BajaNomad - [b]MEXICALI PLOCIE[/b]

[b]MEXICALI PLOCIE[/b]

El Comadante Loco - 5-27-2013 at 11:05 AM

I know this theme has been beat to death on this board but here is my story:

On Sunday May 26 at approximately 7:45 pm I was pulled over by Mexicali Police only 4 blocks from making my turn into the border crossing lanes. I almost made it. The reason for the stop, tail lights on the trailer not working. True, I knew that for a fact but I did not have a new set, tried to fix them but to no avail. On the trailer I had two quads which I was bringing home for the summer from my San Felipe house.
So the cop pulls me over and says trailer turn signal and break lights not working. We talk for a while and tell him I am coming back from San Felipe. He asks for the usual license and registration then he asks for papers for the quads I tell him they are at home in El Centro. Should have brought the papers with me but there is first time for everything. Now, this is where the game changes, so he tells that the lights are a minor traffic infraction but since I do not have the papers for the quads that we need to go the Comandancia and since I live in El Centro I can wait there until my wife brings the papers for the quads. This conversation goes on for a few minutes and he keeps repeating that we must to the Comandancia. I am tired want to get home, shower and have dinner. At this point there never is any discussion of a mordida. He had turned the tables on me so I took the initiative and said let's work this out so I do not have to go the Comandancia and you can resume your duties instead of spending all the time needed to go to the Comandancia. I asked him what the thought was reasonable he again turned it back on me. I told him all my money had been spent in San Felipe and that I could only afford $20 to which he made a half a turn and said no. Again I said that was all I had so I guess we were going to the Comandancia. He said ok give me the money in the truck. The deal was done and I was on my way except I told that I did not want to be stopped again by one of his compradres and asked him if he would follow me to my turn, he agreed and and give an escort which his lights flashing to my turn off..
In short it was worth the $20 to avoid waiting for the quad papers and not peeing off my wife as she would have had to bring the papers but what I enjoyed most was the police escort with lights flashing.. $20 well spent

What would you do?

chuckie - 5-27-2013 at 11:07 AM

Bring the papers and fix the lights...DUH!

woody with a view - 5-27-2013 at 11:10 AM

yeah, what Chuckie said, but still a fun end to the trip!

DENNIS - 5-27-2013 at 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco

What would you do?

Exactly as you did. Mordida is for the guilty, and you were guilty. That's how it was designed.
Had it been a BS charge, my reaction would be different.
By the way....you got off easy. It could have been ten times the price.

Bruce R Leech - 5-27-2013 at 11:23 AM

If you don't want trouble with the police then dont brake the law.and when you do don't feed the bears it makes it tough on the rest of us. in therty years of Baja I have never paid a bribe.

Paladin - 5-27-2013 at 11:32 AM

Nice to see you back.

I still love your dictionary. :lol:

DaliDali - 5-27-2013 at 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
If you don't want trouble with the police then dont brake the law.and when you do don't feed the bears it makes it tough on the rest of us. in therty years of Baja I have never paid a bribe.

It is my contention that if your "culpable" a fine is warranted.
In order to facilitate the best use of the the local constables time,
payment of your "fine on the spot" is a win win for everyone involved.

Your guilty....you paid your fine.
Call it mordita or call it a bribe.....guilty is guilty and once the fine is paid, all parties can get back to what they were doing.

Terry28 - 5-27-2013 at 11:52 AM

It;s easy for others to say what they "would do" when they are not in your shoes...You did what most of us would do..$20 well spent. And lesson learned. The tail light issue alone would have cost you the 20...

desertcpl - 5-27-2013 at 11:58 AM

OP

you did exactly what you had to do under the circumstances ,
and Dennis is right you really got off cheap,,

and why would you get on the road when you knew your trailer lights are not working, it should have been an easy fix in San Felipe
and you also must have known about having paper work on the Quads,, they have been cracking down on this now for years.

DENNIS - 5-27-2013 at 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paladin
Nice to see you back.

I still love your dictionary. :lol:

His dictionary says "Dickshunery."

Bruce R Leech - 5-27-2013 at 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote:

so are you saying it is ok to brake the law if it saves you money?

motoged - 5-27-2013 at 12:46 PM

"Braking" the law at the "boarder"..... :lol:

DENNIS - 5-27-2013 at 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
so are you saying it is ok to brake the law if it saves you money?

He didn't say anything like that, Bruce.

Bruce R Leech - 5-27-2013 at 01:01 PM

DENNIS it is illeagle to bribe the police

DaliDali - 5-27-2013 at 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
DENNIS it is illeagle to bribe the police

Go ahead and stand on "legal"....it's all up to you.

Paying a "on the spot" fine is just the way it works, not only in MX, but many other countries as well.

You know this....and fighting the "way it works" will only cause you aggravation, time and the very real possibility of paying more.

If a traveler feels he/she is only being shaken down to extract some "tea money", or taco money....then by all means go visit the Juez and plead your case.

And, as you well know, more often than not, the local constable will simply give you a verbal warning with your promise to "no ofendan" again.

Standing on your supposed "legal rights" and the debating the overall legality of offering an "on the spot" fine payment, is best left to those with nothing better to do.

Like the system or not.....it IS the way it works in MX.

Bruce R Leech - 5-27-2013 at 01:51 PM

that is all I was saying is for many it is ok to brake the law if it saves them time or money, the only way that mordida survives is because there are enough people with out enough integrity to say no to the bite.

El Comadante Loco - 5-27-2013 at 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
that is all I was saying is for many it is ok to brake the law if it saves them time or money, the only way that mordida survives is because there are enough people with out enough integrity to say no to the bite.

Well it is good for me to know that I lack the moral fortitude and integrity to "JUST SAY NO" but in this case I am doubly guilty since I initiated the mordida however it comforts me to know that my action is in line the vast majority of local population as well as other Nomads

Udo - 5-27-2013 at 02:14 PM

IMHO...

you did the right thing...you were guilty and paid the fine that YOU determined.

Most other cops would have told you..."follow me to the nearest ATM machine"...IF they were after mordida.

Bruce R Leech - 5-27-2013 at 02:15 PM

it is OK for me because most of the others are doing it.

sounds like a teenager.

Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can be regarded as the opposite of hypocrisy,[1] in that integrity regards internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs.

mtgoat666 - 5-27-2013 at 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
I know this theme has been beat to death on this board but here is my story:

On Sunday May 26 at approximately 7:45 pm I was pulled over by Mexicali Police only 4 blocks from making my turn into the border crossing lanes. I almost made it. The reason for the stop, tail lights on the trailer not working. True, I knew that for a fact but I did not have a new set, tried to fix them but to no avail.

driving at night w/o working lights endangers everyone else on the road. really is no credible excuse for driving at night w/o lights! just don't drive until you fix them!

El Comadante Loco - 5-27-2013 at 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

driving at night w/o working lights endangers everyone else on the road. really is no credible excuse for driving at night w/o lights! just don't drive until you fix them!

Running lights were on., right turn and stop light were not working.. I suspect a short some place in the wiring. Bulb was ok... This is not an excuse just the facts...

El Comadante Loco - 5-27-2013 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
it is OK for me because most of the others are doing it.

sounds like a teenager.

Oh to be young again

I will tell that in my career I have been offered bribes or gifts and due to my lack of integrity I summarily refused them all.

Bruce R Leech - 5-27-2013 at 03:53 PM

if you wont take them why give them. it dosent make it ok to be wrong just becalus you were right once :lol:

DENNIS - 5-27-2013 at 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can be regarded as the opposite of hypocrisy,[1] in that integrity regards internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs.

At least, speaking of integrity, you should be giving your source of what you cut 'n pasted above, because it sure as hell wasn't you talking, Bruce.

And, while you're at it, try applying that booolchit to the police for a change, instead of the victim.

What the eff are you doing over there in Ensenada, Bruce? Teaching preschool? Quit talking to us like we're children without morals.

.

[Edited on 5-27-2013 by DENNIS]

Lee - 5-27-2013 at 03:59 PM

What a great story with a great ending. Too bad things aren't that easy NOB.

Senor Loco showed good form and negotiation skills. Looks like a win/win to me.

norte - 5-27-2013 at 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
What a great story with a great ending. Too bad things aren't that easy NOB.

Senor Loco showed good form and negotiation skills. Looks like a win/win to me.

What are you smoking, again? That happen up here you would want someones head.

DENNIS - 5-27-2013 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
What a great story with a great ending. Too bad things aren't that easy NOB.

Senor Loco showed good form and negotiation skills. Looks like a win/win to me.

What are you smoking, again? That happen up here you would want someones head.

I'm guessing Lee knows of where he speaks.

Lee - 5-27-2013 at 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
That happen up here you would want someones head.

If what happened?

Brake lights out? Negotiating the citation? The win/win?

I'm saying that the outcome for Senor Loco was a positive one. The LE officer even had a chance to escort a US citizen to the Border with his lights on. AND he made some bucks.

I'm getting goose bumps thinking about it.

In fact, next time I roll through Tecate, the first cop I see I'll approach and ask if he'll escort me to the Border -- for some pesos.

Maybe Ciudad too.

norte - 5-27-2013 at 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
That happen up here you would want someones head.

Go ahead play dumb...you are good at it.

CortezBlue - 5-27-2013 at 08:31 PM

Mordida works!

Mordida dance

Whale-ista - 5-27-2013 at 08:45 PM

In all my years of living and traveling throughout the Peninsula, I've only been in this situation twice. Once was 30 years ago as a college student in Tijuana. I was stopped for making an illegal lane change, and all of us in the car just paid the "fine" and continued on our way to dinner.

The second time was 10 yrs ago, while driving north into Guerrero Negro after leaving San Ignacio Lagoon. I was pulled over, supposedly for exceeding the speed limit. Of course all the local drivers were going just as fast, but they were not stopped.

It was the end of the season, after Semana santa, and I was giving one of the whale watching guides a ride to San Diego. It was just the two of us, both women, in the truck.

I handed over my drivers license, and the officer told me he would not give it back until I paid the fine for speeding. I explained I only had a few dollars, which was true. After a week at the Lagoon. I barely had enough money for gas to get home.

I also forgot most of my Spanish.

First he threatened to make me go all the way to sta Rosalia to pay the fine. I countered, and offered to follow him to an ATM in Guerrero Negro. He walked back to the cruiser, where his partner, who appeared to be older, gave him some advice.

This went on a few more minutes, and finally he got frustrated With my suddenly nonexistent Spanish, and gave up. he gave me back my license. We proceeded on our way without paying the "fine".

I suspect he was a newbie to this experience, or maybe in the end he didn't have his heart in it. Or maybe he was just uncomfortable trying to put a bite on two women, quien sabe?

I don't know if this strategy would work in every situation, But I was relieved it worked for us that day.

Martyman - 5-29-2013 at 03:32 PM

Look out! All the goody two shoes are riled up!
I thought baja allowed for crazies and rule breakers.

dtbushpilot - 5-29-2013 at 07:55 PM

I've been pulled over several times in my Baja travels. I have to admit that I am usually doing something "ticket worthy", speeding, not signaling my intentions, forgot to put on the new registration sticker etc. My policy is this: If I did it (and I usually did), I negotiate my best deal and ask the officer if he would pay my fine for me at the station as I am in a hurry and would like to get on my way. They will usually do that for you.

If I didn't do it I will demand to go to the station to pay my fine....I've never been to the station, always let go with a warning.

You can take the high road all you want and nothing is going to change or you can work through the system as it is designed to work. This isn't the US, it won't ever be, that's part of why I like it here.

Bajaboy - 5-29-2013 at 08:22 PM

I got no problem with people paying mordida...I won't. But don't turn around b-tch about getting shorted at Pemex, robberies in your barrio, or getting scammed....it is what it is....Mexico.

dtbushpilot - 5-29-2013 at 09:16 PM

I'm with you bajaboy, I won't pay mordida either.

Terry28 - 5-29-2013 at 09:19 PM

No b-tchin in Baja!

Lee - 5-29-2013 at 09:32 PM

No b-tchn about no b-tchn in The Baja.

Every time mordida comes up the NOB post-morality crowd turns it into a holier than thou snipe.

DENNIS - 5-30-2013 at 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot

I'm with you bajaboy, I won't pay mordida either.

I fail to see the difference.

Quote:

]Originally posted by dtbushpilot
My policy is this: If I did it (and I usually did), I negotiate my best deal and ask the officer if he would pay my fine for me at the station as I am in a hurry and would like to get on my way. They will usually do that for you.

chuckie - 5-30-2013 at 07:40 AM

Seems to be one of them contradictions, dont it?

dtbushpilot - 5-30-2013 at 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot

I'm with you bajaboy, I won't pay mordida either.

I fail to see the difference.

Quote:

The difference is when I am guilty I am paying a fine, if I am not guilty I won't pay, that would be mordida...different circumstances, no contradiction at all..

[Edited on 5-30-2013 by dtbushpilot]

DENNIS - 5-30-2013 at 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot

.

The difference is when I am guilty I am paying a fine, if I am not guilty I won't pay, that would be mordida...different circumstances, no contradiction at all..

Fines are meant to go into maintenance of the system; not the cops pocket. Isn't that one of the main issues with mordida?
I see a huge difference.

DaliDali - 5-30-2013 at 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot

I'm with you bajaboy, I won't pay mordida either.

I fail to see the difference.

Quote:

The difference is when I am guilty I am paying a fine, if I am not guilty I won't pay, that would be mordida...different circumstances, no contradiction at all..

[Edited on 5-30-2013 by dtbushpilot]

Personally......I am against paying mordida also IF it is solely a shakedown and I did nothing wrong.

However, if I am in the WRONG....I can see no harm whatsoever with paying the officer my fine......on the spot.
Pay it to the officer or pay it at the station house (or wherever)
A fine is a fine is a fine.......it does not matter one iota where it is paid IMO.

Some will cry "well that is illegal".....so freakin what?....
So is going over the speed limit or running a stop sign or not using your seat belt.
Do these "holier than thou" crowd screech to a halt and run right over to the nearest station house to proclaim your self righteous "fine me please for I have sinned"?......

[Edited on 5-30-2013 by DaliDali]

rts551 - 5-30-2013 at 10:16 AM

and Dali...does that go for Police in the US...or only Mexican police?

DaliDali - 5-30-2013 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
and Dali...does that go for Police in the US...or only Mexican police?

Mexico is Mexico and the USA is the USA....

One thing that blurts out at me right off the bat is.....in the USA, an offender can simply sign a form that he promises to appear in court WITHOUT admitting guilt......or simply pay the fine.
And that simply paying the fine can be done right over the internet.

I do believe that is NOT a choice in Mexico.

However, if you or anyone chooses to take the road more righteous while in MX....please do so.

gallesram - 5-30-2013 at 10:28 AM

I agree with Dali & DTbushpilot; I know when I have done something wrong and if I do, then I have to pay for it. If I haven't and it's just a shakedown, I won't pay and I convey that to the cop pretty quickly.

It's not up to us Americans to change the way the system works in Mexico. We have that right up here, but not down there.

I know there has been talk about the "Sindicatura" sticker and whether it's effective. Seems to have worked for me; I put one on my car a few years back and haven't been pulled over once since. The ultimate test is Acapulco and it seems to have worked there too.

DENNIS - 5-30-2013 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
However, if I am in the WRONG....I can see no harm whatsoever with paying the officer my fine......on the spot.

Good. Pay him whatever you wish, but don't try to take the situation out of the mordida category. It's still mordida. To call it anything else is self-righteous to a fault.

DaliDali - 5-30-2013 at 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali
However, if I am in the WRONG....I can see no harm whatsoever with paying the officer my fine......on the spot.

Good. Pay him whatever you wish, but don't try to take the situation out of the mordida category. It's still mordida. To call it anything else is self-righteous to a fault.

Our interpretations of mordida must be different.
To me, mordida is an offering to an officer or whomever, for whatever, to extract yourself from a bad situation.....such as offering a "bribe" to let you go on your way, even though you might have done NOTHING wrong.
Or it could be a way to simply "facilitate" getting that building permit.

What many are saying is, me included, is that if your in the wrong and you know it.....paying your fine on the spot is certainly something to consider.

Personally, I would much rather see the 200 pesos go to the officer on the street than I would to some local slush fund.
It would be my guess the fine amount would not go to the new radio fund, new tires for the cruiser or new bullets for the officers.

The bottom line is, each to their own and neither option is going to make a dent in how officers conduct their personal way of enforcing the law.
It is what it is in MX, and that is often the reason people choose this way of life here.

[Edited on 5-30-2013 by DaliDali]

chuckie - 5-30-2013 at 11:09 AM

You can try to call it a fine, if you wish, if it makes you feel better...Its not a fine, its a bribe.....

DENNIS - 5-30-2013 at 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

What many are saying is, me included, is that if your in the wrong and you know it.....paying your fine on the spot is certainly something to consider.

And I agree. I said that from the beginning, but, if mordida, from a moral standpoint, is wrong, then it's wrong for everybody who initiates the transaction and just because we get caught blowing a stop sign doesn't make it right.
It's the transaction, not the traffic offense, that perpetuates the procedure, and greed will step in and morph the procedure to what we cry about today.

DaliDali - 5-30-2013 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
You can try to call it a fine if you wish, if it makes you feel better...Its not a fine, its a bribe.....

I would question how can it be a "bribe" or a form of "mordida" when you ACTUALLY owe this fine?....
If you offer the officer 200p or whatever amount.....and he accepts and sets you on you way......all is good by me.

Your guilty as charged......pay the officer or pay at the station.
Now you choose which one would be more expedient to the traveler?

Go back to a station house or keep plugging along in your journey....it's all up to you and those who choose to continue on, should not be disparaged for making a choice of how to handle a traffic offense just because a few find it reprehensible to offer "pay on the spot" and deem those who do.......unworthy of morals or the sense of right and wrong.

This is the way it works here.....like it or not and no amount of high heeled righteousness will make it change.

I really don't care if the officer donates that fine to the "system" or not..It is not my business, nor do I want it to be my business, what eventually happens to the fine money.
If it goes to some tacos that night for his family great.....if not....it is beyond my concern level.

I know I was guilty and I paid the fine.....it's done and I am on my way.

chuckie - 5-30-2013 at 01:05 PM

Hogwash! Who made the decision you were guilty? You? If so you knowingly broke a law, and bribed your way out of whatever the "real" penalty might have been. You hopefully are proud of that? Its NOT "Fine money" its a bribe, pure and simple.And you are committing a criminal offense by doing so..I could care less if you want to bribe a police officer or anyone else but PLEASE dont try to convince yourself its its legal or moral....Belly up to it .. I BRIBED A POLICE OFFICER

DENNIS - 5-30-2013 at 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

I would question how can it be a "bribe" or a form of "mordida" when you ACTUALLY owe this fine?....
If you offer the officer 200p or whatever amount.....and he accepts and sets you on you way......all is good by me.

Your guilty as charged......pay the officer or pay at the station.

You don't see a problem with the consolidation of cop/judge/jury/cashier into one person?

dtbushpilot - 5-30-2013 at 01:27 PM

I always ask them to pay my fine for me at the station, I assume that they do that. I have paid traffic tickets on the spot in the US, I assume that that money gets turned in at the station also. In each case I broke the law, got caught, plead guilty and paid a fine. Where the money ends up is not my concern, my karma is clear and I'm back on my way....probably still speeding....

DENNIS - 5-30-2013 at 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
I always ask them to pay my fine for me at the station, I assume that they do that.

You do not. :lol:

chuckie - 5-30-2013 at 01:33 PM

More hogwash....I cant believe these people......

dtbushpilot - 5-30-2013 at 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
I always ask them to pay my fine for me at the station, I assume that they do that.

You do not. :lol:

Well, Ok, you got me there :lol:

DaliDali - 5-30-2013 at 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

You don't see a problem with the consolidation of cop/judge/jury/cashier into one person?

Not at all.......after all......it's the "way it works" here and you know it

You may not like it, I don't either, but unless you want to make it a one man crusade to make changes......just deal with it and be on your way.

Maybe Chuckie will join you on your crusade?

DaliDali - 5-30-2013 at 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
More hogwash....I cant believe these people......

I heard somewhere before Chuckie....

"Let those without sin cast the first stone"

DENNIS - 5-30-2013 at 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

Not at all.......after all......it's the "way it works" here and you know it

You may not like it, I don't either, but unless you want to make it a one man crusade to make changes......just deal with it and be on your way.

Auschwitz mentality. You have formed an alliance with fear itself and embraced evil. Winston Smith is not happy about your display of submission. :cool:

chuckie - 5-30-2013 at 03:06 PM

Dennis, they are dilettantes, believing that they are above the law here in Mexico, and unwilling to admit they are criminals...After all, What would Mom say....

dtbushpilot - 5-30-2013 at 03:34 PM

Well chuckie, you've got me pegged. Got to run, it's time to have a small child wash my feet.... :lol:

DENNIS - 5-30-2013 at 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
Dennis, they are dilettantes, believing that they are above the law here in Mexico, and unwilling to admit they are criminals...After all, What would Mom say....

"Dilettantes?" Yipes. I had to look that one up, Chuckie. I always thought a dilettante was a cute seventeen year old with a very rich father who wanted to show her off at the Puberty Rites Ball.
Thanks for the warning. :biggrin:

chuckie - 5-30-2013 at 03:52 PM

That too...

freediverbrian - 6-1-2013 at 07:41 PM

I paid the Fine Once I will never do it again. I ask to go to the station and pay there , the police let me go on my way if the police don't have the time to take you to the station it is not a fine it is a bribe