BajaNomad

Poza de Escuadra

MexicoTed - 3-6-2013 at 04:27 PM

A couple friends and I are finally planning a trip to see Mision Santa Maria de Los Angeles near Catavina. One friend mentioned hiking to Poza de Escuadra also. I know many Nomads have visited the mission, but how far is Poza de Escuadra from the mission?

Thanks,
Ted

brewer - 3-6-2013 at 06:12 PM

We have a place on Gonzaga and want to do the trek to the mission ruins. Does anyone know how far you can get from the east close to it. Driving a full size Dodge diesel.

Thanks for any info.

Barry A. - 3-6-2013 at 06:21 PM

Wow-----What a gorgous place to camp--------------great photos, guys.

Barry

David K - 3-6-2013 at 06:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by brewer
We have a place on Gonzaga and want to do the trek to the mission ruins. Does anyone know how far you can get from the east close to it. Driving a full size Dodge diesel.

Thanks for any info.


Yes, you can get as far as the entrance to the canyon facing Gonzaga Bay... about 1/4 mile past where the Camino Real mission trail leaves the arroyo on the north bank to climb to the top of the north ridge of the canyon, which it follows to the mission valley. About a 6 hour casual hike!

Some maps to give you an idea:

1962:



2008:



Now some of mine...
2002:



2007:



I have the GPS of both ends of the Camino Real (where it leaves Arroyo Santa Maria on the Gonzaga side and where it meets the auto road, 1.5 miles east of the mission). I have photos of those points too, in my web site trip pages.

The mission end of the Camino Real hike: http://vivabaja.com/msm/page8.html

The Gonzaga Bay end hike photos, and GPS begin here: http://www.vivabaja.com/1103/page2.html

GPS Directions (map datum NAD27 Mexico)

Take Hwy. 5 south 7.4 miles from Rancho Grande, turn west: 29°41.094'/ 114°24.566'

3.2 miles west of Hwy. 5, go straight where most traffic curves left for Las Palmitas: 29°41.278'/ 114°27.639'

0.8 miles from above, park at huge boulder: 29°41.68'/ 114°28.20'

Hike to north bank of Arroyo Santa Maria to: 29°41.733'/ 114°28.175' elev. 609' (ECR-1)

Go northwest and climb out of valley, note ocotillos.

Along left side of side valley: 29°42.374'/ 114°28.566' elev. 741' (ECR-2)

On first padre built switchback up: 29°42.669'/ 114°28.937' elev. 906' (ECR-3)

On a ridge, trail continues northwest: 29°42.671'/ 114°29.425' elev. 1308' (ECR-4)

On the Camino Real: 29°42.748'/ 114°29.482' elev. 1391' (ECR-5)

Crossing ridges and little mesas: 29°43.008'/ 114°29.967' elev. 1477' (ECR-6)

Drop along side of ridge, trail narrow: 29°43.074'/ 114°30.128' elev.1610' (ECR-7)

End of today's hike just beyond this last clear sign of the old trail: 29°43.141'/ 114°30.189' elev. 1702' (ECR-8)

Junction of ECR & bulldozed road: 29°43.126'/ 114°31.753' elev.1413'

(End of bulldozed road, on canyon ridge: 29°43.033'/ 114°31.556' elev. 1,615' )

Mision Santa Maria: 29°43.891'/ 114°32.794' elev.1628'

View east:



[Edited on 3-7-2013 by David K]

David K - 3-6-2013 at 06:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by brewer
We have a place on Gonzaga and want to do the trek to the mission ruins. Does anyone know how far you can get from the east close to it. Driving a full size Dodge diesel.

Thanks for any info.


Looking west, where the auto road ends and where the mission trail climbs up from the arroyo:



Looking towards the bay from above the mission:



[Edited on 3-7-2013 by David K]

Udo - 3-6-2013 at 07:25 PM

Kewl photo of the big horn sheeps, DK.

The only ones I ever got to see in Baja was on a hike to El Picacho Del Diablo quite a few years ago.

David K - 3-6-2013 at 09:09 PM

Thanks Udo... see more of them at http://vivabaja.com/msm

Evoking Baja's magick

Mulegena - 3-6-2013 at 09:44 PM

These photos bring you back to that place that's so peaceful and timeless, a trademark of the pristine beauty of this old world that is our Baja.
Mil Gracias!
How fortunate anyone is who gets to visit this remote place.

[Edited on 3-7-2013 by Mulegena]

David K - 3-7-2013 at 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mulegena
These photos bring you back to that place that's so peaceful and timeless, a trademark of the pristine beauty of this old world that is our Baja.
Mil Gracias!
How fortunate anyone is who gets to visit this remote place.

[Edited on 3-7-2013 by Mulegena]


De nada!

Baja is a wonderful place for exploring, adventuring, and going back in time!

My last trip to the mission was 2010 with 5 other Baja Nomad vehicles and lots of Baja Nomads having fun... even with some vehicle damage and breakdowns! The road to the mission is one of the great challenges Baja has to man and machine... under 15 miles, but a 3 hour drive!

See the 2010 Baja Nomad group trip: http://vivabaja.com/msm2010/

Barry A. - 3-7-2013 at 10:01 AM

David (and any others), does the road into the Mission Santa Maria seem to be deteriorating or staying the same over the years? (I think I know the answer, but just checking)

Barry

wilderone - 3-7-2013 at 10:30 AM

There are other pools (and stream), not difficult to get to, that are at the bottom of a hill about a mile as the crow flys from the mission. At the wide arroyo abovementioned, turn right and look for the old grading up a hill on the other side of the arroyo. Go up the hill; there are petroglyphs on the rocks at the top of the hill there. Then look down into the arroyo canyon and see the stream and pools of water. Study the hill where the petroglyphs are - you'll start to see a pathway, marked with ducks. I added twice as many when I went down, so there should be enough to spot. Hike down following these ducks which will provide the easiest way.

David K - 3-7-2013 at 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
David (and any others), does the road into the Mission Santa Maria seem to be deteriorating or staying the same over the years? (I think I know the answer, but just checking)

Barry


Barry, I can only give you my observations from the 4 times I have been over it: 1999, 2003, 2007, 2010. Body damage from the rocks occurred each time (the first time I was on a quad and the damage was to MY body, lol). However, the last time was the MOST difficult... and mostly because of the deep water in the bog that time (more scary than difficult) Baja Tripper had no lockers, so he needed a pull through it both ways and Neal with a blown rear differential needed to be pulled out through it... Also the sharp drop offs just before the mission (grabbed my bumper and Art's bumper). The Widowmaker remains as the one single big obstacle that a lot of people won't drive down, fearing they can't drive back up it. So, they walk that last 1.4 miles to the mission.

David K - 3-7-2013 at 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
There are other pools (and stream), not difficult to get to, that are at the bottom of a hill about a mile as the crow flys from the mission. At the wide arroyo abovementioned, turn right and look for the old grading up a hill on the other side of the arroyo. Go up the hill; there are petroglyphs on the rocks at the top of the hill there. Then look down into the arroyo canyon and see the stream and pools of water. Study the hill where the petroglyphs are - you'll start to see a pathway, marked with ducks. I added twice as many when I went down, so there should be enough to spot. Hike down following these ducks which will provide the easiest way.


This is the 'Indian Trail' (and was the first El Camino Real, used by the Jesuits and by Serra on his walk to San Diego). The canyon route was so difficult and dangerous, Serra ordered a better trail to be built and that is what we call the Camino Real today. It stays out of the canyon completely. You can make out the Indian Trail on Google Earth, even though it isn't the highest resolution in that section of Baja.

Indian trail going down to the canyon bottom from the end of the 'bulldozed road' (where construction from Santa Ynez to Punta Final was abandoned 40 years ago):



Top of Indian Trail/ End of bulldozed road:



Petros:



View back towards mission, from the end of the bulldozed road (2 miles from the mission):

BajaLucy - 3-7-2013 at 01:21 PM

This location sounds-looks like fun Im adding a mi lista D' Aventures en Baja :bounce:

BajaLucy - 3-7-2013 at 01:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by Mulegena
These photos bring you back to that place that's so peaceful and timeless, a trademark of the pristine beauty of this old world that is our Baja.
Mil Gracias!
How fortunate anyone is who gets to visit this remote place.

[Edited on 3-7-2013 by Mulegena]


De nada!

Baja is a wonderful place for exploring, adventuring, and going back in time!

My last trip to the mission was 2010 with 5 other Baja Nomad vehicles and lots of Baja Nomads having fun... even with some vehicle damage and breakdowns! The road to the mission is one of the great challenges Baja has to man and machine... under 15 miles, but a 3 hour drive!

Pretty neat Report! Saw your other link for your trip report 2010 how cool all vehicles even camper that's awesome sounds you all had a blast txs for posting'
See the 2010 Baja Nomad group trip: http://vivabaja.com/msm2010/

David K - 3-7-2013 at 01:33 PM

Because it is so difficult to get to, it is even more special to go there... That's the way it was to go to Gonzaga Bay, and other Baja places before they built new and paved roads... Bad roads act like a filter... keeps out the city riff raff... Mama Espinoza used to say "Bad Roads bring Good People... Good Roads bring All Kinds of People".

MexicoTed - 3-8-2013 at 03:34 PM

Hi David:

I asked my buddy where he heard of "Poza de Escuadra"and he said it was on a map he saw at the old La Pinta when he was there about 12 years ago. He said he has a photo, but can't find it yet. He said it looked like it was a mile or so away from the mission.

MexicoTed - 3-8-2013 at 03:36 PM

David:

I just did a search on Google just to make sure he wasn't nuts and found some mentions of Poza de Escuadra such as this;

"Perhaps the most magical part of Cataviña is its “La Poza de Escuadra,” a naturally occurring oasis in the middle of Cataviña’s desert. This oasis is said to possess actual magical qualities – but whether that is the water source or the air or something entirely different remains to be seen…or, perhaps, experienced!"

It came from this article (http://www.sandiegored.com/noticias/28827/Magical-Catavina-T...). Wonder if this is the same as your photos or a different place.

David K - 3-8-2013 at 04:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MexicoTed
David:

I just did a search on Google just to make sure he wasn't nuts and found some mentions of Poza de Escuadra such as this;

"Perhaps the most magical part of Cataviña is its “La Poza de Escuadra,” a naturally occurring oasis in the middle of Cataviña’s desert. This oasis is said to possess actual magical qualities – but whether that is the water source or the air or something entirely different remains to be seen…or, perhaps, experienced!"

It came from this article (http://www.sandiegored.com/noticias/28827/Magical-Catavina-T...). Wonder if this is the same as your photos or a different place.


That article has a few holes in it... The hotel at Cataviña is NOT the Hotel Mision Santa Maria (that is in San Quintin area), but is instead is the Hotel Mision Cataviña.

The actual mission of Santa Maria is 15 some miles east of Cataviña, is not mentioned. The article photo seems to be taken from the mission doorway, but when I go to the link given with that photo I find nothing about Santa Maria or Cataviña in their search engine...?

Saying it is "just south" of El Rosario is a bit off unless you consider over 70 miles being "just". The Transpenisular Highway construction crews actually met at San Ignacito, several miles south of Cataviña, in 1973. A plaque (now missing) was placed across from the now abandoned café, there.

One "giant" earthquake did not split Baja from the rest of Mexico, either... but maybe I am 'splitting hairs' now??? LOL

I do recall reading that oasis pool in my photos was called that name... I will see if I can find another source for you... But, it is approx. 1/2 to 1 mile east from the mission (as the crow flies).

[Edited on 3-8-2013 by David K]

David K - 3-8-2013 at 04:25 PM

Ted, here's a article written by Nomad 'Rockman' many years ago (before Nomad)... and he and his friends hiked to the mission from south of Cataviña, over the mountain. They then hiked on to near Gonzaga Bay... along the way he describes the oasis of my photos, but gives it no name. I still don't know who made up that name... Perhaps it was someone online the past few years? Sort of like how my calling the bad grade near the mission "Widowmaker" in 1999, and it stuck!

LINK: http://www.bajalife.com/v3pg40.htm

David K - 2-15-2016 at 11:05 AM

Bump for a Nomad asking about the Camino Real between the mission and Gonzaga Bay desert floor.

MexicoTed - 3-6-2016 at 11:54 PM

By the way David, I found a Facebook page of a group that went to the mission and Poza la Escuadra in November. I emailed the person in charge and he said it's the photo on the Facebook page. Did you ever see this oasis David?

https://www.facebook.com/events/709708172507273

David K - 3-7-2016 at 07:56 AM

Think that one is down in the canyon east of the mission. See Wilderone's reply above.

4x4abc - 3-7-2016 at 08:38 AM

the pool on the facebook page is 29°42'52.42"N, 114°31'29.69"W
I know it very well, been guiding tours there for 20 years

TMW - 3-7-2016 at 08:45 AM

Caution note:

If anyone plans to drive to the trail from the Gonzaga side the road going down into Arroyo Santa Maria was badly damaged from rain and not passable two years ago. There is a soft sand hill to the east maybe 100 yards that you can drive down but may not be able to drive back up. We did the drive into Las Palmitas in 2014 but had to take the Arroyo Santa Maria back to the new highway bridge. It was a lot of soft sand driving so air down accordingly.

David K - 3-7-2016 at 09:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
the pool on the facebook page is 29°42'52.42"N, 114°31'29.69"W
I know it very well, been guiding tours there for 20 years


Thank you Harald:

Here is a zoom-in on your GPS waypoint:



The mission is in the upper left and the road from Gonzaga is on the lower right ("Park Here"). The El Camino Real is tracked between the two. "Jcn ECR" is where the mission trail reached the auto road, about 1.5 miles from the mission. The hike on ECR between the Park Here and the mission will take about 5-6 hours, if not rushed.




The "Indian Trail" (Original El Camino Real route) is the one dropping down into the canyon from the ridge above, where the road construction from Rancho Santa Ynez ended in the 1960's.


The Pool Location. Thank you 4x4abc.

David K - 3-7-2016 at 09:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Caution note:

If anyone plans to drive to the trail from the Gonzaga side the road going down into Arroyo Santa Maria was badly damaged from rain and not passable two years ago. There is a soft sand hill to the east maybe 100 yards that you can drive down but may not be able to drive back up. We did the drive into Las Palmitas in 2014 but had to take the Arroyo Santa Maria back to the new highway bridge. It was a lot of soft sand driving so air down accordingly.


South of the big bridge on Hwy. 5 about 2.5 miles is the road to Las Palmitas and the Arroyo Santa María access. A new rancho (signed "Las Palmitas") was at the new paved highway junction. As TMW stated, the steep drop-off into the arroyo valley, 3 miles west of Hwy. 5, may be badly washed out and require driving in the arroyo sand from the new bridge. There is a road in the arroyo, but 4WD and deflating tires may be needed to easily drive the 5.6 miles in the arroyo. I am not sure about access from the arroyo up to the highway since the bridge was built.

PaulW - 10-23-2020 at 02:26 PM

Looks like one should drive off the approach at the n end of the bridge then one can plainly see a track (road) up the gully side which should lead to the old normal path. Lots of heavy traffic using that road. Last time I was their I Posted pics of that area. Can't find the pics now. Sorry no help.
Anyway I would not ever drive up the arroyo when I have other choices.

David K - 10-23-2020 at 02:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Looks like one should drive off the approach at the n end of the bridge then one can plainly see a track (road) up the gully side which should lead to the old normal path. Lots of heavy traffic using that road. Last time I was their I Posted pics of that area. Can't find the pics now. Sorry no help.
Anyway I would not ever drive up the arroyo when I have other choices.




As you can see on my map's mileage notes, I drove both the Las Palmitas/ Canyon access road and the Arroyo Santa María riverbed. The arroyo route was deep sand.

Now, there is a long bridge and a paved highway... and on both sides of the highway is a barb-wire fence that has cut off these historic roads into the desert. The last time I was there, in 2018, the Las Palmitas road (Km. 159) was cut off, but tracks to it, left the highway around Km. 158 and paralleled the highway back south to the original road west. The bridge is at Km. 155 and the fancy monument/ bridge viewing area is at Km. 154.5.


2018-11.jpg - 92kB




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