BajaNomad - 4 dead turtles - 1 sea lion (now more than 24)

4 dead turtles - 1 sea lion (now more than 24)

BajaBlanca - 9-5-2012 at 05:24 PM

so, yesterday I was walking on the beach and saw a huge dead turtle - a couple hundred pounds (I think). I figured it had died a natural death.

then

Today I went for a walk on the beach and I saw another turtle down the other end of the beach. Same size if not bigger.

Is it possible it is the very hot waters of the Pacific that are killing these guys ? The water is really very hot these days.

edit: I added 2 more turtles n 1 sea lion from 9/6/12

[Edited on 9-7-2012 by BajaBlanca]

[Edited on 9-12-2012 by BajaBlanca]

bigmike58 - 9-5-2012 at 05:33 PM

The water temp was 89 in Mulege last month... We only saw tons of live tortuga's.

David K - 9-5-2012 at 05:33 PM

Hot Pacific??? Don't they thrive along tropical beaches in much warmer water than the Eastern Pacific's southbound current?

Loggerhead Sea Turtle:

This is the only sea turtle that can nest successfully outside of the tropics, but the summer surface water temperature must be over 68 degrees Fahrenheit. As with other sea turtles, females return to lay their eggs on or near the same beach where they hatched. Unlike other sea turtles, courtship and mating usually do not take place near the nesting beach, but rather along the migration routes between feeding and breeding grounds. Females may nest several times during a breeding season (April - September), laying as many as 190 soft, round white eggs per nest. The eggs incubate in the sand for 55 to 62 days. The incubation period is longer when the weather is cool, and there is evidence that cooler incubation temperatures produce more male hatchlings. Hatchlings emerge from the nest mostly at night. After the majority of the hatchlings appear at the surface of the nest, they start a frenzied race toward the surf and out to sea.

[Edited on 9-6-2012 by David K]

Blanca

DianaT - 9-5-2012 at 05:45 PM

Blanca, do you have Jamie Morales's phone number? If not, I will send it to you.

Call him. At this time, they have found over 45 dead Loggerhead turtles in the San Hipolito and La Bocana area and they say it happens every 3 years or so. They don't know why but they are sending some to La Paz to study. It is a really sad thing!

Jamie, his family, members of Costasavalje Bahia Asuncion, and the marines have been involved in this, including the burial of the turtles. It is a part of Jamie's job to record all the information about any dead turtle --- there are pictures on the Costasavalje, Bahia Asuncion facebook page of this recent mass death.

Whenever even a solo turtle is discovered, he is called and he records the information and he and his family bury the turtle.

[Edited on 9-6-2012 by DianaT]

55steve - 9-5-2012 at 06:43 PM

I've seen at least 3 sea turtles in the last 2 offshore trips heading south from San Diego.

shari - 9-5-2012 at 07:36 PM

I have noticed seagulls eating big lobsters at our little beach these days...hmmm..wonder why they are dying...warm water? This hot water will put the abalone in danger....it also kills all the kelp which is washing up on the beaches these days....we had such big kelp beds because of the cool water temps the last couple years...the circle of life.

bajaguy - 9-5-2012 at 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 55steve
I've seen at least 3 sea turtles in the last 2 offshore trips heading south from San Diego.

This sounds like a case for ramuma53 ...... :lol:

dtbushpilot - 9-5-2012 at 08:55 PM

We saw a dead tortuga floating on the surface while fishing last week in Asuncion, we saw a several dead lobos too, some on the beach and a couple in the water. Could have something to do with the big swell?........dt

[Edited on 9-6-2012 by dtbushpilot]

mulegemichael - 9-5-2012 at 09:25 PM

i don't want to appear to be the expert here, but with my experiences with wildlife in general, things die....i saw this as a coastal ranger in washington state when the grey whale population exploded...all of a sudden, there's a bunch of dead whales around...wha happened!!!!...things die......all of a sudden the sea lion population, that has been protected now for over 25 years, and the tortuga population, that has been protected for a couple of decades now, all of a sudden, rebound!!!!...and some of the older of the population die off...and they wash up on our beaches...and we see them and go, "oh my gawd, what's going on???".......simply nothing...things die....really....accept natural selection and that everything dies.......now....how maudlin is that????

UH..OH..YOU MEAN I MITE DIE!!! LOL,KIDDING

captkw - 9-5-2012 at 09:34 PM

bigmike58 - 9-5-2012 at 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
This sounds like a case for ramuma53 ...... :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 9-6-2012 at 07:01 AM

It looks as though cold water temperatures are more harmful to these animals than warm waters. I don't think 90 degree water temps are directly responsible for these deaths. It's likely that the warm waters have actually brought greater concentrations of these animals to the abreojos/asuncion area.

There are a number of parasites and viral infections that have been found to cause problems in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loggerhead_sea_turtle#Disease_a...

A similar occurence in Florida.
http://www.conserveturtles.org/velador.php?page=velart28

more stuff on diseases
http://nmlc.org/2011/07/sea-turtles-part-2-disease-predators...

Lots of literature on fibropapillomatosis.

David K - 9-6-2012 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mulegemichael
i don't want to appear to be the expert here, but with my experiences with wildlife in general, things die....i saw this as a coastal ranger in washington state when the grey whale population exploded...all of a sudden, there's a bunch of dead whales around...wha happened!!!!...things die......all of a sudden the sea lion population, that has been protected now for over 25 years, and the tortuga population, that has been protected for a couple of decades now, all of a sudden, rebound!!!!...and some of the older of the population die off...and they wash up on our beaches...and we see them and go, "oh my gawd, what's going on???".......simply nothing...things die....really....accept natural selection and that everything dies.......now....how maudlin is that????

Wonderful post... and full of 'common sense'... yes living things do die, get used to it! :light:

It really could be that simple!

BajaBlanca - 9-6-2012 at 05:58 PM

well, I have never seen dead turtles like now .... today there were 2 more and they were smaller. and a dead lobo which I think had just just died. It looked alive .... quite odd.

I know animals die but to have so many all at once is not normal. And yes, I seem to remember that this indeed happened once before - maybe 3 years ago.

I will let the wildcoast people know, but a phone number for Jaime would be great.

Mateo-Feo - 9-6-2012 at 06:00 PM

We saw a funky red tide north of you last week when we were there. Remember 3ish years ago when the red tide killed all those lobsters and sea life. Hope that doesn't happen again.

BajaBlanca - 9-6-2012 at 06:07 PM

the other detail that I forgot to mention is that there are NO exterior markings at all of a bite from a shark or slme discoloration that might indicate sickness. These beasts (for they are SO big) look perfectly healthy.

55steve - 9-6-2012 at 06:08 PM

The live turtles I'm seeing out of San Diego are loggerheads.

DianaT - 9-6-2012 at 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
well, I have never seen dead turtles like now .... today there were 2 more and they were smaller. and a dead lobo which I think had just just died. It looked alive .... quite odd.

I know animals die but to have so many all at once is not normal. And yes, I seem to remember that this indeed happened once before - maybe 3 years ago.

I will let the wildcoast people know, but a phone number for Jaime would be great.

There have been over 50 dead turtles all at the same time. --- Yes, call Jamie as it is not only a part of his job, he and Elide are very involved with the Bahia Asuncion Wildcoast.

Check your u2u for the numbers.

It will be interesting to see what the study reveals, if anything.

BAJACAT - 9-6-2012 at 10:30 PM

Blanca stop walking...we dont need more dead animals...unles they are in my table with flour tortillas.. :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 9-6-2012 at 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Wonderful post... and full of 'common sense'... yes living things do die, get used to it! :light:

It really could be that simple!

Someday your doctor will give you advice like that. We'll see how much 'common sense' you find in it.

David K - 9-6-2012 at 11:46 PM

What does that mean? Things do die, including us. Too bad the turtles didn't have a doctor, I guess you mean?

wilderone - 9-7-2012 at 08:34 AM

"when the grey whale population exploded...all of a sudden, there's a bunch of dead whales around...wha happened!!!!..."

Maybe the Navy and it's sonar experiments affected a larger number of whales.

"... and some of the older of the population [of turtles and sea lions] die off...and they wash up on our beaches..."

If 45 dead turtles is unusual - and it is - then something's "up". Might be a "natural" event - like storm turbulence, plankton bloom, disease, but something. Or maybe they got caught in tuna and shark fishermen's nets, know they're protected, and they had to discard dead turtles which drowned overnight.

In any event, I don't think they died from old age.

Skipjack Joe - 9-7-2012 at 08:39 AM

What it means is that you show little care or sympathy.

Yes everything dies. But you don't even know why these critters are dying. To just waive it off as a natural event is not very admirable IMO.

----------------------------------

I can just see Louis Pasteur setting up his lab for the study of pathogens.

"Nah", putting all the bottles away again, "What's the point - people die".

[Edited on 9-7-2012 by Skipjack Joe]

http://www.profepa.gob.mx/

Mulegena - 9-7-2012 at 09:36 AM

Has anyone contacted Profepa?

Perhaps this is for them to handle.

DianaT - 9-7-2012 at 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulegena
Has anyone contacted Profepa?

Perhaps this is for them to handle.

They are already involved with all of this and have been from the beginning.

Mulegena - 9-7-2012 at 09:46 AM

Felt they were, Diana. Thank you and thanks, Blanca. So sorry this is happening.

What IF ?

MrBillM - 9-7-2012 at 01:19 PM

This "OBVIOUSLY" expanding widespread dying is a SIGN from GOD that we ignore at our own peril ?

Quite possibly JUDGMENT is imminent.

REPENT and PREPARE.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-7-2012 at 01:36 PM

Very Good Thread; I would sure like to see someone do a Pacific Coast of Baja and the Sea of Cortez study for a period of several years.

The many years I spent in Loreto and the Cortez I observed the Swuid that came in nearly every three years, some of them would bench themselves on the Beach at Coronodo Island mostly. Then at one time I came upon 18 {I counted} dead Small Whales on the Beach near Port of Los Angeles. They had beached themselves and died.

Other types of Fish such as the Amberjacks would show up at different intervals.

A good place to see this is at Dela Fonso Island off of San Nicholas/Pulpito area./ You can also observe the large Bird life and the size of the birds controlling the spot where they nest.

Basicaly I think that it is just The Survival of the Fitest happening.

Skeet/Loreto

Searching for that Elusive Mexican Crustacean

MrBillM - 9-7-2012 at 02:06 PM

The Swuid are, perhaps, not a great example in this discussion since they are, I believe, now extinct.

I'm unaware of ANYONE (other than Skeet) reporting have seen the species in many years now.

Their demise was likely brought about by excessive suicidal Benching.

[Edited on 9-7-2012 by MrBillM]

BajaBlanca - 9-7-2012 at 03:42 PM

HERE GO SOME OF THE PHOTOS - PLEASE DISCONTINUE READING IF YOU MIGHT FIND THEM DISTURBING.

BajaBlanca - 9-7-2012 at 03:45 PM

THIS IS A FISH - I have no idea what kind - and yesterday there was a red, round fish with black head and black tail...

mtgoat666 - 9-7-2012 at 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
This "OBVIOUSLY" expanding widespread dying is a SIGN from GOD that we ignore at our own peril ?

Quite possibly JUDGMENT is imminent.

REPENT and PREPARE.

Global warming, spread agriculture runoff destroying rivers and oceans, deforestation, factory fishing decimating the once-great fishery stocks, human population over 7 billion...

Time for repenting is long passed, it's too late, we are doomed,.. recent news is that the rate of species extinction is higher than rate of new species evolving, and no one has the self-control to deal with global warming...

but with any luck, rattleless rattle snakes will accomplish population control and we will all be thanking skeet for solving the population problem that is root of all the worlds ills.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-7-2012 at 04:26 PM

Goat" You are so Wrong!!!
The world is evolving as it is. Survival of the Fitest!!

The fish left alone for a shor period of time come Back. The Nuts do not report this as it would stop some of their Dumb Donnors.

Sharks are really strong, Yellow/Fin are everywhere, do not believe all this Bull Puckey about the World going to Hell.

We are doing Great! Except for DOPERS, GREEDY FOLKS, and peop[le who want to live off of someone else's Efforts and Work.

It will work out and we will stay the Biggest Strongest, Nation in the World.

willardguy - 9-7-2012 at 04:34 PM

human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together.......mass hysteria!

dr. peter venkman

Skeet/Loreto - 9-7-2012 at 05:07 PM

Goat:

All of you Posters have to remember that goat is a Communistic/Socialist type Person who wants to rule the Country by having everyone to be the same.

The World is not coming to and end, just going through some changes.

keep your Faith, Hope!! We are the best, strongest nation in the World//////11

Good News from the Goat

MrBillM - 9-7-2012 at 09:08 PM

"...........Time for repenting is long passed, it's too late, we are doomed......."

Which MEANS we can quit worrying about it all since it will do no good ?

THAT's a relief.

NOW, we can go ahead and just live as we please while ignoring all the Prattle about Global Warming, Species Extinction, Blah, Blah, Blah.

And, Yada, Yada, Yada ?

Good to Know that we're DOOMED no matter what.

As often said "I Feel SO MUCH Better now that I've given up Hope".

As an Afterthought:

One positive aspect of widespread animal species extinction could be that MORE people would, of necessity without critters to consume, become VEGANS. Which would, of course, be greeted by the Veggie-Nuts with great shouts of Hallelujah, Kumbaya and Yabba-Dabba-Doo.

OR, whatever words to that effect are used in the Vegan Covens.

[Edited on 9-8-2012 by MrBillM]

Ateo - 9-7-2012 at 09:23 PM

Barf.

BajaBlanca - 9-8-2012 at 08:18 AM

So, in spite of the fact that Baja Cat thinks I need to quit walking LOL, I went out again this a.m. and the good news is: no new dead animals, but the old ones are creating a BIG stink (quite literally).

and, there was a red tide a couple weeks ago and now the beach is just stacke4d with seaweed. which we don't usually have at all here. flies flies everywhere.

shari - 9-8-2012 at 09:52 AM

yes Blanca...it may have something to do with a red tide that was spotted near this area....this will choke and kill some strange bottom fish too and some abalone is dying too which sucks.

It is the warm water that kills off the kelp...our beaches have alot of dead kelp too which brings the flies...dang...sure is nice for swimming now though eh!...not to mention the great fishing!

The Sea turned RED ?

MrBillM - 9-8-2012 at 12:06 PM

That ties in.

Happened to the Nile.

Pharaoh ignored it.

Watch for LOTS of FROGS.

And WORRY.

BajaBlanca - 9-8-2012 at 01:39 PM

not worrying just yet !

but yeah, the water is fantastic for swimming but the kelp is not liking it.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-8-2012 at 02:51 PM

The Turtles of the Sea of Cortez have always got my attention. I have a Hawksbill hanging on my office wall.

Years ago while living at San Nichalos I ate Turtle on several occasions as at that time it was not Illegal, if fact they were still serving it at the Bismark 2 in La Paz.
later I decided I would not again eat Turtle and have not since that time.

I flound that most of the time i caught a Turtle stranded on the Beach that there was a problem with the Turtle, I would put them back in the water but later would find them Dead floating nearby. There are still lots of things we do not know about Sea Life.

I have much confidence in the Sea of Cortez and think that it will survive.

We ALL Hope

MrBillM - 9-8-2012 at 06:59 PM

For the Sea Turtle population to thrive to the point where they're not only no longer in danger, but plentiful.

They were, after all, GREAT tasting.

It would be nice to see them on menus again.

Skipjack Joe - 9-8-2012 at 11:07 PM

Any sign of ramuma at those beaches?

After all, he has shown so much concern for these animals.

:lol:

shari - 9-10-2012 at 04:46 PM

Yesterday we found 6 dead loggerback turtles between Asunciona and Los choros beach and lot of cormorants dead and sick too...the one we rescued died shortly after. It will be interesting to find out why they are dying. On Facebook they are saying it is a natural phenomenon that happens every 3 years or so and this year it is our turn....while I sure love the hot water for swimming, the coops worry about the abalone and lobster stocks.

BajaBlanca - 9-10-2012 at 05:32 PM

Les remembered that some years ago Punta Abreojos lost much of their lobster in such a hot waters year, but for some reason, we, only 10 miles north, did not lose ours.

I do agree that there is an element of survival of the fittest, but it is sure sad to see turtles dying when their numbers are just not up enough yet.

I personally have never tried turtle.

Lobsters in Hot Water

MrBillM - 9-10-2012 at 05:56 PM

Now, There's a Tasty image.

Speaking of tasty critters, has anyone ever tasted Dolphin Steak ?

On the one hand, I've read that their meat doesn't taste good and on the other I've read that fishermen who've killed them as by-catch and eaten them love the taste.

??????

I suppose we'll never get to know firsthand.

Since there's only 102-103 days left for us all, anyway, it doesn't matter.

We're ALL in HOT Water, right ?

Guerrero Negro Verde reports on Facebook

Mulegena - 9-11-2012 at 09:29 AM

This great group in Guerrero Negro just posted a photo of a decomposing turtle carcass. It has a large bolus, a tumor, on its neck. Apparently this tumor has been shown to be the papaloma virus which is what probably killed this creature.

Here's the translation of their post and explanation:
"This is a turtle stranded on the shores of the North Pacific, the lump on the side of his neck papillomavirus. Studies continue to determine the health of the turtle population, whether or not it can be infectious to humans (do you want to risk it?), This species is closed and is therefore forbidden to marketing and the reason is very simple, is in danger of extinction.
All bodies have been found stranded buried to avoid health risk to humans and other predators (coyotes, etc..). Samples have been taken from some turtles. This particular specimen was found off the coast near Bahia Asuncion."

[Edited on 9-11-2012 by Mulegena]

BajaBlanca - 9-12-2012 at 03:22 PM

some friends of ours went along the estero dunes from punta abreojos to the entrance of the lagoon and counted 24 dead turtles. That stretch is just 11 miles.

Herpes Virus

Mulegena - 9-12-2012 at 03:41 PM

Again from Guerrero Negro Verde, the common denominator and probable cause of the widespread death of these gorgeous creatures. The link, in Spanish, is here: http://on.fb.me/SBLJbP.
The translation into English below:

Tumor growth in the tissue of the skin is called fibropapillomatosis. In humans these increases are due to the presence of a virus that has different manifestations ranging from small to large growths warts in different organs.

In recent years it has been observed, with increasing frequency, the presence of these growths on the skin and shell of sea turtles. No one knows for sure what causes them but we have seen that is related to the presence of a virus in other animals, so it is very likely that turtles also have this origin. However, it also might be related to marine pollution, as a turtle whose immune system is depressed may be more susceptible to disease.

It is likely that sea turtles eating contaminated algae produce a growth of herpes virus that is transmitted to the soft organs: eyes, skin, and other internal organs, producing fribropapilomatosis.
Early in the disease, the virus produces spots "salt and pepper" in the skin, dark and light spots on the skin of the loggerhead, that after a year they become tumors.

The herpes virus is transmitted by contact with secretions from the eyes (tears and crusting), nasal (mucus), or genitals. But also by contact with blood or open sores can spread the disease.
In turtles, it is likely that the disease will spread in the early stages when only external lesions are noted. In mammals the herpes virus produces lesions that are seen as vesicles on the mucous membranes of the mouth and genitals, but also can occur in the eyes and even the skin. The virus can cause abortions and neurological disorders producing severe pain in parts of the body and even paralysis.

A surprising feature of concern in the case of sea fibropapillomas is that the virus is very stable in the salt water, so it is likely to be present in the seawater around the turtle, particularly when confined indoors therefore no direct contact is necessary for the infected turtle exposed to the virus and for this reason, the handling of sea turtles must be done with extreme care and never with bare hands. [1]

[1] Research project: Klein, Paul A., L. Ehrhart, D. R. Brown, K. A. Bjorndal, S. Coberley, A. Bolten, R. H. Moretti, Ritchie, L. H. J. Herbst and K. Lackovich. 2000. Pathogenic, Molecular, and Immunological Properties of a Virus Associated with Sea Turtle Fibropapillomatosis. Phase II: Viral Pathogenesis and Development of Diagnostic Assays. Florida Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Unit, University of Florida. Gainsville, Fl http://aquaticcommons.org/1093/1/OCRKlein% 2C_P.A._2000.pdf