BajaNomad - Are these two routes passable?

Are these two routes passable?

56MM# - 10-10-2012 at 07:02 PM

Heading down to explore area west of La Ventana. Does anyone know if the road through Canada Jaquegel and Canada de Enmedio (old Pole Line Road) and the road through Canada Arroyo Grande and Canada Taraiso (ending at Choyall on Hwy 5) are passable in 4WD? I have read the Neil Johns article Doing the Pole Line Dance. Was wondering if the road conditions have changed.

I drove the road between the valley west of Sierra las Tinajas and El Jamau last May and found the area to be virtually untouched, a real gem for being so close to the border. 4WD was required.

Thanks.

Ken Cooke - 10-10-2012 at 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 56MM#
Was wondering if the road conditions have changed.

I drove the road between the valley west of Sierra las Tinajas and El Jamau last May and found the area to be virtually untouched, a real gem for being so close to the border. 4WD was required.

Thanks.

4WD is definitely required. I went through 11 months ago. It was a great trip! Yes, the route goes through.

The Basketball Hill section is still blocked with the boulders blocking a portion of the route. A go-around exists, though.

TMW - 10-11-2012 at 01:20 PM

I believe David K said there was a fence across arroyo Grande west of the SCORE race course turn off. A couple of miles further west the arroyo was blocked by rocks just west of the dam a couple of years ago. Big Foot could probably make it. Also note that the gate at Choyall is locked or was the last time I stopped.

David K - 10-11-2012 at 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I believe David K said there was a fence across arroyo Grande west of the SCORE race course turn off. A couple of miles further west the arroyo was blocked by rocks just west of the dam a couple of years ago. Big Foot could probably make it. Also note that the gate at Choyall is locked or was the last time I stopped.

Yes, while on a preliminary search for the Lost Diaz Grave last January, southbound in Arroyo Grande: once we passed the POLE LINE ROAD (which crosses Arroyo Grande, heading towards San Felipe from the Summit) we came to a cable stretched across the arroyo (perhaps to prevent Robby Gordon from making a short cut, ala Matomi?).

Here is with the Baja 1000 2011 course and modern roads added (to the gold mine's wells):

The letter D in Pole Line Road on the above map is where the cable was stretched across Arroyo Grande.

Taco de Baja - 10-11-2012 at 04:42 PM

A group of us went through the pole line road back in April 2012 in a 1996 Tacoma with a 3 inch lift, a newer model Tacoma 4 door, and a Toyota FJ. It was a fun run, but about at the limit of our stock vehicles and I broke a sway bar in the 1996 Tacoma. We had to do a little road repair and brush trimming, and the road is sometimes hard to see and follow through the washes.

Take it slow and a spotter helps in some areas.

see:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=59364

and

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=59334

[Edited on 10-11-2012 by Taco de Baja]

TMW - 10-11-2012 at 05:10 PM

I think it's time Ken put together another Pole Line Road trip only do it in reverse.

motoged - 10-11-2012 at 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I think it's time Ken put together another Pole Line Road trip only do it in reverse.

TW,
That stuff is hard enough to get through without doing it all in reverse..... :biggrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QHXeC3YUxc

Ken Cooke - 10-11-2012 at 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I think it's time Ken put together another Pole Line Road trip only do it in reverse.

Doing the trip in reverse would delete some of the more serious challenges on that route.

Pole Line Pix

Ken Cooke - 10-13-2012 at 10:07 PM

Some nice friends we met going into the trip - Huitzi and father Agustin.

Joe and his son drove this lightly modified LJ Wrangler. The rock sliders were pointing downward (wrong) to use as a step. This proved problematic on this route. Joe told me that he would reverse them when he returned to his place at Pete's Camp.

Very rocky Canon Enmedio

Huitzi's Rubicon is lifted 4" with 33" tires, and by this photograph, you can hardly tell that he is modified.

Basketball Hill - one of the toughest challenges of the route

Ken Cooke - 10-13-2012 at 10:12 PM

Huitzi and Agustin discuss options for tackling Basketball hill.

Here is where you feel like you are honestly going to flip over on your side and roll down the canyon (where I was standing when I took this photo).

By this point, you are home free...

Upper and Lower Jaquegel

Ken Cooke - 10-13-2012 at 10:16 PM

Dropping into Jaquegel looked like this. It is a tall dropoff you need to drive down into. The camber makes it less appealing. Did you remember to air down your tires?

One of the remaining poles

Clearing brush along the trail

This tricky fork must be walked up and determine which one is safest for you. We took the right fork as it has less camber . The dropoff is several hundred feet down, so there is little room for error.

Ken Cooke - 10-13-2012 at 10:19 PM

I like to call this "The Skateboard Ramp" because it resembles driving down a 1/4 pipe.

After crossing the Arroyo, you will see this sign indicating that you were a fool for traveling such a dangerous route and that no beer is available for miles! :lol:

In fact, this sign indicates that you made the connection as the road is washed out as you cross the lower Jaquegel. You will drive into the arroyo, and travel east - although, your instincts will try to lead you North across the crazy dropoffs and steep rocks. Traveling downstream will lead you to this sign, and to Hwy 5. Good luck!

56MM# - 10-25-2012 at 10:55 PM

OK, the route between La Ventana and Choyall goes through, but I would not recommend doing it. The area west of La Ventana at the southern tip of the Laguna Salada valley is being mined for water. While enroute to Canada Arroyo Grande, I passed two unattended large diesel generators running pumps and surrounded by fences. There was also a new dirt road containing electrical lines and a pipeline. I suspect the pumps were supplying water to the mines NNW of Crucero la Trinidad. A bartender in San Felipe told me they were mining gold in the mines.

Canada Arroyo Grande was easy to find: just head SSW towards the big opening. Once the wash narrowed with cliffs on each side, it was like being in Anza Borrego, very similar to Fish Creek Wash. Just prior to Arroyo Grande (as depicted in the Baja Almanac), there is a swamp. I saw no recent tire tracks going through this area. Although I didn't need 4WD, my truck got alot of pinstripes from the vegetation.

Arroyo Grande is an abandoned ranch with two old houses and a non-functioning windmill. Continuing SW, I climbed onto a plateau with abundant desert plant life. The roads were in good condition, likely from ranch vehicles.

Upon dropping into Canada Taraiso, I came upon three ranch houses that looked like they were recently occupied. About half a mile south of the ranch houses, there was a gate and fence that spanned the width of the wash. The gate was padlocked with a steel box around the padlock. Unlike the many fences I have encountered south of the border, this one had steel poles set in concrete and two one-inch horizontal pipes (welded to the poles) running along the bottom, the top pipe being around 18 inches above the ground. Obviously, the owners did not want anyone trespassing. It would have been nice to encounter such an obstacle earlier in the trip and not be locked in.

Without going into details, I proceeded down Canada Taraiso for a mile and encountered a ranch house with a rancher saddling a horse. There was another gate. This gate was unlocked. The rancher told me to proceed.

I encountered my last gate just before hitting Hwy 3. Although this one was sturdy and locked, it had barbed wire on each side, not steel pipes.

In summary, up until this point I never found myself locked in anywhere. It was always being locked out. Although a beautiful route, the locked gates and fences make this trip unsuitable.

One final note: it appears that more and more trails in Baja Norte are being closed off by the rancheros. I suspect this is due to the increase in dirt bikers and trophy truckers from Ensenada and Mexicali. Another era is coming to a close. It was nice while it lasted.

David K - 10-25-2012 at 11:32 PM

We also drove to the water wells (serving the distant gold mine) from La Ventana, then south in Arroyo Grande (on the 2011 Baja 1000 course). Just past the Pole Line Road crossing, there was a steel cable across Arroyo Grande last January. Did you see it and were you in Arroyo Grande at this point or was there another way to drop into the arroyo before in snaked into the mountain? Thank you!

56MM# - 10-26-2012 at 09:40 AM

I never encountered a cable strecthed across Arroyo Grande. Until one gets into the area with vertical cliffs, Arroyo Grande is just a very wide sand wash with alot of options to approach the narrow area. Once off the newly-cut roads for the wells and pipelines, I just pointed my truck towards the gap and headed up the wash, which seemed like it was a quarter mile wide in places. I never saw a dedicated "road" in Arroyo Grande until the cliffs.

TMW - 10-26-2012 at 10:58 AM

Interesting. What were you driving? So you did not use 4 wheel drive anywhere down Arroyo Grande to hwy 3?

David K - 10-26-2012 at 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 56MM#
I never encountered a cable strecthed across Arroyo Grande. Until one gets into the area with vertical cliffs, Arroyo Grande is just a very wide sand wash with alot of options to approach the narrow area. Once off the newly-cut roads for the wells and pipelines, I just pointed my truck towards the gap and headed up the wash, which seemed like it was a quarter mile wide in places. I never saw a dedicated "road" in Arroyo Grande until the cliffs.

From the wells south (in Arroyo Grande, a wide open wash there) you are in the 2011 Baja 1000 course, and between the SCORE arrows and whoops, there is no mistaking it. At the Pole Line road, Arroyo Grande is still wide, but between low cliffs and the Baja 1000 (turning left onto the Pole Line Road) climbs out of the wash to the left, heading towards San Felipe. Just ahead (south) is where there was a steel cable across the arroyo, as if to prevent racers or anyone from continuing up into the mountains in Arroyo Grande. This was last New Years weekend... 2 months after the Baja 1000.

56MM# - 10-26-2012 at 09:56 PM

95 4-Runner, mild suspension lift, 32" BFG Mud Terrains, Detroit Locker in the rear.

Until one gets to the swamp just before the actual Arroyo Grande Ranch (two abandoned buildings), the wash isn't narrow enough to string a cable.

Easy trip until you hit the first gate and fence. Have never seen anything this sturdy in a relatively remote area. It took five hours to get there from La Ventana, and I only had 2-1/2 hours of light left.

David K - 10-27-2012 at 08:45 AM

Well there indeed was a cable across the arroyo 10 months ago otherwise we wouldn't have turned back so soon. We weren't going as far as the ranch, only into the canyon just south of the Pole Line Road crossing. I am driving a 2010 4WD Off Road TRD Tacoma . When did you go?

Ken Cooke - 10-27-2012 at 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 56MM#
Another era is coming to a close. It was nice while it lasted.

This is real bad news. With all of the dreaming of new baja adventures, hearing this is upsetting.

TMW - 10-27-2012 at 11:12 AM

DK the cable may have just been a temporary thing either to keep racers and/or chaser out or maybe they were doing some work and did not want anyone messing with it.

I've been as far as the rocks.

Looking at Google Earth it shows a road going further west from above Choyall and coming out to hwy 3 about half way between Mike's Sky Rancho turn off and Trinidad.

56MM# - 10-27-2012 at 04:34 PM

I did the route on October 11th. Also have a picture of the first gate with my truck on the inside. Not sure how to post a 2 MB picture.

David K - 10-27-2012 at 07:15 PM

Use photobucket.com and use upload options and select 800 pixels for a reduced size but maximum Nomad size.

56MM# - 10-30-2012 at 08:16 AM

I uploaded six pictures to photobucket. How do I get them onto this site?

TMW - 10-30-2012 at 09:45 AM

When you put your curser over the pix there will be a list of items pop open, move your curser to the bottom one and left click on it. When you do it should say copied. Then go to the Nomad page you are repling on and paste it in the reply box.

TMW - 10-30-2012 at 09:49 AM

If you don't get the list of option after putting your curser on the pix then double click on the pix and it will open in a larger frame. To the right will be the list of options put your curser over the bottom one and left click. This is for the old Photobucket I have not used the newer version yet.

David K - 10-30-2012 at 04:43 PM

It is the image link called IMG Link

56MM# - 10-31-2012 at 07:00 PM

Locked in at the first gate I encountered.

56MM# - 10-31-2012 at 07:20 PM

Here's the swamp just before Arroyo Grande:

Rancho Arroyo Grande:

Up on the plain above Arroyo Grande:

Cerro La Noche looking northwest:

Road winding down to Canada Taraiso:

Locked in a few miles up from Choyall:

This is the beefiest ranch gate and fence I have seen in Baja.

Ken Cooke - 10-31-2012 at 09:40 PM

Is there a way around that gate in Choyall?

56MM# - 11-1-2012 at 06:55 AM

No. The fence stretches completely across the wash from cliff to cliff.

David K - 11-1-2012 at 07:11 AM

Any photos of the north section of Arroyo Grande canyon? Thanks!

TMW - 11-1-2012 at 10:30 AM

I wonder if there are any locked gates further west toward Trinidad or if the road is passable.

Taking an example from tonight's newscast

Ken Cooke - 11-1-2012 at 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 56MM#
No. The fence stretches completely across the wash from cliff to cliff.

TMW - 11-2-2012 at 11:32 AM

The designer probably failed trigonometry in which case they should have used bigger tires.

56MM# - 11-4-2012 at 05:49 AM

Heading down to San Felipe for a few days. Will post pictures of Arroyo Grande and some narrative when I get back.

David K - 11-4-2012 at 09:52 AM

Did some Google Earth flyovers last night and marked the Pole line road on both sides of Arroyo Grande...

All views have North at top...

David K - 11-4-2012 at 10:19 AM

HIGH VIEW:

WEST HALF:

EAST HALF:

ARROYO GRANDE CROSSING:

On 1962 Gulick Map:

Portezuelo is the summit.

[Edited on 11-4-2012 by David K]

TMW - 11-4-2012 at 11:20 AM

I thought the pole Line Road went to La Ventana not toward Borrego.

David K - 11-4-2012 at 11:24 AM

Nope, the telephone line poles went to San Felipe (for the radar station).. the modern access road to the well and Arroyo Grande comes from La Ventana...

David K - 11-4-2012 at 11:27 AM

After crossing the Sierra Pinta, it went probably in a straight line towards San Felipe, and not swing east to El Chinero as the 1962 map shows (unless it met up with the dirt road to San Felipe and followed it south)? There is just so little details on this, perhaps because it was top secret at the time?

willardguy - 11-4-2012 at 11:27 AM

david, could you show a modern day map showing the entire route of this pole line road?

David K - 11-4-2012 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
david, could you show a modern day map showing the entire route of this pole line road?

Okay, the pole line road serviced the installation of a telephone line between Ensenada and San Felipe constructed ca 1943 to facilitate communications with the American Radar Station at Punta Diggs, (San Felipe) installed to detect Japanese (or German?) attacks coming up the Gulf of California. The summit road (Portezuelo de Jamau) was built in 1943 for the telephone line.

As in other cases (such as the El Camino Real of the 1700's), roads built in the desert can be seen for many years and gives us a look into history. The area we call the Pole Line Road is very remote, even today... and some of the wooden poles are still standing... insulators have been collected... and the cobblestone roadbed still can be seen.

Once across the Arroyo Grande, the oleline road headed for San Felipe and the last trace of it can be seen north of Hwy. 3 and west of El Chinero.

willardguy - 11-4-2012 at 12:11 PM

good stuff, thanks david! :tumble:

TMW - 11-4-2012 at 03:38 PM

I never thought of the PLR running south, I assumed it when over to La Ventana then south following the hwy to San Felipe. Here are two routes going south. SCORE use to run the SF250 race up the CODE route then back down the 500/1000 route shown in red.

David K - 12-11-2013 at 10:46 AM

56MM# : would really like to see more of your photos... anyone else have photos driving in Arroyo Grande from the Pole Line Rd. crossing (and SCORE course) south into the first canyon? The cable stopped us 2 years ago, but 56MM# said it wasn't there anymore.

Ken Cooke - 12-11-2013 at 07:28 PM

Looking back up Jaquel Canyon ('Skateboard Ramp' obstacle)

Arroyo Grande (looking upstream)

Jaquegel

Arroyo Grande 2004 (looking towards Hwy 5)

Arroyo Grande (looking towards La Ventana)

Ken (and other Nomads)...

David K - 12-11-2013 at 08:17 PM

Here is the area of Arroyo Grande I would like to see photos of, the narrow lower canyon part... south of where the Pole Line Road (blue line) crosses it...

This bottom image is the canyon part of Arroyo Grande I would like to get into or see photos of...

Ken, in your Pole Line Road runs of the past, your GPS track or map you posted seems to leave the Pole Line Road west of Arroyo Grande and head north to Ejido Saldaña, then out to Hwy. 1? Thank you... Elizabeth and I tried to drive into the canyon a couple years ago, but a steel cable was stretched across the arroyo just south of the Pole Line Road crossing and where the SCORE course climbed out heading south.

Ken Cooke - 12-11-2013 at 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Ken, in your Pole Line Road runs of the past, your GPS track or map you posted seems to leave the Pole Line Road west of Arroyo Grande and head north to Ejido Saldaña, then out to Hwy. 1?

That's correct. There is a 'T' intersection where we travel north, drop into the arroyo and then onward to Ejido Saldaña.

Dropping into the arroyo

David K - 12-12-2013 at 01:01 PM

What Arroyo are you dropping into between the T intersection and Ej. Saldaña? Jaquegel?

[Edited on 12-12-2013 by David K]

Neal Johns - 12-12-2013 at 02:03 PM

The conditions of Arroyo Grande change over the years.
In the 1980 there was a cable a couple of feet high across just south of the road crossing Arroyo Grande. Later you could drive all the way to Rancho Grande. Sometime after that, the vegetation was too thick to drive through. Still later there was a dam upstream that blocked travel, then the dam washed out. Three or four years ago there was no nearby cable across south of where I crossed on the road. I have not been up Arroyo Grande south of the road for ten years. Tomorrows condition?
Neal Johns :?:

TMW - 12-12-2013 at 04:44 PM

Perhaps this will make it more clear. Ken normally takes the route north at the T. Probably because the route over to A. Grande was washed out for a couple of years or appeared to be until someone made a new climb out further east. In the 2007 run we took the route to A. Grande and out to KM90 on hwy 1. As an FYI the pipe line has it's own road south with access to hwy 5 at a couple of places.

TMW - 12-12-2013 at 04:56 PM

David K - 12-12-2013 at 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neal Johns
The conditions of Arroyo Grande change over the years.
In the 1980 there was a cable a couple of feet high across just south of the road crossing Arroyo Grande. Later you could drive all the way to Rancho Grande. Sometime after that, the vegetation was too thick to drive through. Still later there was a dam upstream that blocked travel, then the dam washed out. Three or four years ago there was no nearby cable across south of where I crossed on the road. I have not been up Arroyo Grande south of the road for ten years. Tomorrows condition?
Neal Johns :?:

Nice to hear that I wasn't the only one with 'cable issues'! :light:

David K - 12-12-2013 at 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Perhaps this will make it more clear. Ken normally takes the route north at the T. Probably because the route over to A. Grande was washed out for a couple of years or appeared to be until someone made a new climb out further east. In the 2007 run we took the route to A. Grande and out to KM90 on hwy 1. As an FYI the pipe line has it's own road south with access to hwy 5 at a couple of places.

Thanks Tom... We drove from K107 (La Ventana) jcn. west to the 'pumps' (wells), then south in Arroyo Grande (also the SCORE course here) to the Pole Line Road (PLR), just south of your pin 'A Grande'... that is where a cable blocked any further progress south. We drove out of the arroyo on the PLR southbound a couple of miles looking for another road back into A Grande, but no such luck.

As you have a T at Ken's T Junction, his group didn't come close to Arroyo Grande but instead went north in Cañada/ Arroyo Jaquegel. Thanks...

Now, still hoping for photos inside the canyon of Arroyo Grande, south of the Pole Line Road crossing! THANK YOU!

Ken Cooke - 12-12-2013 at 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
As you have a T at Ken's T Junction, his group didn't come close to Arroyo Grande but instead went north in Cañada/ Arroyo Jaquegel. Thanks...

Now, still hoping for photos inside the canyon of Arroyo Grande, south of the Pole Line Road crossing! THANK YOU!

This map made it much easier to see where I had traveled - not through the Arroyo Grande. You can see it south of the 'Bad Hill', but I have not photographed it. From the 'Bad Hill' you can see the deep fissure of an arroyo.

David K - 12-12-2013 at 07:40 PM

10-4

TMW - 12-13-2013 at 09:54 AM

Maybe I'll head down over New Years and take some pictures of Arroyo Grande. I have been past the dam but that was 6-8 years ago.