BajaNomad

New immigration rules

nobaddays - 11-8-2012 at 02:57 PM

Cabo Imigration office say new rules will be announced tomorrow and implemented Monday. Anyone else heard anything?

DENNIS - 11-8-2012 at 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nobaddays
Cabo Imigration office say new rules will be announced tomorrow and implemented Monday. Anyone else heard anything?


Don't believe anything they say until you see it happen.

I believe

John M - 11-8-2012 at 03:11 PM

Two days after the election - yea I believe

Mulegena - 11-8-2012 at 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by John M
Two days after the election - yea I believe
I think we're speaking of the new Mexican immigration visa rules.
I'm going with a friend to Inmigracion Santa Rosalia, BCS tomorrow and will report in.

BajaBlanca - 11-8-2012 at 03:35 PM

Les went to immigration yesterday and renewing his FM2 was exactly the same as every year for the past 4.

nobaddays - 11-8-2012 at 04:14 PM

Here is the link to the new rules
http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/mexican...

rhintransit - 11-8-2012 at 05:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nobaddays
Here is the link to the new rules
http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/mexican...


still clear as mud to me but after all these years that doesn't surprise me. I did drop by the Loreto immigration office to inquire about permanent/inmagrado status which I had heard was possible after three years but they hadn't a clue what I was talking about, conferred with the jefe and announced that that was only for 'special' people who have performed 'great service' to the country of Mexico and/or invested a great deal of money, etc. I was told that I still needed to complete all my years of FM2 status and that at the end of that time, at the end of the fourth renewal, I could apply for inmagrado.

but who knows what they will say tomorrow, after Nov 8th.

so, will all of us FM2/FM3 holders now be temporary residents? the 'retired' ambiguity is just that..augh

shari - 11-8-2012 at 06:04 PM

they are referring to nationalization...becoming a mexican citizen...some philanthropists or perhaps wealthy folk can fast track the citizenship wait....i think you may have meant imigrado after years of having your fm2...which isnt the same thing as mexican citizenship

dtbushpilot - 11-8-2012 at 06:13 PM

We are in the process of renewing our FM2's now, it is the same as before for now. They rejected my wife's renewal form because they said her signature didn't match her passport, we had to go back to La Paz and sign a new form. Hopefully this will be the only setback. With my luck there will be another delay then they will say that I have to start over because the rules have changed. Don't know what it will be like next year or how it will affect my bid for citizenship after my next renewal.....time will tell.

One thing you can always count on in MX is that you can not count on anything being like it was yesterday. I hope that having MX citizenship will protect me from future changes in MX immigration but "nunca sabe"......dt

dtbushpilot - 11-8-2012 at 06:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
they are referring to nationalization...becoming a mexican citizen...some philanthropists or perhaps wealthy folk can fast track the citizenship wait....i think you may have meant imigrado after years of having your fm2...which isnt the same thing as mexican citizenship



I'm not wealthy but we are spending a lot of money in MX, I helped an old lady cross the street, I smile and wave at everybody I meet.....might that be enough to qualify me for citizenship? Who do I talk to about a fast track?....

?NEW IMMIGRATION LAWS 2012?

LaTijereta - 11-8-2012 at 06:31 PM

This is what is coming off the mainland....
Maybe they can get this sorted out by the end of 2012..:cool:

NEW IMMIGRATION LAWS 2012 (from the www.chapala.com Web Board)

Submitted by Yucatan Expatriate Services on October 15, 2012

On September 28, 2012 a new set of Regulations of the Immigration Laws of Mexico were officially published. The new laws themselves were published and discussed over a year ago, but were not put into effect and the details were not released. Now details have been explained and the regulations will be in effect soon, so now is the time to let everyone know what has changed.

These new regulations will come into effect 30 working days from the date of publication (on or about November 12, 2012). The regulations regarding the General Law of Population on migratory control, verification and regulation will then be officially annulled, including the Manual on Criteria and Migratory Procedures of the National Institute of Migration through which the present visa designations of Non-Immigrant, Immigrant and Immigrated were defined. Anyone with a current visa (FM2 or FM3) can continue to use their current visa until the expiration date, at which point they will have to renew under one of the categories outlined below.

New Immigration Law Details

The following are the most important new details of this new act:

The Migratory status of “Non-Immigrant” (previously known as FM3), “Immigrant” (previously known as FM2) and Immigrated (Inmigrado) shall cease to exist and shall be replaced by visas that pertain to the ‘conditions of stay’. The new designations will be Visitor (Visitante), Temporary Resident (Residente Temporal) and Permanent Resident (Residente Permanente).

The present visa cards or booklets designating FM2 or FM3 status will cease to be valid and will be replaced by Visitor, Temporary Resident and Permanent Resident cards.

The newly published regulations establish the criteria, requirements and procedures for the following types of visas. We want to stress that the people at the immigration offices are getting trained as we write this article, so details about how these rules will be enacted and questions about discrepancies and changes are still unclear.


Visitor Visa without Permission to Engage in Lucrative Activities (Visa de visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas)

This visa may be granted for up to ten years. The applicant may be granted this visa if they can demonstrate one or more of the following circumstances:

-They have sufficient economic solvency

-They are a frequent traveler to Mexico

-They are a researcher, scientist, humanist, artist, athlete, prestigious journalist (national or international) or are another type of promiment person

-They are the spouse, concubine or equivalent, child, parent or sibling of a Mexican or a temporary or permanent resident, but are not intending to reside in the country

-They are the spouse, concubine or equivalent, child, parent or sibling of a diplomatic or consular official accredited in Mexico who are ordinary passport holders

-Being a supervisor of a foreign company with a subsidiary in the country or executive staff of subsidiaries or sales offices of Mexican companies abroad.

A non-Mexican who obtains this visa may request the issuance of the same for their spouse, concubine or equivalent and their children, if the children or adolescents are under their legal custody or if they are over-age but still in their legal custody. In this case, the applicant must prove the relationship and they must also prove that they have sufficient economic solvency to support those dependents, and that they are frequent travelers.

This visa will be issued for those non-Mexicans interested in being in the country for no more than 180 days.


Temporary Resident Visa (Visa de residente temporal)

The temporary resident visa is issued to a non-Mexican who declares his/her intention to remain in Mexico for a period exceeding one hundred and eighty days and up to four years. The applicant must demonstrate one of the following:

-Sufficient economic resources to pay for accommodations and meals during their stay in Mexico

-Participation in a scientific research project or sample collection in Mexico or the territorial waters of Mexico, after having obtained the appropriate authorizations from the appropriate national authorities (e.g., INAH, etc.)

-Family relationship to a Mexican, temporary or permanent resident

-An invitation from an organization or a public or private institution in Mexico to participate in any activity for which they will gain no income. The invitation should be on letterhead and indicate the activity that the applicant will be performing, the duration and the address of the workplace and the person or company accepting responsibility to pay for their travel and living expenses. Otherwise, the applicant must demonstrate sufficient economic solvency to cover his/her living expenses during his/her stay in the country

-Ownership of real estate in Mexico with a value equivalent to the amount stipulated in the “General Administrative Provisions” which will be issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and has not yet been published in the Mexican Official Gazette

-Ownership of investments in Mexico that consist of:

Capital stock in Mexican companies in accordance with laws and other legal provisions, with a value that exceeds the amount provided for in the “General Administrative Provisions” (to be issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and published in the Mexican Official Gazette)

Movable or fixed assets used for commercial or business in accordance with laws and other legal provisions, whose value exceeds the amount provided for in the “General Administrative Provisions” (to be issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and published in the Mexican Official Gazette)

Development of economic and business activities in the country in accordance with laws and other legal provisions that generate formal jobs in terms of the “General Administrative Provisions” (to be issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and published in the Mexican Official Gazette)

The temporary resident visa will be valid for one hundred and eighty calendar days with a single entry. The applicant must apply for the resident card within the first thirty calendar days after their entry into Mexico. After 4 years with the temporary resident visa, the applicant can apply for the permanent resident visa.


Permanent Resident Visa (Visa de residente permanente)

This visa will be issued to a non-Mexican who intends to enter the country in order to reside indefinitely. The applicant must demonstrate one of the following situations:

-Family relationship to a Mexican or permanent resident of Mexico

-Retirement status, with sufficient monthly income to cover living expenses during their stay in Mexico. Currently, “sufficient monthly income” is 250 times the minimum salary in Mexico city for FM3 and 400 times the minimum salary for FM2. (The minimum daily salary at this writing is $62.33 pesos. That would make the minimums for visas $15,582.50 pesos and $24,932.00 pesos ($1215.35 USD and $1944.61 USD at $12.82 pesos to the USD).)

-Meeting the categories and the minimum score required to enter through the Point System under the “General Administrative Provisions” (to be issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and published in the Mexican Official Gazette)

-That he or she has been granted political asylum by the Mexican government

The permanent resident visa will be valid for one hundred and eighty calendar days with a single entry. The applicant must apply for their resident card within the first thirty calendar days after his or her entry into Mexico.

The Point System for Mexican Visas

There are eight basic categories in the selection criteria of the new Point System for eligibility for Permanent Residency. It is Mexico’s hope that these criteria will attract foreign investors or people with high competency in areas such as science, technology, sports, arts and humanities or any other skills that strengthen and promote the development and competitiveness of Mexico.

The selection criteria may include, but are not limited to, the following:

-Education level

-Work experience in areas of interest to the country that have high demand and low supply

-Work experience in other areas

-Investor

-Skills in science and technology

-Acknowledgements and international awards

-Spanish language proficiency

-Knowledge of Mexican culture

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs will issue the categories in the “General Administrative Provisions” which will be published in the Mexican Official Gazette. This will also include the weighting of points corresponding to each category, as well as the minimum score required to enter through this route.

The Ministry will review the Point System every three years, and if necessary will publish in the Mexican Official Gazette any addendums, modifications or deletions of categories. They may also change the weighting of points corresponding to each category, as well as the minimum scores and any other information in the Point System.

A non-Mexican who wishes to enter the country through the Point System must apply for visa at the consular office, attaching a completed pre-qualification form, accompanied by the documents proving that they meet the requirements of the category.

The non-Mexican holder of a temporary resident visa or temporary work visa who wishes to remain in Mexico when their visa runs out may request a change to the status of permanent resident status via the Point System.

Other Visa-Related Considerations

A visitor visa application for adoption and temporary resident student can in no case be made directly to the Institute.

Consular offices may issue a replacement temporary resident visa, the temporary student resident visa, permanent resident visa, visitor visa for adoption procedures and visitor visas without permission to engage in lucrative activity for humanitarian reasons to the non-Mexican holder of that visa. They may do so if the visa holder has had their visitor or resident card stolen, lost or destroyed. Non-Mexicans must process their replacement request within the first thirty calendar days after the loss of the card.

The Immigration Institute (INM) shall establish in the General Administrative Provisions which will soon be published in the Mexican Official Gazette, the features, form and design of the cards, and other immigration documents.

The card that certifies the status of temporary resident stay may be valid for one, two, three or four years, starting from when the non-Mexican was given that particular status.

When the temporary resident obtains a work permit, the card certifying their status will have validity for as long as the job lasts.

The holder of the temporary resident card may, within thirty calendar days prior to its expiration date, request the visa’s renewal for up to a total of four years.

Children of foreign nationality under the age of three can only obtain a resident card with a validity of one year, until they are three years old.

The card certifying the status of temporary resident will give the holder the right to make multiple entries and exits from the country.

The permanent resident card will be valid for an indefinite term, but Non-Mexicans who are minors and older than three will have to renew their permanent resident card every four years until they are of legal age.

The card certifying the status of permanent resident will give the holder the right to make multiple entries and exits of the country and to maintain a work permit once they are of legal age.

A non-Mexican who is outside the country when their visa status expires, may enter the country with it up to fifty-five calendar days from its expiration. Within fifty-five calendar days, no penalty will be applied and the application for renewal must be submitted within five working days after admission into Mexico. Entry into Mexico will not be allowed for non-Mexicans holding a document that is more than fifty-five calendar days past its date of expiration.

Non-Mexicans in the possession of a temporary student resident card can obtain a work permit if they are doing postgraduate or advanced classes, or research.

The owners of a visa as visitors for humanitarian activities and permanent residents have an implicit work permit.

Temporary and permanent residents must notify the INM, within ninety calendar days following the occurrence, of any changes in marital status, nationality, residence or workplace.

Any visa applications that are pending on the date that these regulations go into effect shall be completed in accordance with the provisions in force at the time of the start of the application.

DENNIS - 11-8-2012 at 06:35 PM

:lol: WatidIsay?? :lol:

rhintransit - 11-8-2012 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
they are referring to nationalization...becoming a mexican citizen...some philanthropists or perhaps wealthy folk can fast track the citizenship wait....i think you may have meant imigrado after years of having your fm2...which isnt the same thing as mexican citizenship


yes, I did. oops and thanks. perhaps I wasn't clear in what I was asking the lady in migration. so we all just stay on the same old same old path, different name, ten years and years to imigrado?
only asking because I'm due to re-up soon.
and am buying a house, but think one still needs a fidio. until if/when one becomes a Mexican citizen.

[Edited on 11-9-2012 by rhintransit]

Riom - 11-8-2012 at 11:46 PM

The "new" immigration law was passed in 2011. The rules for it were published at the end of September 2012, my article was: Mexico Immigration Law Rules.

Today (8th Nov) the actual processes and procedures were published in the DOF (official gazette). This is the first the INM offices (or anybody) will have seen of them, so anything INM have said before this would be guesswork. See my San Felipe News short report.

I'm working on digesting all the facts and checking how others interpret it and should be able to publish a detailed article on San Felipe Life soon. As expected, new applicants will have to apply from outside Mexico, with higher income requirements (but some other options also). And as reported before, a much, much simpler route to permanent residence for those with FM2/3.

Rob

Mulegena - 11-9-2012 at 04:35 PM

Just back from Sta. Rosalia BCSur with a friend who wished to renew.

This is a summation of her experience:

She was allowed to re-up with what will be the equivalent of her FM-3 which she's held for one year, a "temporary resident non-lucrative" visa.

She asked to "step up" to a "permanent resident non-lucrative" status, the equivalent of what we know as an FM-2. Her request was not entertained, categorically denied, a big definitive NO.

He accepted her paperwork and photo and $300Pesos "for the office" and told her to come back in a week as he did not know how much to charge her for it, i.e. how much she needed to pay at the bank.

He did say that she is renewing under the old laws. They are not implenting the new rules just yet. He looked haggard, beyond dog-tired and strung out. In his mind he probably was cursing the authorities for enacting all these ambiguous changes that no one understands.

He spent alot of time reading from an official webpage. I tried looking over the counter and reading over his shoulder to see the address, but to no avail. However, not to be undone I did get two official web addresses while I was in the office (don't ask how I did it; I'll never tell).

Check out www.segob.gob.mx and www.gobiernofederal.gob.mx

I have to renew my visa around the first of the year.
I'll dig up this thread then and let you know my experience.

M - 11-9-2012 at 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LaTijereta
This is what is coming off the mainland....
Maybe they can get this sorted out by the end of 2012..:cool:

NEW IMMIGRATION LAWS 2012 (from the www.chapala.com Web Board)

GOODNESS, THANK YOU for such a detailed, amazing post. AWSOME!

I don't wish to become a MX citizen at this time. I want to be very, NON-noticed. I NEED to keep my U.S. disability payments to live on, until I'm fixed, yet, I can only afford MX to live. I have a permanent U.S. street address for mail, documents etc. but, I want to live in MX, going back and forth to conduct business. What if I just lay low? don't draw attention and claim my rental is just a vacation retreat? Besides l;ocal police, WHO would know I was living there? What would be, my arguement? defense? Explanation to officer? Down the line, when I am less preyed upon by my Ex, I would like to toe the line and be legal as should be. But now, I simply have no time or mental space to deal with it. Advise?
Thanks in advance to my amigos/as
BIG HUGS,
M

Hook - 11-9-2012 at 07:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Les went to immigration yesterday and renewing his FM2 was exactly the same as every year for the past 4.


Not unexpected as the new rules are supposed to take effect on Nov. 12, from what I've read.

New Rules

Bajajorge - 11-10-2012 at 10:25 AM

http://www.sanfelipelife.com/post/The-New-Immigration-Law-an...

Hang on folks, this is probably get more and more interesting as the days go by.:?::?::?:

LaTijereta - 11-10-2012 at 01:09 PM

It would be interesting to see if the INM offices over here in Baja will follow this fee structure: (in pesos):cool:

Visa fees from Article 80, Ley Federal de Derechos (D.O.F. Sept. 4, 2012):
Artículo 8o. Por la expedición del documento migratorio que acredita la condición de estancia se
pagarán derechos conforme a las siguientes cuotas:

I. Visitante sin permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas …………………… $295.00
II. Visitante con permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas ……………… $2,350.00
III. Visitante Regional ……………………………………………………………………………… $295.00
IV. Visitante Trabajador Fronterizo ………………………………………………………… $295.00
V. Visitante con fines de adopción ………………………………………………………… $2,280.00
VI. Residente Temporal:
a). Hasta un año ………………………………………………………………………………. $3,130.00
b). Dos años …………………………………………………………………………………$4,690.00
c). Tres años …………………………………………………………………………………$5,940.00
d). Cuatro años ……………………………………………………………………………… $7,040.00

VII. Residente Permanente …………………………………………………………… $3,815.00

The Mexican Embassy provided other details, including the specific requirements for how to import household goods into Mexico. Read more details at the end of this article.



Further information coming forward:

http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/2012/11/08/updated-mexican-i...

Riom - 11-10-2012 at 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LaTijereta
It would be interesting to see if the INM offices over here in Baja will follow this fee structure: (in pesos)


They should do, those are the current fees in force. I posted a summary in English with conversions and per year amounts a while back at:
http://www.sanfelipelife.com/post/New-Immigration-Fees

After reading the new manuals in detail, there's not much that has been properly specified on the transition arrangements (what happens to those with existing FM3 etc).

I'm travelling at the moment so don't have time to research fully but I've posted some details of what is supposed to happen (rather than how it happens) at:
The New Immigration Law and Your FM2 or FM3.

Comments from those who are converting their paperwork right now would be very helpful to provide complete information for others, I won't be able to do mine until the end of the month.

Hook - 11-11-2012 at 06:58 AM

Rob, within your link entitled The New Immigration Law and Your FM2 or FM3, you state that:

(It's unclear how this will affect owning foreign cars, in the parts of Mexico outside the border zone.)

This statement implies that there are CURRENTLY exemptions for owning a foreign car if you live in a border zone and possess an FM2. Is that true? If so, what are the border zones?

This purported requirement to import your vehicles if on an FM2 is the single most onerous thing that keeps me from applying for an FM2.

gnukid - 11-11-2012 at 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Rob, within your link entitled The New Immigration Law and Your FM2 or FM3, you state that:

(It's unclear how this will affect owning foreign cars, in the parts of Mexico outside the border zone.)

This statement implies that there are CURRENTLY exemptions for owning a foreign car if you live in a border zone and possess an FM2. Is that true? If so, what are the border zones?

This purported requirement to import your vehicles if on an FM2 is the single most onerous thing that keeps me from applying for an FM2.


Up til now, FM-2 restrictions on US plated cars does not apply to Baja according to Aduana. Keep in mind this is an issue that can not be enforced by police, INM or military, it is an aduana issue so don't expect to get answers from other sources. At least, there hasn't been enforcement of the restriction by Aduana in Baja. This could change or remain equally vague in the future. Equally uncertain is the restriction on number of vehicles which is limited to one per person/visa. Even inmigrados have been allowed to drive us plated cars without issue. This may or may not change or be equally vague.

[Edited on 11-11-2012 by gnukid]

Hook - 11-11-2012 at 07:44 AM

Thanks, gnukid.

Are you basing this on conversations you have had with Aduana staff (the part about Baja being exempt) or have you seen it written on a Mexican govt website?

Thanks, again. You are a great source of information here. And a realist, too, with statements like

"This may or may not change or be equally vague."

Man, that's Mexico all right...........

gnukid - 11-11-2012 at 07:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Thanks, gnukid.

Are you basing this on conversations you have had with Aduana staff (the part about Baja being exempt) or have you seen it written on a Mexican govt website?

Thanks, again. You are a great source of information here. And a realist, too, with statements like

"This may or may not change or be equally vague."

Man, that's Mexico all right...........


I have asked carefully, aduana has said we know of no requirement or enforcement of such an issue, FM-2 holders can drive their us plated car in baja. But I know that corrupt police think they can use this ruse as a way to intimidate people and claim they can seize the vehicle, but actually they can't or at can't for very long. Let's see what happens today. I will report back any new information.

Let's keep in mind the point of this reform is to make it possible for Mexicans to return home and for foreigners to easily retire or move to Mexico for investment so one would assume they will therefore allow these foreigners (many who previously were mexicans but lost citizenship temporarily while away) to return with the US plated car as well as social security retirees.


This reminds me of a story, I was working on my car in front of a friends house, and there were many cars lined up parked in front. We were all fixing things and sharing each others support so it appeared I was working on a bunch of cars and sometimes driving them. Eventually in the evening I drive the half block to buy some beer and was pulled over by local crazy drunk cops for having too many US cars on a FM-2. I remained calm and they escalated with guns drawn and insisted on seizing the vehicle and me to take me to the police station to hold the vehicle apparently I was supposed to freak out and call for money. Riding in the back of the truck the junior cop explained I had too many cars and a fm-2. I laughed. We ate tomatoes from a crate. After two hours sitting in the police station in San Juan De Los Plannes listening to me discuss Hernan Cortez and his indian wife and their dreams and influence on Baja culture, food and architecture , the problem with celebrating thanksgiving, and the resulting confusing identity of Baja Mexicans, the corruptos buzz wore off the they dejectedly suggested I go back home and forget the whole thing.



[Edited on 11-11-2012 by gnukid]

Hot Gnuz right off the press!!

Mulegena - 11-11-2012 at 10:08 AM

I like your style, Gnu.
Oh, yes, I likes your style!!

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Quote:

This reminds me of a story...I remained calm and they escalated with guns drawn and insisted on seizing the vehicle and me to take me to the police station to hold the vehicle apparently I was supposed to freak out and call for money. Riding in the back of the truck the junior cop explained...and... I laughed. We ate tomatoes from a crate. After two hours sitting in the police station in San Juan De Los Plannes listening to me discuss Hernan Cortez and his indian wife and their dreams and influence on Baja culture, food and architecture , the problem with celebrating thanksgiving, and the resulting confusing identity of Baja Mexicans, the corruptos buzz wore off the they dejectedly suggested I go back home and forget the whole thing.



[Edited on 11-11-2012 by gnukid]


[Edited on 11-11-2012 by Mulegena]

Scorpimon - 11-13-2012 at 06:09 PM

Residencia Permanente Visa's obtained today at Mexican Consulate in Denver.

As an update to the new immigration regulations, here is a summary of my experience today at the Mexican Consulate here in Denver Colorado. The new software was still being downloaded into their computers when we arrived but decided to wait around to see if the system would work. The nice consulate lady indicated that she would like to use our information to see if the system will work. We provided all the paperwork needed for the previous FM3 plus the financial requirements needed for the new Residencia Permanente Visa. No hassle on the paperwork at all, just one copy of everything as usual. Six hours later we had the new Residencia Permanente Visa's in our USA passports. The six hours was due to getting the system up and running, learning their new jobs and the system interface with Mexico City. Other than a long day it was a positive experience with the consulate staff very friendly and helpful. As with the FM3 we now have 180 days to enter Mexico one time and then finish the process locally at the Loreto immigration office. We will see what happens in December when we get down there. The cost to process the Visa's was $36 each.

Ernie

gnukid - 11-13-2012 at 06:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Scorpimon
Residencia Permanente Visa's obtained today at Mexican Consulate in Denver.

As an update to the new immigration regulations, here is a summary of my experience today at the Mexican Consulate here in Denver Colorado. The new software was still being downloaded into their computers when we arrived but decided to wait around to see if the system would work. The nice consulate lady indicated that she would like to use our information to see if the system will work. We provided all the paperwork needed for the previous FM3 plus the financial requirements needed for the new Residencia Permanente Visa. No hassle on the paperwork at all, just one copy of everything as usual. Six hours later we had the new Residencia Permanente Visa's in our USA passports. The six hours was due to getting the system up and running, learning their new jobs and the system interface with Mexico City. Other than a long day it was a positive experience with the consulate staff very friendly and helpful. As with the FM3 we now have 180 days to enter Mexico one time and then finish the process locally at the Loreto immigration office. We will see what happens in December when we get down there. The cost to process the Visa's was $36 each.

Ernie


Historically this sort of thing has not gone well since the INM office where you arrive requires to provide all the current info including updated proof of income if required and much more. Generally they'll find fault with the foreign (US) made visa and yo'll have to get new photos and do it again, regardless you'll pay the same fees in Mexico you would have otherwise resulting in only frustration and expense for your trouble. That said, its still a worthwhile experiment and I appreciate you posting your experience. I was thinking of visiting the US Mexican Consulatate myself just to see if they would renew my visa as well and hear what they had to say, since its relatively empty in the US citizens lineup area. FYI to others they usually close at 1pm in the USA. Please post more recent experiences since Nov 12th.

Update: apparently filing in the US at the Mexican consulate for first timers (which could be interpreted as everyone since everyone is on a new program) is required.

[Edited on 11-14-2012 by gnukid]

msteve1014 - 11-14-2012 at 06:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Scorpimon
Residencia Permanente Visa's obtained today at Mexican Consulate in Denver.

As an update to the new immigration regulations, here is a summary of my experience today at the Mexican Consulate here in Denver Colorado. The new software was still being downloaded into their computers when we arrived but decided to wait around to see if the system would work. The nice consulate lady indicated that she would like to use our information to see if the system will work. We provided all the paperwork needed for the previous FM3 plus the financial requirements needed for the new Residencia Permanente Visa. No hassle on the paperwork at all, just one copy of everything as usual. Six hours later we had the new Residencia Permanente Visa's in our USA passports. The six hours was due to getting the system up and running, learning their new jobs and the system interface with Mexico City. Other than a long day it was a positive experience with the consulate staff very friendly and helpful. As with the FM3 we now have 180 days to enter Mexico one time and then finish the process locally at the Loreto immigration office. We will see what happens in December when we get down there. The cost to process the Visa's was $36 each.

Ernie


There were always mixed reports of how well this worked out for people. The office you go to in Baja seems to be the big factor in how smooth it goes. Please report back when you are finished. We are all hoping for the best.

Hook - 11-14-2012 at 07:06 AM

Scorpimon, how many previous renewals of an FM3 had you had, before you applied for and apparently were cleared for Permanent Resident status? Did the number of renewals seem to play into your eligibility into getting the PR status? Was the decision to proceed with PR status made by you or the consulate staff?

I assume that when you get to your Loreto office is when you will pay far more than 36.00 US, correct? Looks like it will be somewhere around 3100 pesos.

gnukid - 11-14-2012 at 07:51 AM

You may want to read the law. It is possible to get Pemanente Residente as a first timer or as a move from any previous status. It depends on your case and qualification points, proof of investment and income and completion of application. That is why you hear people say that previous years don't matter, becuase in some cases they don't. Sufficient income and investment plus other qualificantions is a direct path to permanente residente. I have done research over the last 24 hours and while it's messy, the laws exist to help anyone get permanent or tempoary status or simply be a visitor if you don't have income to qualify for residente temporal or residente permanente, you can turn to your local Mexican Consulate for your country of origin for help and to apply, in cases where you are changing levels it is generlly encouraged/required.

Here is the direct INM help line

01-800-004-6264

http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5270615&fecha=...

For Permanente Residente
Under Tramite 7

V. Presentar los documentos que acrediten alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
a. Jubilados o pensionados:
1. Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos doce meses, o
2. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.

Hook - 11-14-2012 at 08:49 AM

Yes, gnukid, I know how the law READS. I'm looking for physical confirmation that someone has actually jumped to PR status w/o four prior years of FM3.

Of course, that was at a consulate. I wont be going that route.

LaTijereta - 11-14-2012 at 09:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
I assume that when you get to your Loreto office is when you will pay far more than 36.00 US, correct? Looks like it will be somewhere around 3100 pesos.


Looks to be:
VII. Residente Permanente………………………… $3,815.00

"Permanent residency can be granted after just 4 years of Temporary Residency vs. the previous 5 year FM2 requirement." I also understand that “the time on a FM-3 does not count. Time on a FM-2 does count towards Permanent Resident.“
All to be sorted out at a INM office near you...

Scorpimon - 11-14-2012 at 06:16 PM

Hook

I had an FM3 from about 2006-2008 but cancelled it in Loreto due to work not allowing us to get down to Baja for an annual renewal (always late and had to pay late fees), and a move to Baja was not in the near future. So I do not have a current FM3 and went straight to the Residencia Permanante status (at least that is what was listed on the paperwork and what is stamped in my US passport). What happens in Loreto in December is the big unknown.

The number of renewals of an FM3 did not have anything to do with applying for the PR in the states. The FM3 was not an option. The only choice I had was applying for the temporary or permanent residence status, and since I met the permanent financial qualifications I thought that was the way to go.

Yes I will have to pay the main fee in Loreto. The $36 paid at the consulate was just for their part of the filing process. I will do a follow-up after a visit to Loreto INM.

larryC - 11-14-2012 at 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Yes, gnukid, I know how the law READS. I'm looking for physical confirmation that someone has actually jumped to PR status w/o four prior years of FM3.

Of course, that was at a consulate. I wont be going that route.


Hook
I had an fm3 (no inmigrante) for 2 years and went up to an fm2 (Inmigrante). I have had it for 3 years now. Is that what you are talking about?
Larry

I have a question

M - 11-14-2012 at 06:52 PM

Aboutr immigration laws but to keep the tr's happy, I will proceed on the QA board.
BIG HUGS
:smug:M

rhintransit - 11-14-2012 at 07:01 PM

it's all speculation until folks actually go thru the drill here. I stopped in the Loreto office (pre-Nov 8) and asked about the Permanent Resident status. the nice lady hadn't a clue and went back to talk with the jefe. came back and said it would still take 10 years, then apply. not what the law says and not necessarily what will happen now, but basically don't count on the local offices to have it straightened out soon. there are a number of lawyers putting forth their interpretation of the laws. my approach (due in January) is to see what the locals are asking for then...and if I don't agree with that, pick one of those lawyers to discuss it with INM officials here. I have been told that most everything will be done on line, collected locally, sent to Mexico City for processing, and the card (or whatever) will be issued from Mexico. also that it's good I'm around so much because the anticipated wait for the card (or whatever) is five to six months. having the application accepted papers in hand will most likely be sufficient in the interim.

gnukid - 11-14-2012 at 08:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Yes, gnukid, I know how the law READS. I'm looking for physical confirmation that someone has actually jumped to PR status w/o four prior years of FM3.

Of course, that was at a consulate. I wont be going that route.


I agree that it's not worthwhile to get info off heresay on a bulliten board however if you are looking for recent anecdotal information it does exist. Do a search on Mexican Immigration and set the dates to the last 24 hours and you'll get tons of recent reports. I reported to you the recent reports over the last 24hours, and I see you have posted on other boards too.

Here is a simple summary, anyone changing status in any way (from FMM to Temporal Residente or to Permanente Residente) MUST apply at their home Mexican consulate, you must leave the country and return. Of course there will be exceptions to this requirement to leave to apply for status change for valid holders of current visas who are qualified but those will be exceptions.

The laws are translated and there are updated operating orders available but those too are written in spanish and if you can't or are unwilling to translate them, you're at a disadvantage.

Temporal Residente status is the most common form for those people who wish to stay more than 6 months.

There is a qualification point system which is described for each option, qualification points are defined for income level, investment level (home value), ability to speak Spanish, knowledge of history, professional level (computer or biological scientist), significnt relationship with a Mexican such as living with girlfriend/boyfriend or marriage and children.

The formulas are clearly spelled out for qualification with formulas, one simply must present your qualifications 6-12 months of income and balance and home title and valuations plus other demonstratable qualifications such as your degree.

I'll post more links to translations for you.

gnukid - 11-14-2012 at 09:07 PM

Don't forget, you must apply online prior to visiting an office even if its wrong. And in most cases you are encouraged/required to apply at your local home country Mexican consuate. It's helpful for people who are concerned or uncertain about their immigration application approach to read the new laws and choose an approach and copy the section down and prepare the proof of requirements, decide which path is best for themselves and then tell the Mexcian Consulate and INM clerk they are going down that defined path and stick to the law. Then you can point out that income verification is or is not required or previous years are or are not required or leaving and returning is or is not required in your case as defined by the law. there are many forumals for income etc... Otherwise you are at the mercy of a clerk who may not be skilled at reading the law or doing the math or counting qualification points.

Here are a few sources of discussion about this issue:

http://www.sanfelipenews.com/post/mexico-immigration-forms-a...

http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=182...

http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5270615&fecha=28/09/2012

Online application must be completed prior to visiting Consulate or INM
http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Solicitud_de_Estancia

http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/

http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/living-...

http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?forum=4;...

Recent updated guidelines

Consulates and DF rule over INM regional offices, but local offices can submit exceptions and waivers...
http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_to_doc.php?codnota=5277358
http://dof.gob.mx/nota_to_doc.php?codnota=5276968
http://dof.gob.mx/nota_to_doc.php?codnota=5276964


Mexico Immigration Hotline
01-800-004-6264
24 hours / day and 7 days a week.




[Edited on 11-15-2012 by gnukid]

Riom - 11-14-2012 at 09:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid

There is a qualification point system which is described for each option, qualification points are defined for income level, investment level (home value), ability to speak Spanish, knowledge of history, professional level (computer or biological scientist), significnt relationship with a Mexican such as living with girlfriend/boyfriend or marriage and children.


Do you have a reference in DOF or elsewhere for the full details of the points system? In Spanish is fine. I wasn't able to spot it yet in the big batch of procedures released on the 8th (apart from the checklists for each tramite). Thanks!

Rob

gnukid - 11-14-2012 at 09:25 PM

I get most of my info from you, but they are listed per application scenario, the scenarios are written as 3-4 criteria I would suggest people gather evidence of each that appies and steam roll:

typcial categories

income/savings month to month (you'll want to show sufficient income)
investment/business/home value (exceeding 1.25-2 million pesos)
significant relationships/gf/bf/marriage/children/possibly friends
ability to speak/write spanish
knowledge of history and culture
contribution/culture/art/sports
proferssional level/scientific degrees
personal history
fecha de vencimiento



[Edited on 11-15-2012 by gnukid]

Terry28 - 11-15-2012 at 08:10 PM

They did in Rosarito yesterday!! I did the paper work for my Residente Temporal, the old FM3.. I was renewing my existing FM3. as I had an existing card it was easy. No longer needed was bank and utility statements. Just filled out a form with a stated amount of monthly income. Nothing else. I use an agent in Rosarito who explained that for new applicants it is very different, and maybe changing a little after some time passes. Bottom line is do not let your current FM3 expire or your life will change.....But the fees posted in the previous post were used. And you can get one good for 4 years if you pay up front, and you get a healthy discount from the yearly fee.

gnukid - 11-16-2012 at 08:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riom
Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid

There is a qualification point system which is described for each option, qualification points are defined for income level, investment level (home value), ability to speak Spanish, knowledge of history, professional level (computer or biological scientist), significnt relationship with a Mexican such as living with girlfriend/boyfriend or marriage and children.


Do you have a reference in DOF or elsewhere for the full details of the points system? In Spanish is fine. I wasn't able to spot it yet in the big batch of procedures released on the 8th (apart from the checklists for each tramite). Thanks!

Rob


From the english regulations version via your site:

CHAPTER TWO POINTS SYSTEM Article 124. The point system for foreigners to acquire the residence permanently, establish selection criteria to attract foreign investors or people with high competence in areas such as science, technology, sports, humanities and arts or those to strengthen and promote the development and competitiveness in the country. Article 125. The selection criteria may include, among others, the following categories:
I. II. III. IV. V. VI. VII. VIII. The Secretariat established by general administrative provisions to be published in the Official Journal of the Federation, the categories, the weighting of points corresponding to each category, and the minimum score required to enter through this route.
Educational level; Work experience in areas of interest to the country that have high demand and low supply; Work experience in other areas; Investor; Skills in science and technology;
Acknowledgments and international awards; Proficiency Spanish and Understanding Mexican culture.
The Secretariat in conjunction with the agencies it deems appropriate, review the points system every three years, and if published in the Official Journal of the Federation, the addition, modification or removal of categories, the weighting of points corresponding to each one of them, and the minimum scores and other information it considers relevant.
Article 126. A foreigner who wishes to enter the country through the system of points must apply for visa at the consular office, the format must be attached to duly completed and prequalification documents proving they meet the categories.

If you read this carefully, you should be able to waltz in the consulate with your Mexican concubine, an old bowling trophy and a college sweatshirt and say, Si Gano! And then they will give you Permanent Resident Status.

[Edited on 11-16-2012 by gnukid]

Riom - 11-16-2012 at 06:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Article 125. The selection criteria may include, among others, the following categories:
I. II. III. IV. V. VI. VII. VIII. The Secretariat established by general administrative provisions to be published in the Official Journal of the Federation, the categories, the weighting of points corresponding to each category, and the minimum score required to enter through this route.


This is the key bit: the points and their weighting and the minimum score have not yet been published in DOF, as far as I can tell.

The points system will be mainly useful to those who can't qualify under one of the "wealthy" routes such as plenty of overseas income, good assets, or home ownership (or via 4 years temporary residence).

In other words, it's designed more for family reunion and young skilled workers, rather than "rich Americans" (who have the various money routes). Still, if/when the point values get published it may help those who have plenty of connections to Mexico but not enough money.

Rob

Hook - 11-16-2012 at 07:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Terry28
They did in Rosarito yesterday!! I did the paper work for my Residente Temporal, the old FM3.. I was renewing my existing FM3. as I had an existing card it was easy. No longer needed was bank and utility statements. Just filled out a form with a stated amount of monthly income. Nothing else. I use an agent in Rosarito who explained that for new applicants it is very different, and maybe changing a little after some time passes. Bottom line is do not let your current FM3 expire or your life will change.....But the fees posted in the previous post were used. And you can get one good for 4 years if you pay up front, and you get a healthy discount from the yearly fee.


How many years of FM-3 had you had, prior to applying for your latest one? How many years did you apply for for this Residente Temporal?

Terry28 - 11-17-2012 at 11:34 AM

Hook,

I was on my second FM3...The first renewal was this month..I have had an FM3 for 4 years previous but for some stupid reason I let it expire, for 3 years, and paid a hefty fine last year when I had it reinstated. This time I paid for 2 years as I wanted to wait and see if it changed. But as I said if you had an existing card it was very easy...expensive, but easy....

meme - 11-17-2012 at 12:45 PM

How expensive?

Terry28 - 11-18-2012 at 10:32 AM

The costs are posted on page one of this thread...