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bacquito
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 3-6-2007
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Mood: jubilado
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San Pedro Martir Park
Does anybody know of a phone # For San Pedro Martir-if so please provide. I want to know if a guide is needed to attempt San Pedro Martir climb-Blue
Bottle, Camp Noche, the mountain.
I went to the tourist bureau in Ensenada (closed) and the Federales but with no success. I searched the web also with no results.
Thanks for any information
bacquito
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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I used he Meling Rancho to hire out a guide. Please believe this: When you get deeper into the area, it is furrowed by a series of ridges without, and
I mean absolutely without landmarks. Getting lost would be so easy. Maybe you have a better built-in sense of location than I do.
Not only would I hire a guide, I would carry a trusted GPS and establish waypoints. I did fine in Sierra Nevada Wilderness areas but San Pedro Martir
was utterly different.
The cutthroat trout are small and spook easily but a #16 Mary Lake Special fly on a 2X tippet works wonders. The fish are delicious. But I wonder if
they are protected now.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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bacquito
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 3-6-2007
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Mood: jubilado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
I used he Meling Rancho to hire out a guide. Please believe this: When you get deeper into the area, it is furrowed by a series of ridges without, and
I mean absolutely without landmarks. Getting lost would be so easy. Maybe you have a better built-in sense of location than I do.
Not only would I hire a guide, I would carry a trusted GPS and establish waypoints. I did fine in Sierra Nevada Wilderness areas but San Pedro Martir
was utterly different.
The cutthroat trout are small and spook easily but a #16 Mary Lake Special fly on a 2X tippet works wonders. The fish are delicious. But I wonder if
they are protected now. |
Thanks, I do have a GPS and I hope to get an idea of locations via Google Earth (Camp Noche) before we leave.
bacquito
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15940
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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check u2u
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
check u2u |
nothing there
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15940
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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keep looking, it's a big place!
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20377
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bacquito
Does anybody know of a phone # For San Pedro Martir-if so please provide. I want to know if a guide is needed to attempt San Pedro Martir climb-Blue
Bottle, Camp Noche, the mountain.
I went to the tourist bureau in Ensenada (closed) and the Federales but with no success. I searched the web also with no results.
Thanks for any information |
The park has a Facebook page, listing tele in Ensenada. https://www.facebook.com/SanPedroMartir
Also some other Facebook pages of other nat parks, so call around until you get an answer,... Also ask astrobaja nomad about tele numbers, he lives
nearby.
Climbing guides are "encouraged" by park staff when you look like you need one... Park seems to be getting more $$ and visitors, so seems to have more
staff making rules,... And so it goes,... Every new jefe has ideas for new rules, not doing their job unless they make a few new rules every year,
and df probably likes issuing new fiats to keep locals on their toes,...
It is easy to get lost on plateau, topography is nondescript, and trail to blue bottle, picacho is challenge to navigate first time, even second
time,... GPS may help, but compass and schad's map is helpful. Several people have put up websites travelogues with trail waypoints for use in GPS
unit,...
Beautiful hike, even if you only do blue bottle, which anyone can climb safely, assuming you got navigation skills and moderate conditioning. Long
single day hike to do blue bottle, but beautiful area to camp below blue bottle, or at pass if no t storms...
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20377
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bacquito
Thanks, I do have a GPS and I hope to get an idea of locations via Google Earth (Camp Noche) before we leave. |
Google earth does not show good or reliable images in areas of steep terrain. Get jerry schad's map.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65411
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by bacquito
Thanks, I do have a GPS and I hope to get an idea of locations via Google Earth (Camp Noche) before we leave. |
Google earth does not show good or reliable images in areas of steep terrain. Get jerry schad's map. |
See it online here (the Diablo climb route): http://www.dankat.com/swhikes/maps/devil.htm
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by bacquito
Does anybody know of a phone # For San Pedro Martir-if so please provide. I want to know if a guide is needed to attempt San Pedro Martir climb-Blue
Bottle, Camp Noche, the mountain.
I went to the tourist bureau in Ensenada (closed) and the Federales but with no success. I searched the web also with no results.
Thanks for any information |
The park has a Facebook page, listing tele in Ensenada. https://www.facebook.com/SanPedroMartir
Also some other Facebook pages of other nat parks, so call around until you get an answer,... Also ask astrobaja nomad about tele numbers, he lives
nearby.
Climbing guides are "encouraged" by park staff when you look like you need one... Park seems to be getting more $$ and visitors, so seems to have more
staff making rules,... And so it goes,... Every new jefe has ideas for new rules, not doing their job unless they make a few new rules every year,
and df probably likes issuing new fiats to keep locals on their toes,...
It is easy to get lost on plateau, topography is nondescript, and trail to blue bottle, picacho is challenge to navigate first time, even second
time,... GPS may help, but compass and schad's map is helpful. Several people have put up websites travelogues with trail waypoints for use in GPS
unit,...
Beautiful hike, even if you only do blue bottle, which anyone can climb safely, assuming you got navigation skills and moderate conditioning. Long
single day hike to do blue bottle, but beautiful area to camp below blue bottle, or at pass if no t storms... |
Excellent find Goat! Txs
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 695
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
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bacquito,
Your question as to whether a guide is needed - are you asking if it is a legal / Parque Nacional requirement? Or, are you asking if it is advisable
to hire a guide?
There is no requirement to hire a guide. If you have to ask if it is advisable to hire a guide, then that suggests that for you, the answer is yes.
Either hire a guide, or find a more knowledgeable and experienced partner.
Many people have problems with routefinding. The approach to Campo Noche is long and strenuous. Many climbers then encounter difficulty either finding
or staying on the third class route to the summit. Getting off route will put you on to 4th and 5th class rock. Those who don't have technical rock
climbing experience will find one 3rd class section to be scary.
IMHO, every route on Picacho del Diablo should be taken quite seriously. A lot can go wrong. A rattlesnake bite or a bad sprain could cause a major
ordeal. It's a long way from help. A good prerequisite would be several Sierra Nevada 3rd & 4th class peaks.
April/May is the best time for an approach from the plateau. There will be reliable water sources. The gullies should be free of snow/ice. Long
daylight hours. Most parties take longer than anticipated. For a first time there, plan on no less than 3 days.
Approach shoes with "sticky rubber" will feel much more secure on the 3rd class sections than would mountaineering boots. Pack light. It's tough
terrain to be carrying a heavy pack in and out of Camp Noche.
I don't want to scare you off. It's a fun route, and it will certainly feel like a major accomplishment. Just take it seriously and do your homework
thoroughly before you go.
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20377
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Online
Mood: Hot n spicy
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Anyone planning to climb picacho diablo and feeling uncertain should consider doing blue bottle first, to get lay of the land. It's a beautiful area,
making several separate trips to SPM isn't an ordeal, it's a pleasure.
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bacquito
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 3-6-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: jubilado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Maderita
bacquito,
Your question as to whether a guide is needed - are you asking if it is a legal / Parque Nacional requirement? Or, are you asking if it is advisable
to hire a guide?
There is no requirement to hire a guide. If you have to ask if it is advisable to hire a guide, then that suggests that for you, the answer is yes.
Either hire a guide, or find a more knowledgeable and experienced partner.
Many people have problems with routefinding. The approach to Campo Noche is long and strenuous. Many climbers then encounter difficulty either finding
or staying on the third class route to the summit. Getting off route will put you on to 4th and 5th class rock. Those who don't have technical rock
climbing experience will find one 3rd class section to be scary.
IMHO, every route on Picacho del Diablo should be taken quite seriously. A lot can go wrong. A rattlesnake bite or a bad sprain could cause a major
ordeal. It's a long way from help. A good prerequisite would be several Sierra Nevada 3rd & 4th class peaks.
April/May is the best time for an approach from the plateau. There will be reliable water sources. The gullies should be free of snow/ice. Long
daylight hours. Most parties take longer than anticipated. For a first time there, plan on no less than 3 days.
Approach shoes with "sticky rubber" will feel much more secure on the 3rd class sections than would mountaineering boots. Pack light. It's tough
terrain to be carrying a heavy pack in and out of Camp Noche.
I don't want to scare you off. It's a fun route, and it will certainly feel like a major accomplishment. Just take it seriously and do your homework
thoroughly before you go. |
Thanks for the comment.
bacquito
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bacquito
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 3-6-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: jubilado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
Anyone planning to climb picacho diablo and feeling uncertain should consider doing blue bottle first, to get lay of the land. It's a beautiful area,
making several separate trips to SPM isn't an ordeal, it's a pleasure. |
Thanks for your response, my stepson and I climbed Blue Bottle about a year ago. Climbing at 8000+ ft was a challenge but enjoyable. I do have a gps
and Desert Rat and Graham are experienced in the area.
bacquito
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J.P.
Super Nomad
Posts: 1673
Registered: 7-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
Mood: Easy Does It
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telephone
646 172 3000 tel
646 172 3141 fax
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Suggest
Paper maps of the area and a good compass to supplement your GPS.
Also suggest you invest in a SPOT Satellite Messinger:
http://www.findmespot.com/en/
Have a great trip and stay safe!!!
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 695
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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bacquito,
Since you have successfully found the summit of Blue Bottle, the remainder of the navigation to Campo Noche has unobstructed views.
There are a couple of gullies, incl. Gorin's gulley which descend into Diablo Canyon ("Bluebottle Wash" on the map linked above). Not sure which is
the best, but stay out of the gullies. They have huge boulders and steep steps/dropoffs. Instead, follow the consistent slope on the ridge to the side
of the gulley.
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bacquito
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 3-6-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: jubilado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by bacquito
Does anybody know of a phone # For San Pedro Martir-if so please provide. I want to know if a guide is needed to attempt San Pedro Martir climb-Blue
Bottle, Camp Noche, the mountain.
I went to the tourist bureau in Ensenada (closed) and the Federales but with no success. I searched the web also with no results.
Thanks for any information |
The park has a Facebook page, listing tele in Ensenada. https://www.facebook.com/SanPedroMartir
Also some other Facebook pages of other nat parks, so call around until you get an answer,... Also ask astrobaja nomad about tele numbers, he lives
nearby.
Climbing guides are "encouraged" by park staff when you look like you need one... Park seems to be getting more $$ and visitors, so seems to have more
staff making rules,... And so it goes,... Every new jefe has ideas for new rules, not doing their job unless they make a few new rules every year,
and df probably likes issuing new fiats to keep locals on their toes,...
It is easy to get lost on plateau, topography is nondescript, and trail to blue bottle, picacho is challenge to navigate first time, even second
time,... GPS may help, but compass and schad's map is helpful. Several people have put up websites travelogues with trail waypoints for use in GPS
unit,...
Beautiful hike, even if you only do blue bottle, which anyone can climb safely, assuming you got navigation skills and moderate conditioning. Long
single day hike to do blue bottle, but beautiful area to camp below blue bottle, or at pass if no t storms... |
Excellent find Goat! Txs |
Double the thanks.
bacquito
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 695
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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Desert Rat,
Interesting that you were met with a such a hard line by the ranger. So, what was the outcome? Were you allowed to climb without a guide? Was this an
attempt to extort mordida from you?
I haven't been on the mountain in maybe 20 years. I have no first-hand experience on the guide matter. My rock climbing partners from Tijuana and
Mexicali have never hired a guide, despite numerous trips in recent years. However, they wouldn't be asking for permission to climb, and would know
how to manipulate any bureaucratic obstacles. Perhaps citizens of Baja may be treated leniently or they may have some special consideration due to
being the best technical climbers in Baja.
The situation may be much like most everything else in Mexico; the rules change depending upon which official you talk with and on which day.
If there is any question about the requirement for a guide, then don't tell a ranger of any plans other than hiking. Right?
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 695
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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Desert Rat,
Thanks for those informative details.
It's a fair bet that the current situation is the same. Government almost never relaxes their restrictive policies. Instead, they add more rules.
Unless you get official information or obtain written permission in advance, it looks like you are left with two choices. Hire an "approved" guide
(whatever that may be), or make a clandestine climb. The third alternative, an approach from the desert, is a lousy one. Temperatures will be hitting
100 F. in the next couple weeks.
Personally, I'm used to the covert methods, so that would be an easy #1 choice. The restrictive policies by USFS and NPS have forced climbers to
become adept at manipulating. It would be hard to get any climbing done in Yosemite or the Sierra Nevada by following the rules.
Hope I didn't offend anyone when I replied to bacquito's original post. It was not apparent that he was familiar with the area, and his question was
ambiguous. It is now clear that your party has plenty of experience with the approach route.
Has anyone in your party done the peak from Campo Noche? If you need gear recommendations, feel free to hit me up. e-mail to: ClimbBaja [at] aol [dot]
com
I'd enjoy seeing photos and reading a trip report when you return. This site could use more adventure trip reports. No doubt you will make the summit
this year. Buena suerte!
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