BajaNomad - Guns & Ammo in Baja

Guns & Ammo in Baja

Pompano - 2-9-2013 at 11:04 AM

Another reminder about guns and ammo in Mexico. (I decided to put this post into its own thread, rather than clutter up the Manhunt thread.)

For anyone planning a trip to Baja....or Mexico.

Most folks already know that you should not even consider taking weapons or ammo into Mexico. This can't be stated enough...DO NOT DO IT. Dire events about guns in Mexico have been in the news a lot, plus the current armed-fugitive search creates food for thought.

Many moons ago, I was driving my old camo-painted Suburban down the Baja Highway and was stopped at a regular Army checkpoint.

Whoops!...My bad. I had forgot to thoroughly check the center console for any possible illegal stuff, like ammuniton. The soldier rummaged around in there and came up holding a couple spent 12 ga. shotgun cartridges. They said that even these empties were a no-no...and I agreed with a lame excuse that I had somehow overlooked them. I explained that I reload my own ammunition and these hulls should have been left at home. I was forgiven after some back and forth conversation with the officer in charge. Luckily, we knew some of the same people.

An interested anecdote to that conversation was...The Lt. suggested that I get my Suburban re-painted some other color, as camouflage was supposedly reserved for the military. :?:

I am neither a gun nut nor paranoid as the pc news media are chanting today, but do consider myself a responsible gun-owner and respectful hunter, coming from a long-lived tradition of these values. I have traveled to Baja frequently every year for 40 years. My best advice on this subject of guns is ...Don't carry guns or ammo to Mexico. If your trip will include hunting, use your outfitter's firearms and ammo. (Sure, you can go through all the hoops and get the right permits to bring your own gear...but you better have a suitcase full of 100's to deal with that official who wants your burro. You'll likely lose the gear anyway, plus the dinero.)

And if you have ever had ammo in the vehicle...check and re-check. Now...Painting your rig camo color may or may not be okay! (that was news to me..) :rolleyes:

Jeeps? I drive Jeeps, too. (It has ducks, not camo) Have yet to own a Toyota, but who knows?

There...now I'll get off this soapbox.

Ken Cooke - 2-9-2013 at 11:11 AM

This is good advice - to check your vehicle for anything that might bring a possible problem with law enforcement before entering Mexico. I know that valve caps made with used bullet casings are available (here in the U.S.), but would probably be a poor choice on your Baja-driven vehicles.

.45 Caliber Valve caps

MMc - 2-9-2013 at 11:13 AM

Very well put!! I love the camo on the Suburban, never thought about using dogs as camo.

Pompano - 2-9-2013 at 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
This is good advice - to check your vehicle for anything that might bring a possible problem with law enforcement before entering Mexico. I know that valve caps made with used bullet casings are available (here in the U.S.), but would probably be a poor choice on your Baja-driven vehicles.

.45 Caliber Valve caps

Right on, Ken,

Same thing as with my truck's keys...I removed this keyring 'fob', a spent .44 Mag cartridge. This kind of stuff just raises some eyebrows and puts you on the radar. Leave it at home, like I did.

Ken Cooke - 2-9-2013 at 11:46 AM

Your FSJ Wagoneer is very similar to the one my Father (RIP) took us camping in back in the early 80s prior to him purchasing his Motorhome. Good times with my Father who I miss deeply.

Pompano - 2-9-2013 at 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MMc
Very well put!! I love the camo on the Suburban, never thought about using dogs as camo.

Ah, you noticed those, eh?

I've mentioned those pooches before, but humor knows no bounds and it's worth repeating now:

Canadian Humor...We were in a northern Saskatchewan town on a goose hunt with that Suburban and parked next to a local cafe. We walked out at the same time as a couple of gals, who looked at those dogs and started to laugh out loud.

"Hey, so you like my retrievers?", said I

"Well, one looks more like a receiver than a retriever!", said one gal.

You gotta love those Canadian gals...

Pompano - 2-9-2013 at 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Your FSJ Wagoneer is very similar to the one my Father (RIP) took us camping in back in the early 80s prior to him purchasing his Motorhome. Good times with my Father who I miss deeply.

Great memories in my old Jeep, too, Ken. Mine was a custom-painted Jeep that was bid on and won at a Ducks Unlimited auction.

p.s. All monies raised at these events go to wetland conservation & habitat...to support the ducks, other waterfowl and countless wildlife. Most hunters belong or donate to this great organization.

Back to guns and ammo in Baja...did not mean to morph this into a thread about Jeeps and such.

[Edited on 2-9-2013 by Pompano]

David K - 2-9-2013 at 12:07 PM

The Jeep looks like mine, except where you changed the Cherokee Chief to Ducks Unlimited... Mine was a red 1975.5 Cherokee Chief which was when they were first sold, too early to legally call it a '76. 401 V-8, Quadra-Trac, Levi Seats... It was great, except it was always in the shop for repairs... Sold it after two years and got a 77.5 Subaru 4WD wagon, again a '78 model, but too soon to legally call it a '78, lol. I put well over 100,000 miles with many Baja trips in just two years!

Bullets

captkw - 2-9-2013 at 12:11 PM

"back in the day" 30 some years ago I/we would bring down 38. for the police and 22 LR for the ranchers and never thought about it...But ,today with this insane "war on drugs" and "war on terrior" I would sure the hell would not even consider bringing down anymore !! K&T

DavidE - 2-9-2013 at 12:34 PM

Ever since the military and cops lost dozens and dozens of members to gunfights they are a tad touchy about the subject. The guys I talk with are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt (true or not) that many gringos make a pile of money importing ammo for sicarios (gunmen). Not a subject I would care to defend a mistake of not cleaning out my rig.

One sargento told me years ago, "No recomendarlo un pintura de arma de fuego"

("I don't recommend a PHOTO of a firearm!")

Skeet/Loreto - 2-9-2013 at 12:38 PM

I too carried a 38 Chiefs Special 30 years ago also took a Shotgun with me in my Plane. Never was searched in the Plane.

Today if you are going to Carry keep a Pistol in an underarm Scabert where it does not show.

Ateo - 2-9-2013 at 12:53 PM

In my book, anyone bringing a gun into Mexico these days is insane.

Barry A. - 2-9-2013 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ateo
In my book, anyone bringing a gun into Mexico these days is insane.

Agree!!!! Canada too. (even tho I am Federally licensed to carry in the USA)

Barry

David K - 2-9-2013 at 01:02 PM

I've know people who did, and wouldn't go to Mexico (or anywhere) without. It is difficult for some to surrender their 'equalizer' and let the balance of power shift to the criminal (who never has a problem carrying a gun, no matter what the law says)!

Bajaboy - 2-9-2013 at 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I've know people who did, and wouldn't go to Mexico (or anywhere) without. It is difficult for some to surrender their 'equalizer' and let the balance of power shift to the criminal (who never has a problem carrying a gun, no matter what the law says)!

Did they get on a plane or go to a courtroom :light:

DavidE - 2-9-2013 at 01:13 PM

The cops and the military are very familiar with underarm and in-the-small-of-the-back holsters. Sicarios use them. With TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS count on two years in el reclusorio "centro de rehabilitacion". Ever wonder what the INSIDE of the prison near Sta Rosalia is like in JULY?

Ken Cooke - 2-9-2013 at 01:17 PM

Quote:

I come across this regularly when I talk to Jeepers about my Baja trips. I *always* tell them not to look for trouble and it won't follow them around. Lots of people fear a sort of ciminal spillover from Juarez to the entire Baja peninsula.

sancho - 2-9-2013 at 01:44 PM

A few yrs. back, my brother in law borrowed a truck to
pick up some Mex furniture in Rosarito, asked me to go, he has a rather
Cavalier attitude on crossing the border, not me though.
While getting Ins at one of the drive in places, I thought
why not give the cab a once over, inside was some weed. rolling papers, 22 bullets and this 3 ' sword, I was relieved
I looked, but then I became PI$$ED OFF

DENNIS - 2-9-2013 at 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
inside was some weed. rolling papers, 22 bullets and this 3 ' sword,

And to think some people use that space for tools and other nonsense.

My personal detail in Baja

Ken Cooke - 2-9-2013 at 03:24 PM

Posing with my bodyguards in Downtown Tijuana

shari - 2-9-2013 at 03:43 PM

roger...you were one hot muchaco in the day!!!!

ddawson - 2-9-2013 at 04:22 PM

Six years ago I unknowingly made it to Abreojos with a few rounds of .223 in my cab. I had gone shooting the previous weekend and wasn't aware they were there. Not too smart. We had stopped on the beach and were surfing. After I found them my buddy freaked out on me and we then disposed of them. I was surprised at how many times the truck had been through checkpoints, and nothing was found. When packing, I know to always start with a vehicle check.

Islandbuilder - 2-9-2013 at 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
roger...you were one hot muchaco in the day!!!!

Shari, You may be due for some sensitivity re-training. Let me break it down for you: Consider editing your statement using my suggestions in CAPS.

RODGER....you were ONE HOT MUCHACHO in the day.

See how eliminating the modifiers improves your compliment?

You're welcome :biggrin:

shari - 2-9-2013 at 06:24 PM

why thank you kind sir....I think.

it's kinda funny because the local cops are always asking expats to bring them down ammo...they seem to be perpetually out of bullets....I'll settle for bagels and some maple syrup. :spingrin:

Bows? Crossbows?

neilm81301 - 2-10-2013 at 02:10 PM

I seem to recall from other threads that pellet/bb guns were OK in Baja -
Anybody know about bows or crossbows?

Thanks,

Neil

Pompano - 2-10-2013 at 06:03 PM

Some general info:

Found this earlier thread on bringing/using bows and crossbows to Mexico, Neil.

As with any laws in Mexico, always check and double-check. Never take anything for granted or pay attention to hearsay. Situations can change quickly. Note: Some pellet guns are illegal, some are not.

Some clarification on this is presented below from an airgun forum:

Dated 2007

"Hello Everyone..

I do not know if this post will be moved to off-topic since it is in reality a legal issue, but it is also airgun related, so we'll see.

I received this E-Mail from a friend:

"XXXX,

I just wanted to let you know that the Mexican Aduana is confiscating air rifles from people crossing the border in Juarez and Santa Teresa.

Is this legal? Is there a way to cross the border with an air rifle and not have it confiscated?

I would appreciate any information that you may have on this subject.

XXXXXX."

His reply: Of course the first response was that according to the Law, PCP's & CO2 powerplant driven guns can and should be confiscated at the border, but I offered to do a full research and report here for those brothers that live in the southern sections of the US and that might want to bring airguns into México, so here is the full nitty-gritty:

1.- International framework: The GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs & Trade) defined that airguns belonged to section 93.04.00. This is a worldwide classification, it has nothing to do with Mexican Laws. This section makes no distinction of the powerplant styles, ALL guns belong to this section. If they release a projectile, they are here.

2.- According to the Ley Federal de Armas de Fuego y Control de Explosivos (Mexican Federal Firearms Law) All airguns that store their power as compressed gases in reservoirs are classified as firearms for IMPORTATION purposes. Not for transportation, not for usage, not for licensing, for IMPORTATION purposes. In this sense, they require a previous permit for temporary or definitive importation. If the person bringing in the gun does not have a permit, customs officials are to issue a pink slip, and give 30 working days to the person to get the permit. If the permit is obtained, then the gun is released for importation into México. The person can opt not to cross the border, return and post himself to his US address the gun. The ONLY case where a confiscation is non-reversible is when the person FAILS TO DECLARE that he is bringing in an airgun. In that case, opposition to confiscation can result in charges and criminal prosecution. Not for the airgun, but for the FAILURE TO DECLARE.

3.- The Mexican Pneumatic Shooting Club started working with the equivalent of the USTR (Commerce Secretariat) and with the Army (Defense Secretariat) since the year 2000.
On the 25, November, 2002, we obtained from both Secretriats (the difficult part was to get them to agree on) a joint publication in the Official Gazette (Diario Oficial de la Federación), where the following precisions were made:

Page 17) Title.- "Acuerdo que establece la clasificación y codificación de las mercancías cuya importación ó exportación están sujetas a regulación por parte de la Secretaría de la Defensa Nacional". This means that ONLY the clarifications in this document are pertinent to the those materials and goods whose importation or exportation are regulated by the Army.

Page 20) Tariff 93.04.00.99 (other long guns, spring-piston driven, pressurized gases driven, except those under tariff 93.07.xx.xx), and then the Secretariats make the precision:
"Unicamente: de Gas comprimido en recipientes a presión, por ejemplo CO2 ó gas carbónico"
Meaning-> Only: Drive by compressed gases in pressure reservoirs, EG: CO2 or carbonic gas

This means that "a contrario sensu" (latin for thinking the other way around), the Spring Driven guns and Pump-ups are exempt from regulation, thereby exempted from previous permits and therefore, exempt from duties. In this way, those airguns that fit into those two powerplants, should be able to enter México freely.

There might be a tiff at the border with pump-ups because in essence, they have a built in pressure reservoir, but my feeling is that the precision is clear enough that only those guns that are pre-pressurized (the origin of the PCP moniker) and those that use CO2 (also a pre-pressurized container) are included in those that are regulated by SeDeNa (Army).

To follow up on other related things: ALL scopes are regulated (but not peeps) and ALL pellets are free of regulations (Tariff 93.06.29.99).

To anyone thinking of bringing in an airgun into México, either:
a) go through a hunt organizer that knows how to get temporary import permits
b) bring in ONLY springers or pump-ups with peeps and have a copy of the Diario Oficial de la Federación from the 26 of November 2002, handy.

XXX

Previous Nomad threads on archery in Baja:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=37766#pid4025...

http://www.dpll.si/files/bowhunting%20in%20the%20World%20200...

Crossbows are a different breed, in that they may have a trigger, and may indeed be illegal. CHECK! THEN DOUBLE-CHECK!

Cypress - 2-10-2013 at 06:13 PM

I wouldn't attempt take a gun into Mexico. :biggrin:

David K - 2-10-2013 at 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Posing with my bodyguards in Downtown Tijuana

There's a Bancolombia in downtown Tijuana??? :light:

OK to keep but not to bare

durrelllrobert - 2-10-2013 at 06:20 PM

A common misconception is that firearms are illegal in Mexico and that no person may possess them.[3] This belief originates due the general perception that only members of law enforcement, the armed forces, or those in armed security protection are authorized to have them. While it is true that Mexico possesses strict gun laws,[4] where most types and calibers are reserved to military and law enforcement, the acquisition andownership of certain firearms and ammunition remains a constitutional right to all Mexican citizens and foreign legal residents;[5] given the requirements and conditions to exercise such right are fulfilled in accordance to the law.[6]

The right to keep and bear arms was first recognized as a constitutional right under Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution of 1857.[7] However, as part of the Mexican Constitution of 1917, Article 10 was changed[8] where-by the right to keep and bear arms was given two separate definitions: theright to keep (derecho a poseer in Spanish) and the right to bear (derecho a portar in Spanish).[9] The new version of Article 10 specified that citizens were entitled to keep arms (own them) but may only bear them (carry them) among the population in accordance to police regulation.[10] Thismodification to Article 10 also introduced the so-called ...[arms] for exclusive use of the [military]... (in Spanish: ...de uso exclusivo del Ejército...), dictating that the law would stipulate which weapons were reserved for the armed forces, including law enforcement agencies, for being considered weapons of war.
In 1971, Article 10 of the present Constitution was reformed[11] to limit the right to keep arms within the home only (in Spanish: ...derecho a poseer armas en su domicilio...) and reserved the right to bear arms outside the home only to those explicitly authorized by law (i.e. police, military, armed security officers). The following year, the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives came into force[12] and gave the federal government complete jurisdiction and control to the legal proliferation of firearms in the country; at the same time, heavily limiting and restricting the legal access to firearms by civilians.
As a result of the changes to Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution and the enactment of the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives, openly carrying a firearm or carrying a concealed weapon in public is virtually forbidden to private citizens, unless explicitly authorized by the Secretariat of National Defense (SEDENA). For purposes of personal protection, firearms are only permitted within the place of residence and of the type and caliber permitted by law. (from Wikepedia.com)

Pompano - 2-10-2013 at 06:47 PM

Good info for Mexican citizens, durrelllroberts. Thanks for posting some Mexican history on this subject. As you know, foreigners face a far stricter set of laws and rules.

Most visitors to rural Baja who make friends with country folks, know that lots of Mexican rancher/citizens possess firearms. The .30 caliber being most popular for hi-power rifles. Rifles, pistols, & shotguns are prevalent throughout the countryside, as they are in most rural areas on the USA. Some Baja ranchers have become hunting guides with full credentials.

These are the guides with which a US hunter can and should be hunting.

Bajafun777 - 2-13-2013 at 10:48 PM

Hunted down in Los Mochis in the 80s and back then even with the paperwork approvals before we crossed in Nogales we still got held up with people stalling us until we gave the $100 dollars go ahead payment. We then had to buy all of our hunting ammo in Los Mochis at a government store approved to sell it to hunters.

There were lots of hunters from U.S. back then hunting in Los Mochis, as it was a great place to find more birds than you could ever shoot and clean. Yes, there were limits and yes we followed them especially with the government game guy riding with us. This government approved game guy riding with us each day cost us $30 dollars a day. Can not even think what the cost would be now for everything but do not hear of anybody hunting in Los Mochis like we use to either.

Just a little update here, I have just driven down from Nogales to Los Mochis then onward to Maztalan where I want to say I did not encounter one not one military check, NO JOKING!! We also did not have the Federals checking our car paperwork like the past years just really surprised us. I guess PRI is getting back to the basics and not hearing of any crazy shooting of late either but did hear about the 10 women raped. Getting different stories on that down here too, however I doubt that these women would all be screaming rape and the doctors examing them determined rape would say it was rape if it wasn't.

We have crazies all over and in all countries which makes our world a little more unsafe, so always be aware of your surroundings and hopefully that at least gives you an edge. I am getting slower so I need any edge I can get to stay safe. Take Care & Travel Safe------"No Hurry, No Worry, Just FUN" bajafun777