BajaNomad - not to "mess with" the "tin boat" thread...but ?

not to "mess with" the "tin boat" thread...but ?

cj5orion - 6-14-2012 at 09:45 AM

If you in were upgrade from a tin boat....what would ya get?
I currently have a 12' Avon inflatable with a 40 hp 2 stroke Tohatsu,the Tohatsu is CONSTANLY giving me problems !
I'm getting to old to be bounced around in the inflatable !

So...I'm thinking of upgrading to a nice lil runabout ?
Something used,16' and up
Gonzaga Bay,Isle's,Calamue,etc
Question...outboard ? 2 stroke ? 4 stoke ?
I/O ? size ? etc,etc

opinions...comments
:?:

woody with a view - 6-14-2012 at 09:49 AM

that 40 is way too big for a 12'er, but you prolly know that. my 25hp came off a 12' avon!

find the boat that fits your budget is the only help i can give. okay, maybe just over your budget!!! :light:

Skipjack Joe - 6-14-2012 at 10:06 AM

16 feet and up are pretty hard to beach launch. Calamajue doesn't have a ramp. Gonzaga does have a ramp but the waves come in sideways to the ramp, driving you from left to right as you're launching. No bueno.

To reach remote beaches you will have to often cross miles of heavy washboard. You shouldn't do that with your motor mounted on the transom. So you need a motor light enough to lift on and off the transom, usually several times per trip. I can't lift anything more than a 25hp motor. A 16 foot boat is going to require more than that.

For remote tin boat fishing I would say 14' or less.

That's my 2 cents.

SFandH - 6-14-2012 at 10:21 AM

20" transoms (motor mount to bottom, middle of the boat) will allow for more motor options than 15" transoms, unless you install a jack plate. I don't know how well jack plates work. Anybody have experience with them? My boat has a 15" transom.

Cisco - 6-14-2012 at 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SFandH
20" transoms (motor mount to bottom, middle of the boat) will allow for more motor options than 15" transoms, unless you install a jack plate. I don't know how well jack plates work. Anybody have experience with them? My boat has a 15" transom.

Don't understand your allow for more options statement as it regards smaller motors. Short shaft is 15", long shaft is 20". Order whatever.

20" transom is 5" higher of course than the 15", that can be good or bad depending on the utilization of the boat. I personally prefer a well for the engine just to keep it in the boat and make it easier to work large fish or nets...off the transom without interference.

Would definitely go with an outboard for many reasons and a four-stroke Honda or Yamaha would be my choice. They are just so good now days.

Unless you absolutely need a larger boat I would restrict the size of the skiff to fit on top of your primary vehicle as boats on trailers are a hassle and do not stay together on Baja roads.

Barry A. - 6-14-2012 at 10:44 AM

I totally agree with Cisco on this one.

I have used home-made "jack plates" in the past when we only had a "long shank" motor to deal with (no short shank available)--------it worked fine, but the motor being so high did get in the way. We used them on our large white-water rafts in Utah, mostly to keep the motor as high out of the water as possible, less they flood out in the rapids.

Barry

cj5orion - 6-14-2012 at 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
16 feet and up are pretty hard to beach launch. Calamajue doesn't have a ramp. Gonzaga does have a ramp but the waves come in sideways to the ramp, driving you from left to right as you're launching. No bueno.

To reach remote beaches you will have to often cross miles of heavy washboard. You shouldn't do that with your motor mounted on the transom. So you need a motor light enough to lift on and off the transom, usually several times per trip. I can't lift anything more than a 25hp motor. A 16 foot boat is going to require more than that.

For remote tin boat fishing I would say 14' or less.

That's my 2 cents.

Na ! not worried bout that.
I'm gonna keep the boat here at Gonzaga,jus launch/retrieve from Alfy's,the boat wont be traveling on any dirt roads cept
palapa to Alfy's.
I'm "concerned" about seaworthiness of various makes,models,size,etc.
You all know how "remote" Calamue is....ya dont wanna have
any "issues" with your boat there ! or say maybe goin 5-10 miles out for some do-do's,etc,etc

Cisco - 6-14-2012 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cj5orion

Quote:

Wow, you're in P.B. also. I'm over on Emerald right now.

To expand a little on the boat part understanding that it will not have to travel by land on a trailer long distances on Baja roads. You can go to any size you wish. My choice would be a 22' panga with a tiller steered whatever four stroke, depending on your usage probably a 90 hp if you keep the boat light. No console, no garbage, no weight.

Use what works locally. Pangas are an excellent design for what they are used for and where. I had two of Mac Schroyer's pangas brought up in the late 1970's to San Diego but they just didn't fish like the San Diego design skiffs we were using.

Seaworthiness is a function of design not size and the pangas are great for where you will be operating. San Diego, different deal and I fished my 20' SoCal designs commonly at Cortez and Tanner banks which are over 100 miles west of the P.B. pier. Panga would have been fine for safe but not comfort on those kind of trips.

If you are a belt and suspenders kind of guy don't do twin engines (for a lot of reasons) for a "come-home". Pick up a four stroke Briggs and Stratton (uses same fuel) air-cooled, light weight and stash it in the boat someplace. Make sure and have a mounting plate at 15" for the engine on the transom if you go to a 20" transom.

vacaenbaja - 6-14-2012 at 11:51 AM

That is one lonely section of water.Get a good used older whaler with a bimini, put a reliable fourstroke on it. You will have good fuel milage, shade
when you need it, and a proven hull.

Cisco - 6-14-2012 at 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vacaenbaja
That is one lonely section of water.Get a good used older whaler with a bimini, put a reliable fourstroke on it. You will have good fuel milage, shade
when you need it, and a proven hull.

I have a friend in I.B. that might sell you his "outrage" if you decide to go that way.

Although I am a big fan of Whalers and Carolina Skiffs in the right environment (speaking older tri-hull Whalers) they will beat you to death in any kind of chop and are not a good choice for ocean work.

Cypress - 6-14-2012 at 12:10 PM

Have spent a good deal of time in open water onboard a Seacraft. They're tuff and can carry a load. Those Whalers and Carolina Skiffs are just that, Skiffs. Good for bays and smooth water, but not the best choice for open water.

vacaenbaja - 6-14-2012 at 12:40 PM

Well if you want to go further out than inshore and are worried about hull configuration I think that you can find
a good deal on an Invader center console. They come in
sizes from 17ft to I think 21 ft. They were made in the mid eighties to mid nineties or so out of Texas. They seem to
be going for a resonable price.

cj5orion - 6-15-2012 at 06:49 AM

VERY GOOD INFO !
THANX MUCH GENTS !
keep en comin.

hey cisco...when I get back we should have a beer.

boats

captkw - 6-15-2012 at 06:50 AM

OK. this is the facts...... short shaft 15'(few optains).. standard shaft 20' many optains... 25 shaft larger hp only...and the guy that wrote" baja catch" has a LOT to learn about boats and fishing baja !! K & T :cool:

PS..HEY "cisco" I know mac and he and mary are AWsome folk's !! but pangas lack a good ride and are HEAVY and wet ..much better boats are avable !! like the "TWIN VEE'S"

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

Pescador - 6-15-2012 at 07:14 AM

For the ride and conditions you describe, it would be hard to find a better boat than an ARCA type of Panga which were built by Shoyer and was the predominate boat in most of Baja. Perhaps an even better hull is the Reformania which is built in Sonora and has slightly higher sides towards the stern. There are a fair number of these boats that were converted to a side console which works very well on the Sea of Cortez and gives you a lot of fishing room and move around availability, and in terms of fishability is superior to a Center console. Only in a very heavy breeze at 90 degrees to the boat will you get some side spray. I have a friend here in the Santa Rosalia area that has one of these fixed up with a 55 HP Honda and he makes frequent runs out to Tortuga Island and sips about 5 or 6 gallons of gas for the day. He is comfortable with up to 4 people but 2 or 3 is better.
Since you do not need a long haul trailer, the Mexican built trailers would probably suffice for short hauls with a little maintence.
I have seen a lot of tin boats, Gregor being the best, adapted to usage in the Sea of Cortez. The best set up where they mounted a set of wheels on the center of balance and one person could launch this boat over some nasty beach and rock. They normally used around a 15 hp motor and most had some type of live bait tank as well as a radio and depth finder. Every boat that I watched over a long period of time did develop some cracks which needed aluminum welding. That was part of the price for usage and just something that had to be done. Mostly these boats were good for one person and would do with a second person. At San Lucas Cove I saw them catch everything from big Yellowtail, Dorado, Billfish, Grouper, and inshore species. Gregor was the best, followed by Valco's, Klamath, and a few others, but it was imperative that the boat was welded. Rivet boats usually only lasted a partial season before leaking like crazy.

woody with a view - 6-15-2012 at 07:17 AM

my Valco requires a new liberal smearing of silicone along the transom rivets every other year. other that the rock than pinholed up front i have been lucky i suppose...

edit: rivets

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by woody with a view]

pangas SUCK for the ride

captkw - 6-15-2012 at 07:23 AM

same old story around here !! open your eyes and take alot of boats for a ride in rough sea's and A monohull CAN NOT compare to a CAT !! I run,repair and have guided from alaska to costa rica with the cook islands tossed in !! and you might say boating is my life and passion and at 95hr I dont get that kind of pay because I dont know boats!!!

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

cj5orion - 6-15-2012 at 07:36 AM

Agreed.
I think Pangas are good boats for the Cortez...but..."they do suck for the ride"
I AM lookin for a comfortatable ride as well !

Captkw....wish I could afford a "powered" cat ! great boats !
Cause its gonna be a "permanent" Baja boat...I'm not lookin (or able) to sink a lot of $ into it.

boats

captkw - 6-15-2012 at 07:41 AM

Hola,maybe you can call 'TWIN VEE'or LIVINGSTON and tell them you would like to be a dealer for them and they could give you a "demo" and just take folks out when its snoty...they basicly sell themselfs !! also ck out "zapcats" on you tube and also "DUX" boats..K & T those zapcat races must be a BLAST !! I would post the Y.T. vids but I slow on this lap top ..

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

SFandH - 6-15-2012 at 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cisco

Quote:

Don't understand your allow for more options statement as it regards smaller motors. Short shaft is 15", long shaft is 20". Order whatever.

I think you do understand, it limits you to smaller motors, as you said. In the case of Honda, 30 hp or less. The original post mentioned a 16' runabout. My 14 footer is rated to 40 hp and I was disappointed that I can't find a 40 short shaft. I want to pull a skier or wake boarder. Great fun and Bahia Concepcion is a perfect place for it. 30 hp will work, just not as well. I guess most boaters are fishermen and therefore smaller tiller motors are OK. I'm not, I like to go fast on calm water, with a steering wheel and remote controls, a runabout.

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by SFandH]

boats

captkw - 6-15-2012 at 07:55 AM

and I cant forget to steer you to google "moose boats" and watch the vid

captkw - 6-15-2012 at 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw
Hola,maybe you can call 'TWIN VEE'or LIVINGSTON and tell you would like to be a dealer for them and they could give you a "demo" and just take folks out when its snoty...they basicly sell themselfs !! also ck out "zapcats" on you tube and also "DUX" boats..K & T those zapcat races must be a BLAST !! I would post the Y.T. vids but I slow on this lap top ..

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by captkw]

OOPS

dizzyspots - 6-15-2012 at 08:51 AM

Hey Bert..there are a couple of nice Livingstons on the Tucson Craigslist...
$2-3000
then again, I could sell ya my 12ft Valco and buy the Livingston??? LOL

cj5orion - 6-15-2012 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw
and I cant forget to steer you to google "moose boats" and watch the vid

Aluminum cats ! hmmmmm ?
I checked out those "zapcats" !
HOLY MOLY !
not exactly the "comfort ride" I'm lookin for !

:lol:

dizzyspots - 6-15-2012 at 09:10 AM

Hey Bert check your email..sent you some listings from Tucson CL....

Skipjack Joe - 6-15-2012 at 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador

The best set up where they mounted a set of wheels on the center of balance and one person could launch this boat over some nasty beach and rock. They normally used around a 15 hp motor and most had some type of live bait tank as well as a radio and depth finder. Every boat that I watched over a long period of time did develop some cracks which needed aluminum welding.

For those who have such a setup .....

This happened to me on my first boat as well. I believe that this is due to a design that puts the entire weight of the boat on the 1/8" aluminum sides of the boat. Even though the holes are reinforced by thicker metal plates that overlay and can be welded to the boat there is still a lot of stress on a small area. This becomes a particulary big problem when a waves recedes from under the boat and there is now the additional 300lb of weight from you and your partner on those 2 sides.

To overcome this I build the axle under the seat but adjoining the metal sides of the seat. Then the axle is welded to those seat support. The weight of the boat is now supported along the sides and the entire axle because the seat support is welded to the bottom of the boat.

A couple of other suggestions regarding this cracking:

a) hop out of the boat before the wheels touch the bottom during launching and returning.

b) Don't get balanced wheels for the bigger tin boats. Too much weight.

If a crack occurs they can be a real pain to locate. Best to not have them at all.

Cisco - 6-15-2012 at 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SFandH

Quote:

Originally posted by Cisco

Quote:

Don't understand your allow for more options statement as it regards smaller motors. Short shaft is 15", long shaft is 20". Order whatever.

I have been away from outboards for awhile but am amazed that a short shaft 40 is not available.

Alternative is to cannibalize another engine for the lower unit. Bolt-up is the same in generally three different hp ratings for major builders. Eg: The 30, 40 and 50 all use the same lower unit. Find a 15" 30 hp as an example and swap it out.

Cisco - 6-15-2012 at 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cj5orion
VERY GOOD INFO !
THANX MUCH GENTS !
keep en comin.

hey cisco...when I get back we should have a beer.

Golly, I don't know where, place has grown so much.

Can't do a $1.00 "Breakrito" and Sunday brunch beer at Tug's Tavern anymore, everywhere has become so expensive.

How about Bub's Dive?

dizzyspots - 6-15-2012 at 01:04 PM

My "baja" wheel set uses a single 2" square aluminum tube that spans the widthe of the boat...the inner plate/flange is welded to the cross tube...the outer plate/flange is bolted/sealed to the inner plate...no flex...no stress on the outer skin...wheel "axles" extend about 8-10" into the
cross tube copied the design from another nomads post on this forum

Bob and Susan - 6-15-2012 at 01:28 PM

just get a used older 15 footer...you'll be way happy

put a newer 4 stroke 25hp or greater and you'll FLY

they are light and easy to launch and store

make sure you put rollers on the trailer instead of the wood bunkers unless you plan to drive the thing to the north and back

it'll slide right on and off even at the lowest tide

Martyman - 6-15-2012 at 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
captkw,finally someone that agrees with me.GENE KIRA CAN"T FISH!!
"and the guy that wrote" baja catch" has a LOT to learn about boats and fishing baja !!"

BLASPHEMY!

baitcast - 6-15-2012 at 03:54 PM

And that Martyman comes from the Whistler who doesn't even need a boat to be successful,beach caught WSB by the man!
Rob

Skipjack Joe - 6-15-2012 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
captkw,finally someone that agrees with me.GENE KIRA CAN"T FISH!!
"and the guy that wrote" baja catch" has a LOT to learn about boats and fishing baja !!"

Please state your reasons.

How can a guy write the most popular book on fishing baja and not know how to fish?

Your next tin boat

RonnieRockCod - 6-15-2012 at 06:25 PM

First, four stroke absolutely! I had a 14 ft Valco with a 15 hp Honda and it did everything I wanted to do in the Sea of Cortes. The boat fished three comfortably. I had Wheel a Weigh launch wheels and was able to launch and recover easily over sand or rocks. And able to do it solo. I fished Papa Fernandez, Consaga, Oakie Landing, L.A. Bay, Las Animas, San Lucas Cove, Punta Chivato and San Quintin. This over fifteen years. I'm not bragging only trying to emphasize that a forteen footer is plenty boat for one, two or even three. And you don't need forty horses. The most important thing is to watch the weather and the wind. Good luck with whatever you choose. Please let us know your final choice. RRC.

Skipjack Joe - 6-15-2012 at 08:26 PM

Well, I've never fished with Kira so I can't say.

You can usually tell if a fisherman knows his stuff right away. Same with a guide.

My kid hates to troll. I'm not that fond of it either but when you don't know where they are it's all you're left with. Sometimes it can be boring when you catch too many fish trolling. Kira states that he starts trolling on the way to the fishing grounds, virtually as soon as the motor is started. That's a bit much for me. I always attributed that to an era when the fish were abundant and you could get them everywhere, not to a love for trolling.

chuckie - 6-16-2012 at 02:16 AM

Some days, Ya gottta do what it takes...Dorado are still spotty enough that a lot of water has to be covered..I got 3 yesterday, and had a billfish encounter...On Livingston boats? there were a couple here in Mulege, for a while, I think no more..I think I remember problems with wind sensitivity...I think the ideal boat for the not every day user , would be a tin boat 14-17 feet, medium size 4 stroke engine, with or without balls...Not what I own..Run what ya brung tho..

cj5orion - 6-16-2012 at 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Besides it was Neil Kelly who was the fisherman and Kira had the phi beta kapa in literture or something.
Okay I am done.All you "Baja Catch" fans,keep trolling in circles!

GENTLEMEN ! THIS THREAD IS ABOUT BOATS !
PLEASE ....START YOUR OWN THREAD ABOUT YOUR DIFFERENCES
WITH "BAJA CATCH" !!!!!

THANK YOU

chuckie - 6-16-2012 at 06:52 AM

Exactly...

cj5orion - 6-16-2012 at 07:16 AM

Hmmmmmm?

a '86 bayliner capri cuddy,,,volvo penta I/O
"Engine turns over but wont start"
"last on the water.....last year "

Its sellin for a great price.

What you guys think ?
bayliners ? good boat ?
volvo engine/outdrive...good stuff ?

chuckie - 6-16-2012 at 08:48 AM

NO NO NO!!!! Money pit....

SFandH - 6-16-2012 at 09:22 AM

chuckie, I think cj5orion is kidding.

[Edited on 6-16-2012 by SFandH]

Cisco - 6-16-2012 at 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cj5orion
Hmmmmmm?

a '86 bayliner capri cuddy,,,volvo penta I/O
"Engine turns over but wont start"
"last on the water.....last year "

Its sellin for a great price.

What you guys think ?
bayliners ? good boat ?
volvo engine/outdrive...good stuff ?

For your purposes I see no reason to haul all that around (on the water). Cuddy...? And I would stay away from any I/O's, they certainly have their place but not for what you're doing.

I think it was Bob and Susan that pointed out my thoughts perfectly. Get whatever boat feels good for you and there are a whole lot of really cheap hulls out there in this economy and spend your money on a new Honda or Yamaha, throw in another $700 or so for a new B&S come-home engine and you're in fat city without problems for a long time.

If you want a free boat follow the BOAT/US Cat team around after a hurricane and they will give you one.

cj5orion - 6-16-2012 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
NO NO NO!!!! Money pit....

Isnt any boat !

WHAT ??

captkw - 6-16-2012 at 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
and

cj5orion - 6-16-2012 at 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
and

WHAT ?.....WHAT?
"what ya trying to say Capt." ?

going fast

captkw - 6-16-2012 at 05:06 PM

I LOVE going fast !! when the wind gets above 25 knots I go out and shred !! E-ticket ride !! K & T :cool:

livingston

captkw - 6-16-2012 at 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
Some days, Ya gottta do what it takes...Dorado are still spotty enough that a lot of water has to be covered..I got 3 yesterday, and had a billfish encounter...On Livingston boats? there were a couple here in Mulege, for a while, I think no more..I think I remember problems with wind sensitivity...I think the ideal boat for the not every day user , would be a tin boat 14-17 feet, medium size 4 stroke engine, with or without balls...Not what I own..Run what ya brung tho..

HUMMM !! that is one the crazest thing I ever heard..friendS used to call me on the radio when I had my boatyard and tell when it was "livingston weather" and Id go for some high speed runs !! a cat LOVES the wind !! why ?? the tunnel fills with more air and and you pick up speed and less wetted running surface also means your flying over the waves not trying to push/plow throw them as in a mono..there used be a old blue one by the tennie courts (la posada) and 1 day stopped by & talked to the gent and he said the only reason he was alive was that 1 day the wind came up early and he stated that any other boat would have been hell in those seas and would have never intenionly been out in that condition..I myself have learned (by being caught) that I can now play in rolling breakers and not have to worry..but till you ride in one.I can understand that you dont understand and thats perfectly normal !!k & t

[Edited on 6-17-2012 by captkw]