BajaNomad - San Pedro Martir Park

San Pedro Martir Park

bacquito - 4-13-2013 at 12:05 PM

Does anybody know of a phone # For San Pedro Martir-if so please provide. I want to know if a guide is needed to attempt San Pedro Martir climb-Blue Bottle, Camp Noche, the mountain.
I went to the tourist bureau in Ensenada (closed) and the Federales but with no success. I searched the web also with no results.
Thanks for any information

DavidE - 4-13-2013 at 12:15 PM

I used he Meling Rancho to hire out a guide. Please believe this: When you get deeper into the area, it is furrowed by a series of ridges without, and I mean absolutely without landmarks. Getting lost would be so easy. Maybe you have a better built-in sense of location than I do.

Not only would I hire a guide, I would carry a trusted GPS and establish waypoints. I did fine in Sierra Nevada Wilderness areas but San Pedro Martir was utterly different.

The cutthroat trout are small and spook easily but a #16 Mary Lake Special fly on a 2X tippet works wonders. The fish are delicious. But I wonder if they are protected now.

bacquito - 4-13-2013 at 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
I used he Meling Rancho to hire out a guide. Please believe this: When you get deeper into the area, it is furrowed by a series of ridges without, and I mean absolutely without landmarks. Getting lost would be so easy. Maybe you have a better built-in sense of location than I do.

Not only would I hire a guide, I would carry a trusted GPS and establish waypoints. I did fine in Sierra Nevada Wilderness areas but San Pedro Martir was utterly different.

The cutthroat trout are small and spook easily but a #16 Mary Lake Special fly on a 2X tippet works wonders. The fish are delicious. But I wonder if they are protected now.

Thanks, I do have a GPS and I hope to get an idea of locations via Google Earth (Camp Noche) before we leave.

woody with a view - 4-13-2013 at 12:51 PM

check u2u

Bajaboy - 4-13-2013 at 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
check u2u

nothing there :?:

woody with a view - 4-13-2013 at 01:01 PM

keep looking, it's a big place! :lol:

mtgoat666 - 4-13-2013 at 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bacquito
Does anybody know of a phone # For San Pedro Martir-if so please provide. I want to know if a guide is needed to attempt San Pedro Martir climb-Blue Bottle, Camp Noche, the mountain.
I went to the tourist bureau in Ensenada (closed) and the Federales but with no success. I searched the web also with no results.
Thanks for any information

The park has a Facebook page, listing tele in Ensenada. https://www.facebook.com/SanPedroMartir

Also some other Facebook pages of other nat parks, so call around until you get an answer,... Also ask astrobaja nomad about tele numbers, he lives nearby.

Climbing guides are "encouraged" by park staff when you look like you need one... Park seems to be getting more $$ and visitors, so seems to have more staff making rules,... And so it goes,... Every new jefe has ideas for new rules, not doing their job unless they make a few new rules every year, and df probably likes issuing new fiats to keep locals on their toes,...

It is easy to get lost on plateau, topography is nondescript, and trail to blue bottle, picacho is challenge to navigate first time, even second time,... GPS may help, but compass and schad's map is helpful. Several people have put up websites travelogues with trail waypoints for use in GPS unit,...

Beautiful hike, even if you only do blue bottle, which anyone can climb safely, assuming you got navigation skills and moderate conditioning. Long single day hike to do blue bottle, but beautiful area to camp below blue bottle, or at pass if no t storms...

mtgoat666 - 4-13-2013 at 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bacquito
Thanks, I do have a GPS and I hope to get an idea of locations via Google Earth (Camp Noche) before we leave.

Google earth does not show good or reliable images in areas of steep terrain. Get jerry schad's map.

David K - 4-14-2013 at 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by bacquito
Thanks, I do have a GPS and I hope to get an idea of locations via Google Earth (Camp Noche) before we leave.

Google earth does not show good or reliable images in areas of steep terrain. Get jerry schad's map.

See it online here (the Diablo climb route): http://www.dankat.com/swhikes/maps/devil.htm

mcfez - 4-14-2013 at 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Excellent find Goat! Txs

Maderita - 4-15-2013 at 01:46 AM

bacquito,
Your question as to whether a guide is needed - are you asking if it is a legal / Parque Nacional requirement? Or, are you asking if it is advisable to hire a guide?

There is no requirement to hire a guide. If you have to ask if it is advisable to hire a guide, then that suggests that for you, the answer is yes. Either hire a guide, or find a more knowledgeable and experienced partner.

Many people have problems with routefinding. The approach to Campo Noche is long and strenuous. Many climbers then encounter difficulty either finding or staying on the third class route to the summit. Getting off route will put you on to 4th and 5th class rock. Those who don't have technical rock climbing experience will find one 3rd class section to be scary.

IMHO, every route on Picacho del Diablo should be taken quite seriously. A lot can go wrong. A rattlesnake bite or a bad sprain could cause a major ordeal. It's a long way from help. A good prerequisite would be several Sierra Nevada 3rd & 4th class peaks.

April/May is the best time for an approach from the plateau. There will be reliable water sources. The gullies should be free of snow/ice. Long daylight hours. Most parties take longer than anticipated. For a first time there, plan on no less than 3 days.

Approach shoes with "sticky rubber" will feel much more secure on the 3rd class sections than would mountaineering boots. Pack light. It's tough terrain to be carrying a heavy pack in and out of Camp Noche.

I don't want to scare you off. It's a fun route, and it will certainly feel like a major accomplishment. Just take it seriously and do your homework thoroughly before you go.

mtgoat666 - 4-15-2013 at 07:45 AM

Anyone planning to climb picacho diablo and feeling uncertain should consider doing blue bottle first, to get lay of the land. It's a beautiful area, making several separate trips to SPM isn't an ordeal, it's a pleasure.

bacquito - 4-15-2013 at 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maderita
bacquito,
Your question as to whether a guide is needed - are you asking if it is a legal / Parque Nacional requirement? Or, are you asking if it is advisable to hire a guide?

There is no requirement to hire a guide. If you have to ask if it is advisable to hire a guide, then that suggests that for you, the answer is yes. Either hire a guide, or find a more knowledgeable and experienced partner.

Many people have problems with routefinding. The approach to Campo Noche is long and strenuous. Many climbers then encounter difficulty either finding or staying on the third class route to the summit. Getting off route will put you on to 4th and 5th class rock. Those who don't have technical rock climbing experience will find one 3rd class section to be scary.

IMHO, every route on Picacho del Diablo should be taken quite seriously. A lot can go wrong. A rattlesnake bite or a bad sprain could cause a major ordeal. It's a long way from help. A good prerequisite would be several Sierra Nevada 3rd & 4th class peaks.

April/May is the best time for an approach from the plateau. There will be reliable water sources. The gullies should be free of snow/ice. Long daylight hours. Most parties take longer than anticipated. For a first time there, plan on no less than 3 days.

Approach shoes with "sticky rubber" will feel much more secure on the 3rd class sections than would mountaineering boots. Pack light. It's tough terrain to be carrying a heavy pack in and out of Camp Noche.

I don't want to scare you off. It's a fun route, and it will certainly feel like a major accomplishment. Just take it seriously and do your homework thoroughly before you go.

Thanks for the comment.

bacquito - 4-15-2013 at 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
Anyone planning to climb picacho diablo and feeling uncertain should consider doing blue bottle first, to get lay of the land. It's a beautiful area, making several separate trips to SPM isn't an ordeal, it's a pleasure.

Thanks for your response, my stepson and I climbed Blue Bottle about a year ago. Climbing at 8000+ ft was a challenge but enjoyable. I do have a gps and Desert Rat and Graham are experienced in the area.

telephone

J.P. - 4-15-2013 at 08:34 AM

646 172 3000 tel

646 172 3141 fax

Suggest

bajaguy - 4-15-2013 at 08:40 AM

Paper maps of the area and a good compass to supplement your GPS.

Also suggest you invest in a SPOT Satellite Messinger:

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

Have a great trip and stay safe!!!

Maderita - 4-15-2013 at 11:20 AM

bacquito,
Since you have successfully found the summit of Blue Bottle, the remainder of the navigation to Campo Noche has unobstructed views.

There are a couple of gullies, incl. Gorin's gulley which descend into Diablo Canyon ("Bluebottle Wash" on the map linked above). Not sure which is the best, but stay out of the gullies. They have huge boulders and steep steps/dropoffs. Instead, follow the consistent slope on the ridge to the side of the gulley.

bacquito - 4-15-2013 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Excellent find Goat! Txs

Double the thanks.

Maderita - 4-16-2013 at 02:40 AM

Desert Rat,
Interesting that you were met with a such a hard line by the ranger. So, what was the outcome? Were you allowed to climb without a guide? Was this an attempt to extort mordida from you?

I haven't been on the mountain in maybe 20 years. I have no first-hand experience on the guide matter. My rock climbing partners from Tijuana and Mexicali have never hired a guide, despite numerous trips in recent years. However, they wouldn't be asking for permission to climb, and would know how to manipulate any bureaucratic obstacles. Perhaps citizens of Baja may be treated leniently or they may have some special consideration due to being the best technical climbers in Baja.

The situation may be much like most everything else in Mexico; the rules change depending upon which official you talk with and on which day.

If there is any question about the requirement for a guide, then don't tell a ranger of any plans other than hiking. Right?

Maderita - 4-16-2013 at 11:04 PM

Desert Rat,
Thanks for those informative details.
It's a fair bet that the current situation is the same. Government almost never relaxes their restrictive policies. Instead, they add more rules.

Unless you get official information or obtain written permission in advance, it looks like you are left with two choices. Hire an "approved" guide (whatever that may be), or make a clandestine climb. The third alternative, an approach from the desert, is a lousy one. Temperatures will be hitting 100 F. in the next couple weeks.

Personally, I'm used to the covert methods, so that would be an easy #1 choice. The restrictive policies by USFS and NPS have forced climbers to become adept at manipulating. It would be hard to get any climbing done in Yosemite or the Sierra Nevada by following the rules.

Hope I didn't offend anyone when I replied to bacquito's original post. It was not apparent that he was familiar with the area, and his question was ambiguous. It is now clear that your party has plenty of experience with the approach route.

Has anyone in your party done the peak from Campo Noche? If you need gear recommendations, feel free to hit me up. e-mail to: ClimbBaja [at] aol [dot] com

I'd enjoy seeing photos and reading a trip report when you return. This site could use more adventure trip reports. No doubt you will make the summit this year. Buena suerte!

mtgoat666 - 4-17-2013 at 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Desert Rat
Maderita,
I had been to the Parque 3 times before the latest trip and was never questioned about having a guide. In fact one time the ranger escorted me to the Blue Bottle trail-head and wished me luck on my attempt. However, on the last trip, I was told about the new regulation concerning a guide. If I had known before hand about the regulation, then I would have used the eastern route up Diablo Canyon. Not, knowing about the regulation before hand when questioned as to what my plans were while at the Parque, I naturally told the ranger that I was going to climb Picacho. That's when he informed me that, "No you aren't, not without a guide." He said that the new regulation was made due to the fact that too many search and rescue missions had been made over the past two years. The regulation would reduce the need for the S & R missions.
I understood his point, but I was still exasperated and frustrated over the situation.
I had driven over a thousand miles to do the climb and to be denied the chance to do it was disheartening. I considered making the attempt anyway but decided to just hike to Blue Bottle and roam around the area for two days and then go home.

I don't think it was an attempt at extortion because written in the Parque guide hand-out was a statement that access to certain areas were restricted to hikers. To access these areas, the ranger's permission was needed and a guide was necessary.

[Edited on 4-17-2013 by Desert Rat]

there are online climbing forums you can ask about guide requirements. there is one in san diego. also there is a tijuana climbing club, and a mexicali climbing club. sorry, dont have links, but a bit of googling will find them. they are best place to ask for recent experience with park staff