bahia de los Angeles. There's no direct route between Rancho San Gregorio and Bahia other than through San Borja and the main highway.


[Edited on 10-27-2019 by VermilionSeaInstitute]


Thank you for the update. What is the best way to find you online (to get email or see more), website, Facebook, ??

elgatoloco - 10-28-2019 at 06:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by VermilionSeaInstitute  
Sure thing, yes, we're available to accept visitors and provide meals and lodging. It's $30 per person per night. Just shoot me an email to arrange dates.

We don't plan regular excursions to San Juan mines, but do have other excursions available. San Juan Mines are better accessed from Bahia de los Angeles. There's no direct route between Rancho San Gregorio and Bahia other than through San Borja and the main highway.


[Edited on 10-27-2019 by VermilionSeaInstitute]


Thank you for the update. What is the best way to find you online (to get email or see more), website, Facebook, ??


mmcdonald@vermilionseainstitute.org


David K - 10-29-2019 at 01:36 PM

Thanks!

VermilionSeaInstitute - 10-29-2019 at 03:18 PM

An article came out just today that describes some of the experiences one visitor had with us at Rancho San Gregorio this past summer. Thought you might appreciate it. It offers some nice context.
http://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/articles/entry/...

David K - 10-30-2019 at 04:08 PM

Thanks!