BajaNomad - How FM3 years towards Permanent Residence are counted

How FM3 years towards Permanent Residence are counted

Riom - 12-6-2012 at 08:24 PM

San Felipe INM are not allowing the years in consecutive FM3's to count towards the 4 years needed for permanent residence.

If one FM3 for 5 years is followed by one for 2 years, they count it as only two years.

Reason they state: the second FM3 (actually No Immigrante card) required a "regularisation" because "the previous card has expired", and any regularisation (even without any fine) resets the clock. This is even if the second FM3 application was accepted on the first business day after the previous one expired (which I believe is the earliest that person could have applied for it, given that the other one was in force before that).

To be clear, the second card could only be applied for via regularisation, so they say there is no way two FM3 cards can ever be considered consecutive.

So, has anybody had an application for permanent accepted anywhere based on years from a current FM3 (which is under 4 years) with the remainder from a previous FM3? (not including proving income or assets, which are separate routes that don't count the years).

Rob

[Edited on 2012-12-7 by Riom]

DENNIS - 12-6-2012 at 08:41 PM

The water just gets more murky by the day.

rhintransit - 12-7-2012 at 06:07 AM

hum, must be same interpretation that Loreto immigration is applying. if you have an FM2, then the FM3 years don't count. don't know the reasoning, but they say that you need to have four years on the FM2 to apply for permanent.
since various offices seem to be applying the rules differently, I foresee a whole of unhappy folks. some with Permanent Resident cards who have had 4 years FM3, some with Permanent Resident cards who have never been in country, some with Temp cards who have been here longer than any of them. sigh.

Hook - 12-7-2012 at 06:24 AM

My wife had two years of the booklet (FM3) and two years of the NI card. They accepted her application for a Permanente on Monday. This is in Guaymas.

She does not have it in her possession yet, of course.

monoloco - 12-7-2012 at 07:31 AM

They gave me an FM2 after two years of FM3.

Russ - 12-7-2012 at 07:49 AM

I've been inmigrado for 5 or 6 years now and it's really nice to not have to jump through their hoops. I don't think I want to apply for the perminente card until I have to.

twogringos - 12-7-2012 at 07:50 AM

three years FM3, three years FM2 and we were not able to get permanent residence in La Paz. They would only count the FM2 and said the new law changed form 5 years to 4 the number needed for residence. We will now get a Temporary Resident card, but will it be number 1 or 4?

DENNIS - 12-7-2012 at 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rhintransit
hum, must be same interpretation that Loreto immigration is applying. if you have an FM2, then the FM3 years don't count. don't know the reasoning, but they say that you need to have four years on the FM2 to apply for permanent.
since various offices seem to be applying the rules differently, I foresee a whole of unhappy folks. some with Permanent Resident cards who have had 4 years FM3, some with Permanent Resident cards who have never been in country, some with Temp cards who have been here longer than any of them. sigh.

It's almost like we're their new favorite toy. WhyTF hasn't someone in an official capacity stepped up to offer some clarification? Would that be considered unPC for them to do that ?

bajaguy - 12-7-2012 at 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
.......WhyTF hasn't someone in an official capacity stepped up to offer some clarification?.......

They don't know either :lol:

monoloco - 12-7-2012 at 08:46 AM

In my experience they have been consistent about 4 renewals of the FM2 before inmigrado.

durrelllrobert - 12-7-2012 at 09:45 AM

Screwed again! 5 years of FM3 but only 2 years of FM2. However,my wife does have 4 years on her FM3.

La Paz INM rules

john68 - 12-8-2012 at 07:36 AM

We have 9 years of FM3's in book form, 1 year of FM3 in card form and one year of FM2 in card form. La Paz INM now tells us that when an FM3 book is reissued (every five years) or when they switched from a book to a card, we are reset to zero and we are, therefore, not yet eligible for Residente Permanente.

The income/asset/skills option is not an option because the rules haven't been developed.

Has anyone in a similar situation had any luck with La Paz INM?

Thanks.

DENNIS - 12-8-2012 at 08:34 AM

It's merely a dream, but we should boycot imigration until they get their act together. Their efforts are becoming abusive and punitive.

DianaT - 12-8-2012 at 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
It's merely a dream, but we should boycot imigration until they get their act together. Their efforts are becoming abusive and punitive.

Yes, by golly. We should all get out the signs, put on the marching shoes and have a mass rally and tell them that not one of us is going to get anything from immigration until they get their act together. We demand consistency and clarity!

It should be fun. :lol:

Bye-Bye

bajaguy - 12-8-2012 at 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
It's merely a dream, but we should boycot imigration until they get their act together. Their efforts are becoming abusive and punitive.

I will be sitting on the curb with my Pacifico and popcorn cheering you on as the INM bus takes you to the border for your deportation........

DENNIS - 12-8-2012 at 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

It's merely a dream

DianaT - 12-8-2012 at 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

It's merely a dream

Ah shucks ---

Dang

bajaguy - 12-8-2012 at 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

It's merely a dream

Ah shucks ---

I was saving seats on the deportation bus.....

monoloco - 12-8-2012 at 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by john68
We have 9 years of FM3's in book form, 1 year of FM3 in card form and one year of FM2 in card form. La Paz INM now tells us that when an FM3 book is reissued (every five years) or when they switched from a book to a card, we are reset to zero and we are, therefore, not yet eligible for Residente Permanente.

The income/asset/skills option is not an option because the rules haven't been developed.

Has anyone in a similar situation had any luck with La Paz INM?

Thanks.

As far as I know, FM3 time has never counted towards inmigrado status. You are not eligible until after your 4th renewal of FM2. It sounds to me like that is still the case, they just changed the names of everything.

john68 - 12-8-2012 at 12:18 PM

My understanding of the new law is that both FM3 and FM2 time now count toward Residente Permanente status. This reset business and the change from books to cards makes that meaningless for many of us.

DENNIS - 12-8-2012 at 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
I was saving seats on the deportation bus.....

I've already reserved the same seat I had the first time. :biggrin:

RnR - 12-8-2012 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

We have almost exactly the same situation. 8yrs of FM3 in a book, 1 yr FM3 on a card, 1 yr FM2 on a card. And we received the exact same story from La Paz immigration.

We easily qualify for immediate permanente under the retired/income standards and La Paz immigration agrees!

But, they are not yet ready to issue permanente under this standard until the written procedures are received from Mexico City. Maybe next week, maybe next month, maybe next year???? The only thing that La Paz immigration can suggest is to change to Temporary Resident and wait for the new procedures to be issued.

My next door neighbor just happens to be on his fourth year of FM3 renewals and La Paz immigration accepted, no RECOMMENDED, that he change to permanente and be done with it.

Go Figure!!!!

Riom - 12-8-2012 at 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco

Quote:

Originally posted by john68
La Paz INM now tells us that when an FM3 book is reissued (every five years) or when they switched from a book to a card, we are reset to zero and we are, therefore, not yet eligible for Residente Permanente.

The income/asset/skills option is not an option because the rules haven't been developed.

More than just the names changed, the new law has totally different processes, any rules from the past no longer apply. As has been reported in detail in numerous articles over the past months, FM3 and FM2 are no more, they are both temporary resident. Inmigrado is no more (for new applicants), that's permanent resident.

After a "continuous" 4 years of temporary residence (which includes either FM2 or FM3), permanent residence can automatically be applied for. It's the "continuous" that is causing the problem: it's being argued that getting a second FM3, or a change to a FM2, requires the first status to expire so: not continuous, so reset the clock. Four years on the same FM3 (or FM2) are fine, it's the expiry (actually the following regularization) that was needed to get a new card that is the problem.

There also seems to be some misunderstandings on the alternatives to waiting 4 years. The rules for income requirements (c. US$2.4k/mo for the past 6 months) and assets (c. $125k average balance for the past 12 months) are established and are being applied - either can lead to immediate permanent residence, as well as slightly lower limits that lead to temporary residence.

All that is undefined is the "points system" which is aimed at young skilled workers (qualifications, language skills, etc). The details of the points levels will be announced in January but are unlikely to be useful to the typical reader of this site.

Rob

RnR - 12-8-2012 at 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riom

There also seems to be some misunderstandings on the alternatives to waiting 4 years. The rules for income requirements (c. US$2.4k/mo for the past 6 months) and assets (c. $125k average balance for the past 12 months) are established and are being applied - either can lead to immediate permanent residence, as well as slightly lower limits that lead to temporary residence.

Rob

As I stated in a post above:

La Paz immigration agrees with using the path of income requirements to issue "permanente" status immediately. They just are not processing those requests, YET.

They pointed out that we only have three weeks of validity left on our current FM2's and that the new procedures probably would not be in place within that three week period. (I'm sure of that seeing as two of those three weeks are the Christmas office closure!)

So, have to switch back to "temporary" and wait until the new procedures are issued.

Riom - 12-8-2012 at 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RnR
La Paz immigration agrees with using the path of income requirements to issue "permanente" status immediately. They just are not processing those requests, YET.

They pointed out that we only have three weeks of validity left on our current FM2's and that the new procedures probably would not be in place within that three week period.

That is odd. San Felipe have been accepting those applications, first one I heard about was several weeks ago. The requirement were published on the website before Nov 12th.

Just a couple of days ago they suggested to me that ("pension" income of $2.3k/mo) to me as an alternative route for permanent for where only the latest FM3 was counted (so only 2 years not 7 years).

They did also say there was (separately) the points system, but the rules for that wouldn't be available until January. Nothing about not accepting the income basis yet.

Rob

RnR - 12-8-2012 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riom

Quote:

Yep, that's right. You can print the requirements right off of INM's website. This looked like a slam-dunk to me until I got to the La Paz office.

Other offices (other than La Paz) have different procedures.

Have heard that Guaymas (?) is counting all years under previous documents, not just the current document.

Mazatlan, (and now San Felipe) are already processing based on income.

La Paz ???? I feel like telling them to read their own damn website ,but,

You sure don't want to argue with them or.......

WTF

Riom - 12-8-2012 at 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RnR
Mazatlan, (and now San Felipe) are already processing based on income.

La Paz ???? I feel like telling them to read their own damn website ,but,

You sure don't want to argue with them or.......

WTF

That's basically the reason I'm going for the two year temporary rather than the permanent that would be possible if they counted both FM3s (and rather than jumping though hoops to put together financial documents).

It's no worse than an FM3 (except for cost) and just makes for an easier life, rather than putting their backs up by pointing out what they're doing "wrong". It never makes sense to argue with immigration (or border guards!).

Rob

Hook - 12-8-2012 at 10:23 PM

Well, I'm having to go for two more years of Temporal (after having two years of NI card) because Guaymas WOULD NOT LET ME QUALIFY STRICTLY ON THE BASIS OF INCOME OR ASSETS FOR A PERMANENTE.

To make matters worse, for some reason (probably incompetence on the part of the INM agent) I am having to submit six months of OFFICIALLY TRANSLATED bank statements just to obtain the two year Temporal status.

Go figure. :rolleyes:

BajaJeeper - 12-9-2012 at 08:31 AM

Some of my Mexican friends tell very similar stories about the arbitrary application of rules by US Immigration. They are very frustrated. Maybe a little tit for tat going on?

Totally agree

The Gull - 12-9-2012 at 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
It's merely a dream, but we should boycot imigration until they get their act together. Their efforts are becoming abusive and punitive.

Hang an American flag on your home and burn a Mexican flag for some local news people - that will get you a long term stay in Mexico.

DENNIS - 12-9-2012 at 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
It's merely a dream, but we should boycot imigration until they get their act together. Their efforts are becoming abusive and punitive.

Hang an American flag on your home and burn a Mexican flag for some local news people - that will get you a long term stay in Mexico.

Nice to see you come out of the landfill to add your comment, Gull. Now, go back to eating those loaded diapers. :lol:

Merry Christmas, by the way, if you don't plan on hanging around here.

any recent developments on this topic?

john68 - 12-12-2012 at 11:58 AM

thanks.

Riom - 12-12-2012 at 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john68

Not really. I ended up putting in two temporary residence applications: my blog post.

No bank statements or bank letters were needed for either in San Felipe.

Rob

[Edited on 2012-12-12 by Riom]

Hook - 12-12-2012 at 01:38 PM

You know, this isnt rocket science. The rules are, for the most part, easier as written.

It is just astounding that some head bureaucrat in the INM cannot seem to get it together enough to send out clear instructions on what is needed for each immigration status.............period.

Clear instructions for persons starting for the first time.
Clear instructions for persons renewing an FM3/NI
Clear instructions for persons renewing an FM2/I
Clear instructions for persons who were formerly inmigrado.

There are not a lot of exceptions to the basic rules that would affect most of us like Mexican kids or Mexican wives or husbands or businesses in Mexico.

And yet a law that is a year and a half LATE in the publishing, takes every office by surprise and spawns so many different interpretations that the head bureaucrat doesnt seem to be able to monitor it and issue clarifications. Just amazing.

There is NO WAY it is like this for foreigners trying to immigrate into the US, bajajeeper. The rules are cut and dried. If the US government is ANYTHING, it is monolithic in nature, all across the country.

Today's rant is now complete; sparked mainly by Riom's mention that San Felipe is not requiring translated bank statements (at $6-8US/page!). :mad:

DENNIS - 12-12-2012 at 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
There is NO WAY it is like this for foreigners trying to immigrate into the US, bajajeeper. The rules are cut and dried.

Far from the truth, Hook. I've heard stories from credible sources of the arbitrary rules and abuse piled upon Mexicans trying to fight the immigration process in the US. One such case left me so embarrased to be an American that I cried.
What I'm seeing today, with the process here being as disorganized as it seems to be, is payback, but, after they have their fun, it will all be explained as the normal confusion that comes with the change of administrations. All we can do is hope this nonsense is temporary.

Hook - 12-12-2012 at 02:44 PM

I would submit that our immigration laws simply change and the foreigners are having trouble with the changes..........but the changes are cut and dried and spelled out.

This is a moving target from office to office, down here.

Big difference in immigration between each country? When Mexicans immigrate to the US, they are generally coming in poorer than the average US citizen. When we come into Mexico, we are adding money to their economy.

Mexico is shooting themselves in the foot with this inconsistency. People are going back to the tourist visas in many cases down here.

DENNIS - 12-12-2012 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Mexico is shooting themselves in the foot with this inconsistency. People are going back to the tourist visas in many cases down here.

Tourist visas are a recurring source of revenue while permanent residency isn't.

Hook - 12-12-2012 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Mexico is shooting themselves in the foot with this inconsistency. People are going back to the tourist visas in many cases down here.

Tourist visas are a recurring source of revenue while permanent residency isn't.

Where you been in all this? It would take many years of tourist visas to equal the fees being charged for all the others, at least for those who have a choice. I'm not talking about the aggregate amount in tourist visa fees accrued by people coming here for a week or two. They have no other choice.

Only the Permanente is "supposed" to be open ended.

Actually, some are now saying that it will only be good for ten years.

Riom - 12-12-2012 at 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
There is NO WAY it is like this for foreigners trying to immigrate into the US, bajajeeper. The rules are cut and dried. If the US government is ANYTHING, it is monolithic in nature, all across the country.

From personal experience with the broken US tourist visa application process and the way it works differently in different locations (and with each different person), I disagree.

Rob

[Edited on 2012-12-13 by Riom]

durrelllrobert - 12-12-2012 at 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

There is NO WAY it is like this for foreigners trying to immigrate into the US, bajajeeper. The rules are cut and dried. If the US government is ANYTHING, it is monolithic in nature, all across the country.

Correct, it's very monolitic. My Canadain wife just got her Permanent Resident card for the US and applying via Juarez MX it only took 3.5 yaers at a cost of only $2,500.
Looking forward to getting Residente Permanente status for both of us here in Mx.

Leo - 1-4-2013 at 03:26 PM

Does anyone have current experience at obtaining Residente permanente status in the La Paz office? (Have had FM3 for many years)
Where do I start, webpage to print the application form etc.
What else to bring and how much money.

RnR - 1-4-2013 at 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leo
Does anyone have current experience at obtaining Residente permanente status in the La Paz office? (Have had FM3 for many years)
Where do I start, webpage to print the application form etc.
What else to bring and how much money.

Experience from 3 weeks ago:

It doesn't matter how many cumulative years that you have on an FM3, (or FM2), only whether or not the back of your current card says "Prorroga 4". "Prorroga 4" means the fourth renewal.

Went to the La Paz office with my wife. I have had an FM3 for 6 years. (5 years on the original FM3 and one year on the current FM3, therefore Prorroga 0).) My wife has 5 years on her first FM3, therefore Prorroga 4).

They looked at the back of her card, pointed to the "Prorroga 4", nodded their heads, and accepted her for permanent resident.

The same guy looked at mine, pointed at "Prorroga 0", and told me that I had to be a temporary resident for four more years and that when I reached "Prorroga 4", they would accept me for a permanent resident.

Bottom line - you have to be in the fifth year of your latest/current FM3. Nothing else counts!

Website: http://www.inm.gob.mx/

Cost:

Permanent Resident - $3815 MXN

Temporary Resident for four more years - about $7400 MXN then $3815 MXN for the permanent resident card for a grand total of over $10,000 MXN.

Something doesn't seem right here but that's what happened three weeks ago. Both applications are currently being processed and immigration says that they should be ready in another week.

Hook - 1-4-2013 at 09:43 PM

RnR's experience pretty much matches mine at the Guaymas, Sonora office.

IF it is feasible for you to turn in your FM3 and go back to an FMM at a border crossing (generally, you cant apply for an FMM at an INM office away from the border), you can then proceed to a Mexican consulate in the States and apply directly for a Permanente. That really doesnt seem fair to many of us who are in the midst of their FM3 prorroga track.

Leo - 1-5-2013 at 11:11 AM

Thanks RnR for your detailed response.
Looks like we are screwed. 4 years on the old FM3 and the new card says 'prorroga 1' That's 5 years to me; going 6 with the new application.
I don't like beign milked like that. We spend enough money around in Baja to be welcomed with open arms.
Not sure if it is smart as property owner to go back to 'Tourist' status with a 24 dollar permit for 6 months. (6 months is all we can stay anyway as Canadians)

DianaT - 1-5-2013 at 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leo
Thanks RnR for your detailed response.
Looks like we are screwed. 4 years on the old FM3 and the new card says 'prorroga 1' That's 5 years to me; going 6 with the new application.

This is crazy. We share your situation --- from 5 years on the old and 1 on the new. Next trip down we will stop at our immigration office in GN and see what they say.

Santiago - 1-5-2013 at 12:18 PM

I'm new to this stuff so help me out here. I flipped my 'No Imigrante' card over and I have the the coveted 'Prorroga 4'. I'm up for renewal next month. If I understand this thread correctly, I could go for an 'Inmigrante' for $3185 pesos and then not have an annual renewal fee. Is this right?

gnukid - 1-5-2013 at 12:22 PM

First off let me say this is just crazy, if you are in any year but year 4, 9, 14 etc... you can not apply for permanent residente. While I accept that this is what INM agents in Mexico are saying, it's my reading there is much more nuance since there are many paths clearly defined toward Residente Permanente. Apparently the applicants don't meet any of those qualifications, or fail to note their qualifications.

As noted, it was suggested that to change levels one must leave and apply in the USA, therefore most people with an FM-3 or FM-2 are directed to Residente Temporal when applying in Mexico while the result may different in the USA at Mexican consulates. Apparently INM associates in Mexico are instructed to not make decisions about changing levels.

If you have more qualifications among those noted in the documentation then bring the documentation of those qualifications and make your case. For example if you have more than the required investment, savings, income or qualify through with the points system. Otherwise condisider if it's worth it to apply at your home Mexican Consul.

Either way it's unfortunate that once again things couldn't be more confoundng, costly and time consuming in Mexico.

DENNIS - 1-5-2013 at 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Apparently INM associates in Mexico are instructed to not make decisions about changing levels.

You have got to be kidding, Paul. These various Fiefdoms seem to be writing their own book on the subject.

DENNIS - 1-5-2013 at 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Either way it's unfortunate that once again things couldn't be more confoundng, costly and time consuming in Mexico.

We don' need no more steenkin confounding, costly or time consuming. Bastante es bastante.

RnR - 1-5-2013 at 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
I'm new to this stuff so help me out here. I flipped my 'No Imigrante' card over and I have the the coveted 'Prorroga 4'. I'm up for renewal next month. If I understand this thread correctly, I could go for an 'Inmigrante' for $3185 pesos and then not have an annual renewal fee. Is this right?

For the La Paz office:

Santiago - you just won the lotto!!

Go for Permanente for $3815 MXN and you are done for LIFE! No more visits to Immigration.

This is the case for my wife. She was just going to renew the FM3 and immigration recommended Permanente.

And I just lost the lotto. One year into my second FM3 and I have to wait four more.

To Gnukid:

Yes, there are other ways to qualify for Permanente such as investments or income. I easily qualify, BUT, La PAz immigration has not received official direction on how to proceed. They are waiting for procedures from Mexico City.

In the interim, if your card is expiring, you have no options but to continue as a "temporal".

gnukid - 1-5-2013 at 01:41 PM

I'm in process now, you can imagine how much wrong info I've been given, but I tried not to offend, I just pull out my 100 page binder of the law printed and highlighted plus advisements in spanish and we review together and correct every mistatement... visit number 6 in one month due INM holidays and parties... I'll find out next wednesday. The agents admit they have never done a residente permanente before... or apparently much of anything that's a big part of the hurdle.

redmesa - 1-5-2013 at 07:52 PM

What does "prorroga" mean in this case?

DENNIS - 1-5-2013 at 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
What does "prorroga" mean in this case?

Google Translate says...."extended."

Hook - 1-5-2013 at 09:16 PM

I hit em with the financial qualifications. Well, at least the monthly pension income that was well in excess of their minimum. Nope, he says. You gotta stay Temporal for two more years. In fact, they made me translate 6 months worth of financials into Spanish (using an official Spanish translator!!) and turn them in JUST TO TRANSITION FROM FM3 TO TEMPORAL. What a crock!!!!

In the meantime, my wife with the prorroga 4 ON A LUCRATIVO FM3, DIDNT HAVE TO TURN IN A SINGLE BIT OF FINANCIAL DOCUMENTATION!

I just laugh when I see Gypsy Jan post articles about how Mexico's time is NOW, how they are going to join the elite civilized countries of the world.

Yeah, right. They STILL dont even have a postal service that works, much less immigration rules that make any sense!

[Edited on 1-6-2013 by Hook]

Leo - 1-6-2013 at 09:56 AM

I second that Hook,
but don't forget your personal quote. Relax!....

Hook - 1-6-2013 at 10:15 AM

It's bothesome when you play by the rules and are actually disadvantaged by it.

DENNIS - 1-6-2013 at 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
It's bothesome when you play by the rules and are actually disadvantaged by it.

Mexico is held together by chaos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnlkKdDXk-I

Hook - 1-6-2013 at 10:51 AM

Yes, it's very clear that chaos actually favors the ruling class and corporations in Mexico.

For instance, imagine if Mexico actually had a working postal system. One could order products on line from ANYWHERE, simply pay the duty and still be ahead in terms of cost. But it would eliminate the "cut" of the importers and the retailers within the country.

Even the delivery services that supposedly compete with the Mexican postal system are overly priced for a country with a much cheaper labor force and less expensive fuel.

The ruling class and the labor unions have Mexico by the cojones in so many cases.

I dont blame the unions for demanding better wages but they defend incompetence and promote nepotism in their ranks to a degree even unimaginable in the US.

The result is chaotic..................and disadvantageous to Mexicans outside these chaotic systems.

DENNIS - 1-6-2013 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Even the delivery services that supposedly compete

That's one of the biggest downfalls for the consumer in Mexico. They don't compete. They price-fix and give the consumer little choice in quality and price.
NAFTA, along with the Big Box stores, importing goods previously unavailable have put a big hurt on manufacturers in Mexico. In the past they could fill a box with dog crap and call it delicous food and the consumer had no choice on the shelf.
That's changing.

UnoMas - 1-6-2013 at 11:37 AM

Paul Check U2U.

gnukid - 1-6-2013 at 12:29 PM

Some people are reporting recieving an email that their residente permanente card is now ready for pickup.

Hook - 1-6-2013 at 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Some people are reporting recieving an email that their residente permanente card is now ready for pickup.

Would these be the people that applied in the second week of November, when the new rules kicked in?

I assume my Temporal will be ready some time this next week when the offices re-open. It will be interesting to see when my wife's Permanente is ready.

[Edited on 1-7-2013 by Hook]

karenintx - 1-6-2013 at 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Some people are reporting recieving an email that their residente permanente card is now ready for pickup.

A friend applied for his R/T in CSL on Tuesday Nov 20th...INM was closed on Monday for Día de la Revolución. Due to his work schedule he had to leave so he was required to pay 320 pesos to get out of the country. He came back on Dec 7th and went to INM. They took his finger prints then told him "we will scan & email this to Mexico City." Again he had to pay 320 pesos to get out of the country.

He came back on X-mas day. By this time he was so irritated with INM for having to pay 640 pesos to leave the country twice he decided to fill out a "Tourist Form" (or what ever they are calling it now) and save the exit letter he had. He said he was one of the last people in line so he had time to talk with the airport INM agent. He told the agent his long story and showed him the Tourist Form and his get out of the country letter. He said the agent looked at the computer then quietly said "I understand your problem but legally you need to use the letter". My friend torn up the Tourist Form then asked the agent to throw it away.

Fast forward to Jan 4th. He goes to INM. Believe it or not INM had someone working for "emergencies"...like letters to get out of the country. Lo and behold his R/T was ready. He renewed it for three years however his expiration date read 31/12/2012.

Yes, INM got it wrong! When he showed it to them the agent said "We will have to send it back to Mexico City." My friend was ready to kill someone. He was thinking he would paying an other 320 pesos. No, not this time...they gave him a temporary visa so he could come and go as many times as he need to while INM works on getting his R/T reissued.

He was so mad...they screwed him out of 640 pesos! Nothing he could do.

To Be Continued...

UnoMas - 1-7-2013 at 06:17 AM

Hope this is true. Been waiting seven weeks for our R/P so far! :fire:

[Edited on 1-7-2013 by UnoMas]

Hook - 1-7-2013 at 07:30 AM

Just great. We are scheduled to leave the country in about 2 weeks. :fire:

UnoMas - 1-7-2013 at 07:38 AM

Hook
We have already changed plane tickets and extended our stay a month longer than intended.

Hook - 1-7-2013 at 10:14 AM

I just realized that it's the departure by plane that is causing you the grief.

We will be leaving by car, to then fly out of Phoenix. It SHOULDNT be an issue. My wife, who is the one waiting for an R/P, has a temp that works at land crossings. Or so we were told by the INM agent.

I hope to get my R/T this week.

Hook - 1-7-2013 at 01:39 PM

Back from INM Guaymas, as our computer login said both of us should come to the office.

Wife is still an indeterminate amount of time away from the R/P. She will then have to go to HERMOSILLO to obtain the R/P. It can only be issued at regional INM offices.

I was fingerprinted today and my previously turned in photos were attached to another sheet. In the past, they could then issue an FM3 at this point, while I waited. Not now, I still have another 10 days to wait and I will receive an email telling me to come in, pay for it and pick up the new one.

So, it appears that the MINIMUM number of trips to an INM office to get a R/T is four (assuming you DIY, instead of hiring someone). An FM3 used to be able to be completed in two trips.

Leo - 1-7-2013 at 02:35 PM

Guess we were too optumistic that this was going to be better. 4 trips to the city and waiting times. Maybe time to let someone else do it this time around. Skip the agrevation, fuell and time.

UnoMas - 1-7-2013 at 04:01 PM

They tell us we can get a two month temporary visa but would have to return when the papers are ready to pick them up or they all go in the trash and start from year one. That means $1500.00 in airfare to return plus expences :mad:

Santiago - 1-7-2013 at 04:06 PM

I have been quoted just under $750dllrs to process my status to a permanent (I'm a Prorroga 4). Given that the government fee is in the $320 range, this seems a little steep. Of course, I only have to go one time when it's completed, everything else is by mail. Anyone else use a fixer for this transaction?

Hook - 1-7-2013 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
I have been quoted just under $750dllrs to process my status to a permanent (I'm a Prorroga 4). Given that the government fee is in the $320 range, this seems a little steep. Of course, I only have to go one time when it's completed, everything else is by mail. Anyone else use a fixer for this transaction?

I believe the cost is 4850 pesos plus a 1000 application fee for around 5850. Divided by 12.8 is 457.00 or so. Not too bad, depending on your level of Spanish, your proximity to the INM office AND THE ASSURANCE THAT THAT 750.00US INCLUDES ALL INM RELATED FEES.

EDIT: Actually, that's more than I would spend on it. I'd DIY for a three hundred dollar savings. But I am only about 20 minutes away from an office and a Banamex right across the street.

I think Dennis got quoted 600.00 total.

[Edited on 1-7-2013 by Hook]

UnoMas - 1-7-2013 at 04:47 PM

On a good note I thought the R/P application process was easier than the FM-3, only wanted 2 months financial and no utility bill, all else was the same. I always do mine myself as it isn't that difficult. As long as you take what they want nothing to it.
My only problem now is the waiting game for the new process. They only been working on implementing it for two years and no one knows what is going on...yet :rolleyes:

[Edited on 1-8-2013 by UnoMas]

DENNIS - 1-7-2013 at 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnoMas
On a good note I thought the R/P application process was easier than the FM-3, only wanted 2yrs financial

Is that 2 months or as you say, years?
I had to give six months

Hook - 1-7-2013 at 08:28 PM

And my wife, who has been on an FM3/NI lucrativo for four years had to give NO FINANCIAL PAPERS AT ALL. A wage earner in Mexico. Go figure.

BTW, I was wrong about the cost of the R/P. It's 1000 pesos plus 3815 for a total of 4815. At 12.8, that's only 398.00. 750 bucks seems REALLY excessive to me. But everyone has their own value on convenience.

UnoMas - 1-7-2013 at 09:54 PM

Dennis,
Two months.

[Edited on 1-8-2013 by UnoMas]

UnoMas - 1-9-2013 at 06:27 AM

Was told by an Immigration attorney yesterday that I will need to get a temporary exit visa as things don't look good for receiving my R/P before February. I applied mid November, I can see where this New system is much easier like it was designed to be :rolleyes:

Direct quote "Things at La Paz immigration are a mess". :fire:

Hook - 1-9-2013 at 07:05 AM

Yeah, on our visit this week, I asked when my wife's R/P would be ready and got the quien-sabe-eye-roll from the agent at the counter. :rolleyes:

She still has not be fingerprinted, so she has at least TWO more visits to go.

Good news: a gal in Mazatlan appears to be the first gringo to have gotten her R/P card since the new regs. She applied on the FIRST day of eligibility; Nov. 9 and got it sometime in the last week.

UnoMas - 1-14-2013 at 03:45 PM

Anyone with first hand knowledge of a permanent resident card being issued anywhere. I have been waiting two months and no word. I will start the process to obtain my temporary visa tomorrow for my departure in two weeks. I have been told that they are falling behind on those as well. :?:

DENNIS - 1-14-2013 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnoMas
Anyone with first hand knowledge of a permanent resident card being issued anywhere. I have been waiting two months and no word. I will start the process to obtain my temporary visa tomorrow for my departure in two weeks. I have been told that they are falling behind on those as well. :?:

My neighbor just got his after around two months waiting. His agent called him a few days back to tell him he had been approved in spite of inadaquate income.
The mystery continues.

.

[Edited on 1-14-2013 by DENNIS]