BajaNomad - 2012 Baja 1000

2012 Baja 1000

TMW - 8-9-2012 at 01:10 PM

Pre-running will begin Oct 1 from San Felipe to La Paz. The course will not be marked, however a GPS file will be posted on the SCORE web site.

Pre-running from Ojos Negros begins on Oct 26 and the course will be marked.

http://score-international.com/races/1141/45th_TECATE_SCORE_...

Look under the prerun tab.

I assume a map will also be available by Oct 1.

[Edited on 8-9-2012 by TW]

David K - 8-9-2012 at 03:19 PM

So, they are running on the new highway to Gonzaga Bay, instead of going down the Seven Sisters to have more dirt and less graded/ paved roads? They could have been creative and run the Pacific partway, turn in to go through Chapala to Coco's then on to Calamajue and south through L.A. Bay.

There is no choice between Puertecitos and Huerfanito but to use the highway... beyond Huerfanito, any of the older roads parallel to the more inland highway could be used until they get close to Papa Fernandez', then again no choice.

David K - 8-9-2012 at 03:21 PM

Just looked at the link, wow SCORE isn't cheap on entry fees:

PRO FOUR WHEEL CLASSES - $3,520 TOTAL FEES
PRO MOTORCYCLE & ATV CLASSES - $3,020 TOTAL FEES
SPORTSMAN FOUR WHEEL - $2,100 TOTAL FEES
SPORTSMAN MOTORCYCLE & ATV - $1,900 TOTAL FEES

willardguy - 8-9-2012 at 04:27 PM

could this be sal's way of limiting the field?

And why would Sal want to limit fields???

thebajarunner - 8-9-2012 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
could this be sal's way of limiting the field?

I have known Sal since the first SCORE race (I was in it)
The Sal I know (and Mickey too) never limited fields cuz the entry fees are what line their coffers.

willardguy - 8-9-2012 at 05:37 PM

well this isn't 1967. just like every other pro racing event score will have to regulate the amount of racers. the cost of this race (and the entry fee is a small percent) has become so exorbitant that this race is no longer for mister general public, this is an event for the big players. eventually the purses will grow, not from entry fees but from sponsors and contingency money.
alright lets go racing! :bounce:

David K - 8-9-2012 at 05:50 PM

Well, times are a changing. 1967 was the first NORRA Mexican 1000.

1973, NORRA was booted out and the Mexicans tried to run the the race with their 'Baja Sports Committee' Baja Mil (1000). It was a failure as the money collected from racers disappeared before the winners arrived in La Paz (but they were given some Samsonite luggage)!

1974, Mickey Thompson with his new SCORE organization was invited to put on a Baja race. SCORE held a race that July called the Baja Internacional (about 400 miles with a one hour down time at Mike's Sky Rancho). It was a huge success, and SCORE was invited to continue running the races in Baja.

There wasn't enough prep time for the November 1000, so 1974 was the only year without one. In 1975, SCORE held the Baja Internacional in June (now that the BSC Baja 500 and 1000 were done with) and their first Baja 1000 in November. It was a loop race starting and ending in Ensenada. It took some time to work out the details with running the race to La Paz, as NORRA claimed to still have a contract with the southern state.

1979 was the first SCORE 1000 to run to La Paz... and I was a co-driver in it that race... what fun. We broke down very early, but it was neat to experience the event from inside a race car.

After some years, SCORE changed the shorter race's name from 'Baja Internacional' back to the traditional 'Baja 500'. They also added a third race, the Mexicali 250... in time would change to the San Felipe 250.

[Edited on 8-10-2012 by David K]

I am still missing your point

thebajarunner - 8-9-2012 at 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
well this isn't 1967. just like every other pro racing event score will have to regulate the amount of racers. the cost of this race (and the entry fee is a small percent) has become so exorbitant that this race is no longer for mister general public, this is an event for the big players. eventually the purses will grow, not from entry fees but from sponsors and contingency money.
alright lets go racing! :bounce:

As you point out, the monstrous costs will work to hold down the fields, yes, the entry fee is just a small amount.

We finished second in the pickup class in the 1972 NORRA 1000 on a budget of about $5,000 and that included the cost of the truck. Of course, we did all the building ourselves.

But, if you think race purses come from contingencies and sponsors.... well, you need to look at a race track and note how big the grandstands are- that is where the purse comes from- fannies on the planks, not any other source.

MMc - 8-9-2012 at 07:44 PM

5k is what most teams spend on just the pre-running. There are a lot of teams running Best in Desert because of the price. There are not a lot of sponsor's going around for those guys.

Bob H - 8-9-2012 at 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Just looked at the link, wow SCORE isn't cheap on entry fees:

PRO FOUR WHEEL CLASSES - $3,520 TOTAL FEES
PRO MOTORCYCLE & ATV CLASSES - $3,020 TOTAL FEES
SPORTSMAN FOUR WHEEL - $2,100 TOTAL FEES
SPORTSMAN MOTORCYCLE & ATV - $1,900 TOTAL FEES

Wonder what the entry fees used to be, say 30 years ago?

willardguy - 8-9-2012 at 08:01 PM

I dont know but did they almost double this year?? maybe im not reading this right?

Bob H - 8-9-2012 at 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
could this be sal's way of limiting the field?

Sal Fish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Fish

David K - 8-9-2012 at 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob H

Quote:

Wonder what the entry fees used to be, say 30 years ago?

It was $800 in 1979.

Bajaboy - 8-9-2012 at 09:08 PM

These fees don't seem outrageous to me...it costs about $600 to race an Ironman race and that only covers 140 miles.....

Bob H - 8-9-2012 at 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob H

Quote:

Wonder what the entry fees used to be, say 30 years ago?

It was $800 in 1979.

Good stuff... thanks! Seems reasonable then today.

willardguy - 8-9-2012 at 09:16 PM

I can only speak for pro motorcycles
2011 $1650
2012 $3020

I imagine the other classes see similar increases.

David K - 8-9-2012 at 09:25 PM

2012 goes to La Paz, why more$$$

willardguy - 8-9-2012 at 09:36 PM

good question david, heres the breakdown.
entry $2000
ins $695
land use $150
airplane relay $125
points fund $50
just the tip of the iceberg, not the everyman race it used to be!

David K - 8-9-2012 at 09:54 PM

Agreed

mtgoat666 - 8-9-2012 at 10:09 PM

Quote:

maybe they can spare a few dollars to repair the erosion they cause and clean up the trash their spectators leave, eh?

willardguy - 8-9-2012 at 10:37 PM

well for one thing these three races inject over thirty million dollars into the mexican economy, so I think they can tolerate a little trash.
and secondly, ONCE AGAIN, when you see something in "baja off roading" why don't you just skip down??? :?:

mtgoat666 - 8-9-2012 at 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy when you see something in "baja off roading" why don't you just skip down??? :?:

because sometimes I see people say things like this:

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy ...these three races... I think they can tolerate a little trash.

give a hoot, don't pollute!

lend a hand, care for the land!

every litter bit hurts!

how much litter could a litter picker pick, if a litter picker would pick litter?

:light:

willardguy - 8-9-2012 at 11:04 PM

hey! you edited out the thirty million dollar figure! why? :?:

mtgoat666 - 8-9-2012 at 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
hey! you edited out the thirty million dollar figure! why? :?:

because it was irrelevant, as there is no excuse for littering. that's why

willardguy - 8-9-2012 at 11:25 PM

so there! :lol:

David K - 8-10-2012 at 01:15 AM

There is no excuse for trashing the desert... and with almost no exception, it is the 'locals' who come out from Ensenada or where ever to watch the race ... and they leave piles of trash, beer bottles, etc.

It is their country, and we can only hope that they soon can figure it out... If you can bring the bottles out there full, then it should be even easier to take them back empty!

[Edited on 8-10-2012 by David K]

DonBaja - 8-10-2012 at 09:51 AM

It has been my experience that the trash left behind at the baja races is from the citizens of Mexico, and not American racers or spectators...I'm not sure but I believe SCORE goes back and regrades the main dirt roads after the race, if they don't then I agree that they should.

TMW - 8-10-2012 at 11:10 AM

SCORE does not grade the roads or pay to have them graded after a race. SCORE pays the Ejido and/or land owner based on the number of entries. It is the Ejido or land owner who is responsible for grading the road. Sal likes to use the same course as much as possible because he is dealing with mostly the same people.

The entry fee for racing in SCORE is only a small part of the overall cost of racing the SCORE races. You have the vehicle, spare parts, pit service fees or have your own pits, your chase people and all the cost they have, etc. From 92 thru 94 we ran a motorcycle team racing SCORE, Baja Promotions, BITD, and Mammoth MX. We spent $75,000 per year. We purchased two new bikes per year.

David K - 8-10-2012 at 11:16 AM

Thus, we see the roads not always fixed, as the ejidos do not use the money paid to them responsibly... or for what it is intended.

capt. mike - 8-10-2012 at 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Thus, we see the roads not always fixed, as the ejidos do not use the money paid to them responsibly... or for what it is intended.

sorry - but it is grossly naive to assume or expect that money given to them will be used as the giver intended - and forget contracts. Or to ever expect them to act responsibly. You're talking about a poor populace living in a 3rd world. They are going to put the $$ to whatever need makes their immediate list - that could be food, feed, medicines, school, stock, you name it. Bad roads they are used to and can live with them.

thebajarunner - 8-10-2012 at 03:21 PM

In 12 years of driving the races, and another dozen doing pits, support and spectating, I did not see much impact from the Gringos.

The locals treat these races as a national holiday, with huge gatherings of spectators, piles of trash, etc.

Also, I never saw a Gringo dig a trench across the race road, flood a low spot or make the slow "bull fighter macho stroll" in front of a truck coming on at 100 mph.

But I saw many, many locals playing these very dangerous games.

$30m is big bucks for a region as remote and depressed as Baja. I know there are down sides to the race, but when they stop these events the locals will howl louder than anyone.

woody with a view - 8-10-2012 at 03:23 PM

^^^nuff said^^^

TMW - 8-10-2012 at 04:18 PM

Honda want $2000 if paid before Oct. 15th and $2400 after that date to pit a CRF bike and $1600 for an TRX and XR bikes.

Mag 7
FULL SERVICE CAR,TRUCK,BUGGY, UTV-SBS: $850.00

EMERGENCY ONLY: $400.00

FULL SERVICE BIKE, QUAD: $850.00 *INCLUDES FUEL*

EMERGENCY ONLY: $300.00

For cars, trucks, buggy's, UTV-SBS's all fuel is charged separately as you order it based on quantity ordered & octane.

Fuel prices vary and will not be available from VP-Amber until mid-Sept. SIGN UP NOW FOR SUPPORT AND WILL WILL BILL YOU LATER WHEN FUEL PRICES ARE PUBLISHED.

Baja pits doesn't have any prices posted yet.

$2000 to pit??

thebajarunner - 8-10-2012 at 04:36 PM

"Back in the day" we had a bunch of us banded together into a support team known as FAIR (First Association of Independent Racers) A typical race had 50 or more of us "team" members.
You had to provide one support vehicle with at least one guy, willing to go wherever the team assigned him.
You provided your own gas, marked and sent to the pit that you designated, same with spare tires, etc.
You agreed that the gas and spares belonged to the entire team, once you had dropped out, or gone past without needing them.
After the race all the gas cans, spares, etc. came back to town and we sorted them out.
I do not recall any kind of fee, but we probably all chipped in $50 or $100 for extras.
I still have some of my FAIR stickers affixed to stuff in my shop, and a jacket patch up on my racing shelf.

Ah, the good old days- we raced for fun, we didn't know any better.

David K - 8-10-2012 at 06:18 PM

I used to be a pit captain for Los Campeones Race Team (Vista, CA). We volunteered, didn't get paid... it was fun when you are young! However, if you hauled fuel and that racer didn't use it, then it was ours to use... Nothing better than 108 octane on a hot Baja day to get you home! Pitted for the Baja 1000, Baja Internacional (500), and the Parker 400.

In recent history, we helped pit for Baja Pits (El Cajon, CA) at the Baja 500 and Baja 1000, in 2006. We had over 100 racers to pit for!

liknbaja127 - 8-10-2012 at 06:54 PM

The entry fee for your team will be app. $4,200.oo by the time we pay our
membership fees, for 3 drivers and 3 co-riders! Over four there is a additional fee!! But we keep coming back, Addictions are hard to break: :lol:

capt. mike - 8-11-2012 at 10:43 AM

no wonder he [Sal] is winding down to 3 in 2013.
my bet he's made his $$ and is getting out.
if he can continue to excise these kind of fees it just says that there are people who place enough fun value in it to justify paying, and can afford it.
good for them. Out of my league though.
Now - i do know people who spend a fortune to race Reno air every Sept.
those amounts ARE mind boggling.

Just asking ...

durrelllrobert - 8-11-2012 at 07:12 PM

When Mikey Thompson started this was it called Southern California Off-Road Enthusiasts?

David K - 8-11-2012 at 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
When Mike Thompson started this was it called Southern California Off-Road Enthusiasts?

Sanctioning Committee of Off Road Events.
But before Baja races were included, it was Short Course Off Road Enterprises. Mickey invissioned stadium or grandstand viewing races (such as they used to have at Riverside Raceway), as the future of the sport and a way to collect money from spectators.

[Edited on 8-12-2012 by David K]

bonanza bucko - 8-11-2012 at 08:22 PM

To run the Baja 1000 on pavement is borderline sacreligious.

SCORE always pays the gummint for damage to the road but the gumming, naturally, keeps the money and doesn't fix the road damage...so the "peasants" suffer for SCORE's fun and the gummint's corruption.

...SNAFU

BB:-(

durrelllrobert - 8-12-2012 at 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
When Mike Thompson started this was it called Southern California Off-Road Enthusiasts?

Thanks, I thought my brother was wrong

David K - 8-12-2012 at 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
When Mike Thompson started this was it called Southern California Off-Road Enthusiasts?

Thanks, I thought my brother was wrong

Yah, I may be wrong on what the E stood for, either Events or Enterprises... but SCORE was never 'Southern California', as Mickey had a big vision for it, that was for the whole country (and beyond)? The Baja races kind of fell into his lap after BSC screwed up the Baja races when they took them away from NORRA. I believe they only call it 'SCORE' now, as you never hear it broken into separate words.

thebajarunner - 8-12-2012 at 03:19 PM

Also, one of the really big events in the early years of SCORE was the big bash at Riverside International Raceway (sadly missing, not not forgotten)

It was an interesting course that ran up and back to the original turn 6 grandstand, with great viewing from up there and along the esses.

My partner Gary Johnson drove my truck in the initial event, and finished second.
My memory is that it was a late summer race, not sure about that, and we had recently run a Baja event and basically just cleaned up the truck, changed shocks and rubber and went to Riverside.

David K - 8-12-2012 at 05:59 PM

Riverside was great fun. Attended probably every year from 1974 to 1981 or 2. Camped in the infield with the 3 day pit pass. Greatly missed. The race between Parnelli Jones and Rick Mears was great in their Class 1 buggies.

DonBaja - 8-13-2012 at 04:40 PM

Riverside was a blast!! The last one I attended it rained pretty good and it was like a mud bog..Gilman Brothers were my favorite racers in short course at that time